Cousins to start against Chicago

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:41 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:18 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:13 pm


The thing that pains the most is that we all assume JJ is an up-and-coming receiver. He's only going to get better. He'll have the chance to break more records.

But that isn't always true.

The fact remains that he had a chance to set the 17 game record. He was right there, and that moment was allowed to pass him by by his head coach, his offensive coordinator, and his QB. That moment when he had that chance is gone forever. Nobody can give it back to him, and nobody can replace it.

The more I think about this, the more it just makes me sad. Zimmer was the next-best-robot-since-Childress. Good riddance. I really hope Cousins follows him out the door soon.
If Jefferson had got that record that he came so close to it would have been because Cousins did an excellent job passing him the ball. Who cares about the stupid record? BFD. Really. JJ had a great season. Isn't that enough?
What if it were Cousins who needed a few more yards to set a passing record and Zimmer had him kneel it down? Would you still feel the same way about it given how long Cousins has been in the league and how unlikely it would be for him to ever be in a position to set that record again?
0 x

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:42 am

IIsweet wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:59 am
I have to ask, how many of you were actual HS, college, and then professional athletes ?
Next, which decade did you play in?
Reason I ask, is that Old School thoughts are OK with Zim and appreciate respecting the game. That matters to you.
Current day athletes did not play then, the game has changed, the athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger. The competition level is at an all time high. JJ being in position to set a record should have been a priority. All things considered, records in every era should be acknowledged and respected. The game in every era should be respected. Athletes in every era should be respected. BUT.... you should always attempt to break records and earn incentive bonuses !!!
What if.... happens ??? What if JJ is never in this position again? There is money attached to these as well.
I promise that that 53 players on that team wanted him to get the record. The fact that Cousins bowed out and didn't throw him the ball, shows a lack of leadership. He did not step up for his teammate.... the guy he goes to battle in the trenches with ! The coaches were being fired, why would Cousins not do so ?
If I could upvote your post more I would...

That would probably be "Upvote fraud" though...

:lol:
0 x

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:46 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:51 pm
The more I think about it, the more I think Zimmer did the absolute right thing. I'd do the same thing if I was in his position, choose integrity of the game over individualistic achievements. Zimmer was NEVER about the individual. I respect Zimmer for that.

It's done. JJ had opportunities to break the record but just didn't get there. I'm sure he has his eye on loftier goals.
Oh sure he does.

Doesn't change the fact that he was cheated out of a chance at this point in his career though by those who didn't care enough to give him that chance.

Aside from outright cheating, how is the "integrity of the game" challenged by a coach/QB trying to get one of their players a record that it literally took them 16 prior games and most of the 17th to even be in a position to achieve?
0 x

User avatar
808vikingsfan
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 145

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by 808vikingsfan » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:39 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:46 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:51 pm
The more I think about it, the more I think Zimmer did the absolute right thing. I'd do the same thing if I was in his position, choose integrity of the game over individualistic achievements. Zimmer was NEVER about the individual. I respect Zimmer for that.

It's done. JJ had opportunities to break the record but just didn't get there. I'm sure he has his eye on loftier goals.
Oh sure he does.

Doesn't change the fact that he was cheated out of a chance at this point in his career though by those who didn't care enough to give him that chance.

Aside from outright cheating, how is the "integrity of the game" challenged by a coach/QB trying to get one of their players a record that it literally took them 16 prior games and most of the 17th to even be in a position to achieve?
JJ wasn't cheated. He had his chances over the season, even in the Chicago game. IMO, it would have been a forced record if they tried passing to JJ on every play in the waning seconds. It would have been a tainted record, just like Strahans sack record.

To me, trying to forcefully set a team record during a very disappointing season is like celebrating a TD when you're losing 44-0 in the 4th qtr with 2 minutes to go. Maybe I'd feel different if it was an NFL record he was trying to break. Or if the Vikings were in the middle of a successful season, headed to the playoffs. But in the situation the Vikings were in, a losing season, out of the playoffs, Zimmer a day away from being fired, I can't see Zimmer, or any coach in that situation, forcing a record.
1 x
Joined: Aug 2006
Deleted: Sept 12 2014
Reborn: Sept 17 2014

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 516

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:37 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:30 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:23 pm

Sure stats accumulate, but when you switch from playing to win to playing to get the record it cheapens the accomplishment. I find it ridiculous that so many people care about the IMO stupid record.
You’ve got to be kidding me? Cheapens the accomplishment? Have you ever played any sport?

I’m gonna brag for a minute. I am a golfer. A good one. Two summers ago, I turned 60. As I was playing my home course with my friends, I went on an absolute tear on the front 9. A real priest-in-Caddyshack run. Fairways and greens, and the putter was stuck on automatic. Rolled in a 20-footer for birdie on the ninth to make the turn in 29. Twenty-freaking-nine. That’s 7-under. From the tips. At 60 years old.

