Saints at Vikings

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CharVike
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:00 am Couple of quick observations:

- Dobbs played well overall, especially in the first half. In the 2nd half either the Vikings got more conservative on offense and/or the Saints made some adjustments that made things more challenging for Dobbs as he wasn't as effective. The Saints pass rush in the 2nd half definitely seemed more disciplined and that made it harder for Dobbs to use his feet.

- Vikings running game sans Dobbs continues to underwhelm. They are basically good for 1-2 yards on most first downs when they run, which isn't going to get the job done come playoff time. Not sure if that is a runner issue or a blocker issue.

- Last comment on the offense is where are the deep attempts? Maybe KOC's scheme doesn't go deep often, but the Vikings rarely seem to test the deep area of the field. Maybe they throttled back on that due to the receiver injuries? The intermediate attempts are there and the ball gets spread around effectively, but it would be nice to see them try for the big play at least a few times a game.

- Defense played well overall. Both of the 2nd half Saints TDs were contested and probably shouldn't have been thrown. They were great plays by the receiver to come down with both balls. The 2nd TD where Winston threw across the field was a particularly unlikely result and probably deserved to go the other way for 6, much less become 6 points for the Saints.

- Winston made me appreciate how fortunate the Vikings are to have Dobbs as a backup at QB. He threw some nice passes but was way off on others.

- Nice to see the defense finally keep Hill from being a factor. I remember so many games against the Saints were Hill had a big play impact. Not this time. Finally.

- The Vikings defense is surprisingly tough in certain situations. As noted earlier, 2 Saints TDs were well covered and probably shouldn't have ended up being 6 points. The secondary makes some really nice plays now. Yes, that zone still leaves receivers too wide open, but they are making up for it with good coverage and fundamentals. The front seven is playing well. They're getting pressure on the QB and being disruptive. It's not a great defense (yet), but it's a heck of an improvement over what we saw last year and a big reason why the Vikings have won 5 in a row.

Schedule gets easier from here on out. The Vikings have a real chance to make a push for the playoffs, especially getting JJ back soon. This is shaping up to be a very fun season.
The best thing you posted was "shaping up to be a very fun season." That's all it's about anyway. Of course everyone of us wants a SB victory. Even last year was a fun season. The playoff loss was bad but at least we made a big change to fix that with Flores. Getting this Risner was a great move. You can tell the guy is into the game. When Hock caught a ball down by the Saints 20 yard line and people came in pushing him forward was great. Once down Risner in the back of the heap kicked his leg up basically saying we kicked their a$$es on that play. That's fun for me to see. Risner is a tough player. He's not an all pro but that's ok. He's not a stiff either and will fight in the trenches. We will get beat again and every week will be a big challenge just for a win. I'm happy with our coaching. Our players are focused and play hard. Seems like every guy gets involved and there's nothing wrong with that. Nailor caught one and the first guy slipped off him and he got some yardage. Good to see.
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VikingsVictorious
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:29 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:37 pm
He actually did. He was dynamic the first half. Not good the 2nd half, but all in all he gave us adequate starting NFL QB performance. Pretty amazing we got him after losing Cousins for the season and honestly me expecting nothing, but doom and gloom. :govikes:
How he played in the first half was essentially how he played last week after his understandable rough start.

But hey, you only need stats to tell how a player plays, so what the hell do I know?
Kapp 30 pass attempts for 150 yards isn't good. It never will be. You can't just throw out his understandable rough start. That was part of how he played. He got some nice rushing yards though. I probably didn't factor that in enough.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:43 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 2:30 pm
VL I very much appreciate you continuing to take one for the team every week. :welcome :govikes:
If they keep winning I'm going to have to pick them eventually... :smilevike:
NO!!! You have to pick us to lose every game and give up 30 or more points every game.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by Thaumaturgist »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:50 pm
VikingLord wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:43 am

If they keep winning I'm going to have to pick them eventually... :smilevike:
NO!!! You have to pick us to lose every game and give up 30 or more points every game.
Please oh great VikingLord.. It's all in your capable fingers. :wink:
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by VikingLord »

Thaumaturgist wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:18 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:50 pm

NO!!! You have to pick us to lose every game and give up 30 or more points every game.
Please oh great VikingLord.. It's all in your capable fingers. :wink:
I can't take the pressure! I've always suspected my watching them/not watching them or optimism/pessimism directly affected whether they won or lost but it seems now the universe is giving me my answer and I am not sure how I feel about that, especially when I know in good conscience I cannot pick against them if I really feel they are going to win.

