2024 NFL Draft

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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:50 pm I found the following on the PurplePain forums.

Perhaps the most respected analyst of college players entering the draft is Greg Cosell. He’s honest, objective and unbiased. He isn’t beholding to any giant sports company.

Here is his ranking of the top 6 QBs in the draft with an additional comment on JJ McCarthy:


From @mikeklis this morning highlighting the QB rankings of @gregcosell and @jimmiller_NFL is a little different than we’ve seen.

1. Jayden Daniels
2. Drake Maye
3. Caleb Williams
4. Michael Penix Jr
5. Bo Nix
6. JJ McCarthy

Of note, on JJ McCarthy they had this to say…

“I don’t think McCarthy’s tape is very good,’’ Cosell said. “I’ve talked to a lot of people about McCarthy. I don’t know where all this momentum is coming from because I’ve not talked to anyone – I’m talking about people in the league – who see McCarthy that way.’’


“Remember when Colin Kaepernick was with Harbaugh out in San Francisco?’’ Miller said. “Everything was a fastball. He could never make touch throws. He could never go up and down, over the linebacker because everything was a three-quarter (delivery) fastball. (McCarthy’s) a lot like that and he misses a lot of throws over the middle where he’s behind the receiver.”
I've been coming around on McCarthy and thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen if we trade up to 4 using picks 11 and 23 with nothing else. If this Cosell guy knows his stuff that takes me out of wanting to trade up under any circumstances.
I mean, McCarthy's big selling points are his on-field leadership qualities, which are very good, the fact he's won wherever he's been so far, which is high school and college, but still, the body of results so far has been very good, and his youth, which isn't really an asset per se, but more a reason for optimism that he still can develop and improve more than an "older" rookie might.

But Cosell's observations of his on-field play are very valid. He wasn't asked to do very much at Michigan, certainly not as much proportionately as, say Penix was asked to do at Washington. He doesn't possess any physical traits that distinguish him as a QB, either. He's not particularly tall, big, fast, or has a rocket arm or even great accuracy as a passer, at least not that he's consistently demonstrated to this point in his young career.

So with McCarthy, you've got to hope that he develops into something more than his parts. Great QBs have played the game who didn't have great physical abilities, but in every case where that happened they possessed exceptional ability to read the field pre and post snap and generally had great timing and accuracy.

McCarthy isn't really limited athletically. I think he's more athletic than, say, Tom Brady or Brad Johnson, but he's yet to show he can work a passing game like either of those two, or even like a Kirk Cousins for that matter. I'd go further to say if McCarthy fails to develop we're looking at the next Tim Tebow or Christian Ponder. Both of those guys were great guys, good leaders, and, in the end, just weren't ever going to become good, much less great, pro QBs.

I still think McCarthy's fair value based on what he's shown to this point is first half of the 3rd round. Any team that takes him high 1st is making a massive gamble. I just hope that team isn't the Vikings. If the Vikings sit at 11 and took McCarthy I wouldn't be upset necessarily, but I would still think that is a big gamble that really isn't warranted by what is known.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

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VikingLord wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:42 pm
Alaskan wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:49 pm This GM knowingly walked into a real mess. Cap Hell, some poor contract structure and an aging core (mostly on Defense) to name a few.
How has KAM addressed that though? He extended Cousins again and has made some pretty questionable moves both in the draft and in free agency thus far. By all accounts KOC and he wanted to keep Cousins around longer, too, only they weren't willing to hand him another huge guaranteed deal for 4 years - just 2 more years.

I'm not a fan of what KAM has done thus far. His first draft in particular was awful near the top both in the moves he made (getting relatively little for a big move down in the 1st) and then getting players with those picks that have contributed relatively little to an area of the team that continues to be a big issue.

And then the situation he finds himself in this offseason now with no Cousins and no real plan behind Cousins. That was actually an issue that first reared it's ugly head after Cousins went down with injury last year, but now it is just magnified. KAM never committed to Cousins and maybe Cousins never made that possible, but if a GM is playing "rent-a-QB" on a year-to-year basis it would have made sense to try to find his longer-term replacement in an earlier draft, via trade, or even in free agency before finding himself in the spot he currently finds himself. Unless they thought Jaren Hall could be that guy, which I highly doubt given where they drafted him.

