Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

[CharVike]

It’s extremely hard for me to see any positives about the Vikings’ defense last year.

— They were terrible against the run, giving up 138 YPG.
— They had two games — TWO — where they didn’t give up points in the last two minutes of the 1st half or game.
— In addition to all the points given up in the last two minutes, they gave up even more points if you expand it to four minutes, including 3 additional TDs with between 2 and 3 minutes to play.
— They were 27th in yards per play allowed.
— 30th in first downs allowed.
— 23rd in YAC allowed.
— 22nd in percentage of drives allowed ending in a score.

And the eye test … we looked lost at times.

I know, these aren’t “advanced stats.” But if anybody watched this team last year and thought the defense was anything other than terrible, then I would suggest wearing clear glasses instead of purple.

Change was desperately needed. Let’s hope the changes produce results.

Scoring is not an advanced stat, it is the thing that wins football games, and from a scoring standpoint, the Vikings were as good as the Packers at stopping the other team from scoring. They just had to defend 22 more drive (about TWO GAMES worth) because the offense wasn't very good at picking up 1st downs.

That means if the Vikings had had an offense as good at maintaining drives as the Packers, they would have been a top 14 PPG scoring defense like the Packers. Probably better since having to defend so many extra drives tends to lead to defenses getting worn down and giving up a lot of points at the end of games, or halves.

That isn't advanced stats, that is simple math.

The D has got to improve, and it will with the talent added, but it does not have as far to go as people like to pretend.

Too many drives made the D tired. What happened week 1 when they gave up 27 points? The QB avg 9 yards an attempt. RB gained 127. They were tired week 2 also since they gave up 34 points and allowed over 10 yards an attempt. 400 yards through the air. They were tired from the start.

[JJBreaksRecords]

Scoring is not an advanced stat, it is the thing that wins football games, and from a scoring standpoint, the Vikings were as good as the Packers at stopping the other team from scoring. They just had to defend 22 more drive (about TWO GAMES worth) because the offense wasn't very good at picking up 1st downs.

That means if the Vikings had had an offense as good at maintaining drives as the Packers, they would have been a top 14 PPG scoring defense like the Packers. Probably better since having to defend so many extra drives tends to lead to defenses getting worn down and giving up a lot of points at the end of games, or halves.

That isn't advanced stats, that is simple math.

The D has got to improve, and it will with the talent added, but it does not have as far to go as people like to pretend.

Too many drives made the D tired. What happened week 1 when they gave up 27 points? The QB avg 9 yards an attempt. RB gained 127. They were tired week 2 also since they gave up 34 points and allowed over 10 yards an attempt. 400 yards through the air. They were tired from the start.

Also need more 3rd down conversions. Keep the D fresh.

[CharVike]

Too many drives made the D tired. What happened week 1 when they gave up 27 points? The QB avg 9 yards an attempt. RB gained 127. They were tired week 2 also since they gave up 34 points and allowed over 10 yards an attempt. 400 yards through the air. They were tired from the start.

Also need more 3rd down conversions. Keep the D fresh.

Can't hurt.

[StpViking]

I think the start of the game will be pretty ugly for both teams since none of the starters played in any preseason games. As for the Vikings, after the scripted plays are done, I expect a lot of guys to be confused as to what routes are suppose to be run, who to block and so forth.

I am not a fan of the idea of resting starters when you have a new coaching staff, new play book and new play terminology. Not to mention new 3-4 from a tradition 4-3 defense.

Vikings 10
Packers 24

[VikingLord]

I think the start of the game will be pretty ugly for both teams since none of the starters played in any preseason games. As for the Vikings, after the scripted plays are done, I expect a lot of guys to be confused as to what routes are suppose to be run, who to block and so forth.

I am not a fan of the idea of resting starters when you have a new coaching staff, new play book and new play terminology. Not to mention new 3-4 from a tradition 4-3 defense.

Vikings 10
Packers 24

I had the same thoughts, but TexasVike had a great take on why KOC took the approach he did and how a lot of teams are taking the same approach, including the Rams (who, granted, didn't look great in the opener). If TexasVike reads this maybe he can point you to his post on this as I think it's worth reading if you didn't see it.

You still might not buy it even after reading what he wrote, but there is good reason to believe the Vikings should be ready to play at a high level right out of the gate.

[J. Kapp 11]

Scoring is not an advanced stat, it is the thing that wins football games, and from a scoring standpoint, the Vikings were as good as the Packers at stopping the other team from scoring. They just had to defend 22 more drive (about TWO GAMES worth) because the offense wasn't very good at picking up 1st downs.

That means if the Vikings had had an offense as good at maintaining drives as the Packers, they would have been a top 14 PPG scoring defense like the Packers. Probably better since having to defend so many extra drives tends to lead to defenses getting worn down and giving up a lot of points at the end of games, or halves.

That isn't advanced stats, that is simple math.

The D has got to improve, and it will with the talent added, but it does not have as far to go as people like to pretend.

Maybe much speculation.

