Cordarrelle Patterson

[losperros]

Assuming either of those things are even true anymore... and if they are, why has there been no improvement in almost 2 years under this coaching staff?

The rest of this is just general griping, not directed at anyone in particular.

If there's been no improvement in almost 2 years what does that say about the job Patterson's position coach is doing? How many reps is Patterson even getting as a WR in practice? Are they acually making an effort to develop him in that capacity or did they give up on it?

I sure wish we had a better idea of what's going on instead of Zimmer's vague comments on the matter.

As we all know, Patterson scored 6 offensive TDs in the last 5 games of 2013. He scored another in the first game of 2014. That's 7 TDs in 6 games.

To put that into perspective, Vikings WRs scored 6 TDs in the entire 2015 season (4 for Diggs, 2 for Wallace).

Patterson runs routes well enough to get open. He catches the ball well. It's hard to believe, even if he made some mistakes or struggled at times, that he couldn't have produced at or above the level of most of the Vikings receivers this season. For example, Wallace had 39 catches for 473 yards and played in all 16 games. In 2014, Patterson had 33 catches for 384 yards and his playing time was seriously reduced over the last 7 games of that season.

I get the feeling they just have little to no interest in developing the kid. Maybe he has an attitude problem. Maybe it's something else. It's just frustrating to see that kind of playmaking ability squandered while we watch one of the least productive, least explosive passing games in the league.

You got it, Jim. Too many questions and not enough answers. And the answers we hear just don't add up.

[Cliff]

If there's been no improvement in almost 2 years what does that say about the job Patterson's position coach is doing? How many reps is Patterson even getting as a WR in practice? Are they actually making an effort to develop him in that capacity or did they give up on it?

These are the same coaches that were able to transition a 4th round pick into one of the best (2nd best?) rookie WRs in the league. It's either he's not picking something up or an attitude problem. Though, I think "attitude" problem is probably misleading because it implies he's a "locker room distraction" type. Throwing chairs, screaming, etc. My worry is his attitude problem is he thinks (or thought?) he knows better than the coaches.

Him choosing a person to train with over the one recommended by the coaches, for example. I think that mattered more than it seems. The incident itself could have angered the coaches as he did his own thing and came back no more ready (apparently). But it could also show a hard-headedness and a feeling that he got this far "on his own". Something like that.

This article talks about that incident after it was revealed it was Irvin.

Article Here.

I'll put this mildly. . .if Cordarrelle Patterson had an opportunity to work with a Hall of Fame receiver this offseason in order to get himself right and make a bigger contribution to the team and refused to do so, his head might be in relatively close proximity to his fourth point of contact. Honestly, you can say what you want about Michael Irvin the analyst or Michael Irvin the person, but Michael Irvin the wide receiver is one of the best to ever play the game, and if he was willing to go out of his way to help Cordarrelle Patterson out, the only questions should have been "when" and "where," not "why?"

As it is, Patterson is now an afterthought at receiver after bursting onto the scene in late 2013. What an absolutely missed opportunity this was for him.

The fact is, when your boss tells you need training from a particular source you don't ignore him and arrange your own training and if you do you'd better be able to prove it actually was helpful. I don't expect Irvin would have fixed all of his problems ... but it might have at least been an act to show the coaching staff he's willing to do whatever it takes to get onto the field.

You have to wonder if anything else like this went on behind the scenes. Was he ignoring other "advice"? When (if ever) did he learn he needs to follow exactly what the coaches say if he wants to see the field?

[IrishViking]

These are the same coaches that were able to transition a 4th round pick into one of the best (2nd best?) rookie WRs in the league. It's either he's not picking something up or an attitude problem. Though, I think "attitude" problem is probably misleading because it implies he's a "locker room distraction" type. Throwing chairs, screaming, etc. My worry is his attitude problem is he thinks (or thought?) he knows better than the coaches.

Him choosing a person to train with over the one recommended by the coaches, for example. I think that mattered more than it seems. The incident itself could have angered the coaches as he did his own thing and came back no more ready (apparently). But it could also show a hard-headedness and a feeling that he got this far "on his own". Something like that.

This article talks about that incident after it was revealed it was Irvin.