So here KAM sits now. He has positioned himself to make a move if he feels he needs to make a move. The big problem is, he doesn't enjoy a spot in the 1st round that is great. It's not terrible, but with the 1st 3 teams in the draft all needing QBs and all very unlikely to be willing to trade down, he's not going to get his pick of the guys coming out and will instead be forced to make an eventful call on draft day - does he spend a ton of draft capital to move up a few slots to take a swing at one of the other hyped QBs coming out, or does he sit pat and let fate decide what options he has? His decision could take the team in radically different directions in the near future as well as his own career as a GM. Literally everyone doing mocks sees KAM being desperate, sees the move to get the 23rd pick in the 1st round as KAM loading up to make a move up, and JJ McCarthy seems to be the QB du jour on the opposite end of that move.

Is KAM about to teach a master class in deception? Could he know who he's taking and where and is instead going to use one of his first two picks to further bolster the team with a player at a different position he could not otherwise get sitting pat in the 2nd round? Or is KAM going to prove that despite his lofty perch, advanced analytics available to him, and all he has on the line that in many respects he's no better at assessing talent or more gifted anaytically than pretty much everyone who posts on this board? It's a monkey-see, monkey-do league. Players get way over-hyped in every draft, *especially* at the QB position. Does this Vikings leadership team possess any real skill at evaluating top talent, at QB or, for that matter, at any other position?

This draft is going to tell us a lot about the guys driving the longship right now. Are they likely to discover new frontiers to conquer, or more likely to get lost in thick sea fog?
Great post. I'm not a fan of what Kam has done so far as a GM. He seems better suited to be a capologist than a football evaluator. His first draft was atrocious and if you look at the roster most of the good players were acquired by Spielman. This is undoubtedly the make or break off-season for this regime. Hit on a QB and all is well. Horrific trade down moves and the early selection of a safety who has one tackle in 3 years will be somewhat forgiven. A whiff on the QB and, even worse, a costly move up to draft him will result in a clean house 2 years down the road.
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:50 pm I found the following on the PurplePain forums.

Perhaps the most respected analyst of college players entering the draft is Greg Cosell. He’s honest, objective and unbiased. He isn’t beholding to any giant sports company.

Here is his ranking of the top 6 QBs in the draft with an additional comment on JJ McCarthy:


From @mikeklis this morning highlighting the QB rankings of @gregcosell and @jimmiller_NFL is a little different than we’ve seen.

1. Jayden Daniels
2. Drake Maye
3. Caleb Williams
4. Michael Penix Jr
5. Bo Nix
6. JJ McCarthy

Of note, on JJ McCarthy they had this to say…

“I don’t think McCarthy’s tape is very good,’’ Cosell said. “I’ve talked to a lot of people about McCarthy. I don’t know where all this momentum is coming from because I’ve not talked to anyone – I’m talking about people in the league – who see McCarthy that way.’’


“Remember when Colin Kaepernick was with Harbaugh out in San Francisco?’’ Miller said. “Everything was a fastball. He could never make touch throws. He could never go up and down, over the linebacker because everything was a three-quarter (delivery) fastball. (McCarthy’s) a lot like that and he misses a lot of throws over the middle where he’s behind the receiver.”
I've been coming around on McCarthy and thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen if we trade up to 4 using picks 11 and 23 with nothing else. If this Cosell guy knows his stuff that takes me out of wanting to trade up under any circumstances.
This is the first with Caleb falling. I hope the Bears have their board like this. Jayden No 1 will make it an entertaining draft. I can't see too many happy Bear fans.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by BeforeIDie »

Maelstrom88 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:03 pm
VikingLord wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:42 pm

How has KAM addressed that though? He extended Cousins again and has made some pretty questionable moves both in the draft and in free agency thus far. By all accounts KOC and he wanted to keep Cousins around longer, too, only they weren't willing to hand him another huge guaranteed deal for 4 years - just 2 more years.

I'm not a fan of what KAM has done thus far. His first draft in particular was awful near the top both in the moves he made (getting relatively little for a big move down in the 1st) and then getting players with those picks that have contributed relatively little to an area of the team that continues to be a big issue.

And then the situation he finds himself in this offseason now with no Cousins and no real plan behind Cousins. That was actually an issue that first reared it's ugly head after Cousins went down with injury last year, but now it is just magnified. KAM never committed to Cousins and maybe Cousins never made that possible, but if a GM is playing "rent-a-QB" on a year-to-year basis it would have made sense to try to find his longer-term replacement in an earlier draft, via trade, or even in free agency before finding himself in the spot he currently finds himself. Unless they thought Jaren Hall could be that guy, which I highly doubt given where they drafted him.

