Is the unthinkable now a posibility
Moderator: Moderators
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
I don't buy the whole "breaking down at 30" comparison. I don't care if it happened to other RB's, show me someone who ran for 2K after destroying a knee otherwise these other players are not comparable.
-
PurpleKoolaid
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 8641
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pm
- x 28
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
No team would even consider 1st round pick(s) or the money he is owed.
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
Exactly, Peterson cannot be gauged like a typical RB (or human). If McGahee can start at 32, then Peterson could still be the best back in the game at 32. Furthermore, you don't trade ANY proven talent, for potential talent (especially once in a lifetime talent), bad business. Logic aside though, Having a player/man like AP on your team sometimes transcends the actual game itself. I might need some therapy if we ever trade him. If victory was my only concern I'd be a patriots fan.S197 wrote:I don't buy the whole "breaking down at 30" comparison. I don't care if it happened to other RB's, show me someone who ran for 2K after destroying a knee otherwise these other players are not comparable.
-
Funkytown
- Hall of Fame Inductee
- Posts: 4044
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:26 pm
- Location: Northeast, Iowa
- x 1
- Contact:
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
Superman wrote: Furthermore, you don't trade ANY proven talent, for potential talent (especially once in a lifetime talent), bad business.
-
Funkytown
- Hall of Fame Inductee
- Posts: 4044
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:26 pm
- Location: Northeast, Iowa
- x 1
- Contact:
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
A great response to this nonsense:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... n-peterson
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... n-peterson
1. This trade will never, ever happen. Let's just get that out of the way.
--
6. I've spent too much time on this silly idea. See point No. 1.
-
PurpleMustReign
- Starting Wide Receiver
- Posts: 19150
- Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
- Location: Crystal, MN
- x 114
- Contact:
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
There are now, and have been, multiple threads about this already.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." #SKOL2018
-
PurpleHalo
- All Pro Elite Player
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:28 am
- Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
He is still human, and after 2,000 carries he will break down soon. I think the fact he has blown a knee despite recovering as well as he did, offers a chance to break down sooner rather than later.S197 wrote:I don't buy the whole "breaking down at 30" comparison. I don't care if it happened to other RB's, show me someone who ran for 2K after destroying a knee otherwise these other players are not comparable.
This space available for rent.
-
dead_poet
- Commissioner
- Posts: 24788
- Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:30 pm
- Location: Des Moines, Iowa
- x 108
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
Greg sums up my feelings on the matter nicely. Good find.MelanieMFunk wrote:A great response to this nonsense:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... n-peterson
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
Re: trade A.P.......w.t.f?????????????
Good Article - Thanks for posting...MelanieMFunk wrote:A great response to this nonsense:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... n-peterson
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!
-
Funkytown
- Hall of Fame Inductee
- Posts: 4044
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:26 pm
- Location: Northeast, Iowa
- x 1
- Contact:
Re: Is the unthinkable now a posibility
Allen says Peterson isn't going anywhere--and Minnesota might revolt if he does.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... g-anywhere
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... g-anywhere
Re: Is the unthinkable now a posibility
You don't get value. Period. For an owner he's money in the bank. #### in the seats. Jersey sales out the wazoo. He's also the only thing keeping this team watchable.
It'd probably be better in the long run to move him as far as on the field. But there's more than just on the field. And even on the field...trading him for picks and rolling the dice could end up giving you a QB who flames out and Toby Gerhart level talent in the backfield.
You just can't do it. This isn't 20 years ago. No team is as dumb as the Vikings. You're not going to get enough to warrant it. or the guarantee of a QB of sufficient talent to make you competitive soon enough.
if that idiot jerry jones will ruin his franchise getting him, fine. But while it shouldn't be off the table, the return should be high enough it should be pretty close.
It'd probably be better in the long run to move him as far as on the field. But there's more than just on the field. And even on the field...trading him for picks and rolling the dice could end up giving you a QB who flames out and Toby Gerhart level talent in the backfield.
You just can't do it. This isn't 20 years ago. No team is as dumb as the Vikings. You're not going to get enough to warrant it. or the guarantee of a QB of sufficient talent to make you competitive soon enough.
if that idiot jerry jones will ruin his franchise getting him, fine. But while it shouldn't be off the table, the return should be high enough it should be pretty close.
