2019 Season General Thread (News, Notes, Interviews, etc)

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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by Bowhunting Viking »

fiestavike wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:45 am
CharVike wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:24 am
Losing Murray was a big blow. Especially if we are going to get back to more run.
Losing Murray was not a negative. He is an easily replaceable RB who was not particularly good at anything and was a poor fit as their short yardage/power back.
Gotta agree here. Murray just showed flashes. Not a consistent runner at all. I never felt that he truly maximized his size at all. He ran so upright and easily went down on first contact. A guy that big should be alot better at short ydg runs.
We can definitely replace his production with a cheaper option.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by YikesVikes »

fiestavike wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:45 am
CharVike wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:24 am
Losing Murray was a big blow. Especially if we are going to get back to more run.
Losing Murray was not a negative. He is an easily replaceable RB who was not particularly good at anything and was a poor fit as their short yardage/power back.
False
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

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I will never say anything bad about Rick if he Lands me Ford and Hakeem Butler. He can do whatever he wants with the rest of the draft but Ford in the 1st and Butler in the 2nd would make me a fan. Trading up to grab an injured Simmions at the start of the 3rd would be even better, While still drafting. another OL in the 3rd. To dream!!!
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:32 pm I will never say anything bad about Rick if he Lands me Ford and Hakeem Butler. He can do whatever he wants with the rest of the draft but Ford in the 1st and Butler in the 2nd would make me a fan. Trading up to grab an injured Simmions at the start of the 3rd would be even better, While still drafting. another OL in the 3rd. To dream!!!
I cant see Rick picking a Olineman that is as good as Ford and could start day 1. But I dont even see Ford being available. I can see him going in the top 5. A lot of teams are looking at him.

Why so big on Butler? Because hes big? You know what happened to the last big WR Rick took right? I actually like Hall, and think we could get him at #3, for our true #3 WR.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by YikesVikes »

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:56 pm
YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:32 pm I will never say anything bad about Rick if he Lands me Ford and Hakeem Butler. He can do whatever he wants with the rest of the draft but Ford in the 1st and Butler in the 2nd would make me a fan. Trading up to grab an injured Simmions at the start of the 3rd would be even better, While still drafting. another OL in the 3rd. To dream!!!
I cant see Rick picking a Olineman that is as good as Ford and could start day 1. But I dont even see Ford being available. I can see him going in the top 5. A lot of teams are looking at him.

Why so big on Butler? Because hes big? You know what happened to the last big WR Rick took right? I actually like Hall, and think we could get him at #3, for our true #3 WR.
1. Butler isn't just big. We haven't had a guy his size ever. I think CP was 6'2, Treadwell 6'2. Butler is almost 6'6 (6'5+)

2. Butler is also a good route runner. He's not Diggs but for his size, he is able to run the full route tree including arrow route. I wouldn't put him to do so in the pros but compare that to guys like Metcalf that ran only streaks, back shoulder fades and slants.

3. His catching radius is tremendous. 10 3/4 inch hands paired with 35 inches arms and a 6'6 frame gives this guy the ability to do anything he wants out there. Add his 36 inch vertical and he is a QB's dream.

4. He is physical in all aspects of the game. He loves blocking and uses his size to impact the game. He is a man among boys during and after the catch and gets YAC when most WRs go down.

5. He ran a 4.48. Diggs ran a 4.46. Diggs gets up to speed quicker but at 230, thats a good time.

6. He was productive. 1300 yards, 9TD and a 22 YARDS per catch metric. He can take you deep or cause trouble in the screen game. Very valuable if you ask me.

7. He fits a need. We need another WR on this team and not a slot guy. We have 2 Wrs that a better in the slot than outside already. Using beebe as a 3rd moves both of them outside in traditional sets. Now imagine adding Butler to the outside, placing AT or Diggs in the slot and opposite side of the field. He will open up a lot of the underneath and backside digs plays because that Safety will have to help the corner due to size mismatches.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by YikesVikes »

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:56 pm
YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:32 pm I will never say anything bad about Rick if he Lands me Ford and Hakeem Butler. He can do whatever he wants with the rest of the draft but Ford in the 1st and Butler in the 2nd would make me a fan. Trading up to grab an injured Simmions at the start of the 3rd would be even better, While still drafting. another OL in the 3rd. To dream!!!
I cant see Rick picking a Olineman that is as good as Ford and could start day 1. But I dont even see Ford being available. I can see him going in the top 5. A lot of teams are looking at him.