So here KAM sits now. He has positioned himself to make a move if he feels he needs to make a move. The big problem is, he doesn't enjoy a spot in the 1st round that is great. It's not terrible, but with the 1st 3 teams in the draft all needing QBs and all very unlikely to be willing to trade down, he's not going to get his pick of the guys coming out and will instead be forced to make an eventful call on draft day - does he spend a ton of draft capital to move up a few slots to take a swing at one of the other hyped QBs coming out, or does he sit pat and let fate decide what options he has? His decision could take the team in radically different directions in the near future as well as his own career as a GM. Literally everyone doing mocks sees KAM being desperate, sees the move to get the 23rd pick in the 1st round as KAM loading up to make a move up, and JJ McCarthy seems to be the QB du jour on the opposite end of that move.

Is KAM about to teach a master class in deception? Could he know who he's taking and where and is instead going to use one of his first two picks to further bolster the team with a player at a different position he could not otherwise get sitting pat in the 2nd round? Or is KAM going to prove that despite his lofty perch, advanced analytics available to him, and all he has on the line that in many respects he's no better at assessing talent or more gifted anaytically than pretty much everyone who posts on this board? It's a monkey-see, monkey-do league. Players get way over-hyped in every draft, *especially* at the QB position. Does this Vikings leadership team possess any real skill at evaluating top talent, at QB or, for that matter, at any other position?

This draft is going to tell us a lot about the guys driving the longship right now. Are they likely to discover new frontiers to conquer, or more likely to get lost in thick sea fog?
Great post. I'm not a fan of what Kam has done so far as a GM. He seems better suited to be a capologist than a football evaluator. His first draft was atrocious and if you look at the roster most of the good players were acquired by Spielman. This is undoubtedly the make or break off-season for this regime. Hit on a QB and all is well. Horrific trade down moves and the early selection of a safety who has one tackle in 3 years will be somewhat forgiven. A whiff on the QB and, even worse, a costly move up to draft him will result in a clean house 2 years down the road.
Wow dude, 1 tackle in 3 years. Is that a real stat? AHHH Hamilton Flashback AHHHH PTSD… WOOSAH. Im not a big Kwesi fan, I hope Im wrong. Addison happened to work out above average (should be the case for a 1st rd pick), and falling a$$ backwards into a great linebacker as an UDFA… if Kwesi had ANY feeling the kid would be good he would’ve drafted him. Isn’t John Lynch the GM of the broncos (I don’t really follow other teams)? I know they screwed up on Russ… but can somebody please explain to me why SUITS who have never played the game are deciding who has potential?
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

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BeforeIDie wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:40 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:03 pm

Great post. I'm not a fan of what Kam has done so far as a GM. He seems better suited to be a capologist than a football evaluator. His first draft was atrocious and if you look at the roster most of the good players were acquired by Spielman. This is undoubtedly the make or break off-season for this regime. Hit on a QB and all is well. Horrific trade down moves and the early selection of a safety who has one tackle in 3 years will be somewhat forgiven. A whiff on the QB and, even worse, a costly move up to draft him will result in a clean house 2 years down the road.
Wow dude, 1 tackle in 3 years. Is that a real stat? AHHH Hamilton Flashback AHHHH PTSD… WOOSAH. Im not a big Kwesi fan, I hope Im wrong. Addison happened to work out above average (should be the case for a 1st rd pick), and falling a$$ backwards into a great linebacker as an UDFA… if Kwesi had ANY feeling the kid would be good he would’ve drafted him. Isn’t John Lynch the GM of the broncos (I don’t really follow other teams)? I know they screwed up on Russ… but can somebody please explain to me why SUITS who have never played the game are deciding who has potential?
Lynch is GM of the 49ers. Also yes Lewis Cine has appeared in 9 games for the Vikings and has one tackle so far in his career. He had a bad injury but he wasn't good before that. Kwesi and the scouts have left much to be desired.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by BeforeIDie »

Maelstrom88 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:33 pm
BeforeIDie wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:40 pm

