Stadium thread

[Rus]

I got to say, Minnesota, and the Cities in particular, really needs the Vikings. Just like they need the Timberwolves, Wild, and Twins.

I left MN when I was 14. That was the inaugural season of the Timberwolves. Before I got into sports back as a kid, in the winter, I would go outside, have some fun, then freeze and go back inside. That would be about an hour or two, maximum. That meant I spent 22-23 hours indoors a day in the winter. In the summer, I'd put up with the humidity and go out and do things, but seriously, it's pretty boring. You can only go to the mall so many times before you turn into a zombie. In Portland, I do the normal thing...go get coffee, talk to a bum, hit a bar, maybe walk around for awhile, do the hiking/dogpark thing, go home. Maybe catch a minor league baseball game. In winter, I can pull out the umbrella, slog over to the light rail, and catch a basketball game.

There's a really good reason Minnesota has 4 sports teams. It keeps people spirits up, keeps them going out and doing things, especially in the winter. Having 3 different teams in the winter gives you the variety that Portlanders here envy. It keeps you getting out without feeling that you have to go to a mall to get social interaction. You can always go fishing or golfing in the summer, I guess. But let's all be honest...it's boring there no matter how warm my childhood memories make me feel sometimes. When people get out, they spend money. When people with money spend money, other people make money, and those people pay taxes and buy food and stuff. Keeps them off the streets, keeps landlords getting rent checks, and keeps the whole machine churning along. I've been back to Minnesota many times, and I know full well that if there weren't sports to motivate me to spend money, I wouldn't do anything other than drink cocktails on the dock out back from my dad's place and buy mosquito repellent. And I wouldn't even do that much in the winter, obviously, global climate change aside. When you hoard money, you starve the system and ultimately, it becomes harder to make more money or make your money worth more.

Anyway, I started following the Minnesota teams when I was a kid, and I don't change my allegiance for anything. Even when the North Stars went away, I stopped following them and became a Wild fan when they started up. I am a fan of Minnesota sports, no matter how much aggravation it gives me sometimes. If they moved the Twins to Portland, I'd feel sick watching their games, but I'd maybe do it. It would be hard for me. But that's not my major motivation. I just feel the teams make Minnesota a richer place, a place to be envied in the Upper Midwest, something that sets that area apart from the surrounding regions (and may be part of the reason why you've got a strong corporate/industrial culture there...and a lower unemployment rate than we've got here in Portland). The arts and resorts are one thing, but the teams really slam it home. The mall is basically a place you go when you're waiting for a game to start.

If keeping the Vikings means building them a darn stadium, your politicians should find a way to make it happen, one way or another, and even if it means a little tax hike somewhere, it's better than having a city that comes to an absolute standstill every Sunday for several months. Just make sure they don't make you build a place then go and leave. I don't think the league really wants to see the Vikings in LA. Vikings/Packer games are proven ratings machines for the NFL. Even here in Portland, these people all have Vikings and Packers jerseys stowed away that they pull out for those matchups. We don't even have an NFL team, and most of us are Raiders/Seahawks/Broncos fans. But for those matchups, we become Viking and Packer fans in the sports bars around town. That's something that the league can't ignore, and that would probably go away if the Vikings were moved to another division. I wished the Metrodome could be remodeled and they'd be fine with it, but apparently that's just not going to work. People just need to accept that the Metrodome wasn't well designed to begin with and move on.

[dead_poet]

Vikings stadium on hold for another year

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... other-year

[Eli]

Vikings stadium on hold for another year

Oh, wow. Now there's a huge surprise. It's not going to happen, folks. May as well face it now.

How do you think Zygi will pull the trigger? Will he hold a well orchestrated press conference or will he quietly load up the moving vans one night?

[bigskyeric]

I got to say, Minnesota, and the Cities in particular, really needs the Vikings. Just like they need the Timberwolves, Wild, and Twins.

I left MN when I was 14. That was the inaugural season of the Timberwolves. Before I got into sports back as a kid, in the winter, I would go outside, have some fun, then freeze and go back inside. That would be about an hour or two, maximum. That meant I spent 22-23 hours indoors a day in the winter. In the summer, I'd put up with the humidity and go out and do things, but seriously, it's pretty boring. You can only go to the mall so many times before you turn into a zombie. In Portland, I do the normal thing...go get coffee, talk to a bum, hit a bar, maybe walk around for awhile, do the hiking/dogpark thing, go home. Maybe catch a minor league baseball game. In winter, I can pull out the umbrella, slog over to the light rail, and catch a basketball game.

There's a really good reason Minnesota has 4 sports teams. It keeps people spirits up, keeps them going out and doing things, especially in the winter. Having 3 different teams in the winter gives you the variety that Portlanders here envy. It keeps you getting out without feeling that you have to go to a mall to get social interaction. You can always go fishing or golfing in the summer, I guess. But let's all be honest...it's boring there no matter how warm my childhood memories make me feel sometimes. When people get out, they spend money. When people with money spend money, other people make money, and those people pay taxes and buy food and stuff. Keeps them off the streets, keeps landlords getting rent checks, and keeps the whole machine churning along. I've been back to Minnesota many times, and I know full well that if there weren't sports to motivate me to spend money, I wouldn't do anything other than drink cocktails on the dock out back from my dad's place and buy mosquito repellent. And I wouldn't even do that much in the winter, obviously, global climate change aside. When you hoard money, you starve the system and ultimately, it becomes harder to make more money or make your money worth more.

