If healthy, who should start from here on out?

[Mothman]

The second part of your post sums it up for me.
Thoug I'm not worried about the team as much as I am the state of VMB if Cassel can't keep up.

The extremes are difficult to navigate for some...and I am one of those.
I hope the Vikes can turn up their play and have a solid season. If not I'll be here to try and keep posters from going postal, or punching cats.

There's a lot of anguish in Vikingland due to how the QB situation has been mishandled for so long....seems like of of of steam is being blown off as a result.

It seems funny to me......the QB and all the noise. Fans being fans.

I will lol if Fraizer starts Ponder....it would be nuts in here ~

It would be nuts anyway. Starting Ponder in the next game would be like ceding home field advantage to the Panthers.

[The Breeze]

It would be nuts anyway. Starting Ponder in the next game would be like ceding home field advantage to the Panthers.

lol
I view it as a tough game and bad matchup for our defense. Newton isn't any easier to bring down than Big Ben IMO.....and the Panthers aren't the Steelers.
I hate bye weeks ~



edit to add: who isn't a bad matchup for our D right now? J-ville?

[Mothman]

lol
I view it as a tough game and bad matchup for our defense. Newton isn't any easier to bring down than Big Ben IMO.....and the Panthers aren't the Steelers.
I hate bye weeks ~

edit to add: who isn't a bad matchup for our D right now? J-ville?

Maybe... but I wouldn't count on it.

I hate bye weeks too but hopefully, this one will allow Cook and Sanford to heal, give the Vikes some time to figure out what, if anything, they can do to improve their defense and allow them time to sort out what the heck they'll be doing at QB for the rest of the season.

I see the Panthers as a very bad matchup for our defense. I shudder to think of what Newton might do against them.

[The Breeze]

Maybe... but I wouldn't count on it.

I hate bye weeks too but hopefully, this one will allow Cook and Sanford to heal, give the Vikes some time to figure out what, if anything, they can do to improve their defense and allow them time to sort out what the heck they'll be doing at QB for the rest of the season.

I see the Panthers as a very bad matchup for our defense. I shudder to think of what Newton might do against them.

Agreed.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

Maybe... but I wouldn't count on it.

I hate bye weeks too but hopefully, this one will allow Cook and Sanford to heal, give the Vikes some time to figure out what, if anything, they can do to improve their defense and allow them time to sort out what the heck they'll be doing at QB for the rest of the season.

I see the Panthers as a very bad matchup for our defense. I shudder to think of what Newton might do against them.

The biggest match up problems will be Cam himself, Greg Olsen, and Steve Smith (who always plays well against us). Carolina's offensive line is pretty bad outside of Ryan Kalil. I can see us generating at least 3 sacks against Carolina.

What will be more interesting is how our offense stacks up. Carolina's front seven may be the best in the NFL. Surprisingly, their pass defense hasn't been god awful either despite the lack of talent. I hope Cassel is the QB, because Ponder isn't going to be able to exploit in the seven in the box look we are going to get.

[psjordan]

[there seems to be a perception out there that I'm a big Ponder fan

So, you're saying you're a big Ponder fan then?
Ha! "Big Ponder". Sounds like a new sandwich at Long John Silvers.

No arguments from me. But if you are not excited about Cassel because he is a stopgap to the next QB, well my friend, here's the insidious part. At least Cassel is generally acknowledged as an "older, veteran, short-contract" stopgap. The kind coaches and salary caps can deal with until the Next Guy arrives.

OTOH and IMO, players like Ponder are the drainers of team lifeblood. Youth + contract + draft position = chance after chance after chance to prove worth. That is the part that has me less than excited.

There is not a great solution for us at QB in the short term, and I am not calling for Ponder's head on a stick. We really can't bench him permanently or release him, and trading him would result in squat for return. Honestly I don't have huge issues with our coaching staff but can't help but think Ponder would have been much better off with a different staff.

Ponder has had some nice games. But so did Danny Wuerffel and Matt Leinart. Rex Grossman and J.P. Losman. David Carr and Joey Harrington. Tim Couch and Cade McNown. Rick Mirer and Heath Shuler. I think it is reasonable to let the thought start to creep in that Ponder belongs on that list.