Wow dude, 1 tackle in 3 years. Is that a real stat? AHHH Hamilton Flashback AHHHH PTSD… WOOSAH. Im not a big Kwesi fan, I hope Im wrong. Addison happened to work out above average (should be the case for a 1st rd pick), and falling a$$ backwards into a great linebacker as an UDFA… if Kwesi had ANY feeling the kid would be good he would’ve drafted him. Isn’t John Lynch the GM of the broncos (I don’t really follow other teams)? I know they screwed up on Russ… but can somebody please explain to me why SUITS who have never played the game are deciding who has potential?
Lynch is GM of the 49ers. Also yes Lewis Cine has appeared in 9 games for the Vikings and has one tackle so far in his career. He had a bad injury but he wasn't good before that. Kwesi and the scouts have left much to be desired.

Ahh, thank you… 49ers. So you’re telling me John Lynch pursued potential in drafting Trey Lance, while ALSO obtaining security in Purdy. Almost like Kwesi could’ve signed Kirk to a longer deal 2 years ago, while ALSO pursuing the future QB to sit behind Kirk and learn for a year or 2. Nah, better to ditch our top 7 QB and stink of desperation drafting a rook to sink or swim with Sam Darnold as the VET role model.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

BeforeIDie wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:30 am
Maelstrom88 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:33 pm

Lynch is GM of the 49ers. Also yes Lewis Cine has appeared in 9 games for the Vikings and has one tackle so far in his career. He had a bad injury but he wasn't good before that. Kwesi and the scouts have left much to be desired.

Ahh, thank you… 49ers. So you’re telling me John Lynch pursued potential in drafting Trey Lance, while ALSO obtaining security in Purdy. Almost like Kwesi could’ve signed Kirk to a longer deal 2 years ago, while ALSO pursuing the future QB to sit behind Kirk and learn for a year or 2. Nah, better to ditch our top 7 QB and stink of desperation drafting a rook to sink or swim with Sam Darnold as the VET role model.
I agree with what you posted. Kewsi let the roster get down to a blank at the QB position. At least keep the guy that can play for the entertainment enjoyment for the screen watchers. Kewski is doing a retreat instead of a rebuild. I'm sorry a competitive retreat.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

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VikingLord wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:56 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:50 pm I found the following on the PurplePain forums.

Perhaps the most respected analyst of college players entering the draft is Greg Cosell. He’s honest, objective and unbiased. He isn’t beholding to any giant sports company.

Here is his ranking of the top 6 QBs in the draft with an additional comment on JJ McCarthy:


From @mikeklis this morning highlighting the QB rankings of @gregcosell and @jimmiller_NFL is a little different than we’ve seen.

1. Jayden Daniels
2. Drake Maye
3. Caleb Williams
4. Michael Penix Jr
5. Bo Nix
6. JJ McCarthy

Of note, on JJ McCarthy they had this to say…

“I don’t think McCarthy’s tape is very good,’’ Cosell said. “I’ve talked to a lot of people about McCarthy. I don’t know where all this momentum is coming from because I’ve not talked to anyone – I’m talking about people in the league – who see McCarthy that way.’’


“Remember when Colin Kaepernick was with Harbaugh out in San Francisco?’’ Miller said. “Everything was a fastball. He could never make touch throws. He could never go up and down, over the linebacker because everything was a three-quarter (delivery) fastball. (McCarthy’s) a lot like that and he misses a lot of throws over the middle where he’s behind the receiver.”
I've been coming around on McCarthy and thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen if we trade up to 4 using picks 11 and 23 with nothing else. If this Cosell guy knows his stuff that takes me out of wanting to trade up under any circumstances.
I mean, McCarthy's big selling points are his on-field leadership qualities, which are very good, the fact he's won wherever he's been so far, which is high school and college, but still, the body of results so far has been very good, and his youth, which isn't really an asset per se, but more a reason for optimism that he still can develop and improve more than an "older" rookie might.

But Cosell's observations of his on-field play are very valid. He wasn't asked to do very much at Michigan, certainly not as much proportionately as, say Penix was asked to do at Washington. He doesn't possess any physical traits that distinguish him as a QB, either. He's not particularly tall, big, fast, or has a rocket arm or even great accuracy as a passer, at least not that he's consistently demonstrated to this point in his young career.

So with McCarthy, you've got to hope that he develops into something more than his parts. Great QBs have played the game who didn't have great physical abilities, but in every case where that happened they possessed exceptional ability to read the field pre and post snap and generally had great timing and accuracy.