Article Here.
The fact is, when your boss tells you need training from a particular source you don't ignore him and arrange your own training and if you do you'd better be able to prove it actually was helpful. I don't expect Irvin would have fixed all of his problems ... but it might have at least been an act to show the coaching staff he's willing to do whatever it takes to get onto the field.

You have to wonder if anything else like this went on behind the scenes. Was he ignoring other "advice"? When (if ever) did he learn he needs to follow exactly what the coaches say if he wants to see the field?

This is the exact sort of stuff that makes my brain hurt when people say Zimmer or Norv are at fault or Patterson isn't being used properly

If Patterson wont train with arguably one of the top 20 receivers of all time at his coaches request HOW can they trust him to run a post route? Nah I think a GO works better here, I think I'll run a crossing route, etc.

[Mothman]

These are the same coaches that were able to transition a 4th round pick into one of the best (2nd best?) rookie WRs in the league. It's either he's not picking something up or an attitude problem.

.. or he's not getting the necessary reps/help with his game or it's a combination of all of the above. Diggs was already a pretty polished route runner coming out of college, after working with former NFL WR Keenan McCardell so I think that's kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

Though, I think "attitude" problem is probably misleading because it implies he's a "locker room distraction" type. Throwing chairs, screaming, etc. My worry is his attitude problem is he thinks (or thought?) he knows better than the coaches.

That's possible but unfortunately, it's as speculative as asking the kind of questions I asked above.

Him choosing a person to train with over the one recommended by the coaches, for example. I think that mattered more than it seems. The incident itself could have angered the coaches as he did his own thing and came back no more ready (apparently). But it could also show a hard-headedness and a feeling that he got this far "on his own". Something like that.

We know so little about the actual circumstances of that whole Irvin incident that I have a hard time giving it the weight most fans seem to give it. I saw the Daily Norseman report when it was published and they clearly know nothing more than we do.

The fact is, when your boss tells you need training from a particular source you don't ignore him and arrange your own training and if you do you'd better be able to prove it actually was helpful. I don't expect Irvin would have fixed all of his problems ... but it might have at least been an act to show the coaching staff he's willing to do whatever it takes to get onto the field.

I would think working for weeks with one of the toughest trainers in the biz might also be considered such an act.

You have to wonder if anything else like this went on behind the scenes. Was he ignoring other "advice"? When (if ever) did he learn he needs to follow exactly what the coaches say if he wants to see the field?

Again, all we can do is speculate.

I just want to know what the heck is going on. I'm not blaming the coaches and I'm not blaming Patterson. I just know a very talented, explosive player can't get on the field to help a really weak passing attack and we don't have any explanation from the player, the coaching staff or the team about why. It's frustrating to see that talent, and the investment made to acquire it, largely going to waste, especially when we still see it on kickoffs.

[Mothman]

This is the exact sort of stuff that makes my brain hurt when people say Zimmer or Norv are at fault or Patterson isn't being used properly

If Patterson wont train with arguably one of the top 20 receivers of all time at his coaches request HOW can they trust him to run a post route?

Because there's little to no connection between one and the other?

He chose not to train with Irvin. He didn't spend his offseason robbing banks.

If his attitude is so bad that, after 3 years (2 with this coaching staff) they can't trust him to run a post route when he's told to do so then cut him. However, that strikes me as wildly unlikely. They trusted him to run routes and threw to him with games on the line in 2014.

[S197]

I think if you look at Patterson in a vacuum it may make more sense, it was well known he was unpolished (high risk) when he was drafted and he seems to have an oddball personality based on articles and such. By oddball I don't mean disruptive or even subordinate, he just seems like the type of guy who thinks a little differently, he strikes me as very carefree and maybe not very competitive. After the fumble in the Green Bay game he looked like he didn't have a care in the world. Compare that to the shots of the Bengals RB that fumbled. Not to go back to the whole JUGS machine we saw in the offseason but the perception from many observers is that he doesn't seem to be putting in as much time as he probably could.

