Vikings "a good quarterback on a cheaper contract away from being dangerous"

[CharVike]

Plus in 2018 Everson basically lost his marbles and X Rhodes who was a top cover corner sucked and sucked the following season then Zim decided to get rid of him. It took two years of crap play before he decided to move on. That was talked about on this board. A good HC knows when a guy sucks.

Neither Rhodes or Griffen "sucked" in 2018. 2018 the Vikings had arguably the best pass defense in the NFL and were 3rd in YPG given up and 1st in TDs given up against the pass. There isn't a logical explanation for how the #1 CB could suck on a defense that gives up so few passing yards and passing TDs, but I am sure you will attempt an illogical one anyway. Griffen had a mental breakdown, but his on the field production was still pretty good. PFF credits him with as many pressures and more sacks than Kahlil Mack in 2019. Rhodes' play dropped off significantly in 2019, but it turns out he was still a better option than the guys behind him.

Griffen went from 13 sackes in 2017 to 5.5 2018. IMO 5.5 sucks. 2017 was his best season which helped that team. He never reached that again. That was a huge drop off regardless of what you think and isn't very good. Rhodes was never the same player after he was destroyed in 2017 playoffs. That started the 2nd half against the Saints. Zim's D could never hold up against good competition. What I will give Zim credit for is he wouldn't lose to the bottom feeding crap teams. This Stafford who is now called a great leader Zim owned him. A leader don't allow someone to own him. Stafford was Mr check down if there ever was one against Zim. You call Cousins only a dump off guy after averaging over 8 yards an attempt two years in a row with no speed at WR because Kubesteak had no clue what he was doing and why he is no longer running an offense. When Ham is constantly out running pass routes instead of doing the only skill he has which is blocking you know he's an idiot.

[StumpHunter]

Neither Rhodes or Griffen "sucked" in 2018. 2018 the Vikings had arguably the best pass defense in the NFL and were 3rd in YPG given up and 1st in TDs given up against the pass. There isn't a logical explanation for how the #1 CB could suck on a defense that gives up so few passing yards and passing TDs, but I am sure you will attempt an illogical one anyway. Griffen had a mental breakdown, but his on the field production was still pretty good. PFF credits him with as many pressures and more sacks than Kahlil Mack in 2019. Rhodes' play dropped off significantly in 2019, but it turns out he was still a better option than the guys behind him.

Griffen went from 13 sackes in 2017 to 5.5 2018. IMO 5.5 sucks. 2017 was his best season which helped that team. He never reached that again. That was a huge drop off regardless of what you think and isn't very good. Rhodes was never the same player after he was destroyed in 2017 playoffs. That started the 2nd half against the Saints. Zim's D could never hold up against good competition. What I will give Zim credit for is he wouldn't lose to the bottom feeding crap teams. This Stafford who is now called a great leader Zim owned him. A leader don't allow someone to own him. Stafford was Mr check down if there ever was one against Zim. You call Cousins only a dump off guy after averaging over 8 yards an attempt two years in a row with no speed at WR because Kubesteak had no clue what he was doing and why he is no longer running an offense. When Ham is constantly out running pass routes instead of doing the only skill he has which is blocking you know he's an idiot.

Rhodes gave up 39 yards in the NFCCG and the longest pass he gave up was 12 yards, with most of his passes given up coming underneath on short checkdowns. Waynes and Newman gave up a combined 186 yards in that game. Where are you seeing that he got "destroyed"?

Can you give some numbers for Zim's defense being historically worse than the average defense against good offenses? Not cherry picked games, but averages against good offenses compared to bad ones, and then compare those numbers to other defense for context. Seems to me that every defense does worse against good offenses than bad ones, but you must have run the numbers to prove it is only Zim defenses that do that. Can't wait to see them.