McCarthy isn't really limited athletically. I think he's more athletic than, say, Tom Brady or Brad Johnson, but he's yet to show he can work a passing game like either of those two, or even like a Kirk Cousins for that matter. I'd go further to say if McCarthy fails to develop we're looking at the next Tim Tebow or Christian Ponder. Both of those guys were great guys, good leaders, and, in the end, just weren't ever going to become good, much less great, pro QBs.

I still think McCarthy's fair value based on what he's shown to this point is first half of the 3rd round. Any team that takes him high 1st is making a massive gamble. I just hope that team isn't the Vikings. If the Vikings sit at 11 and took McCarthy I wouldn't be upset necessarily, but I would still think that is a big gamble that really isn't warranted by what is known.
Do you see a Trevor Lawrence type of prospect in this draft? A pick and play with the potential to be great. Most feel that JJM will need time to refine his skills before he is ready to take the job. That's why I don't understand the fly up the board unless that's only media hype. He's 6-3 which is good but he's not even 200 ILBs when he's not filling up for the combine. That's not good. Could he get to a Jimmy G level of play when he was at the top of his game and healthy? Also do you see a system that he fits best? Is it ours? He did complete 72 % which isn't bad at all.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

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CharVike wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:47 am Do you see a Trevor Lawrence type of prospect in this draft? A pick and play with the potential to be great. Most feel that JJM will need time to refine his skills before he is ready to take the job. That's why I don't understand the fly up the board unless that's only media hype. He's 6-3 which is good but he's not even 200 ILBs when he's not filling up for the combine. That's not good. Could he get to a Jimmy G level of play when he was at the top of his game and healthy? Also do you see a system that he fits best? Is it ours? He did complete 72 % which isn't bad at all.
I don't think any of the QBs in this year's class compare to Lawrence coming out. Williams compares more to Mahomes and people like Daniels because he reminds them of Lamar. Of the remaining group of QBs, only Penix really stands out athletically IMHO, and mostly because he has an exceptional arm. The rest of the guys from Maye to McCarthy to Nix all strike me as potentially good pro QBs but who also don't really stand out in any way. If they win as pros it will be because they wound up in the right system with the right coaches and players around them.

I'd actually rank Penix 2nd behind Williams in this year's draft. If the Vikings hold pat at 11 and get Penix I will be thrilled, especially if they draft the center Jackson Powers-Johnson at 23. If that were to happen I'll have to declare KAM is actually a genius. :smilevike:

It's really hard to say if McCarthy fits KOC's system. If KOC likes him it's most likely because he likes McCarthy's leadership skills and thinks he can develop him. I think McCarthy is a winner and I do think KOC and McCown would be able to develop him into a good QB. My main concern with McCarthy though is his ability to read the field and his timing, which both need a lot of work. If the Vikings do draft him he'll need to sit and learn.

For what its worth, I think Penix is also a good leader. He's got an edge to him and confidence that can't be taught. If the team were down late and needed a throw past the sticks for the 1st down, Penix is going to make that throw every time. He's got a bit of guys like Brett Favre in him - that trust in their arms and that willingness to try to make plays when plays are needed. The thing with guys like that is you want them to take good risks and not get overly aggressive when overly aggressive isn't needed, but the other thing with guys like that is you're usually never out of a game either and they can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

So which type of player will KAM and KOC go for assuming they'd have a choice between those two? I know which one I'd take.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

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BeforeIDie wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:40 pm but can somebody please explain to me why SUITS who have never played the game are deciding who has potential?
It's because analytics can tell you a lot. The best predictor of future performance is past performance, and past performance can be quantified and analyzed to tease out particular strengths and weaknesses. Assuming a GM and head coach know the type of team they want to field, the numbers can be applied to the players to maximize results. It's basically described in the movie Moneyball.

There is an art to it though, as stats alone never tell the whole story and the data inputs for draft picks are all based on college production.

This is kind of what puzzles me about KAM, though. His whole reason for being the GM of the Vikings is supposedly his strong statistical and analysis skills, and yet the results of his drafts thus far have been decidedly mixed to poor. So far KAM is like the well-paid hedge fund owner whose hedge fund has been underperforming the market as witnessed by his competitors in the NFC North all getting better returns than his fund.