Why so big on Butler? Because hes big? You know what happened to the last big WR Rick took right? I actually like Hall, and think we could get him at #3, for our true #3 WR.
As far as Hall, he was a drop machine two years ago. Like really bad. Also, I don't like how he catches the ball. Too many chest and arm grabs. I like to see a clean pluck and he doesn't do so. He has always looked explosive but notice, he is limited in his route running. Deep stuff and shallow stuff. Last year he only had 38 catches. His QB was to blame some but that's not the production you want to see.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:44 pm
PurpleKoolaid wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:56 pm

I cant see Rick picking a Olineman that is as good as Ford and could start day 1. But I dont even see Ford being available. I can see him going in the top 5. A lot of teams are looking at him.

Why so big on Butler? Because hes big? You know what happened to the last big WR Rick took right? I actually like Hall, and think we could get him at #3, for our true #3 WR.
As far as Hall, he was a drop machine two years ago. Like really bad. Also, I don't like how he catches the ball. Too many chest and arm grabs. I like to see a clean pluck and he doesn't do so. He has always looked explosive but notice, he is limited in his route running. Deep stuff and shallow stuff. Last year he only had 38 catches. His QB was to blame some but that's not the production you want to see.
Exactly, a few years ago he had some drops, but improved a lot this past season. And he missed some games but still had a nice amount of catches. He reminds me a bit of Theilen, with how he makes some catches, and he has a nice burst of speed I love in WR,s makes up for some poor route running. Plus he might be there in the 3rd round. I didnt know Butler was that fast, he may be a little like Moss. But I dont see us taking a 2nd rd WR. And to be honest, I dont trust Rick picking a WR. No one knows how much influence Kubiak will have in the draft. I would be happy with kubiak picking the offensive picks, and Zimmer picking the D ones.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by CharVike »

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:56 pm
YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:32 pm I will never say anything bad about Rick if he Lands me Ford and Hakeem Butler. He can do whatever he wants with the rest of the draft but Ford in the 1st and Butler in the 2nd would make me a fan. Trading up to grab an injured Simmions at the start of the 3rd would be even better, While still drafting. another OL in the 3rd. To dream!!!
I cant see Rick picking a Olineman that is as good as Ford and could start day 1. But I dont even see Ford being available. I can see him going in the top 5. A lot of teams are looking at him.

Why so big on Butler? Because hes big? You know what happened to the last big WR Rick took right? I actually like Hall, and think we could get him at #3, for our true #3 WR.
Lets see. The NFL lacks OL talent as a whole. If Fords a monster he will fly off the board. Look at some mocks and Ford isn't picked top 10 and most have him going in the 20s. So is he worth the 18th pick? I guess so. What if him and Metcalf are there at 18? I'm picking Metcalf because he can blow the house up and teams will need to stay in 2 deep. That opens up many things and fills a void for us. Ford also fills a void. But I imagine Metcalf flys off the board based on work outs. I would like a WR that can run. Not another Treadwell type who can't move. I'm hoping the pick is Lock. But that won't happen even if he's still there.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by CharVike »

YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:30 pm
fiestavike wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:45 am

Losing Murray was not a negative. He is an easily replaceable RB who was not particularly good at anything and was a poor fit as their short yardage/power back.
False
The guy blows but flew off the FA board. OK. Now people think this Anderson guy is a catch. No team is biting for a reason. There are issues that none of us know about.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by MrPurplenGold »

YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:32 pm I will never say anything bad about Rick if he Lands me Ford and Hakeem Butler. He can do whatever he wants with the rest of the draft but Ford in the 1st and Butler in the 2nd would make me a fan. Trading up to grab an injured Simmions at the start of the 3rd would be even better, While still drafting. another OL in the 3rd. To dream!!!
I don't know if I can see the Vikings picking Ford. He's not a real good fit in the new zone blocking scheme the vikings are trying to use. At 329 lbs, i think he's a little too heavy. He also tested towards the bottom of every speed metric at the combine. That doesn't mean he won't be a good tackle or guard, i just don't see him as a scheme fit. While Oklahoma ran some zone scheme concepts, I don't think they asked Ford to pull or get out in space a lot. He seemed to do a lot of down blocks or 1 on 1 blocks.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:38 pm
PurpleKoolaid wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:56 pm

I cant see Rick picking a Olineman that is as good as Ford and could start day 1. But I dont even see Ford being available. I can see him going in the top 5. A lot of teams are looking at him.

Why so big on Butler? Because hes big? You know what happened to the last big WR Rick took right? I actually like Hall, and think we could get him at #3, for our true #3 WR.
1. Butler isn't just big. We haven't had a guy his size ever. I think CP was 6'2, Treadwell 6'2. Butler is almost 6'6 (6'5+)

2. Butler is also a good route runner. He's not Diggs but for his size, he is able to run the full route tree including arrow route. I wouldn't put him to do so in the pros but compare that to guys like Metcalf that ran only streaks, back shoulder fades and slants.