However, despite their recent run of success I still don't feel like they are going to win, so all should remain good in the world of the Vikings for the foreseeable future.

:banana: :ripple: :govikes: :smilevike:
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:49 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:29 pm
How he played in the first half was essentially how he played last week after his understandable rough start.

But hey, you only need stats to tell how a player plays, so what the hell do I know?
Kapp 30 pass attempts for 150 yards isn't good. It never will be. You can't just throw out his understandable rough start. That was part of how he played. He got some nice rushing yards though. I probably didn't factor that in enough.
I’m done with this conversation. YOU ARE WRONG. He was the NFC Offensive Player of the Week, for God’s sake. And you didn’t watch a single down! I provided an excellent video breakdown by a guy who knows what he’s talking about, who outlines exactly WHY Dobbs played so well, and you refuse to watch that. Therefore you have no credibility on this issue. None.

Again, I’m done.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by TheCoolerOne »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:32 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:49 pm

Kapp 30 pass attempts for 150 yards isn't good. It never will be. You can't just throw out his understandable rough start. That was part of how he played. He got some nice rushing yards though. I probably didn't factor that in enough.
I’m done with this conversation. YOU ARE WRONG. He was the NFC Offensive Player of the Week, for God’s sake. And you didn’t watch a single down! I provided an excellent video breakdown by a guy who knows what he’s talking about, who outlines exactly WHY Dobbs played so well, and you refuse to watch that. Therefore you have no credibility on this issue. None.

Again, I’m done.
Dang it.

I was about strap up like Kevin Kline in Silverado and join your cause.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

TheCoolerOne wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:43 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:32 pm
I’m done with this conversation. YOU ARE WRONG. He was the NFC Offensive Player of the Week, for God’s sake. And you didn’t watch a single down! I provided an excellent video breakdown by a guy who knows what he’s talking about, who outlines exactly WHY Dobbs played so well, and you refuse to watch that. Therefore you have no credibility on this issue. None.

Again, I’m done.
Dang it.

I was about strap up like Kevin Kline in Silverado and join your cause.
Please feel free.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by TheCoolerOne »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:44 pm
TheCoolerOne wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:43 pm

Dang it.

I was about strap up like Kevin Kline in Silverado and join your cause.
Please feel free.
It’s just one of those Stephen A. Smith-type of positions that are baseless and (totally unconvincingly) justified by saying it over and over, usually louder.

Sometimes when I can’t watch the game, I’ll monitor the little ESPN gamecast on my phone. Because all I can see are little arrows going one way or the other, all I can do is infer what happened. When I saw the 60 yard TD before half against the 9ers, I though “wow, Cousins must have hit a great deep shot.”

Did I just go on believing that, not checking the highlights? That’s essentially what a box score review is.

By that logic, every pick is a bad QB play, any DE with no sacks played a terrible game, any CB with no interception got roasted.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious »

TheCoolerOne wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:04 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:44 pm
Please feel free.
It’s just one of those Stephen A. Smith-type of positions that are baseless and (totally unconvincingly) justified by saying it over and over, usually louder.

Sometimes when I can’t watch the game, I’ll monitor the little ESPN gamecast on my phone. Because all I can see are little arrows going one way or the other, all I can do is infer what happened. When I saw the 60 yard TD before half against the 9ers, I though “wow, Cousins must have hit a great deep shot.”

Did I just go on believing that, not checking the highlights? That’s essentially what a box score review is.