This is a critical year. KAM needs to show good return on investment in this draft. He needs to demonstrate he can actually analyze the market fundamentals and find under-valued opportunities, or best-case the team continues to underperform, while worst-case the team tanks.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:30 pm
CharVike wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:47 am Do you see a Trevor Lawrence type of prospect in this draft? A pick and play with the potential to be great. Most feel that JJM will need time to refine his skills before he is ready to take the job. That's why I don't understand the fly up the board unless that's only media hype. He's 6-3 which is good but he's not even 200 ILBs when he's not filling up for the combine. That's not good. Could he get to a Jimmy G level of play when he was at the top of his game and healthy? Also do you see a system that he fits best? Is it ours? He did complete 72 % which isn't bad at all.
I don't think any of the QBs in this year's class compare to Lawrence coming out. Williams compares more to Mahomes and people like Daniels because he reminds them of Lamar. Of the remaining group of QBs, only Penix really stands out athletically IMHO, and mostly because he has an exceptional arm. The rest of the guys from Maye to McCarthy to Nix all strike me as potentially good pro QBs but who also don't really stand out in any way. If they win as pros it will be because they wound up in the right system with the right coaches and players around them.

I'd actually rank Penix 2nd behind Williams in this year's draft. If the Vikings hold pat at 11 and get Penix I will be thrilled, especially if they draft the center Jackson Powers-Johnson at 23. If that were to happen I'll have to declare KAM is actually a genius. :smilevike:

It's really hard to say if McCarthy fits KOC's system. If KOC likes him it's most likely because he likes McCarthy's leadership skills and thinks he can develop him. I think McCarthy is a winner and I do think KOC and McCown would be able to develop him into a good QB. My main concern with McCarthy though is his ability to read the field and his timing, which both need a lot of work. If the Vikings do draft him he'll need to sit and learn.

For what its worth, I think Penix is also a good leader. He's got an edge to him and confidence that can't be taught. If the team were down late and needed a throw past the sticks for the 1st down, Penix is going to make that throw every time. He's got a bit of guys like Brett Favre in him - that trust in their arms and that willingness to try to make plays when plays are needed. The thing with guys like that is you want them to take good risks and not get overly aggressive when overly aggressive isn't needed, but the other thing with guys like that is you're usually never out of a game either and they can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

So which type of player will KAM and KOC go for assuming they'd have a choice between those two? I know which one I'd take.
That's fair and your opinion. They had a private workout with Penix. So they are looking deeper. They're looking deeper at all of them. IMO those private meetings will be the separator and help contribute to the final board stacking.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by StanM »

Alaskan wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:49 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:57 pm
We agree on a lot of things, but we sure don't agree on this. I don't know if I'd even pick Maye if he fell to 11. Using 3 FRPs to get him??????????
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what any of us think they should or should not do. The only thing we as fans can do is trust the Organization has the right pieces in place to make a good decisions that fits their vision. So far, it appears to me the Wilfs are allowing the GM to work his plan's for building excellence. This GM knowingly walked into a real mess. Cap Hell, some poor contract structure and an aging core (mostly on Defense) to name a few. He's got things turned around and headed in a better direction, all while staying competitive to keep the fan base interested and ownership happy in fairly short order. Who knows what they will do at QB going forward, I trust they will make a good decision that fits what they want to do. The coaching staff they have in place now is night and day more prepared and capable of developing a young guy than any staff they have had in some time and the core is set up for a young guy to thrive fairly early.....All while having cap space to sign key FA at positions of need. Its difficult to argue this too much. The NFC north is going to be stacked with good teams, all with franchise QB's and young cores. Should make for some interesting years ahead. I like the direction they are headed and look forward to seeing how it turns out.
I agree 100%. Kwesi and Kevin inherited a mess. Drafted in 2022 days after walking in the door to fit Donatell’s defense with the former regimes scouting staff. I wonder if Cine’s injury is still holding him back. I had the speed and was a vicious hitter in college. It’s hard to know when we don’t see him practice and how he grasps the system. He seems motivated to succeed so whatever is holding him back is a mystery.

