2014 Vikings Draft Discussion

[mondry]

remains to be seen, but if he turns out to be what they thought he was, it will have been worth it. If not, bad trade...There's really no price too high to pay for an elite QB.

Yeah there is and the skins paid too much. This is the equivalent of the Hershel Walker trade all over again, the Rams made off like bandits and have the #2 pick again not to mention every thing else the skins gave them. It's dumb, if I'm a skins fan I'm pissed! That team is awful and has NO FIRST ROUND PICK AGAIN! In fact, they'll probably be picking #1 overall next year, so if you think it's "worth it" to suck for 5 years before you can start building your team around that super QB you extremely over paid on then damn, I dunno what to say.

Santana Moss - 13 seasons 34 years old - WR
Reed Doughty - 8 seasons 31 years old - SS
Nick Barnett - 11 seasons 32 years old - LB
London Fletcher - 16 seasons 38 years old - LB
Chris Chester - 8 seasons 30 years old - G
Kedric Golston - 8 seasons 30 years old - DE
Deangelo Hall - 10 seasons 30 years old - CB
Will Montgomery - 8 seasons 30 years old - C

That's 8 starters, and there's a few more that are in the 29 year old range that I left out (cutoff of 30 years old) so almost half of the starters will need to be replaced in the next 1-3 years. It's a rebuilding project on the scale we went through but with no first round picks to do it. Although like I said, I'm sure they'll have the #1 pick next year, that team is getting older and will remain AWFUL.

I just can't buy that paying whatever price is worth it, if a QB can play for you for 10 years, you suck for 5 of them while you wait to get your picks back so you can build a team around them? No way!

[S197]

Just traded 4 for 1 for a WR. And Spielman said we "weren't that far" or some such nonsense so hey let's go for it!

Honestly, if there was a "can't miss" Luck type guy, it'd be worth it in a second. But there isn't. And gambling on Johnny Football for that much would be insane.

With a new coach, and Spielman already on the hot seat, he's going to have to get this turned around fast...

While it was 4 for 1, one of those picks was a 7th throwaway and the other was a 2nd that turned into a 1st. So essentially what the Vikings gave up on was a 3rd and 4th pick. With perfect 20/20 hindsight I guess if you don't do the trade you take Kiko Alonso in the 2nd and who in the third? Keenan Allen is already gone, so is Mathieu. I just don't see any big miss they made by trading up. If they didn't trade up, then we're looking for a WR, by trading up, we're looking for a LB. In either case, you're stilling missing a piece. Frankly, if Patterson pans out, it looks like a good move because if you don't use perfect hindsight, there's a lot of picks that could have been worse (Te'o).

[saint33]

While it was 4 for 1, one of those picks was a 7th throwaway and the other was a 2nd that turned into a 1st. So essentially what the Vikings gave up on was a 3rd and 4th pick. With perfect 20/20 hindsight I guess if you don't do the trade you take Kiko Alonso in the 2nd and who in the third? Keenan Allen is already gone, so is Mathieu. I just don't see any big miss they made by trading up. If they didn't trade up, then we're looking for a WR, by trading up, we're looking for a LB. In either case, you're stilling missing a piece. Frankly, if Patterson pans out, it looks like a good move because if you don't use perfect hindsight, there's a lot of picks that could have been worse (Te'o).

Kiko was long gone by our pick in the 2nd

[S197]

Kiko was long gone by our pick in the 2nd

You're right, I was thinking of this year's draft position rather than last year .

Trade looks even better then.

[saint33]

You're right, I was thinking of this year's draft position rather than last year .

Trade looks even better then.

Ya, I think we'd be looking at a combo like Arthur Brown in the 2nd and Stedman Bailey/Quinton Patton type in the 3rd. Or Keenan Allen in the 2nd and a Zavier Gooden/Nico Johnson/Khaseem Greene type in the 3rd. Who knows what we would have gotten in the 4th though.

I guess there is a possibility that we take Brown in the 2nd and the use our 4th to move up in the 3rd and still get Allen.

Still I think getting CP will turn out to be the correct decision. If you asked me to trade CP today straight up for Keenan Allen and Arthur Brown, I'd keep him and just continue to look for a LB.