Anyway, I started following the Minnesota teams when I was a kid, and I don't change my allegiance for anything. Even when the North Stars went away, I stopped following them and became a Wild fan when they started up. I am a fan of Minnesota sports, no matter how much aggravation it gives me sometimes. If they moved the Twins to Portland, I'd feel sick watching their games, but I'd maybe do it. It would be hard for me. But that's not my major motivation. I just feel the teams make Minnesota a richer place, a place to be envied in the Upper Midwest, something that sets that area apart from the surrounding regions (and may be part of the reason why you've got a strong corporate/industrial culture there...and a lower unemployment rate than we've got here in Portland). The arts and resorts are one thing, but the teams really slam it home. The mall is basically a place you go when you're waiting for a game to start.

If keeping the Vikings means building them a darn stadium, your politicians should find a way to make it happen, one way or another, and even if it means a little tax hike somewhere, it's better than having a city that comes to an absolute standstill every Sunday for several months. Just make sure they don't make you build a place then go and leave. I don't think the league really wants to see the Vikings in LA. Vikings/Packer games are proven ratings machines for the NFL. Even here in Portland, these people all have Vikings and Packers jerseys stowed away that they pull out for those matchups. We don't even have an NFL team, and most of us are Raiders/Seahawks/Broncos fans. But for those matchups, we become Viking and Packer fans in the sports bars around town. That's something that the league can't ignore, and that would probably go away if the Vikings were moved to another division. I wished the Metrodome could be remodeled and they'd be fine with it, but apparently that's just not going to work. People just need to accept that the Metrodome wasn't well designed to begin with and move on.

Well put! I live in Montana, and Vikings fans outnumber every other teams fans by at least 2-1 in our little ski resort. With the Steelers being second. All of your points are valid (except I find Minnesota to be a fun place year round if you are into the outdoors...skiing, fishing, paddling, biking, boating, water skiing, camping, even surfing if you live in duluth.) But the sad truth is teams move. The Colts, Rams, Cardinals, and Browns all in somewhat recent years. One of the things we have going for us is the fact LA is a horrible NFL city. They have had the Chargers, Rams, and Raiders and couldn't keep any of them. They even had the biggest stadium (LA Coliseum held 100,000 people for football Long before Jerry's Palace in Dallas) I see the Jags or the Chargers moving before we do, but Minne has a legacy of losing teams. Either way, we have one more year to make our points valid. And write to our local politicians to get our point across. I find it funny that even Atlanta wants a new stadium!! How old is their Dome? 20 years? It's beautiful, and they will probably get a new one before we do. Anyways Rus, you write well, and should focus some of your time writing to Minnesota politicians, and newspapers. Even the NFL if you can find a way. Skol!

[glg]

Oh, wow. Now there's a huge surprise. It's not going to happen, folks. May as well face it now.

How do you think Zygi will pull the trigger? Will he hold a well orchestrated press conference or will he quietly load up the moving vans one night?

It's hardly over. There are still 2 more seasons left. Don't even try to tell me that if a deal gets done next year that the Vikes won't play one more year in the Dome or in TCF. This "2 years left, 2 years to build a stadium" business was always a ploy. Next year being a non-election year is a better shot. Last year would have been great, but then the economy had to go and tank.

[Eli]

It's hardly over. There are still 2 more seasons left. Don't even try to tell me that if a deal gets done next year that the Vikes won't play one more year in the Dome or in TCF. This "2 years left, 2 years to build a stadium" business was always a ploy. Next year being a non-election year is a better shot. Last year would have been great, but then the economy had to go and tank.

Which would be worse for a politician in Minnesota - being responsible for the Vikings moving out of state or not being pinhole tight with state funds?

So what you're saying is that there's no sense of urgency as long as the Vikings have a couple years on the lease. I wonder if the price tag will be up to $1.5 billion by the time the good folks of Minnesota figure out that the team _will_ move without a new stadium?

[glg]

So what you're saying is that there's no sense of urgency as long as the Vikings have a couple years on the lease.

Pretty much. I think you have three camps of legislators, those who want to get it done and are working for it, those who don't and are working against it, and those who aren't sure. The third camp isn't feeling the urgency yet.

The reality is like I said, although the Vikes have tried to portray things as that a deal had to get done this year so that a stadium would be ready by Sept 2012, reality is that if a deal gets done next year, they'll happily take it and play that extra year in the Dome or TCF.

[PurpleMustReign]

Pretty much. I think you have three camps of legislators, those who want to get it done and are working for it, those who don't and are working against it, and those who aren't sure. The third camp isn't feeling the urgency yet.