I had my buddies beat by a mile. The game was over. But do you think for one minute that stopped me from wanting to go lower? Not a chance. My first thought was shooting my age. Hardly anybody who plays golf ever shoots their age. But to do it at age 60? That would be the rarest of feats. You better believe I was thinking about it as I started the back.

And that’s probably why it didn’t happen. Ended up shooting 35 on the back. Putter cooled off. Still shot 8-under 64, the best round of my life.

Was it “tainted” because I won by 11 shots? Did it mean less because I only needed a 74 to take my friends’ money? Hell no! I wanted to shoot 60 so bad I could taste it. And you know what? So did my buddies.

Records mean something to the people setting them. That record meant something to JJ, and it meant something to his teammates. That’s what matters, not what Random Fan thinks.
Golf is an individual sport. Of course you are going to play your best. However, you weren't trying to set your longest putt record rather than get the best score you could. No taint whatsoever. Totally different than a team manufacturing a record for one individual.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 516

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:39 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:42 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:19 pm

To me the single season rushing record is OJ. Since different seasons have different amount of games the record should be based on yards divided by number of games in the season.
So … who holds the single-season sack record? Michael Strahan or T.J. Watt? They both had 22.5.

Strahan did his in a 16-game season. Watt’s came this year in 17. So by your thinking, Strahan is the true record holder.

But look closer.

Watt missed two full games and part of a third, while Strahan suited up for all 16. So Watt actually got his in 15 games.

Also, Strahan’s final sack came when Green Bay’s right tackle barely got out of his stance and Brett Favre curled up in the fetal position when Strahan was 3 yards from him. The Packers took a dive to get the record for the popular Strahan. Therefore, by your “tainted record” theory, Watt should’ve only had 21.5 sacks because he got his last one when the Packers laid down in a meaningless game.

Kinda clashes with your games played logic, doesn’t it?

How about we let the NFL decide what’s a record and what’s not.
I base it on total games for the team. If a player misses games that's on him not staying healthy. Strahan was given one sack though so his record is tainted.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 516

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:40 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:57 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:42 pm

So … who holds the single-season sack record? Michael Strahan or T.J. Watt? They both had 22.5.

Strahan did his in a 16-game season. Watt’s came this year in 17. So by your thinking, Strahan is the true record holder.

But look closer.

Watt missed two full games and part of a third, while Strahan suited up for all 16. So Watt actually got his in 15 games.

Also, Strahan’s final sack came when Green Bay’s right tackle barely got out of his stance and Brett Favre curled up in the fetal position when Strahan was 3 yards from him. The Packers took a dive to get the record for the popular Strahan. Therefore, by your “tainted record” theory, Watt should’ve only had 21.5 sacks because he got his last one when the Packers laid down in a meaningless game.

Kinda clashes with your games played logic, doesn’t it?

How about we let the NFL decide what’s a record and what’s not.
I think if you asked Strahan he would say he wished his record wasn't tarnished by Favre falling down and giving up the sack.
Absolutely.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 516

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:42 pm

IIsweet wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:59 am
I have to ask, how many of you were actual HS, college, and then professional athletes ?
Next, which decade did you play in?
Reason I ask, is that Old School thoughts are OK with Zim and appreciate respecting the game. That matters to you.
Current day athletes did not play then, the game has changed, the athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger. The competition level is at an all time high. JJ being in position to set a record should have been a priority. All things considered, records in every era should be acknowledged and respected. The game in every era should be respected. Athletes in every era should be respected. BUT.... you should always attempt to break records and earn incentive bonuses !!!
What if.... happens ??? What if JJ is never in this position again? There is money attached to these as well.
I promise that that 53 players on that team wanted him to get the record. The fact that Cousins bowed out and didn't throw him the ball, shows a lack of leadership. He did not step up for his teammate.... the guy he goes to battle in the trenches with ! The coaches were being fired, why would Cousins not do so ?
Cousins was the second biggest reason JJ was in range of the record. JJ had his chance to get the record in the normal flow of the game. He came up short.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 516

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:43 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:33 am
IIsweet wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:59 am
I have to ask, how many of you were actual HS, college, and then professional athletes ?
Next, which decade did you play in?
Reason I ask, is that Old School thoughts are OK with Zim and appreciate respecting the game. That matters to you.
Current day athletes did not play then, the game has changed, the athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger. The competition level is at an all time high. JJ being in position to set a record should have been a priority. All things considered, records in every era should be acknowledged and respected. The game in every era should be respected. Athletes in every era should be respected. BUT.... you should always attempt to break records and earn incentive bonuses !!!
What if.... happens ??? What if JJ is never in this position again? There is money attached to these as well.
I promise that that 53 players on that team wanted him to get the record. The fact that Cousins bowed out and didn't throw him the ball, shows a lack of leadership. He did not step up for his teammate.... the guy he goes to battle in the trenches with ! The coaches were being fired, why would Cousins not do so ?
Totally agree with you … and I’m pretty darned old school!