By that logic, every pick is a bad QB play, any DE with no sacks played a terrible game, any CB with no interception got roasted.
Any one play taken out of context could be misconstrued. A perfect pass to a WR that he pops up into the air for a pick 6 is not a bad play by the QB. However, with a decent sample size those things equal out. 30 passes in the game for 150 yards to me is a decent sample size.
Last edited by VikingsVictorious on Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by TheCoolerOne »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:28 pm
TheCoolerOne wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:04 pm

It’s just one of those Stephen A. Smith-type of positions that are baseless and (totally unconvincingly) justified by saying it over and over, usually louder.

Sometimes when I can’t watch the game, I’ll monitor the little ESPN gamecast on my phone. Because all I can see are little arrows going one way or the other, all I can do is infer what happened. When I saw the 60 yard TD before half against the 9ers, I though “wow, Cousins must have hit a great deep shot.”

Did I just go on believing that, not checking the highlights? That’s essentially what a box score review is.

By that logic, every pick is a bad QB play, any DE with no sacks played a terrible game, any CB with no interception got roasted.
Any one play taken out of context could be misconstrued. A perfect pass to a WR that he pops up into the air for a pick 6 is not a bad play by the QB. However, with a decent sample size those things equal out. 30 passes in the game for 150 yards to me is a decent sample size.
That’s the thing though—you don’t know any of the context when you don’t watch the game. You’ve acknowledged you didn’t, then provide me a lesson on how the box score doesn’t tell the full story?
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious »

TheCoolerOne wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:31 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:28 pm
Any one play taken out of context could be misconstrued. A perfect pass to a WR that he pops up into the air for a pick 6 is not a bad play by the QB. However, with a decent sample size those things equal out. 30 passes in the game for 150 yards to me is a decent sample size.
That’s the thing though—you don’t know any of the context when you don’t watch the game. You’ve acknowledged you didn’t, then provide me a lesson on how the box score doesn’t tell the full story?
I get that if I had watched Dobbs play the Falcons game I would be more qualified to speak on his performance. However, my not having watched the game IMO doesn't 100% invalidate anything I have to say about his performance. I think Kapp is construing my saying he didn't play well to mean I'm saying he played poorly. I by no means am saying he played poorly. It just doesn't seem like he played well. I could be wrong. The box score certainly doesn't tell the whole story. It tells part of the story.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by cogitator »

I don't want to sound blasphemous, but I'm sure we've all noticed the Vikings have been on a winning streak since Jefferson got hurt. I'm starting to wonder if he would have more value being traded for a few draft picks than he does being re-signed to a gargantuan contract. I'm not suggesting the Vikings are better without him, but maybe the difference with him isn't great enough to warrant whatever size contract he'll get. He will be looking to be the highest paid receiver in the league no doubt.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:49 pm
TheCoolerOne wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:31 pm

That’s the thing though—you don’t know any of the context when you don’t watch the game. You’ve acknowledged you didn’t, then provide me a lesson on how the box score doesn’t tell the full story?
I get that if I had watched Dobbs play the Falcons game I would be more qualified to speak on his performance. However, my not having watched the game IMO doesn't 100% invalidate anything I have to say about his performance. I think Kapp is construing my saying he didn't play well to mean I'm saying he played poorly. I by no means am saying he played poorly. It just doesn't seem like he played well. I could be wrong. The box score certainly doesn't tell the whole story. It tells part of the story.
Watch. The. Video.

I guarantee, you will be glad you did.
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Re: Saints at Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious »

cogitator wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:47 pm I don't want to sound blasphemous, but I'm sure we've all noticed the Vikings have been on a winning streak since Jefferson got hurt. I'm starting to wonder if he would have more value being traded for a few draft picks than he does being re-signed to a gargantuan contract. I'm not suggesting the Vikings are better without him, but maybe the difference with him isn't great enough to warrant whatever size contract he'll get. He will be looking to be the highest paid receiver in the league no doubt.
It's certainly worth considering.