Lewis Cine

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CharVike
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:40 pm
CharVike wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:33 pm
Jerry Rice had game speed. I don't recall many chasing him down. Much different than lining up in some track position. The Combine is a good deal and can certainly point flaws out. I think the biggest benefit is watching the players and how they react to strange things around them. Let's face it if a player has trained for years running the 40 they will be at a distinct advantage in that event. Same with lifting weights. A person who has done it for years will have an advantage. They know the tricks of the trade. I'm the opposite. It would surprise the hell out of me if Cine is the best. Hamilton is smooth as glass and moves with little effort to my eye. He has a great flow to him. Everything is in sync. This is the second year in a row that I have been jacked up that a player I liked beyond most fell to us and we said no thanks. That's the draft every year I guess. I'm just happy Willis wasn't picked. That's the first thing I looked for. I would have put my fist through a wall if that was the case.
Jerry Rice had speed no matter how you want to define it. The 40 time was BS. Somebody messed up the stop watch or something.
Maybe it was a set up to get him to fall in the draft.
In watching film I like Cine more than Hamilton. Time will tell.
Willis the great went 3-22. Some would have had us take him at 12. I suppose you would have been thrilled if we took him at 66 and you might turn out to be right.
I certainly hope that Cine will be good. People on here who liked the pick have good things to say and I'm ok with that. We all have opinions and we can see the same things and come away with different takes. The last thing we need is a duff because that really hurts a team. Our current center is the perfect example. He sucks and now it's back to the drawing board. 4 years flushed down the crapper for nothing. You can't go forward like that. I never understood the high praise for Willis. I wouldn't use any pick on him and glad he's not on our roster. At least Kewsi didn't fall down that hole and I give him a ton of credit just for that.
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Re: Lewis Cine

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CharVike wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:54 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:40 pm
Jerry Rice had speed no matter how you want to define it. The 40 time was BS. Somebody messed up the stop watch or something.
Maybe it was a set up to get him to fall in the draft.
In watching film I like Cine more than Hamilton. Time will tell.
Willis the great went 3-22. Some would have had us take him at 12. I suppose you would have been thrilled if we took him at 66 and you might turn out to be right.
I certainly hope that Cine will be good. People on here who liked the pick have good things to say and I'm ok with that. We all have opinions and we can see the same things and come away with different takes. The last thing we need is a duff because that really hurts a team. Our current center is the perfect example. He sucks and now it's back to the drawing board. 4 years flushed down the crapper for nothing. You can't go forward like that. I never understood the high praise for Willis. I wouldn't use any pick on him and glad he's not on our roster. At least Kewsi didn't fall down that hole and I give him a ton of credit just for that.
Watch Willis be the next Lamar Jackson and make every team, but Tennessee look like idiots.
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Re: Lewis Cine

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:51 pm
CharVike wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:54 pm
I certainly hope that Cine will be good. People on here who liked the pick have good things to say and I'm ok with that. We all have opinions and we can see the same things and come away with different takes. The last thing we need is a duff because that really hurts a team. Our current center is the perfect example. He sucks and now it's back to the drawing board. 4 years flushed down the crapper for nothing. You can't go forward like that. I never understood the high praise for Willis. I wouldn't use any pick on him and glad he's not on our roster. At least Kewsi didn't fall down that hole and I give him a ton of credit just for that.
Watch Willis be the next Lamar Jackson and make every team, but Tennessee look like idiots.
I could careless about either one of those two. Passers are what the games about. Sooner or later that type of play ends and it's never pretty. Jackson plays 2 seasons in 1. It's him on almost every play. That will take it's toll on the body. Pros hit hard and can run. Once out of the pocket they will look to lay the wood. Jackson looks for the home run when he takes off. He's no 2 yards and a slide guy. That pisses the defense off even more. He had 16 TDs and 13 Ints last year. That's alot of turnovers. They can have it.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by Demi »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:16 pm
Demi wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:42 pm Definitely needed a safety.
How about taking the top ranked safety?
Nope, let's get fancy. As usual.
Didn’t you use to call Captain Munnerlyn a “no good slot midget” and linval Joseph a “fat guy with a bullet in his leg” years ago? You gotta come up with a new name for Cine now. Because when you do, those players tend to prove you wrong.