How much discontent between Zimmer and players last year. Did that effect there play in any way. Was Zimmer even himself as a coach. Zimmer knew his job was on the line. It was win or he loses his job. Sounds like it showed with some players speaking up....Unhappy coach, unhappy players. Did it effect the team. I bet it did.

Good riddance Zimmer..

With what I hear today, sounds like team attitude is much better.

Time will tell if it makes any difference.

I’m trying to decide whether to start a thread about this very topic.

Some of you may have heard about the long 2-part article by Tyler Dunne in Go Long. It goes into great detail about the atmosphere in the building and on the field, both under Zimmer and under O’Connell. Dunne is one of the best journalists on the planet, and he has tons of quotes about how things were and how they are now. One of his on-the-record sources is none other than Terence Newman, someone who has long been known to be an advocate of Zimmer. His comments are not flattering, to the point of being shocking. It also goes into great detail about what O’Connell is trying to do, and how the players are talking about it. The articles are getting a lot of attention nationally, as well they should. They’re that good … and like catnip for a Vikings junkie like me.

I know some will say that such a conversation is beating a dead horse, and maybe it is. But that’s actually what makes the piece so brilliant. It juxtaposes the environment in the last 2-3 years under Zimmer against the environment O’Connell is trying to establish, fully acknowledging that O’Connell‘s ethic is easy when you haven’t played a game.

More importantly, it asks a question … will a more positive environment result in a better product on the field? It’s especially interesting given that so many players were brought back. The articles draw no conclusions, instead letting the reader decide.

It’s a GREAT read. Unfortunately, it’s behind a paywall. That makes it doubly hard to start a thread about it.

[Foreman44]

Maybe much speculation.

How much discontent between Zimmer and players last year. Did that effect there play in any way. Was Zimmer even himself as a coach. Zimmer knew his job was on the line. It was win or he loses his job. Sounds like it showed with some players speaking up....Unhappy coach, unhappy players. Did it effect the team. I bet it did.

Good riddance Zimmer..

With what I hear today, sounds like team attitude is much better.

Time will tell if it makes any difference.

I’m trying to decide whether to start a thread about this very topic.

Some of you may have heard about the long 2-part article by Tyler Dunne in Go Long. It goes into great detail about the atmosphere in the building and on the field, both under Zimmer and under O’Connell. Dunne is one of the best journalists on the planet, and he has tons of quotes about how things were and how they are now. One of his on-the-record sources is none other than Terence Newman, someone who has long been known to be an advocate of Zimmer. His comments are not flattering, to the point of being shocking. It also goes into great detail about what O’Connell is trying to do, and how the players are talking about it. The articles are getting a lot of attention nationally, as well they should. They’re that good … and like catnip for a Vikings junkie like me.

I know some will say that such a conversation is beating a dead horse, and maybe it is. But that’s actually what makes the piece so brilliant. It juxtaposes the environment in the last 2-3 years under Zimmer against the environment O’Connell is trying to establish, fully acknowledging that O’Connell‘s ethic is easy when you haven’t played a game.

More importantly, it asks a question … will a more positive environment result in a better product on the field? It’s especially interesting given that so many players were brought back. The articles draw no conclusions, instead letting the reader decide.

It’s a GREAT read. Unfortunately, it’s behind a paywall. That makes it doubly hard to start a thread about it.

Maybe what I have said below makes no sense. Just my jumbo jumbo


Sounds interesting. Zimmer was IMO, a desperate man fighting for his job...I-picture a man driving the players. On edge. A couple players did voice there opinion. My guess it was worse than what we heard. Not a happy locker room...

I can see O’Connell having to build that morale back up. Adding onto his responsibilities.

It reminds me of getting orders to a navy ship in Mobile ala. 1980 to 82.it was also my first ship 1973 to 1976.. oh what a difference. The commanding officer was a tyrant. Morale in the pits. Kind of like the movie Mr Roberts with James Cagney. It was a very long year until he was relieved. Ironically the commanding officer that relieved him was Captain Roberts.

He was the right man for the job building the morale up. We actually became friends. Played golf with him a couple times. Stayed at his house in Landrum SC... He was quite the character in golf.

Point being that year on that ship before Capt Roberts wasn’t a fun year. Sailors feared there careers. Officers scattered like #### roaches when the lights came on

Maybe it wasn’t that bad with the Vikings.as what I saw on the ship. But was Zimmer getting there best last yr.

The only thing that throws me off is our offense moved the ball. Our defense didn’t click. Was that Zimmer being a defensive coach.

[StumpHunter]

Scoring is not an advanced stat, it is the thing that wins football games, and from a scoring standpoint, the Vikings were as good as the Packers at stopping the other team from scoring. They just had to defend 22 more drive (about TWO GAMES worth) because the offense wasn't very good at picking up 1st downs.

That means if the Vikings had had an offense as good at maintaining drives as the Packers, they would have been a top 14 PPG scoring defense like the Packers. Probably better since having to defend so many extra drives tends to lead to defenses getting worn down and giving up a lot of points at the end of games, or halves.

