Rick and Zimmer both gone

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CharVike
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by CharVike » Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:49 am

ERIK the PURPLE wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:03 pm
I don’t get all the Cousins hating. We can definitely win with Cousins. How many times did he put us in position to win and our so called defense gave it away? We need to fix the F-ing defense before we unload a productive veteran qb.
Priorities for me:
1. Draft defense!
2. Fix the O-Line!
3. Develop a REAL backup QB.
I don't get it either. People blame the down fall on this team as Cousins fault. What downfall? That total embarrassment in the NFC champ game after a lucky home win. Then the contract. They act like QBs are free. Dal pays Dak big bucks. We will need to spend 30+ million a year for a good one and they don't become available very often. And if they do say good by to at least 3 1st round picks. We save 10 million max. How many top flight players can you get for 10 million. I'll tell you how many zero. Tuney cost the Chiefs 18 million. A top flight edge rusher like Hunter that's 25 million. A top cover CB won't be cheap. We gave Smith a fortune. Sorry but he is done. We gave Barr a fortune who only plays if he's 100%. Think Kirk was 100% every game. We gave this Pierce a ton. It keeps going. Cousins plays behind the worst OL in football. I'd like to see Brady behind this ####. He wouldn't make it through the season. I said it before he's the best since Fran. If they do insert some bum who has a hard time completing a pass JJ won't be happy. IMO Cousins helped JJ. He gets him the ball. He can throw it. The 3 things you put up there are the problems. Give us a top 10 D and an OL like the Bucs or Dallas and we could play some ball. Also let our players play ball. Don't do a Zim/Kub job on offense. Get after teams with your strength. That's not pounding Cook until he drops and can't play. We all seen that one. Ran the guy into the ground. Zim thought he had Riggins back there.
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:41 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:50 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:36 pm

Why? When has keeping a QB of Cousins caliber around ever worked out?

Is that the way you build a championship roster? Or has pretty much every SB team in the modern Era done it differently?

We just got through 4 years of .500 football from this QB, why do you want 4 more? Where are Cousins "top 10" stats benefitting this team?
Based on Cousins play we should have won 11 or more games this year. He can't help Joseph missing easy game winning FGs and the Defense blowing the leads he got us.
There isn't a single 11 win team this season with our scoring efficiency or worse. LV was tied with 2.05 points per drive and they won 10 games.

If the offense scores more points so that we don't need a last minute FG and so that a last minute drive doesn't win it for the other team, we win more games. If the D isn't asked to defend an extra drive or two a game because the offense struggles to remain on the field, going 3 and out more than any team but Miami and Detroit, it isn't worn down and giving up a bunch of late scoring drives.

Cousins did not play good enough to win 11 games. We know this for a fact because we won 8.

When will the excuses for him stop and people realize he is a .500 QB because he is a .500 QB?
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by psjordan » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:43 am

CharVike wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:49 am
ERIK the PURPLE wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:03 pm
I don’t get all the Cousins hating. We can definitely win with Cousins.
I don't get it either. People blame the down fall on this team as Cousins fault. What downfall? That total embarrassment in the NFC champ game after a lucky home win. Then the contract. They act like QBs are free.
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:41 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:50 pm

Based on Cousins play we should have won 11 or more games this year. He can't help Joseph missing easy game winning FGs and the Defense blowing the leads he got us.
There isn't a single 11 win team this season with our scoring efficiency or worse. LV was tied with 2.05 points per drive and they won 10 games.

If the offense scores more points so that we don't need a last minute FG and so that a last minute drive doesn't win it for the other team, we win more games. If the D isn't asked to defend an extra drive or two a game because the offense struggles to remain on the field, going 3 and out more than any team but Miami and Detroit, it isn't worn down and giving up a bunch of late scoring drives.
I'm right in the middle of all of y'all. Any given game or day I could agree with either view above.

But until we eliminate suspect variables - not only coaching, but the playbook, strength training, etc. - I don't think I can 100% judge Cousins.