-
VikingHoard
- Backup
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:26 pm
Re: Is the unthinkable now a posibility
Has anyone but me yet realised that what's being discussed here is only half of a trade?
It's like discussing whether it's worth it to trade $500 for that thing. Until I know what "that thing" is, I'm not going to know whether it's worth it or not. Such is the case here. At the moment, the trade being considered looks like this...
Vikings get _____ in exchange for Peterson; would that be a good deal?
Those who are in favor of the trade may have visions of that blank being filled in with "the Green Bay Packers" or some such thing. Those opposed to it may be envisioning a few draft picks which end up not panning out. In either case, I don't know what's in the blank, so I don't claim to be able to tell if it would be a good deal or not, (in spite of how emotionally sure others may be that it would be terrible/brilliant, even to the point of encouraging others towards violence against the contrary opinion).
After many threads and several pages of posts, a few posters managed to actually discuss, (albeit briefly) what might go in the blank. For some reason, all of the ones who did believed that they personally knew approximately the value of what would go there. I'm a little suprised the threads never took the route of a debate as to whose psychic football prediction powers were better, so I guess I have to give those posters kudos for that. Still, the only explanation I've seen offered for how anyone knew what would be in the blank, (which was repeated a few times, in slightly different wording) went...
"Peterson will not be offered what he is worth, because in today's NFL even an MVP runningback isn't worth that much."
...which is logically invalid, and I'll demonstrate why. The term "that much" at the end of the argument refers back to what Peterson is worth. The rules of logic allow for a substitution of equivalent items, (in fact, it encourages this to avoid ambiguity), and so the argument should be re-written with that substitution made. For the same reason, we should substitute Peterson for the equivalent term "an MVP runningback". Doing so gives us the following logically equivalent argument.
"Peterson will not be offered what he is worth, because in today's NFL even Peterson isn't worth what Peterson is worth."
So, whatever Peterson is actually worth, this argument is self-contradictary. If Peterson is worth X, the Peterson cannot also NOT be worth X.
Which brings me to the conclusion of this post that you've probably found to be too long, just maybe a little insightful, and probably slightly insulting, (for which I apologize). At this point, arguing over whether trading Peterson without knowing what he'd be traded for might seem a bit pointless, especially if I've convinced you that it's absurd to even have an opinion either way. Perhaps a better direction for continued discussion about trading Peterson would be to look at the other side of the equation and ask, just what would it be worth it to trade him for? If you were GM, where would you draw the line between yay and nay on a deal?
It's like discussing whether it's worth it to trade $500 for that thing. Until I know what "that thing" is, I'm not going to know whether it's worth it or not. Such is the case here. At the moment, the trade being considered looks like this...
Vikings get _____ in exchange for Peterson; would that be a good deal?
Those who are in favor of the trade may have visions of that blank being filled in with "the Green Bay Packers" or some such thing. Those opposed to it may be envisioning a few draft picks which end up not panning out. In either case, I don't know what's in the blank, so I don't claim to be able to tell if it would be a good deal or not, (in spite of how emotionally sure others may be that it would be terrible/brilliant, even to the point of encouraging others towards violence against the contrary opinion).
After many threads and several pages of posts, a few posters managed to actually discuss, (albeit briefly) what might go in the blank. For some reason, all of the ones who did believed that they personally knew approximately the value of what would go there. I'm a little suprised the threads never took the route of a debate as to whose psychic football prediction powers were better, so I guess I have to give those posters kudos for that. Still, the only explanation I've seen offered for how anyone knew what would be in the blank, (which was repeated a few times, in slightly different wording) went...
"Peterson will not be offered what he is worth, because in today's NFL even an MVP runningback isn't worth that much."
...which is logically invalid, and I'll demonstrate why. The term "that much" at the end of the argument refers back to what Peterson is worth. The rules of logic allow for a substitution of equivalent items, (in fact, it encourages this to avoid ambiguity), and so the argument should be re-written with that substitution made. For the same reason, we should substitute Peterson for the equivalent term "an MVP runningback". Doing so gives us the following logically equivalent argument.
