Post Bears Game discussion

[StpViking]

I agree with the Sloter idea.

The difference btw Pete Carroll and Mike Zimmer is night and day. The Seahawks just paid Matt Flynn at this money to start and this rookie out played him in preseason. Carroll took a chance on a rookie.

Contrast that to Zimm. Last year, Rookie RT outplayed Veteran Rashod Hill, and he kept on trying to go back to Hill. It's his conservative (read cowardly) nature that really bugs me about him.

As to why Sloter should start over Cousins. Look at the reaction from the all the Vikings Players when Sloter was out on the field, they could not take their eyes off him, waiting to see what magic the kid could pull off next. THAT'S A LEADER!

[Boon]

Its pretty simple. Ignore the cash you're paying him and bench his ####. The moment the team starts winning everyone will forget he even exists, or his contract. Wilfs are billionaires. Just cut his ####, pay him out and be done with it.

Getting a bit irked at people saying there isnt anything you can do about him. Yes there is. Make him hold a clipboard. I for one, would not complain one bit about his salary. Its a drop in the bucket for the team. Just start mannion for a few games and see what happens

[Pondering Her Percy]

I agree with the Sloter idea.

The difference btw Pete Carroll and Mike Zimmer is night and day. The Seahawks just paid Matt Flynn at this money to start and this rookie out played him in preseason. Carroll took a chance on a rookie.

Contrast that to Zimm. Last year, Rookie RT outplayed Veteran Rashod Hill, and he kept on trying to go back to Hill. It's his conservative (read cowardly) nature that really bugs me about him.

As to why Sloter should start over Cousins. Look at the reaction from the all the Vikings Players when Sloter was out on the field, they could not take their eyes off him, waiting to see what magic the kid could pull off next. THAT'S A LEADER!

The reaction of Vikings players when sloter was on the field? I literally have no idea what you’re talking about? If guys are getting excited on the sideline during the preseason, it literally goes for every player on those third string offenses. Cook and mattison will get excited for Boone. Diggs and thielen will get excited for Bisi Johnson. Like I have zero clue what you’re trying to prove here. You’re saying sloter is a leader because guys on the sideline “couldn’t take their eyes off him” (because you can somehow pay attention to that all game) and get excited for him? Lol I don’t think you have any clue what a leader is. Maybe the kid was a leader but I can tell you that what you’re saying doesn’t define one. That’s a poor, poor argument

[Pondering Her Percy]

Its pretty simple. Ignore the cash you're paying him and bench his ####. The moment the team starts winning everyone will forget he even exists, or his contract. Wilfs are billionaires. Just cut his ####, pay him out and be done with it.

Getting a bit irked at people saying there isnt anything you can do about him. Yes there is. Make him hold a clipboard. I for one, would not complain one bit about his salary. Its a drop in the bucket for the team. Just start mannion for a few games and see what happens

After what mannion showed, why would we just start him? To tank our season? Sorry but teams don’t do that. Especially 2-2 teams. We were 2-2 in 2017 and went 13-3. Benching cousins just isn’t realistic at this point. He’s not the sole cause of what is going on. The D is inconsistent, the offense and coordinators are inconsistent, the OL is horrid at pass blocking and so on. If you somehow think mannion will somehow solve our problems you’re sadly mistaken. No less they aren’t going to tank. So I don’t have a clue where you’re going with this

[TSonn]

Yeah the only way I'd say we bench Cousins is if we had a more mobile QB or a QB who excels at reading defenses pre-snap. Mannion is neither (which also is a knock on Spielman for not having a viable back-up).

[Alaskan]

By hiring a first-time OC and playcaller? Their passing game looks unsophisticated some of the playcalling and play designs are embarrassing. For example, that 2 point conversion attempt yesterday was laughably bad, one of the worst I've ever seen. What made them think that had a snowball's chance in hell of working?

The idea was that Kubiak would provide the experience that Stefanski lacked. That isn't a bad idea. However, 4 games in the experiment is not working with regards to the passing attack. it is obvious that the rushing attack has taken strides, they deserve credit there. What is a mess is the passing attack looks AWFUL and there is no excuse for it. Stefanski was around previous OCs who could throw well. Kubiak obviously has coaching his fair share of successful passers. There is no GOOD reason for it to be this bad. Outside of Bradbury we saw this roster function better as a passing attack last season.