Only thing leaning me towards YUP HE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE A .500 QB is his career stats against winning teams. WAS wasn't exactly plagued with great minds when Cousins was there, but fact remains his lifetime record against winning teams is what we call suboptimal. Or abysmal, take your choice.

Certainly possible the truth is in the other direction, and his two teams were dysfunctional.

While it's nirvana to have a good-to-great QB on a rookie contract, serviceable QB's are expensive and great QB's - when their contracts are due - are or can be bank-breakers. I don't have any issue with a new staff saying let's eat the last year with Cousins, don't extend him and let's just see what different variables around him will help produce.

If it costs us $45M (and all that implies) to figure out the QB position for a year, it's probably worth it. Especially since 2023 QB class is considered much better than 2022.
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:11 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:41 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:50 pm

Based on Cousins play we should have won 11 or more games this year. He can't help Joseph missing easy game winning FGs and the Defense blowing the leads he got us.
There isn't a single 11 win team this season with our scoring efficiency or worse. LV was tied with 2.05 points per drive and they won 10 games.

If the offense scores more points so that we don't need a last minute FG and so that a last minute drive doesn't win it for the other team, we win more games. If the D isn't asked to defend an extra drive or two a game because the offense struggles to remain on the field, going 3 and out more than any team but Miami and Detroit, it isn't worn down and giving up a bunch of late scoring drives.

Cousins did not play good enough to win 11 games. We know this for a fact because we won 8.

When will the excuses for him stop and people realize he is a .500 QB because he is a .500 QB?
Picking any cherries. Cousins absolutely played well enough for us to win 11 games. you are so blind it's ridiculous.
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by psjordan » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:03 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:11 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:41 am


There isn't a single 11 win team this season with our scoring efficiency or worse. LV was tied with 2.05 points per drive and they won 10 games.

If the offense scores more points so that we don't need a last minute FG and so that a last minute drive doesn't win it for the other team, we win more games. If the D isn't asked to defend an extra drive or two a game because the offense struggles to remain on the field, going 3 and out more than any team but Miami and Detroit, it isn't worn down and giving up a bunch of late scoring drives.

Cousins did not play good enough to win 11 games. We know this for a fact because we won 8.

When will the excuses for him stop and people realize he is a .500 QB because he is a .500 QB?
Picking any cherries. Cousins absolutely played well enough for us to win 11 games. you are so blind it's ridiculous.
I don't think he's blind, he's just saying Cousins should have done more in the first 56 minutes of games in order for him to "play well enough to win 11" games. Not an unreasonable viewpoint. All those 3-and-outs during the game add up to close games, and close games frequently add up to losses.

I place far more culpability on our offensive play BOOK as opposed to our play CALLING or Cousins himself, as well as what I considered to be an inept coaching staff.
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by IIsweet » Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:11 pm

Minnesota Vikings
General manager interviewees:
Kwesi Adofo-Mensah, Browns vice president of football operations
Brandon Brown, Eagles director of player personnel
Glenn Cook, Browns vice president of player personnel
Ryan Poles, Chiefs executive director of player personnel
Catherine Raiche, Eagles vice president of football operations
John Spytek, Buccaneers vice president of player personnel
Eliot Wolf, Patriots players personnel consultant

Of that group, I had already mentioned John Spytek and he would be my guy !!!
I still like Adam Peters from SF and Borgonzi from KC ( even though they will be interviewing Poles from KC)
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:28 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:11 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:41 am


There isn't a single 11 win team this season with our scoring efficiency or worse. LV was tied with 2.05 points per drive and they won 10 games.

If the offense scores more points so that we don't need a last minute FG and so that a last minute drive doesn't win it for the other team, we win more games. If the D isn't asked to defend an extra drive or two a game because the offense struggles to remain on the field, going 3 and out more than any team but Miami and Detroit, it isn't worn down and giving up a bunch of late scoring drives.

Cousins did not play good enough to win 11 games. We know this for a fact because we won 8.