…..people don’t forget, there’s still some old dogs on this board Demi :D
As our amazing free agent signings that were being hyped as the beginning of the new purple people eaters.
Resulting in 9 seasons between them, one pro bowl appearance, because Donald was injured, for Joseph.
There isn't enough time available to even attempt to figure out how many coaches, players, and front office hires proved you wrong.

But well played, your trolling skills are still on point. Objectivity non-existent. Same old homer I remember. Every trade is genius, draft pick a future hall of famer, hire amazing, player the best. :ripple:
Last edited by Demi on Sun May 01, 2022 8:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by VikingsFan84 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:51 pm
CharVike wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:54 pm
I certainly hope that Cine will be good. People on here who liked the pick have good things to say and I'm ok with that. We all have opinions and we can see the same things and come away with different takes. The last thing we need is a duff because that really hurts a team. Our current center is the perfect example. He sucks and now it's back to the drawing board. 4 years flushed down the crapper for nothing. You can't go forward like that. I never understood the high praise for Willis. I wouldn't use any pick on him and glad he's not on our roster. At least Kewsi didn't fall down that hole and I give him a ton of credit just for that.
Watch Willis be the next Lamar Jackson and make every team, but Tennessee look like idiots.
I am glad Vikings did not draft Willis, Vikings have been trying to develop quarterbacks over the years with different head coaches and it never worked out
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Demi wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 7:59 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:16 pm

Didn’t you use to call Captain Munnerlyn a “no good slot midget” and linval Joseph a “fat guy with a bullet in his leg” years ago? You gotta come up with a new name for Cine now. Because when you do, those players tend to prove you wrong.

…..people don’t forget, there’s still some old dogs on this board Demi :D
As our amazing free agent signings that were being hyped as the beginning of the new purple people eaters.
Resulting in 9 seasons between them, one pro bowl appearance, because Donald was injured, for Joseph.
There isn't enough time available to even attempt to figure out how many coaches, players, and front office hires proved you wrong.

But well played, your trolling skills are still on point. Objectivity non-existent. Same old homer I remember. Every trade is genius, draft pick a future hall of famer, hire amazing, player the best. :ripple:
ha, I can tell you I do not troll. I was trying to bust your balls but clearly you weren't having it. But FYI, I literally just ripped these draft day trades within our division, I've continued to question the Kwesi hire, was a huge critic of zimmer, etc. So please spare me. You've been off this board way too long to throw around false judgement pal.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

CharVike wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:17 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:44 am
Hamilton could turn out to be Treadwell. Simply not enough speed for the NFL game. It was enough to make me want somebody else at 12 which was Jordan Davis. We didn't pick Cine at 12 we traded back and eventually came away with 4 second round picks more or less and a 4th instead of one first and one second and one 3rd. I'm confident that Cine and Booth will be quite good players. Less so with Ingram and Asimoah.
Treadwell problems went far beyond speed. He has a hard time catching passes and that's what did him in.
Sep 16, 2018 — The 2016 first-round pick dropped three passes in Sunday's 29-29 tie against the Packers, including one that tipped off of his hands for a late interception.
Aug 24, 2020 — Treadwell has struggled with drops thus far in training camp, Will McFadden of the Falcons' official site reports.
WR Speed.. Larry Fitzgerald - 4.63, Jerry Rice - 4.71, Cris Carter - 4.63, Laquon Treadwell - 4.63. The 1st 3 could catch a football very well. Troy Williamson: 4.32 seconds another guy who couldn't catch a football.
I understand speed. Size and speed are always important. I always like the bigger player. We have a cup cake at center who can't block. Lack of size kills him. There are many skills that can't be measured. Some players get a better break on the ball. Nobody can tell why that is. There's no measurement involved. I call it skill level. Hamilton was asked to cover guys one on one at times. Who would ask a slow person to do that? The Ravens had no problem making the pick. If he slide to 27 I could understand.
Cine is not a very good ball athlete no more than that. He's a box safety with great speed who is a high tackler. That's not good either. He will surrender yards while making the tackle. That don't work. In the box you need to stick a player. Once hit it's over. Time will tell and I certainly hope it works in our favor. Right now I don't see that outcome.
Not a very good athlete?