[mondry]

No, I think it still depends. Most franchises would take 5 bad years for Brady or Peyton (both of whom have already played considerably more than 10 years by the way). I'm not sure how you decided that QBs today only play for 10 years. 20 years will be closer to the average to an elite pocket passer.

Further more, things are always changing in the NFL. For example, everybody wants to build through the draft. That's because some other teams have had success doing it. But certain other conditions, such as the rookie wage scale, have changed things. You can currently sign top end players leaving their second contract for pretty low prices. Its just a matter of time until a team picks up all the scraps and puts together a superbowl winner, and then free agency will be the hot way to build a team.

I'm just saying, there is more than one way to skin a cat, but In todays NFL with the rules what they are and the importance of having a QB, there's essentially nothing I wouldn't give up for an Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady like talent...

I don't think 20 years is the -average-, I think that's the extreme that very few guys will ever do. It basically means a QB who gets picked at 20-22 years old will HAVE to play to 40-42 years old and that's really not that realistic, I think Favre is the only QB who's even done that.

Furthermore, this is the era of Free Agency, there's no guarantee you can lock up your QB for 20 years straight. Peyton is on a new team, Brees's changed teams previously, Favre played for 2 different teams over his last few years.

Now that I think about it, I don't think anyone has EVER done it, played both 20 years and all for the same team. If Brady plays 6 more years he'll be 42 and they all have to be for the Pats to get to 20 years.

I think you're way out in left field if you think "things are changing" so much you can ignore the draft and build a championship team through free agency and teams just haven't figured out how yet. Players off of their second contract cheap? So a team full of Jared Allens and Kevin Williams who have lost a step, not sure that's going to work out.

The trouble is, you don't know for sure that you are looking at a talent like that until after they've been in the league.

I would trade anyone/everyone on our team, whoever the colts wanted for Andrew Luck and just start rebuilding from scratch.

Well now we can agree on something. You're taking an incredibly high amount of risk for a player like RG3 (the most recent example of the kind of prospect you could get) and I don't see that kind of QB playing 20 years, he didn't even last one before severely damaging his career.

If we could have traded players for Luck then sure do that of course, as long as you keep your draft picks but I don't see anyway the Colts agree to that! This isn't Madden where you just screw the other team over and they agree. Plus there is absolutely zero from what I can tell that the Colts would even be willing to trade the #1 pick. Turns out everyone want's an elite QB or the chance to take one...

[Purple bruise]

I don't think 20 years is the -average-, I think that's the extreme that very few guys will ever do. It basically means a QB who gets picked at 20-22 years old will HAVE to play to 40-42 years old and that's really not that realistic, I think Favre is the only QB who's even done that.

Furthermore, this is the era of Free Agency, there's no guarantee you can lock up your QB for 20 years straight. Peyton is on a new team, Brees's changed teams previously, Favre played for 2 different teams over his last few years.

Now that I think about it, I don't think anyone has EVER done it, played both 20 years and all for the same team. If Brady plays 6 more years he'll be 42 and they all have to be for the Pats to get to 20 years.

I think you're way out in left field if you think "things are changing" so much you can ignore the draft and build a championship team through free agency and teams just haven't figured out how yet. Players off of their second contract cheap? So a team full of Jared Allens and Kevin Williams who have lost a step, not sure that's going to work out.

Well now we can agree on something. You're taking an incredibly high amount of risk for a player like RG3 (the most recent example of the kind of prospect you could get) and I don't see that kind of QB playing 20 years, he didn't even last one before severely damaging his career.

If we could have traded players for Luck then sure do that of course, as long as you keep your draft picks but I don't see anyway the Colts agree to that! This isn't Madden where you just screw the other team over and they agree. Plus there is absolutely zero from what I can tell that the Colts would even be willing to trade the #1 pick. Turns out everyone want's an elite QB or the chance to take one...