3. His catching radius is tremendous. 10 3/4 inch hands paired with 35 inches arms and a 6'6 frame gives this guy the ability to do anything he wants out there. Add his 36 inch vertical and he is a QB's dream.

4. He is physical in all aspects of the game. He loves blocking and uses his size to impact the game. He is a man among boys during and after the catch and gets YAC when most WRs go down.

5. He ran a 4.48. Diggs ran a 4.46. Diggs gets up to speed quicker but at 230, thats a good time.

6. He was productive. 1300 yards, 9TD and a 22 YARDS per catch metric. He can take you deep or cause trouble in the screen game. Very valuable if you ask me.

7. He fits a need. We need another WR on this team and not a slot guy. We have 2 Wrs that a better in the slot than outside already. Using beebe as a 3rd moves both of them outside in traditional sets. Now imagine adding Butler to the outside, placing AT or Diggs in the slot and opposite side of the field. He will open up a lot of the underneath and backside digs plays because that Safety will have to help the corner due to size mismatches.
Agree completely on Butler. Watched him a lot at Iowa State. Constantly making big catches. An absolute nightmare on contested balls and back-shoulder throws. I've seen him literally take balls out of the hands of defenders. He really excels on run after catch -- just bullies people. Another strength, he's a great blocker. He recently worked out with Calvin Johnson, and Johnson loved what he saw.

Butler isn't perfect. He can get a little lazy on routes, especially where NFL receivers make their money -- at the top of routes. He doesn't have a ton of agility, which limits his route tree. At times, he has amazing hands, but he also has some really mysterious drops. Some rate his hands as a strength ... others a weakness.

If I were to sum him up, he's everything Laquon Treadwell was supposed to be, only he can actually run.

Availability is a mystery at this point. One pundit has him going at No. 9 to Buffalo. Another has him in the 5th round at No. 153. It's impossible to know of his availability.

I'll say this. In the first round, if we're looking at skill players, T.J. Hockenson of Iowa, to me, is the pick if he's available. That's an explosive tight end if there ever was one, and Rudolph is getting long in the tooth. In fact, Rudolph would probably be more effective in 2-tight-end sets if the other tight end could stretch the field. It's somewhat doubtful that he'll be available, but that's who I'd take if we want a skill player. Don't know if I'd take Butler at No. 18. He could be a 2-year project. But to me, if he's available after round 1, it's an easy pick.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by YikesVikes »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:49 pm
YikesVikes wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:38 pm

1. Butler isn't just big. We haven't had a guy his size ever. I think CP was 6'2, Treadwell 6'2. Butler is almost 6'6 (6'5+)

2. Butler is also a good route runner. He's not Diggs but for his size, he is able to run the full route tree including arrow route. I wouldn't put him to do so in the pros but compare that to guys like Metcalf that ran only streaks, back shoulder fades and slants.

3. His catching radius is tremendous. 10 3/4 inch hands paired with 35 inches arms and a 6'6 frame gives this guy the ability to do anything he wants out there. Add his 36 inch vertical and he is a QB's dream.

4. He is physical in all aspects of the game. He loves blocking and uses his size to impact the game. He is a man among boys during and after the catch and gets YAC when most WRs go down.

5. He ran a 4.48. Diggs ran a 4.46. Diggs gets up to speed quicker but at 230, thats a good time.

6. He was productive. 1300 yards, 9TD and a 22 YARDS per catch metric. He can take you deep or cause trouble in the screen game. Very valuable if you ask me.

7. He fits a need. We need another WR on this team and not a slot guy. We have 2 Wrs that a better in the slot than outside already. Using beebe as a 3rd moves both of them outside in traditional sets. Now imagine adding Butler to the outside, placing AT or Diggs in the slot and opposite side of the field. He will open up a lot of the underneath and backside digs plays because that Safety will have to help the corner due to size mismatches.
Agree completely on Butler. Watched him a lot at Iowa State. Constantly making big catches. An absolute nightmare on contested balls and back-shoulder throws. I've seen him literally take balls out of the hands of defenders. He really excels on run after catch -- just bullies people. Another strength, he's a great blocker. He recently worked out with Calvin Johnson, and Johnson loved what he saw.

Butler isn't perfect. He can get a little lazy on routes, especially where NFL receivers make their money -- at the top of routes. He doesn't have a ton of agility, which limits his route tree. At times, he has amazing hands, but he also has some really mysterious drops. Some rate his hands as a strength ... others a weakness.