[CharVike]

Griffen went from 13 sackes in 2017 to 5.5 2018. IMO 5.5 sucks. 2017 was his best season which helped that team. He never reached that again. That was a huge drop off regardless of what you think and isn't very good. Rhodes was never the same player after he was destroyed in 2017 playoffs. That started the 2nd half against the Saints. Zim's D could never hold up against good competition. What I will give Zim credit for is he wouldn't lose to the bottom feeding crap teams. This Stafford who is now called a great leader Zim owned him. A leader don't allow someone to own him. Stafford was Mr check down if there ever was one against Zim. You call Cousins only a dump off guy after averaging over 8 yards an attempt two years in a row with no speed at WR because Kubesteak had no clue what he was doing and why he is no longer running an offense. When Ham is constantly out running pass routes instead of doing the only skill he has which is blocking you know he's an idiot.

Rhodes gave up 39 yards in the NFCCG and the longest pass he gave up was 12 yards, with most of his passes given up coming underneath on short checkdowns. Waynes and Newman gave up a combined 186 yards in that game. Where are you seeing that he got "destroyed"?

Can you give some numbers for Zim's defense being historically worse than the average defense against good offenses? Not cherry picked games, but averages against good offenses compared to bad ones, and then compare those numbers to other defense for context. Seems to me that every defense does worse against good offenses than bad ones, but you must have run the numbers to prove it is only Zim defenses that do that. Can't wait to see them.

Every game is a cherry piked game to you. The sample size is small in the NFL. Here is our playoff D under Zim. The great D game was against the Seahawks but we lost the wild-card playoff game 10–9 while playing in subzero temperatures and the third-coldest game in NFL history. We gave up only 10 points but the weather made it almost impossible to score as Teddy couldn't put up a TD. The miracle game we were up 17 points at the start of the 3rd. Zim's D folded. Gave up 24 the 2nd half which is getting pounded. Eagles 38. We were up 20-10 heading into the 4th QTR against the Saints and of course we folded. Kirk lead the OT road dog victory against a future HOFer. Then the 49ers we only gave up 27 but it was one of the worst beat downs I have seen in my 50 years following. They ran the ball down our throats. Only 186 yards but it wasn't a bunch of long runs it was 3 yards and a cloud of dust over and over and over. TOP 38:27 minutes. That's getting your head handed to you on D. That was the finale shovel full of dirt on that Ds grave. That's bad playoff D. I don't see to many shut downs except Wilson but the weather played a part in that. Even when we had leads the D always folded. I don't need to run numbers I saw the games. The 49er game was the most boring hunk of junk I have ever seen. Couldn't even sit through it. Well that Eagle game was worse couldn't even watch that one in full. That's every playoff game.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Regardless, Cousins joined a completely different coaching regime. Maybe similar situation roster wise but nowhere near coaching wise.

Zimmer was a hard-headed, conservative, defensive minded head coach that actually wanted nothing to do with signing him. And paired him with John DeFilippo who failed everywhere he went after the Eagles SB run.

Matt Stafford was paired with Sean McVay...enough said

So was Cousins in 2015 and 2016 and it resulted in 9 and 8 wins.

Another bad take. Cousins was with Washington in 2015 and 2016. You're going to tell me those Washington teams were anywhere near the talent of the Rams? Literally not even close.

That's like saying, if Sean McVay was the OC in Detroit when Stafford was there they would've won the SB. Anyone with a brain knows that wouldnt be true.

Swing and a miss on that argument man

[Pondering Her Percy]

Rhodes' play dropped off significantly in 2019, but it turns out he was still a better option than the guys behind him.

He actually wasnt. Rhodes' PFF grade in 2019 was 46.4. I dont think any Vikings corner has graded that bad since then and we've had some bad pass defenses. As bad as Breeland was he was at a 47.2 this year.

[J. Kapp 11]

Totally off subject ... well, it's actually on point for the subject because this supposed to be about the Vikings being a cheaper quarterback away from being dangerous.