I did some checking and found out the the average career for an NFL QB is 6.6 years. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_a ... k?#slide=4

[Purple bruise]

Fiesta said,
"No, I think it still depends. Most franchises would take 5 bad years for Brady or Peyton (both of whom have already played considerably more than 10 years by the way). I'm not sure how you decided that QBs today only play for 10 years. 20 years will be closer to the average to an elite pocket passer. "



I did some checking and found out the the average career for an NFL QB is 6.6 years. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_a ... k?#slide=4[/quote]

This is not relevant to anything.[/quote][/quote]

Not relevent but you were saying that the average career for a QB was about 20 years right. I am telling you that you were a little off by 14 years

[mondry]

Not relevent but you were saying that the average career for a QB was about 20 years right. I am telling you that you were a little off by 14 years

The discussion is around elite QB's who for all intents and purposes will be playing until the wheels literally fall off or have a rare career ending injury. My point is I think that's probably about 13-16 years on average, rather than the 20. Though I'm not too concerned about that number being right or not!

The average QB can flame out in 6 years because that's typically how it goes for most QB's. You get 3 years like Ponder, then bounce around the league as a journey man for another 3 years and call it a career. Of course some play less and others stay on as back ups for quite some time longer but that's the idea of the average. So overall you're right PB, we're just talking about elite QB's.

[Purple bruise]

Wrong. Not what I said. read again.

"No, I think it still depends. Most franchises would take 5 bad years for Brady or Peyton (both of whom have already played considerably more than 10 years by the way). I'm not sure how you decided that QBs today only play for 10 years. 20 years will be closer to the average to an elite pocket passer."

Guess I missed something. You are saying that elite pocket passing QBs have a 20 year life span right? Not many do.

[Purple bruise]

Guess I missed something. You are saying that elite pocket passing QBs have a 20 year life span right? Not many do.[/quote]

sorry, I just reread my comments. Didn't mean to come across as a jerk. I'm having a tough day! Hope you don't mind.

Yes, I am talking about the Peyton Mannings, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Bradys, Drew Brees type ELITE QBS. We are in a new era so there is really no precedent but I don't see any reason these guys can't play into their 40s if they wish to, since they aren't allowed to be hit high, hit low, hit too forcefully or driven into the ground, etc etc.[/quote]

Hey no problem

[FrostyViking]

Why not look at a wide receiver? This draft has a solid group of WR's in it. Sammy Watkins from Clemson would be an excellent compliment to Patterson. I also like Mike Evans from Texas A&M. Marqise Lee from USC is a play maker. Also like Odell Beckham Jr. (LSU), Kelvin Benjamin (Florida State), Jordan Matthews (Vanderbilt), and Martavis Bryant (Clemson).


We have built a pretty solid group of TE's. We started with drafting Patterson last year, so we need to target one of these guys as a compliment to him. Maybe look at Tajh Boyd or Aaron Murray in the 3rd or 4th round.

[Purple bruise]

Why not look at a wide receiver? This draft has a solid group of WR's in it. Sammy Watkins from Clemson would be an excellent compliment to Patterson. I also like Mike Evans from Texas A&M. Marqise Lee from USC is a play maker. Also like Odell Beckham Jr. (LSU), Kelvin Benjamin (Florida State), Jordan Matthews (Vanderbilt), and Martavis Bryant (Clemson).


We have built a pretty solid group of TE's. We started with drafting Patterson last year, so we need to target one of these guys as a compliment to him. Maybe look at Tajh Boyd or Aaron Murray in the 3rd or 4th round.

I would think that a wide receiver would be the last thing needed on a team that needs soooo much help on the defense and already has a fairly good corp of receivers.

[FrostyViking]

I think we are better defensively then we showed this year. What we need defensively is interior defensive lineman in my opinion and the DT position is pretty shallow this year. Louis Nix would be ok but he is ranked 26th overall. That would be a reach with the 8th pick. If we do go defense, Khalil Mack could be our best bet. Of course, everything could change when the combine gets here and these athletes get to showcase their abilities.

[FrostyViking]

I think we are better defensively then we showed this year. What we need defensively is interior defensive lineman in my opinion and the DT position is pretty shallow this year. Louis Nix would be ok but he is ranked 26th overall. That would be a reach with the 8th pick. If we do go defense, Khalil Mack could be our best bet. Of course, everything could change when the combine gets here and these athletes get to showcase their abilities.