He had the top athletic composite score for any safety in the draft!
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 8:37 am
CharVike wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:17 pm
Treadwell problems went far beyond speed. He has a hard time catching passes and that's what did him in.
Sep 16, 2018 — The 2016 first-round pick dropped three passes in Sunday's 29-29 tie against the Packers, including one that tipped off of his hands for a late interception.
Aug 24, 2020 — Treadwell has struggled with drops thus far in training camp, Will McFadden of the Falcons' official site reports.
WR Speed.. Larry Fitzgerald - 4.63, Jerry Rice - 4.71, Cris Carter - 4.63, Laquon Treadwell - 4.63. The 1st 3 could catch a football very well. Troy Williamson: 4.32 seconds another guy who couldn't catch a football.
I understand speed. Size and speed are always important. I always like the bigger player. We have a cup cake at center who can't block. Lack of size kills him. There are many skills that can't be measured. Some players get a better break on the ball. Nobody can tell why that is. There's no measurement involved. I call it skill level. Hamilton was asked to cover guys one on one at times. Who would ask a slow person to do that? The Ravens had no problem making the pick. If he slide to 27 I could understand.
Cine is not a very good ball athlete no more than that. He's a box safety with great speed who is a high tackler. That's not good either. He will surrender yards while making the tackle. That don't work. In the box you need to stick a player. Once hit it's over. Time will tell and I certainly hope it works in our favor. Right now I don't see that outcome.
Not a very good athlete?

He had the top athletic composite score for any safety in the draft!
I think he was trying to say he didn't have good ball skills. That's somewhat true based on his amount of interceptions. I've read that he has great anticipation and recognition on running plays and not as good on passing plays. I've also read that he's great on both. If he makes a mistake he's got the recovery speed to compensate.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by StanM »

IIsweet wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:50 am Our new defensive scheme has a lot of 3 safety looks. Harry is not getting faster and Bynum is not exactly a burner. Those guys have some nice ball skills , but speed is not a strength. Cine has the length size and speed.
If he doesn't have great ball skills, maybe that's why he plays as a Safety and not a WR ???
I think it is a great plug and play addition. Will learn from the Hit Man while on the field. He is a student of the game, is a very mature kid, and plays downhill really fast with a mindset to punish.
Instantly makes our team better. That is the key to picks !
Great observation. One of the common threads with many of our draft choices was speed, smarts, love for the game and enough smarts to :govikes: quickly learn the playbook. Sideline to sid line speed is important for a lot of reasons and stopping the run has been a problem.

Last year we were constantly worried about losing starters because we didn’t have depth. This draft looks to fill positions of need right away as well as adding more depth and speed. A team with a domed stadium and artificial turf drafting speed in the secondary, who would have guessed?
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by VikingLord »

Interesting comments here regarding Hamilton's speed. The draft is usually about measurables, and sometimes players slip because they don't test well or perform well for one reason or another. Guys who perform on the field and have a solid track record sometimes end up sliding as a result, which seems silly, but time will tell if there was a reason for it. While I would have love to get Hamilton at #12, I was far more upset with what the Vikings got in return to move all the way down to #32 than the player they took at #32.

Cine seems like a solid prospect and resembles Booth in the way he likes to fly up and hit. Not sure if he's going to be an effective cover guy at the pro level, although I have nothing to base that on beyond most of Cine's highlight reels show him blowing up a runner or coming up field to blow up a route. Would have liked to see something down the field where he came over to disrupt a deep ball on a fade route or something. I'm sure there are examples of that, but I didn't see them when I looked.

The player I wanted the Vikings to take at #12 was Jordan Davis, largely because he's a matchup nightmare and I don't think he can be single blocked, plus the Vikings run defense stunk last year and Davis immediately addresses that. As it goes, we'll have to see how Davis works out in Philly and whether the Vikings truly got value out of the trade down as compared to the Ravens and the Eagles.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:42 pm Interesting comments here regarding Hamilton's speed. The draft is usually about measurables, and sometimes players slip because they don't test well or perform well for one reason or another. Guys who perform on the field and have a solid track record sometimes end up sliding as a result, which seems silly, but time will tell if there was a reason for it. While I would have love to get Hamilton at #12, I was far more upset with what the Vikings got in return to move all the way down to #32 than the player they took at #32.