That isn't advanced stats, that is simple math.

The D has got to improve, and it will with the talent added, but it does not have as far to go as people like to pretend.

Too many drives made the D tired. What happened week 1 when they gave up 27 points? The QB avg 9 yards an attempt. RB gained 127. They were tired week 2 also since they gave up 34 points and allowed over 10 yards an attempt. 400 yards through the air. They were tired from the start.

You mean after two weeks where the D averaged defending 12.5 drives per game? It certainly was a big issue, but they were still pretty average through those first 2 games. 15th in yards per drive, 19th in points per drive and they were forcing the 9th most 3 and outs.

Meanwhile the offense was 25th in yards per drive, 22nd in points per drive, was 2nd most in 3 and outs per drive and 25th in TOP.

At the rate the defense was giving up points in those first two games, if the offense had done its job better the D would have given up 21 PPG. Room for improvement sure, but considering the opposition in those first two games, it is better than most teams did against AZ and Cinci.

Perfect examples of how an offense can impact the D by putting them on the field too much. Good find.

[Raz]

The skeletal remains of Patric Peterson and Danzler worry me if there is not pressure on the QB it could be a long day.

[VikingsVictorious]

The skeletal remains of Patric Peterson and Danzler worry me if there is not pressure on the QB it could be a long day.

First of all considering who we have rushing the passer pressure on the QB should be a given. Second according to PFF Dantzler is a very good CB. Nothing to worry about there with the minor league receiving corp of the Pukers. I think Peterson should be able to handle himself against them also.

[CharVike]

This will be a close game as usual. But I think we sneak out a win 23-20 as home field proves the advantage.
Rodgers will do what he does. He took a page out of Kirk's book last year and piled up stats against garbage in a defeat. He had 11.6 yards an attempt which is incredible and threw 4 TDs. Hopefully the new D plays better than that.
For us I'm not sure. Of course Kirk who some feel can't do anything against good teams and picks on bad defenses actually was able to do a little against the Pack last year. Mr check down average 9.7 yards an attempt. He also threw 3 TDs. That was in a win. Kubesteak finally used Cook as the check down guy instead of slow footed Ham in this one.
We have the advantage at WR so hopefully KOC sees this and comes out in a 3 WR set with Cook as the single back. This is nothing new but it should create some space for big plays. Watch it be a blocking TE and Ham in a clock killing slug fest adventure with Cook trying to pound the ball up the middle behind Bradbury. That should set up some 3rd down opportunities and short of the sticks routes. Seen that before.

[VikingsVictorious]

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports LT David Bakhtiari (knee) is not expected to play in Week 1 against the Vikings.
Rapoport added Elgton Jenkins (pectoral/knee) is also expected to miss Week 1. It's a disastrous outcome for the Packers as Allen Lazard was listed as doubtful earlier in the week and is not expected to play. Yosh Nijman will start in place of Bakhtiari for Green Bay's opener. Nijman got eight starts at left tackle last year. Pro Football Focus charted him as allowing 20 pressures and three sacks.

RELATED: Elgton Jenkins
SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Sep 11, 2022, 8:42 AM ET

[MichaelRay82]

Just worried everything is too new - HC, scheme, not playing starters pre season, etc....

GB same Ole, same ole.....

GB gets this easy unfortunately 27-13

[StumpHunter]

Not sure who I like in this game. The Vikings do not match up well against the Packers, but the Packers were horrible in the first game last season and that kind of rust to start a season typically follows teams from year to year.

Baktiari is out, which means Hunter could have a monster game. That happens and the Vikings win. It doesn't and I could see a blowout.

[CharVike]

Too many drives made the D tired. What happened week 1 when they gave up 27 points? The QB avg 9 yards an attempt. RB gained 127. They were tired week 2 also since they gave up 34 points and allowed over 10 yards an attempt. 400 yards through the air. They were tired from the start.

You mean after two weeks where the D averaged defending 12.5 drives per game? It certainly was a big issue, but they were still pretty average through those first 2 games. 15th in yards per drive, 19th in points per drive and they were forcing the 9th most 3 and outs.

Meanwhile the offense was 25th in yards per drive, 22nd in points per drive, was 2nd most in 3 and outs per drive and 25th in TOP.

At the rate the defense was giving up points in those first two games, if the offense had done its job better the D would have given up 21 PPG. Room for improvement sure, but considering the opposition in those first two games, it is better than most teams did against AZ and Cinci.

Perfect examples of how an offense can impact the D by putting them on the field too much. Good find.

I see 61 points allowed which is getting creamed regardless of the drive count. What hurt the O week 1 was Cook only getting 61 yards on 20 carries. We couldn't block. TOP was basically even. Week 2 the Cards were +4 minutes in TOP which certainly isn't overwhelming. The Packers played both teams and the D gave up 43 points total. One game they had a +15 minute in TOP which certainly helped. The other game basically even and they didn't fold.