There is something going on in Eagan, the story just hasn't broken yet. Either Cousins has some injury that he is hiding or hasn't been disclosed, Cousins is just playing like hot garbage (Thielen's recent coments suggest this) or there is an issue going on between the coaches. It is hard to believe that Kukiak, with his resume, would allow a passing team this talented perform at this level unless there is more going on than we are seeing or hearing. Keep in mind he brought two long time assistants with him. These aren't new coaches, they've been through it all, including winning a SB together.

Whatever it is, it is a mess. Its on Zimmer to right the ship. Right now they look like the worst team in the NFC North.

They are presently the worst team in the NFC North. Without question.

Not sure about the “something going on In Eagan theory”. I would like to think there is a simple explanation for this poor play also, but I just have my doubts.

[Alaskan]

Almost no play action yesterday. No bootlegs or rollouts. A lot of 5 and 7 step drops. Stefanski didn’t do much to mitigate the rush by getting cousins out of the pocket. I wonder how much different things would be if Kubiak was calling the plays? This system is all set up with the run game and play action. The two go hand and hand, one feeds off the other. I wonder how the playbook and game plans are being put together on the offensive side of the ball? It’s an odd arrangement with stefanski as the OC/play caller and Kubiak and his staff along side. I am just curious how this arrangement works exactly? I have seen about enough of stefanski’s play calling. Kubiak is the one with the pedigree! I vote he take over play calling duties. The clock is ticking......the “window” is rapidly closing on this team. No more time to be cute. They have a Super Bowl winning offensive coach on this staff and it’s time they let him run this show. It’s just so frustrating.

[Pondering Her Percy]

One thing I will say is Dalvin Cook is a hell of a RB but my goodness is he horrid at pass blocking. Whiffed on the 2nd Cousins fumble and got blown back into Cousins on one of the sacks. Guys need to watch these sacks again and tell me how much time that guy really had back there. The bears got to the QB quicker than any other team in the NFL week 4. It's so easy for a fan to sit there and yell "throw the ball" but look at how much time he really had to throw and tell me how many of those sacks he was "holding the ball too long". He was lucky to get to the back of his drop they were coming so fast.

[CharVike]

One thing I will say is Dalvin Cook is a hell of a RB but my goodness is he horrid at pass blocking. Whiffed on the 2nd Cousins fumble and got blown back into Cousins on one of the sacks. Guys need to watch these sacks again and tell me how much time that guy really had back there. The bears got to the QB quicker than any other team in the NFL week 4. It's so easy for a fan to sit there and yell "throw the ball" but look at how much time he really had to throw and tell me how many of those sacks he was "holding the ball too long". He was lucky to get to the back of his drop they were coming so fast.

I think your correct. IMO Cousins is under tremendous pressure. This isn't an excuse for him but our OL blows. It's a joke. I watch some of the Steeler game and that bum QB they had playing look awesome. But his protection was great. Nobody touched him. Dalton looked like crap. He was under heat big time. He was hit big time. Was striped. Looked like a Cousins repeat. Well the strip happened because the OL can't block. Period. One thing I thought of if Big Ben came to our team he would be creamed. The guy has a hard time moving. With the Steelers he don't have to move. So even if we got a winner he wouldn't be a winner with us. Hate to say it but our team is done. We won't make the playoffs. And it really shows how import the OL is. This OL that they but together will be blown up by a decent team. No run lanes and no pass protection. You can't move the ball that way. Yes any old man on this board can block as well as Cook. How can an OC expect him to block? Is he watching practice? If he is does he even know what he is seeing.

[StumpHunter]

One thing I will say is Dalvin Cook is a hell of a RB but my goodness is he horrid at pass blocking. Whiffed on the 2nd Cousins fumble and got blown back into Cousins on one of the sacks. Guys need to watch these sacks again and tell me how much time that guy really had back there. The bears got to the QB quicker than any other team in the NFL week 4. It's so easy for a fan to sit there and yell "throw the ball" but look at how much time he really had to throw and tell me how many of those sacks he was "holding the ball too long". He was lucky to get to the back of his drop they were coming so fast.

2 sacks were on Cook for sure, maybe more.

4th longest time to throw in week 4, btw.