Obviously it's all speculation but that's mainly what a fan forum is for. I think what's more puzzling is when you add Charles Johnson into the mix. He too was very productive and now he's not even active on the roster! Granted he was a late pick or UDFA (I forget which) but when he had his shot he was very productive in this offense. Maybe it's a case of trying to give the guy you spent big bucks on (Wallace) as much opportunity as possible to earn that paycheck. But I think that's a bad approach. We've seen teams like Seattle and Green Bay make highly productive receivers out of no namers.

Tl;dr -- Patterson not getting playing time alone I get it. But when you add in CJ & Wallace dynamic, things look a lot more opaque. Does Norv "doghouse" guys too quickly or are they really losing their spots to more productive guys?

[IrishViking]

Because there's little to no connection between one and the other?

He chose not to train with Irvin. He didn't spend his offseason robbing banks.

If his attitude is so bad that, after 3 years (2 with this coaching staff) they can't trust him to run a post route when he's told to do so then cut him. However, that strikes me as wildly unlikely. They trusted him to run routes and threw to him with games on the line in 2014.

You ask your employee to do something, they don't do it. Trust lost. If you don't lose trust in that situation you are risking others in your management style.

I would say that the reason he is on the bench is not unlikely that he was coming back the huddle and the staff was wondering wtf he just did.

[IrishViking]

Obviously it's all speculation but that's mainly what a fan forum is for. I think what's more puzzling is when you add Charles Johnson into the mix. He too was very productive and now he's not even active on the roster! Granted he was a late pick or UDFA (I forget which) but when he had his shot he was very productive in this offense. Maybe it's a case of trying to give the guy you spent big bucks on (Wallace) as much opportunity as possible to earn that paycheck. But I think that's a bad approach. We've seen teams like Seattle and Green Bay make highly productive receivers out of no namers.

Wasn't it reported that Charles had a bum rib or something most of this season?

[losperros]

You ask your employee to do something, they don't do it. Trust lost. If you don't lose trust in that situation you are risking others in your management style.

I would say that the reason he is on the bench is not unlikely that he was coming back the huddle and the staff was wondering wtf he just did.

If only that was the case, then everything would be explained. But it's not. As both Boon and Jim explained earlier, Patterson's performance during his rookie season basically negates all that. He can play the game and be exceptional with the ball in his hands. Either the team wants a playmaker who scores TDs on the field or they don't. Even this season, Patterson displayed his running ability as a returner. The guy has indisputable talent.

Now add Charles Johnson to the mix and the situation gets even weirder. Perhaps Cliff is correct in wondering about how hard it is to get out of Turner's doghouse. Maybe Zimmer's too. And keep in mind that Johnson's rib was hardly a season long injury. He even made one (count it, just one) great leaping catch for 35 yards against the Bears and then disappeared from the field again.

I really like Zimmer, though admittedly I'm just so-so at best about Turner. Yet this isn't an indictment. It's just frustration over talent being squandered during a season when our team's passing game was near the bottom of the league. I don't understand any justification for not putting the playmakers on the field. Other teams do that. Why can't the Vikings?

[IrishViking]

I really like Zimmer, though admittedly I'm just so-so at best about Turner. Yet this isn't an indictment. It's just frustration over talent being squandered during a season when our team's passing game was near the bottom of the league. I don't understand any justification for not putting the playmakers on the field.

I just don't agree with the intuitive leap that a handful of plays the majority of which were two season ago and the occasional big return means he is being squandered as a next level, top tier offensive weapon.

[losperros]

And if this coaching staff is reluctant, they may as well let him go somewhere he can be appreciated. I can guarantee he will have success wherever he goes.

Exactly. And they might as well get rid of Charles Johnson too. Neither Patterson nor Johnson will be unemployed for long.

[IrishViking]

So fire Zimmer and Norv and bring in a staff that doesn't needlessly abuse their players and deny them play time?

[Mothman]

So fire Zimmer and Norv and bring in a staff that doesn't needlessly abuse their players and deny them play time?

Of course not.

[IrishViking]

Of course not.

Why not thoigh? If I legitmately believed that they were squandering two pro bowl level receivers I'd want them gone. Wasting talent doesnt will the Superbowl

[S197]

Wasn't it reported that Charles had a bum rib or something most of this season?

I think he had an injury but was a healthy scratch towards the end of the year if I recall correctly.