After last season, it's just funny now to look at how absurd this topic has become. We have so many holes all over this roster. You could put peak Tom Brady on this roster, and it probably doesn't get past the Wild Card round.

[StumpHunter]

Rhodes' play dropped off significantly in 2019, but it turns out he was still a better option than the guys behind him.

He actually wasnt. Rhodes' PFF grade in 2019 was 46.4. I dont think any Vikings corner has graded that bad since then and we've had some bad pass defenses. As bad as Breeland was he was at a 47.2 this year.

PFF grades are not the gold standard of which CB played better than another. Going from a pass defense that gave up 6.8 YPA to 7.9 YPA, and 17 points in passer rating once Rhodes left proves that.

[StumpHunter]

So was Cousins in 2015 and 2016 and it resulted in 9 and 8 wins.

Another bad take. Cousins was with Washington in 2015 and 2016. You're going to tell me those Washington teams were anywhere near the talent of the Rams? Literally not even close.

That's like saying, if Sean McVay was the OC in Detroit when Stafford was there they would've won the SB. Anyone with a brain knows that wouldnt be true.

Swing and a miss on that argument man

Garcon and Jackson in their primes and a really good Oline. Pretty much the Detroit Lions.

[StumpHunter]

Rhodes gave up 39 yards in the NFCCG and the longest pass he gave up was 12 yards, with most of his passes given up coming underneath on short checkdowns. Waynes and Newman gave up a combined 186 yards in that game. Where are you seeing that he got "destroyed"?

Can you give some numbers for Zim's defense being historically worse than the average defense against good offenses? Not cherry picked games, but averages against good offenses compared to bad ones, and then compare those numbers to other defense for context. Seems to me that every defense does worse against good offenses than bad ones, but you must have run the numbers to prove it is only Zim defenses that do that. Can't wait to see them.

Every game is a cherry piked game to you.

Every game you cherry pick is a cherry picked game, correct.

You made a claim, let's see the numbers to back it up.

[allday1991]

Totally off subject ... well, it's actually on point for the subject because this supposed to be about the Vikings being a cheaper quarterback away from being dangerous.

After last season, it's just funny now to look at how absurd this topic has become. We have so many holes all over this roster. You could put peak Tom Brady on this roster, and it probably doesn't get past the Wild Card round.

This times 1000, anyone who thinks this team has the talent to compete with a "good quarterback" on a cheaper contract needs to take the purple sunglasses off, team is filled with holes.

[Cliff]

Totally off subject ... well, it's actually on point for the subject because this supposed to be about the Vikings being a cheaper quarterback away from being dangerous.

After last season, it's just funny now to look at how absurd this topic has become. We have so many holes all over this roster. You could put peak Tom Brady on this roster, and it probably doesn't get past the Wild Card round.

This times 1000, anyone who thinks this team has the talent to compete with a "good quarterback" on a cheaper contract needs to take the purple sunglasses off, team is filled with holes.

I think the point of the "cheaper contract" would be to use the savings to fill a couple of those holes.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Another bad take. Cousins was with Washington in 2015 and 2016. You're going to tell me those Washington teams were anywhere near the talent of the Rams? Literally not even close.

That's like saying, if Sean McVay was the OC in Detroit when Stafford was there they would've won the SB. Anyone with a brain knows that wouldnt be true.

Swing and a miss on that argument man

Garcon and Jackson in their primes and a really good Oline. Pretty much the Detroit Lions.

1.) Hah well I guess jokes on you because in 2015 Garçon and Jackson were both 29. Not sure where that classifies as them being in their “prime”. And to add onto that, Jackson played half the season.

Come 2016, both garçon and Jackson were 30 and played a full year just about.

Come 2017 both were gone.

2.) And mind you, their starting RBs those 3 years:

2015: Alfred Morris (who didn’t break 800 yards and scored 1 TD)
2016: Robert Kelly (no comment needed)
2017: Semaje Perine (a plodder of a RB)

3.) His offensive lines in 2015 and 2016 were solid. However in 2017, he was sacked 41 times. That line was horrid.