If I were to sum him up, he's everything Laquon Treadwell was supposed to be, only he can actually run.

Availability is a mystery at this point. One pundit has him going at No. 9 to Buffalo. Another has him in the 5th round at No. 153. It's impossible to know of his availability.

I'll say this. In the first round, if we're looking at skill players, T.J. Hockenson of Iowa, to me, is the pick if he's available. That's an explosive tight end if there ever was one, and Rudolph is getting long in the tooth. In fact, Rudolph would probably be more effective in 2-tight-end sets if the other tight end could stretch the field. It's somewhat doubtful that he'll be available, but that's who I'd take if we want a skill player. Don't know if I'd take Butler at No. 18. He could be a 2-year project. But to me, if he's available after round 1, it's an easy pick.
I rather have a guy out of scheme that can open holes than a guy who fits the scheme but cannot create a lane. I think people miss that as a major cause of our running woes last season. Guys up front got beat or often just stalemated at the line. Whats the point of being fast enough to get to the point of attack but you just become another obstacle for the running back to get past because you can't move anyone. Ford should be taken if he is there unless a truley special D playewr falls.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

YikesVikes wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:16 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:49 pm
Agree completely on Butler. Watched him a lot at Iowa State. Constantly making big catches. An absolute nightmare on contested balls and back-shoulder throws. I've seen him literally take balls out of the hands of defenders. He really excels on run after catch -- just bullies people. Another strength, he's a great blocker. He recently worked out with Calvin Johnson, and Johnson loved what he saw.

Butler isn't perfect. He can get a little lazy on routes, especially where NFL receivers make their money -- at the top of routes. He doesn't have a ton of agility, which limits his route tree. At times, he has amazing hands, but he also has some really mysterious drops. Some rate his hands as a strength ... others a weakness.

If I were to sum him up, he's everything Laquon Treadwell was supposed to be, only he can actually run.

Availability is a mystery at this point. One pundit has him going at No. 9 to Buffalo. Another has him in the 5th round at No. 153. It's impossible to know of his availability.

I'll say this. In the first round, if we're looking at skill players, T.J. Hockenson of Iowa, to me, is the pick if he's available. That's an explosive tight end if there ever was one, and Rudolph is getting long in the tooth. In fact, Rudolph would probably be more effective in 2-tight-end sets if the other tight end could stretch the field. It's somewhat doubtful that he'll be available, but that's who I'd take if we want a skill player. Don't know if I'd take Butler at No. 18. He could be a 2-year project. But to me, if he's available after round 1, it's an easy pick.
I rather have a guy out of scheme that can open holes than a guy who fits the scheme but cannot create a lane. I think people miss that as a major cause of our running woes last season. Guys up front got beat or often just stalemated at the line. Whats the point of being fast enough to get to the point of attack but you just become another obstacle for the running back to get past because you can't move anyone. Ford should be taken if he is there unless a truley special D playewr falls.
I just agreed with you, and you're still arguing. Whatever.
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by YikesVikes »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:48 pm
YikesVikes wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:16 pm

I rather have a guy out of scheme that can open holes than a guy who fits the scheme but cannot create a lane. I think people miss that as a major cause of our running woes last season. Guys up front got beat or often just stalemated at the line. Whats the point of being fast enough to get to the point of attack but you just become another obstacle for the running back to get past because you can't move anyone. Ford should be taken if he is there unless a truly special D player falls.
I just agreed with you, and you're still arguing. Whatever.
Except I'm not arguing. You are reading my words as such and choosing a tone. You made a point about the scheme (and you are right) and I simply said that despite what the FO thinks, I would rather have a good player that may not be best for the scheme than a guy that fits the scheme but can't create a whole. The statement wasn't a slight against what you were saying and surely wasn't antagonistic in nature. I'll just chalk this up to a misunderstanding and ignore the "whatever".
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Re: Vikings In-House Free Agents and Cut/Trade Tracker

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

YikesVikes wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:14 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:48 pm
I just agreed with you, and you're still arguing. Whatever.
Except I'm not arguing. You are reading my words as such and choosing a tone. You made a point about the scheme (and you are right) and I simply said that despite what the FO thinks, I would rather have a good player that may not be best for the scheme than a guy that fits the scheme but can't create a whole. The statement wasn't a slight against what you were saying and surely wasn't antagonistic in nature. I'll just chalk this up to a misunderstanding and ignore the "whatever".
What the hell are you talking about? Scheme?

I didn't say anything about scheme. I agreed with you about Hakeem Butler.

It appears you're inadvertently replying to someone else.
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