[Delaqure]

You've basically got it right. In fact, I'd say Cassel had a good game against a terrible opponent but even though It's exciting to see the Vikes win and I was happy to see a more confident QB performance, I don't think it was anything special and I'm reluctant to read too much into one good game against a team that could turn out to be one of the worst in the NFL. To me, the biggest single difference in this game was the Vikes took care of the football. However, since they avoided turnovers against a team that hasn't forced any at all this year, I don't know how to read that information. There were still good opportunities for the Steelers to get turnovers so was this a step forward for the Vikes or did they just face an opponent who couldn't capitalize on their mistakes? Maybe it's both. I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions because I've seen how bad Cassel can be, I've seen how bad the Steelers are this year and the Vikes defense ended up in almost the same situation at the end of this game as they were in near the end of the previous two. Thankfully, they made a play to seal the win this time but nothing about this game, including Cassel's performance, convinced me this troubled 2013 Vikes team turned a corner. I'm worried that all we saw was a win over one of the opponents they could actually beat.

Jim I really enjoy your posts and you so often say what I want to say and say it better than I do. I was with you on Ponder. I thought he showed enough to be given the chance this year to start. However he hasn't shown any noticeable improvement over last year and that is my biggest concern with him. With a better receiving corps he still often does not get them the ball like he should. Cassel despite playing fewer downs and taking fewer reps with our receivers did much better than Ponder has.

That being said, I whole heartedly agree with you once again regarding the reasons he may have played better. I don't think I realized just how bad the Steelers defense was. I get the excitement over us winning a game. It feels good, no matter who we play, but I have tempered my excitement with the realization that we played another 0-3 team. Cassel played very well, but he played very well against a 0-3 Steeler team with a defense that is not at all what it once was. Cassel's real test did not happen Sunday. His real test is to come.

I do think Cassel with his play Sunday deserves the nod for the next game. Especially with the fact that Ponder is hurt. A broken rib is nothing to sneeze at and there is no way I can believe he will be ready to play against the Panthers. He won't be healed up enough to play and a few hits could easily damage him further. Whether Cassel will play well remains to be seen. Pittsburgh only has 4 sacks this year and Carolina has 10. So they put a lot more pressure on the QB than Pittsburgh. Carolina has allowed 25 more yards per game than Pittsburgh, but that is not a noticeable difference imo. Carolina has only allowed 12 pts per game and Pittsburgh has allowed 27, so a huge difference there. So like I said, Cassel's true value has yet to be determined. But I do hope at this point he gets the nod vs Carolina. I really want to see how he performs against a quality defense.

[J. Kapp 11]

Thoug I'm not worried about the team as much as I am the state of VMB if Cassel can't keep up.

The extremes are difficult to navigate for some...and I am one of those.

I'm not sure how to respond to this.

What exactly do you expect from a passionate fan base that loves the Vikings and wants desperately for the team to be relevant in championship conversations? Extreme? Sure. That's why the word "fan" is derived from "fanatical."

And I'm sorry, but just because I think Matt Cassel is a better quarterback than Christian Ponder and dare to express it in a thread that ASKS me to compare the two -- that doesn't make me fringe or extreme. Neither does disagreeing with each other.

And last I checked, nobody here is calling each other names or threatening violence. It's called lively debate, folks. Buck up.


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[Just Me]

...Cassel had a good game against a terrible opponent but even though It's exciting to see the Vikes win and I was happy to see a more confident QB performance, I don't think it was anything special and I'm reluctant to read too much into one good game against a team that could turn out to be one of the worst in the NFL.

I posted it before, but I'll re-post it again:

Passer Rating - 123.4
Rushing 140 yards (6.1 ypc)
0 Turnovers

And we still nearly go to overtime against a winless opponent. I too, have a measure reluctance to believe that this is the beginning of a "winning streak." I don't expect this kind of offensive performance every week (who could?), and yet it seems we almost need to have similar performances to be "in" games. Hopefully I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't feel that way...

[Mothman]

Ponder has had some nice games. But so did Danny Wuerffel and Matt Leinart. Rex Grossman and J.P. Losman. David Carr and Joey Harrington. Tim Couch and Cade McNown. Rick Mirer and Heath Shuler. I think it is reasonable to let the thought start to creep in that Ponder belongs on that list.