4.) Oh and one more thing:

Washington’s total defense those 3 years:

2015: 28th
2016: 28th
2017: 21st

So maybe they weren’t the Detroit Lions, but those Washington teams weren’t far off. And without cousins they probably would’ve been bottom of the barrel. Cousins got those teams to .500. Literally nobody else did. Not the defense, not the RBs, maybe the WRs one year. But it was cousins. Without cousins, those teams were picking top 5 every year with or without Jackson and Garçon.

So I can tell you that you’re going nowhere with this one. Those Washington teams were bad. In nearly every facet. So don’t even try to make yourself look like a fool and try and defend those teams. I’m helping you save face here.

However, I do find it funny though that so many fans give Stafford the Detroit excuse but don’t give cousins the Washington excuse acting like Washington was some sort of powerhouse that cousins couldn’t get over the hump. When at one point Stafford had a loaded defense for a couple years in Detroit and one of the best WRs to ever play the game in Calvin Johnson. Much better than Jackson and Garçon in their “29 year old prime”

[J. Kapp 11]

Cousins got those teams to .500. Literally nobody else did. Not the defense, not the RBs, maybe the WRs one year. But it was cousins. Without cousins, those teams were picking top 5 every year with or without Jackson and Garçon.

It's uncanny how Kirk Cousins manages to get his teams to .500. Year after year. Probably why he's 59-59-2.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Cousins got those teams to .500. Literally nobody else did. Not the defense, not the RBs, maybe the WRs one year. But it was cousins. Without cousins, those teams were picking top 5 every year with or without Jackson and Garçon.

It's uncanny how Kirk Cousins manages to get his teams to .500. Year after year. Probably why he's 59-59-2.

Pull Cousins off Washington during those years and tell me what they have..... I can tell you its a well below .500 team. Not sure what anyone expected him to do in Washington. Just like nobody expected Stafford to do anything in Detroit. Washington is arguably the biggest laughing stock of a franchise in the NFL.

[SunyP]

Is 13th realy that bad?

Rankings are updated through the end of the 2021 regular season. They include starting quarterbacks and backups who filled in for QBs dealing with injuries at the end of the year. QBs with long-term injuries are not included.
QB Final
rank Prev.
week Trend 2021
QBR
Aaron Rodgers 1 1 68.8
Patrick Mahomes 2 2 62.6
Tom Brady 3 3 68.5
Justin Herbert 4 7 66.1
Joe Burrow 5 4 54.4
Josh Allen 6 6 61.0
Dak Prescott 7 9 54.9
Matthew Stafford 8 5 63.5
Kyler Murray 9 8 56.8
Ryan Tannehill 10 11 56.3
Russell Wilson 11 10 53.9
Derek Carr 12 12 52.7
Kirk Cousins 13 14 51.9
Mac Jones 14 15 51.3
Lamar Jackson 15 17 51.0
Jalen Hurts 16 18 48.8
Jimmy Garoppolo 17 20 52.6
Matt Ryan 18 16 46.2
Tua Tagovailoa 19 19 50.6
Zach Wilson 20 21 28.5
Justin Fields 21 22 26.0
Tyler Huntley 22 23 48.3
Taylor Heinicke 23 24 40.3
Trevor Lawrence 24 28 33.6
Carson Wentz 25 13 54.4
Jared Goff 26 32 39.0
Case Keenum 27 33 36.3
Ben Roethlisberger 28 27 35.8
Davis Mills 29 30 35.6
Taysom Hill 30 25 42.6
Trey Lance 31 37 33.6
Baker Mayfield 32 29 35.3
Teddy Bridgewater 33 26 47.7
Cam Newton 34 31 26.7
Sam Darnold 35 34 33.3
Drew Lock 36 35 23.9
Andy Dalton 37 36 33.2