When will the excuses for him stop and people realize he is a .500 QB because he is a .500 QB?
Picking any cherries. Cousins absolutely played well enough for us to win 11 games. you are so blind it's ridiculous.
https://twitter.com/ChadGraff/status/14 ... 4%2Frecent
Final 2021 QB stats. Kirk Cousins ranked 14th in EPA+CPOE, 13th in adjusted EPA/play, 22nd in success rate, 11th in completion percentage, 10th in yards per attempt, and 15th in QBR.
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by StanM » Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:05 pm

psjordan wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:03 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:11 am


Picking any cherries. Cousins absolutely played well enough for us to win 11 games. you are so blind it's ridiculous.
I don't think he's blind, he's just saying Cousins should have done more in the first 56 minutes of games in order for him to "play well enough to win 11" games. Not an unreasonable viewpoint. All those 3-and-outs during the game add up to close games, and close games frequently add up to losses.

I place far more culpability on our offensive play BOOK as opposed to our play CALLING or Cousins himself, as well as what I considered to be an inept coaching staff.
I think our defense would have performed better if the offense didn’t get bogged down with three and out for the entire half. There were a lot of games where the defense started out good for a quarter or so it couldn’t hold their finger in the dike waiting for the offense to put points on the board. The defense did have some vulnerabilities but they got worse as the games progressed in proportion to the success of an offense. I can only imagine going all out for a half and running out of juice with no points on the board. The defense was hardly on the sidelines long enough to talk to catch their breath. When that happens there isn’t enough strength and endurance training that’s going to help much.
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by 808vikingsfan » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:45 pm

StanM wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:05 pm
psjordan wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:03 am


I don't think he's blind, he's just saying Cousins should have done more in the first 56 minutes of games in order for him to "play well enough to win 11" games. Not an unreasonable viewpoint. All those 3-and-outs during the game add up to close games, and close games frequently add up to losses.

I place far more culpability on our offensive play BOOK as opposed to our play CALLING or Cousins himself, as well as what I considered to be an inept coaching staff.
I think our defense would have performed better if the offense didn’t get bogged down with three and out for the entire half. There were a lot of games where the defense started out good for a quarter or so it couldn’t hold their finger in the dike waiting for the offense to put points on the board. The defense did have some vulnerabilities but they got worse as the games progressed in proportion to the success of an offense. I can only imagine going all out for a half and running out of juice with no points on the board. The defense was hardly on the sidelines long enough to talk to catch their breath. When that happens there isn’t enough strength and endurance training that’s going to help much.
The Vikings offense led the league in 3 and outs (53).

Some stats from reddit.
Did some digging into the offense and well… (self.minnesotavikings)

submitted 1 day ago by Welu522

Not good. Saw a lot of people saying we were top 5/10 this year.

No the hell we weren’t.

Anyways here’s some stats.

196 total drives (2nd), yet 13th total plays

12th yards

14th points

15th score %

17th epa

16th dvoa(12th pass, 27th rush)

27th plays per drive

19th yards per drive

28th time per drive

15th points per drive

15th points per play

25th 3rd down %

20th total 1st downs

25th successful play rate(17th pass, 28th run)

28th successful play rate on 3rd downs


https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikin ... _and_well/
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:05 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:45 pm
StanM wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:05 pm


I think our defense would have performed better if the offense didn’t get bogged down with three and out for the entire half. There were a lot of games where the defense started out good for a quarter or so it couldn’t hold their finger in the dike waiting for the offense to put points on the board. The defense did have some vulnerabilities but they got worse as the games progressed in proportion to the success of an offense. I can only imagine going all out for a half and running out of juice with no points on the board. The defense was hardly on the sidelines long enough to talk to catch their breath. When that happens there isn’t enough strength and endurance training that’s going to help much.
The Vikings offense led the league in 3 and outs (53).

Some stats from reddit.
Did some digging into the offense and well… (self.minnesotavikings)

submitted 1 day ago by Welu522

Not good. Saw a lot of people saying we were top 5/10 this year.