Oh, I agree and I've been telling Craig and several other friends for weeks that I think Ponder is basically Rex Grossman. He's a nice guy who seems to try hard and and he can occasionally look like a sharp NFL QB but in the end, something's missing and it doesn't look like it's going to work out for him as an NFL starter.

Sorry I snipped your post but I know exactly what you mean about the difference between a short term veteran stopgap like Cassel and one of those young QBs that gets chance after chance after chance to prove their worth. Ponder's had his chance. It's over and I hope the Vikes recognize that.

[Mothman]

Jim I really enjoy your posts and you so often say what I want to say and say it better than I do. I was with you on Ponder. I thought he showed enough to be given the chance this year to start. However he hasn't shown any noticeable improvement over last year and that is my biggest concern with him. With a better receiving corps he still often does not get them the ball like he should. Cassel despite playing fewer downs and taking fewer reps with our receivers did much better than Ponder has.

That being said, I whole heartedly agree with you once again regarding the reasons he may have played better. I don't think I realized just how bad the Steelers defense was. I get the excitement over us winning a game. It feels good, no matter who we play, but I have tempered my excitement with the realization that we played another 0-3 team. Cassel played very well, but he played very well against a 0-3 Steeler team with a defense that is not at all what it once was. Cassel's real test did not happen Sunday. His real test is to come.

I agree and he deserves the chance to face that test. People aren't wrong about Cassel passing the eye test. He looked better than Ponder and I wouldn't be all that surprised if Ponder proves capable of stepping in and giving a similar performance for some team a few years down the line. If he stays in the league (and I think he will), I suspect his destiny is to be a journeyman backup.

Thanks for the kind words and the thoughtful post.

[Mothman]

I posted it before, but I'll re-post it again:

Passer Rating - 123.4
Rushing 140 yards (6.1 ypc)
0 Turnovers

And we still nearly go to overtime against a winless opponent. I too, have a measure reluctance to believe that this is the beginning of a "winning streak." I don't expect this kind of offensive performance every week (who could?), and yet it seems we almost need to have similar performances to be "in" games. Hopefully I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't feel that way...

Only 3 teams have allowed more yards than the Vikings defense and only 3 teams have allowed more points than the Vikes. I keep having flashbacks to 2011.

[mansquatch]

I posted it before, but I'll re-post it again:

Passer Rating - 123.4
Rushing 140 yards (6.1 ypc)
0 Turnovers

And we still nearly go to overtime against a winless opponent. I too, have a measure reluctance to believe that this is the beginning of a "winning streak." I don't expect this kind of offensive performance every week (who could?), and yet it seems we almost need to have similar performances to be "in" games. Hopefully I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't feel that way...

Yeah, this is exactly where I'm at. The QB stuff is a concern but it is going to be irrelevant if our Defense keeps acting like the 2011 unit instead the 2012 version.

[Just Me]

I've been hearing a lot of comments that this win doesn't mean much because it was against the Steelers.

I have to question if the Steelers were really that bad. Coming into the game, their defense was ranked 5th in the league. Against CHI, they held Cutler to 159yds and forte to under 100. Same with Locker and Chris Johnson vs TENN. Dalton did torched them for 280, but 280 seems low compared to what the Vikings are giving up. So they're not the typical Steelers D, but they're they're still better than half the league. Problem for them has been turnovers.

On the road, against a desperate team and a dangerous QB, the Vikings were able to control almost the entire game with very little mistakes or errors. I know the steelers almost tied it in the end, but they didn't.

For a season that has been riddled with blunders from every phase, it was nice to see the Vikings have a relatively clean, crisp game.

I was encouraged by the win. I was discouraged (forget the 0-4 aspect of the opposing team) by the fact that I don't see our offense getting much more dominate than it was, and I'm still biting my nails in the last 2 minutes...

[purpletinted66]

Mostly it's the eye test (sorry to sound like a broken record). Christian Ponder looks like a defeated man half the time. The difference in leadership is palpable, at least to me.

well short of wishing it upon him to be thunderstruck or devastated, i hope he can be encouraged while standing as a backup (assuming the coaches were sober while they invested so much into his preparations as a starter to begin with), while remaining attentive in the developments of our games. but i do not hope against hope for a purple dynasty that he redeems himself if it ever comes to pass that he emerges from second string on this team.