[StumpHunter]

Nope, you are right, it is that simple and Zimmer has no clue how to coach defense.

It is easy to force a competent backup to throw bad, risky passes when his team is up two scores. Just blitz him!

Actually, when most competent backup QBs are up by 2 scores, they aren't asked to throw much at all.

The fact that the Bears continued to do so and said backup QB compared it to running the scout team in practice should tell you something.

Coaching a defense and calling a game on defense are 2 different things. I think Zimmer is a decent coach. I'm not sure he's very good at adjusting. In your view, the defense did everything that it could have done to affect the outcome of the game? They were powerless to do anything better than what they managed to do?

That argument is false on its face. All you have to do is look at how the Bears defended the Vikings to understand that. The Bears defense took away what the Vikings did well and attacked them mercilessly where they are weak. They exposed every flaw of that offense.

Now tell me how the Vikings defense did the same to the Bears offense yesterday? Did they make that offense look inept and ineffective in your view?

He wasn't asked to throw much at all. 9 pass attempts in the second half for 57 yards. Which means when he did throw, it was essentially a long hand-off.

[mansquatch]

I think the problem with the defense is they're overly complacent and comfortable with one another. They've played so long together they are essentially stuck in this rut of doing the same thing over and over. It's probably better if a bunch of them leave next year, talent is irrelevant if effort is lacking. There's been far too many games they've looked completely unprepared for a supposed top tier defense.

Offensively we're just screwed as Cousins is here for another year with a no trade clause. The best we can hope for is a guy gets drafted and can sit a year and get up to speed while Cousins plays out his last year. Of course for that to happen, Rick will probably need to be fired because the guy NEVER drafts a QB unless absolutely necessary.

He shouldn't get another bite at the QB apple in Minnesota anyway, not after signing Cousins to this ridiculous contract and spending 3 first round picks on QBs in the past 9 years. The QB position has been spectacularly mismanaged.

I think the QB thing is way too harsh. Ponder was a bad pick. Most of the QBs in that class were. Bridgewater was drafted as the future. That pick was starting to pan out when his knee buckled. Not sure how you put that on the GM? Since Teddy's knee buckled a week before the season started, they needed a QB, so they gambled on Bradford. Again, defensible, not really any starting QBs on the waiver wire in early September. After Bradford's knees also fell apart we were faced with needing a new QB and the options were Keenum and Cousins. I get it, they over paid for Cousins but when you look at the circumstances coming out of 2017 are you really going to say we should have taken Keenum instead? Have you watched him the last two seasons? He has been appreciably worse than Cousins.

I agree that the QB situation hasn't worked out how we fans would like. That isn't debatable. But past Ponder, are you really going excoriate Spielman for 2 instances of bad luck with career ending injuries (in back to back seasons no less) and then gambling on the best option available with a SB window open? I think if Spielman had gone with Keenum over Cousins he'd probably already be fired.

This is just classic post loss saber rattling. All the old crap about the GM is coming out of the woodwork. We didn't lose to Bears because of Rick Spielman. We lost because Mike Zimmer didn't do his job. It is as simple as that.

[Svt40]

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/9/29 ... game-notes

This article echoes nicely my views on this game overall. IMO, it is spot on with where it lays the blame.

What if...


What if the Wilfs saw the writing on the wall as far as Zimm goes and brought Kubiak in as an insurance policy. Get him up to speed with the team and what it could and could not do before they dump Zimm.

It's a stretch I know but stranger things have happened.

[TSonn]

4th longest time to throw in week 4, btw.

That's such an interesting stat that I just have a hard time believing. Is it easily susceptible to outliers influencing the data (aka a couple bootlegs that take 6 or 7 seconds)?

A better stat would be the percentage of dropbacks where the QB was able set his feet at the designed step.

[chicagopurple]

"This is just classic post loss saber rattling. All the old crap about the GM is coming out of the woodwork. We didn't lose to Bears because of Rick Spielman. We lost because Mike Zimmer didn't do his job. It is as simple as that.
[/quote]"

It seems absurd to say the loss has nothing to do with the fact that Spielman hasn't picked a quality QB in over 7 yrs, that the Vikes ignored their OL for about 5 years, that the GM picked a one dimensional coach who is supposed to be a defensive guru yet doesnt really appear to be even that..........