The thing is, human nature hasn’t changed. Everybody wants to be associated with something extraordinary. And that’s not new. It’s always been that way. When Mantle and Maris were chasing Ruth’s 60 home run record in 1961, they both cared. When Pete Rose was chasing Joe DiMaggio’s 56-game hit streak record in 1978, he cared (and his streak was broken in a blowout where it didn’t matter to the game).

And as you said, the guys going to war with JJ cared about that record, too. For the coaching staff to turn a blind eye was bad for morale. But what did Zimmer care? He was getting fired. It was all about him.

As for Cousins, it’s not in his nature to audible against the coach’s wishes. He’s the ultimate “I just work here” guy. But he could’ve gotten on the phone to Kubiak and fought for his guy.

I suppose I should quit harping on this, but it illustrates how much dysfunction there was on this team, and how toxic the environment had gotten. A unified team would have pulled together to get the record — not just for JJ, but for each other. To salvage something out of a lost season. But hey, some of you think JJ’s desire for the record was selfish. Whatever. I say the team not coming together to get that record, in a game that was clearly in hand, was the ultimate selfish act of a very selfish team.
JJ is a WR. WRs are Divas. Of course getting the record is going to matter to him.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 516

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:45 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:41 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:18 pm

If Jefferson had got that record that he came so close to it would have been because Cousins did an excellent job passing him the ball. Who cares about the stupid record? BFD. Really. JJ had a great season. Isn't that enough?
What if it were Cousins who needed a few more yards to set a passing record and Zimmer had him kneel it down? Would you still feel the same way about it given how long Cousins has been in the league and how unlikely it would be for him to ever be in a position to set that record again?
If the game flow calls for a kneel down than that's what should be done.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 516

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:46 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:46 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:51 pm
The more I think about it, the more I think Zimmer did the absolute right thing. I'd do the same thing if I was in his position, choose integrity of the game over individualistic achievements. Zimmer was NEVER about the individual. I respect Zimmer for that.

It's done. JJ had opportunities to break the record but just didn't get there. I'm sure he has his eye on loftier goals.
Oh sure he does.

Doesn't change the fact that he was cheated out of a chance at this point in his career though by those who didn't care enough to give him that chance.

Aside from outright cheating, how is the "integrity of the game" challenged by a coach/QB trying to get one of their players a record that it literally took them 16 prior games and most of the 17th to even be in a position to achieve?
He wasn't cheated. He had his opportunities to break the record and came up short.
0 x

psjordan
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1763
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:01 am
x 113

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by psjordan » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:52 am

I don't think "owed", "cheated", "didn't earn", "integrity of the game", "in the course of play" or any other statement in this thread is the crux here.

The coaching staff had an OPPORTUNITY to do something good/nice for one of its great, young players. They didn't. Not an isolated incident. The story ends with a mass firing of the staff.
2 x

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingLord » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:15 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:45 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:41 am


What if it were Cousins who needed a few more yards to set a passing record and Zimmer had him kneel it down? Would you still feel the same way about it given how long Cousins has been in the league and how unlikely it would be for him to ever be in a position to set that record again?
If the game flow calls for a kneel down than that's what should be done.
Domo arigato
1 x

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingLord » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:17 am

psjordan wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:52 am
I don't think "owed", "cheated", "didn't earn", "integrity of the game", "in the course of play" or any other statement in this thread is the crux here.

The coaching staff had an OPPORTUNITY to do something good/nice for one of its great, young players. They didn't. Not an isolated incident. The story ends with a mass firing of the staff.
Call it what you want, but they could have done it and chose not to.

Uninspiring. Not hard to see, in my view, why the players started playing like zombies late in the season when Zimmer's job was on the line.
1 x

StumpHunter
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 472

Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:57 am

Bruce Arians attempted to bench Brady this past weekend when the game was out of hand and Gronk needed 7 catches to make a 1 million dollar bonus.

Brady said he was going in anyway and threw the ball to Gronk on a short gain to get him his bonus.

Is Arians going to lose the team because he wanted what was best for the team as a whole over the individual player? Nope.

Is the team going to look at what Brady did for one of their teammates and want to play even harder to not let him down? Absolutely.
1 x