"Peterson will not be offered what he is worth, because in today's NFL even Peterson isn't worth what Peterson is worth."
So, whatever Peterson is actually worth, this argument is self-contradictary. If Peterson is worth X, the Peterson cannot also NOT be worth X.
Which brings me to the conclusion of this post that you've probably found to be too long, just maybe a little insightful, and probably slightly insulting, (for which I apologize). At this point, arguing over whether trading Peterson without knowing what he'd be traded for might seem a bit pointless, especially if I've convinced you that it's absurd to even have an opinion either way. Perhaps a better direction for continued discussion about trading Peterson would be to look at the other side of the equation and ask, just what would it be worth it to trade him for? If you were GM, where would you draw the line between yay and nay on a deal?
This signature predicted the great 2014 - 2025 Vikings dynasty!
Re: Is the unthinkable now a posibility
Not. Going. To. Happen.
And if I were in charge, I wouldn't, either. This team has been in the midst of rebuilding -- despite last year's playoff run. Except for a few players, this is a young team. Unless you can count on the type of draft that Jimmy Johnson had after the Hershel trade (and the two other drafts after that -- and the coaching job Johnson did) there's no way I trade AD. And, the way things can turn around in today's NFL, you can't say for certain that the Vikings won't contend next year or the year after that. And if you do say that for certain, you're merely being a true Vikings fan.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
And if I were in charge, I wouldn't, either. This team has been in the midst of rebuilding -- despite last year's playoff run. Except for a few players, this is a young team. Unless you can count on the type of draft that Jimmy Johnson had after the Hershel trade (and the two other drafts after that -- and the coaching job Johnson did) there's no way I trade AD. And, the way things can turn around in today's NFL, you can't say for certain that the Vikings won't contend next year or the year after that. And if you do say that for certain, you're merely being a true Vikings fan.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
"Meet at the quarterback"
Re: Is the unthinkable now a posibility
Well, let's say you could get a late 1st and 3rd rounder for an injury prone, some what diva, slot WR. When it comes to Peterson you'd probably at least double that. So I'd be looking for 2 first round picks, probably a 2nd, and a 3rd out of it. The hardest part about it is that the team trading with you would probably be trying to make a superbowl push so odds are they aren't going to be giving you a top 15 pick, odds are they'd be more like end of the round picks. It just doesn't really make much sense for a team like the raiders who struggle to offer up what it'd take for Peterson.VikingHoard wrote:Perhaps a better direction for continued discussion about trading Peterson would be to look at the other side of the equation and ask, just what would it be worth it to trade him for? If you were GM, where would you draw the line between yay and nay on a deal?
All the real big super stars like Peterson, Megatron, Patrick Willis, Suh, etc go in the first 10 picks for the most part, so what you're really getting in those picks in a best case scenario is a chris cook, Patterson, Harrison Smith, Chad Greenway like player. Obviously the potential varies and you could even get a bust.
With that said, two firsts, a second, and a third just doesn't seem like enough for a guy like Peterson, not if they're that late.
Instead it might make more sense to try and get a some what established player in the deal. If you could get someone like luke kuechly from Carolina, a young up and comer at MLB and then a couple picks that would make me feel a lot better. You get a solid young player to help out the defense and a couple picks to play around with.
Re: Is the unthinkable now a posibility
I don't see us moving AP. I don't think you'd get the proper value for him. This league doesn't care about big name RB FA's.
The thing about AP is, he'll be a quality RB for as long as he wants to keep playing. The key though is this team needs to move away from the offense being based around AP. They need to focus and make this a passing offense, that just so happens to have an all time great RB in the backfield. As AP gets older, so long as we aren't trying to make him carry the load every week, would still be incredibly productive for years to come. AP at 32 with a real passing offense would still be a monster. This team could do with a dose of speed/pass catching change of pace back as well.
The thing about AP is, he'll be a quality RB for as long as he wants to keep playing. The key though is this team needs to move away from the offense being based around AP. They need to focus and make this a passing offense, that just so happens to have an all time great RB in the backfield. As AP gets older, so long as we aren't trying to make him carry the load every week, would still be incredibly productive for years to come. AP at 32 with a real passing offense would still be a monster. This team could do with a dose of speed/pass catching change of pace back as well.