No the hell we weren’t.

Anyways here’s some stats.

196 total drives (2nd), yet 13th total plays

12th yards

14th points

15th score %

17th epa

16th dvoa(12th pass, 27th rush)

27th plays per drive

19th yards per drive

28th time per drive

15th points per drive

15th points per play

25th 3rd down %

20th total 1st downs

25th successful play rate(17th pass, 28th run)

28th successful play rate on 3rd downs


https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikin ... _and_well/
Those are pathetic numbers. Pathetic.

If this doesn’t prove Klint Kubiak’s worthlessness as a play caller, then nothing does. Yet I’m actually hearing speculation that he is drawing interest as an OC from other teams. Laughable.
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:10 pm

IIsweet wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:11 pm
Minnesota Vikings
General manager interviewees:
Kwesi Adofo-Mensah, Browns vice president of football operations
Brandon Brown, Eagles director of player personnel
Glenn Cook, Browns vice president of player personnel
Ryan Poles, Chiefs executive director of player personnel
Catherine Raiche, Eagles vice president of football operations
John Spytek, Buccaneers vice president of player personnel
Eliot Wolf, Patriots players personnel consultant

Of that group, I had already mentioned John Spytek and he would be my guy !!!
I still like Adam Peters from SF and Borgonzi from KC ( even though they will be interviewing Poles from KC)
I love the roster that Tampa has built, so Spytek would be intriguing. Plus, that name. Imagine the memes!

My concern with Spytek is a question? How much of their success is attributable to things Spytek influences … and how much of it is due to Brady?

Not a knock on the guy. Just an unanswered question.

That being said, if the Vikings hire a guy who helped build a recent Super Bowl roster, you won’t hear me complain.
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by IIsweet » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:07 pm

The roster was built thru the draft and added some pieces thru FA, but not a lot. OL is drafted. Entire WR corps were drafted by Bucs. Gronk and Brady signed. Fournette was released by Jax and the Bucs scooped off of waivers. Defense was drafted and developed except Suh and JPP years ago.
Hard to argue with what they have done
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by Angels Wings » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:38 am

cogitator wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:03 pm
Angels Wings wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:19 pm

Even with his legal troubles, I'd rather have Watson
Really? He hasn't played for a year, and you have no idea when he will be cleared to play again.
Yes...and it sounds like there may be resolution coming soon to the legal issues. Watson with Cook, Jefferson and Adam would be killer if it were to happen. Kirk is a good guy and person, but not a QB that will lead you to a Super Bowl. I think Watson can.

But, it's a moot point as I don't think the Vikings would trade for him anyway...
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by vikeinmontana » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:19 am

Angels Wings wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:38 am
cogitator wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:03 pm


Really? He hasn't played for a year, and you have no idea when he will be cleared to play again.
Yes...and it sounds like there may be resolution coming soon to the legal issues. Watson with Cook, Jefferson and Adam would be killer if it were to happen. Kirk is a good guy and person, but not a QB that will lead you to a Super Bowl. I think Watson can.

But, it's a moot point as I don't think the Vikings would trade for him anyway...
What resolution?

I’ve been trying to follow this situation as close as possible because I too, was a DW fan. But I can’t find anything showing his legal battles is even close to ending.

Do you have a link?
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Re: Rick and Zimmer both gone

Post by Angels Wings » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:15 am

vikeinmontana wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:19 am
Angels Wings wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:38 am

Yes...and it sounds like there may be resolution coming soon to the legal issues. Watson with Cook, Jefferson and Adam would be killer if it were to happen. Kirk is a good guy and person, but not a QB that will lead you to a Super Bowl. I think Watson can.

But, it's a moot point as I don't think the Vikings would trade for him anyway...
What resolution?

I’ve been trying to follow this situation as close as possible because I too, was a DW fan. But I can’t find anything showing his legal battles is even close to ending.

Do you have a link?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/revealed-nfl ... 30635.html

https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/art ... 761055.php
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