The reality is like I said, although the Vikes have tried to portray things as that a deal had to get done this year so that a stadium would be ready by Sept 2012, reality is that if a deal gets done next year, they'll happily take it and play that extra year in the Dome or TCF.

Probably the Dome unless they expand TCF. I can't believe they woule be ok with playing in front of 45,000 rather than 63,000. But I do agree with you Geoff, if it gets done next year, or even the year after, they will play in the Dome or TCF as needed.

[dead_poet]

Vikings issue not so subtle statement
Posted by Judd Zulgad

The Vikings issued a very interesting statement on Tuesday afternoon about the fact the Governor and State Legislature failed to move the stadium issue forward during this year's session. The last line of the four paragraph statement is the most interesting, especially since the team's lease at the Metrodome expires after the 2011 season.

Here it is:
"The Minnesota Vikings want to thank the tens of thousands of Vikings fans for their tremendous support for a new stadium. We appreciate the army of fans who stand with us at this watershed moment for the future of the franchise in Minnesota.

"The Vikings organization is extremely disappointed that the Governor and State Legislature did not move the stadium issue forward this year. While we greatly respect the challenges and priorities faced by the State of Minnesota, resolution of this issue has now been pushed to the final year of the lease. This lack of action will only increase the costs of the project for everyone, plus we missed the opportunity to put thousands of Minnesotans back to work.

"The Vikings and the NFL have made significant commitments to this market -- commitments that cannot be sustained at the Metrodome. In 2006, the Vikings were asked by Governor Pawlenty and State leaders to step back and allow the Twins and Gophers stadium issues to be resolved. Those State leaders committed to work with the team to resolve this issue. More than four years later, those commitments have not been honored.

"We appeal to our State’s leaders to join the bi-partisan group of legislators who have stepped up to work on securing the long-term future of the Vikings in Minnesota. This group of leaders has acknowledged that having an NFL team in Minnesota requires a stadium solution. This solution must be finalized in the 2011 Session."

http://www.startribune.com/blogs/Access ... cQ_8ciaXUU

[DavidKarki]

Probably the Dome unless they expand TCF. I can't believe they woule be ok with playing in front of 45,000 rather than 63,000. But I do agree with you Geoff, if it gets done next year, or even the year after, they will play in the Dome or TCF as needed.

It would/should be TCF. The plan all along was for 1 year in the Dome (dodging orange construction cones, as it were), then 2 at TCF. But now that they've delayed so long, and the lease is up and the Twins and Gophers are out, there's no reason for any further delay. Put the Vikings at TCF for 3 years if needed – hopefully, only 2 – and demolish/build like mad at the Dome site the moment the ink dries on the governor's signature on the bill.

You can throw a bone to the season ticket holders willing to skip the TCF years by improving their seats/prices at the new stadium in exchange for it. Although, the TCF bill and blueprints always called for temporary expansion to ~70,000 capacity to accommodate the Vikings by closing the horseshoe with removable grandstands.

Hey, in exchange for being back outside for the first time in 30+ years, I think we all would be quite willing to sit on Lambeau-style benches for two years. )

[ranskal]

It's pretty sad that has gone down to the wire on this issue. There has been stadium talk for YEARS and nothing has gotten done. The Vikings could be marking their 5th year in their new stadium by now!

It's going to be hard to root for another team but it looks inevitable.

I remember thinking "Gosh, if the Cardinals can get a stadium, why can't the Vikes?" Unbelievable!

[headless_norseman]

I know things change, but this is code for an exit.

If the powers that be don't make this happen, then the Vikes are gone. And I honestly never put those chances more than 20% in the past few years.

I honestly think we are at the either/or crossroads right now.

[DavidKarki]

It's pretty sad that has gone down to the wire on this issue. There has been stadium talk for YEARS and nothing has gotten done. The Vikings could be marking their 5th year in their new stadium by now!

The state could have had the Anoka County facility, complete with retractable roof and spacious lots for tailgating, for a mere $200 M (which would have gone toward expanding I-35W for traffic and a part of the roof, from which they'd benefit). An Anoka County sales tax (like Hennepin did for the Twins) and the Vikings/NFL G-3 fund would have covered the rest.

Instead they stupidly refuse, Anoka withdraws the offer, Zygi is forced to go with the Dome site, and now MN will have to shovel three to four times as much money for nowhere near as good a stadium with a fixed roof in a much worse location with little to no tailgating just to keep from losing the team outright. Unconscionable to spend that much more to get that much less...and to lose the leverage you had by waiting so long, simply because nothing exists past the next election day to the average politician.

I hope standing up for the principle of an "ironclad" lease was worth what it's going to cost in the end: yet another insufficient stadium, horrifically overpriced (at least the Dump cost virtually nothing) in a bad location....or not even having the team at all. Way to go, geniuses...

[PsyDanny]

Nice little analysis of the situation:

http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2010/05 ... ium_puzzle

[PurpleMustReign]

I wish we could have a thread where each poster is limited to ONE post about whay they really think about the politicians "effort" for a stadium.
Wouldn't that be fun??