Cine seems like a solid prospect and resembles Booth in the way he likes to fly up and hit. Not sure if he's going to be an effective cover guy at the pro level, although I have nothing to base that on beyond most of Cine's highlight reels show him blowing up a runner or coming up field to blow up a route. Would have liked to see something down the field where he came over to disrupt a deep ball on a fade route or something. I'm sure there are examples of that, but I didn't see them when I looked.

The player I wanted the Vikings to take at #12 was Jordan Davis, largely because he's a matchup nightmare and I don't think he can be single blocked, plus the Vikings run defense stunk last year and Davis immediately addresses that. As it goes, we'll have to see how Davis works out in Philly and whether the Vikings truly got value out of the trade down as compared to the Ravens and the Eagles.
Jordan Davis was a high pick and I fully believe he will be a difference maker at the point of attack. Everything starts at the LOS and works back. If you get destroyed at the LOS it's over. Davis will be a dam good player. IMO a guy like Hamilton only comes around about every decade at the position he plays. I don't give a crap about some track event which is what the 40 yard dash is. Speed is great and I won't deny that. Play speed is much different than track speed. If you train hard and master the fundamentals of running a 40 yard dash you will have the potential to post a great speed. Big deal. Troy Williamson ran a 4.3 but wasn't a very good pro player for other reasons. Staying at 12 was the way to go. There were some exceptional players at that spot. I never would have moved down unless we walked away from it with a haul of picks and a player or two. Top level players improve your team more than a good player. Those top level guys were there at 12. Take your pick. We will hear about Davis just like we will hear Hamilton. Both are top level at their positions. Sauce was the top level CB but flew off the board because of the position he plays. The Ravens and Eagles both hit it out of the park. We would have also but wanted to be cute and fancy.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:09 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 8:37 am
Not a very good athlete?

He had the top athletic composite score for any safety in the draft!
I think he was trying to say he didn't have good ball skills. That's somewhat true based on his amount of interceptions. I've read that he has great anticipation and recognition on running plays and not as good on passing plays. I've also read that he's great on both. If he makes a mistake he's got the recovery speed to compensate.
You are exactly right. Ball athlete and ball skills are the same thing. He had 2 interceptions in his college career. He also is a high tackler and that won't help. He will get pushed back for additional yardage. Every player has flaws. Cine might do the most jumping jacks or whatever track/Olympic event there is. This is football. He doesn't have great play recognition skills. He doesn't see the entire field. One of Hamilton's highlights is something you don't see everyday and really represents his playing speed along with his field vision. He saw a fellow defender bite on a route and he knew right away that he was smoked and immediately took off like a bullet (that's means great game speed) across the field and made a play on the ball. If that don't make scouts or fans take notice nothing will. I've watch this game a long time and don't recall seeing that ever. At this point it don't matter. Genius Kewsi felt Cine was the much better player based on a track event or something else. He's the pro making the picks. I'm just a fan and observer. Time will tell if the Genius made the right move. If not we will be back to square one at that position.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 10:13 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:09 am
I think he was trying to say he didn't have good ball skills. That's somewhat true based on his amount of interceptions. I've read that he has great anticipation and recognition on running plays and not as good on passing plays. I've also read that he's great on both. If he makes a mistake he's got the recovery speed to compensate.
You are exactly right. Ball athlete and ball skills are the same thing. He had 2 interceptions in his college career. He also is a high tackler and that won't help. He will get pushed back for additional yardage. Every player has flaws. Cine might do the most jumping jacks or whatever track/Olympic event there is. This is football. He doesn't have great play recognition skills. He doesn't see the entire field. One of Hamilton's highlights is something you don't see everyday and really represents his playing speed along with his field vision. He saw a fellow defender bite on a route and he knew right away that he was smoked and immediately took off like a bullet (that's means great game speed) across the field and made a play on the ball. If that don't make scouts or fans take notice nothing will. I've watch this game a long time and don't recall seeing that ever. At this point it don't matter. Genius Kewsi felt Cine was the much better player based on a track event or something else. He's the pro making the picks. I'm just a fan and observer. Time will tell if the Genius made the right move. If not we will be back to square one at that position.
Char nobody says ball athlete except you.. That's why it was confusing. How much have you watched Cine play. He has great recognition and instincts. High tackler doesn't mean much. He brings them down and he does it with authority. Hamilton might have these great intangibles, but there's a certain level of track speed you need to make it in the NFL. Do you think somebody who runs a 6 second 40 on the track could make it as a safety in the NFL? I'm guessing not. How about 5 second 40. I will tell you no way in hell. Once he was able to put up a 4.59 so call it 4.6. That's borderline. On his 2 pro days he ran in the 4.7s. That's too slow IMO. He might not have enough speed and wash out of the league. I'm not saying which is better. I think it is very debatable, but we got Cine and Booth for the price we would have paid for Hamilton alone. I'll take that 100 times out of 100. Time will tell.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 9:18 am
VikingLord wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:42 pm Interesting comments here regarding Hamilton's speed. The draft is usually about measurables, and sometimes players slip because they don't test well or perform well for one reason or another. Guys who perform on the field and have a solid track record sometimes end up sliding as a result, which seems silly, but time will tell if there was a reason for it. While I would have love to get Hamilton at #12, I was far more upset with what the Vikings got in return to move all the way down to #32 than the player they took at #32.