The Vikings are going to do what they’re going to do and it’s very likely that they don’t take any of these comments seriously. Our only obligation and the only thing we control is whether to be fans or not.
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VikingsVictorious
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:25 pm
VikingLord wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:30 pm

I don't think any of the QBs in this year's class compare to Lawrence coming out. Williams compares more to Mahomes and people like Daniels because he reminds them of Lamar. Of the remaining group of QBs, only Penix really stands out athletically IMHO, and mostly because he has an exceptional arm. The rest of the guys from Maye to McCarthy to Nix all strike me as potentially good pro QBs but who also don't really stand out in any way. If they win as pros it will be because they wound up in the right system with the right coaches and players around them.

I'd actually rank Penix 2nd behind Williams in this year's draft. If the Vikings hold pat at 11 and get Penix I will be thrilled, especially if they draft the center Jackson Powers-Johnson at 23. If that were to happen I'll have to declare KAM is actually a genius. :smilevike:

It's really hard to say if McCarthy fits KOC's system. If KOC likes him it's most likely because he likes McCarthy's leadership skills and thinks he can develop him. I think McCarthy is a winner and I do think KOC and McCown would be able to develop him into a good QB. My main concern with McCarthy though is his ability to read the field and his timing, which both need a lot of work. If the Vikings do draft him he'll need to sit and learn.

For what its worth, I think Penix is also a good leader. He's got an edge to him and confidence that can't be taught. If the team were down late and needed a throw past the sticks for the 1st down, Penix is going to make that throw every time. He's got a bit of guys like Brett Favre in him - that trust in their arms and that willingness to try to make plays when plays are needed. The thing with guys like that is you want them to take good risks and not get overly aggressive when overly aggressive isn't needed, but the other thing with guys like that is you're usually never out of a game either and they can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

So which type of player will KAM and KOC go for assuming they'd have a choice between those two? I know which one I'd take.
That's fair and your opinion. They had a private workout with Penix. So they are looking deeper. They're looking deeper at all of them. IMO those private meetings will be the separator and help contribute to the final board stacking.
When did we go private with Penix? Still nothing with Nix?
I googled it.
The Vikings' deep-dive research on the 2024 NFL Draft's quarterback class has been in full swing for weeks. They met with all of the potential first-round quarterback prospects at the combine, they've had representatives — including QB coach Josh McCown — at these schools' pro days, and most importantly, they've been traveling to campus sites to put the players through private workouts that are specialized to their offense. In those workouts, which are led by Kevin O'Connell and Kwesi Adofo-Mensah, O'Connell can see how well a quarterback learns a concept from the Vikings' offense and immediately translates it to the practice field.

The Vikings recently traveled to Seattle to put Michael Penix Jr. through a private workout following Washington's pro day, according to Bleacher Report's Jordan Schultz. The Heisman finalist is projected to be a mid-to-late first-round pick in a few weeks.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by BeforeIDie »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:42 pm
BeforeIDie wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:40 pm but can somebody please explain to me why SUITS who have never played the game are deciding who has potential?
It's because analytics can tell you a lot. The best predictor of future performance is past performance, and past performance can be quantified and analyzed to tease out particular strengths and weaknesses. Assuming a GM and head coach know the type of team they want to field, the numbers can be applied to the players to maximize results. It's basically described in the movie Moneyball.

There is an art to it though, as stats alone never tell the whole story and the data inputs for draft picks are all based on college production.

This is kind of what puzzles me about KAM, though. His whole reason for being the GM of the Vikings is supposedly his strong statistical and analysis skills, and yet the results of his drafts thus far have been decidedly mixed to poor. So far KAM is like the well-paid hedge fund owner whose hedge fund has been underperforming the market as witnessed by his competitors in the NFC North all getting better returns than his fund.

This is a critical year. KAM needs to show good return on investment in this draft. He needs to demonstrate he can actually analyze the market fundamentals and find under-valued opportunities, or best-case the team continues to underperform, while worst-case the team tanks.
I get it that numbers contribute. But why can’t we have a number’s cruncher as some kind of (assistant) doing statistical analysis in the background and meeting with KOC for a half hour meeting everyday. Like how Brezinski is the cap guy. I guess I just don’t understand the weight of the position. Can a semi intelligent retired football player not Google statistics and measurables and then apply that to his football mind.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by BeforeIDie »

I’ve been hooked on the generated mock drafts the past few days where you get to play GM. I just scored…

Odunze (I feel he’ll be the best WR in the draft depending on his QB)

Coop DeJean

Penix

Sweat

Fiske

But… it took trading all our picks this year, AND next year.

Thoughts?