Cine seems like a solid prospect and resembles Booth in the way he likes to fly up and hit. Not sure if he's going to be an effective cover guy at the pro level, although I have nothing to base that on beyond most of Cine's highlight reels show him blowing up a runner or coming up field to blow up a route. Would have liked to see something down the field where he came over to disrupt a deep ball on a fade route or something. I'm sure there are examples of that, but I didn't see them when I looked.

The player I wanted the Vikings to take at #12 was Jordan Davis, largely because he's a matchup nightmare and I don't think he can be single blocked, plus the Vikings run defense stunk last year and Davis immediately addresses that. As it goes, we'll have to see how Davis works out in Philly and whether the Vikings truly got value out of the trade down as compared to the Ravens and the Eagles.
Jordan Davis was a high pick and I fully believe he will be a difference maker at the point of attack. Everything starts at the LOS and works back. If you get destroyed at the LOS it's over. Davis will be a dam good player. IMO a guy like Hamilton only comes around about every decade at the position he plays. I don't give a crap about some track event which is what the 40 yard dash is. Speed is great and I won't deny that. Play speed is much different than track speed. If you train hard and master the fundamentals of running a 40 yard dash you will have the potential to post a great speed. Big deal. Troy Williamson ran a 4.3 but wasn't a very good pro player for other reasons. Staying at 12 was the way to go. There were some exceptional players at that spot. I never would have moved down unless we walked away from it with a haul of picks and a player or two. Top level players improve your team more than a good player. Those top level guys were there at 12. Take your pick. We will hear about Davis just like we will hear Hamilton. Both are top level at their positions. Sauce was the top level CB but flew off the board because of the position he plays. The Ravens and Eagles both hit it out of the park. We would have also but wanted to be cute and fancy.
I'm one of the biggest fans of Davis there is and I would have been thrilled if we drafted him at 12, However, if I was given the opportunity to trade him for Cine and Booth I'd have done it without hesitation.
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Re: Lewis Cine

Post by CharVike »

VikingsFan84 wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 8:21 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:51 pm
Watch Willis be the next Lamar Jackson and make every team, but Tennessee look like idiots.
I am glad Vikings did not draft Willis, Vikings have been trying to develop quarterbacks over the years with different head coaches and it never worked out
With Willis the thing that the media or fans will never think about or mention is the reason why he left Auburn. The short answer is he didn't work hard or show the necessary commitment for the QB position. Yes he shined at that backwoods school but he could do that by just showing up. His talent level alone was far beyond those other kids. He didn't need to work. Another big time program never went after him. He burnt that bridge.