Cousins to start against Chicago

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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:28 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:09 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:41 pm

No I didn't watch the game. Didn't you consider the game meaningless? Why is it an FU to JJ? It isn't Zimmer's job to help his WR break an old team record. It's his job to help his team win games. He did just that.

I'd rather have Moss keep the record anyway. Jefferson had an extra game and IMO watching them both play Jefferson can't hold a candle to Moss.
I see. You have no idea what’s going on, so you pivot to telling us what you’d prefer. I’d prefer to have a winter home in Palm Beach instead of Scottsdale. Can’t afford either. Do you care? Guess what. Neither do I when it comes to your preference for Moss.

Word of advice. Don’t play expert on topics for which your knowledge is lacking.
Sorry Kapp. I respect your expertise, but your advice is misplaced. I admittedly didn't know what record was being talked about, but it doesn't matter what the record was. I wasn't playing expert on this in any way, shape or form. It's just a matter of taste. It seems you want the new guy to break the record with the extra game and I don't. That's not a matter of expertise it's a matter of taste. I don't like seeing records manufactured by design. I like seeing them happen organically. A winter home in Scottsdale is pretty good, but then you need a summer home in Flagstaff where I live year round. :D 8) :banana: :appl:

Actually Bellemont a town of less than 1000 people 10 miles west.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:42 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:28 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:09 pm

I see. You have no idea what’s going on, so you pivot to telling us what you’d prefer. I’d prefer to have a winter home in Palm Beach instead of Scottsdale. Can’t afford either. Do you care? Guess what. Neither do I when it comes to your preference for Moss.

Word of advice. Don’t play expert on topics for which your knowledge is lacking.
Sorry Kapp. I respect your expertise, but your advice is misplaced. I admittedly didn't know what record was being talked about, but it doesn't matter what the record was. I wasn't playing expert on this in any way, shape or form. It's just a matter of taste. It seems you want the new guy to break the record with the extra game and I don't. That's not a matter of expertise it's a matter of taste. I don't like seeing records manufactured by design. I like seeing them happen organically. A winter home in Scottsdale is pretty good, but then you need a summer home in Flagstaff where I live year round. :D 8) :banana: :appl:

Actually Bellemont a town of less than 1000 people 10 miles west.
OK, I was probably a bit harsh there. So let’s talk about the situation.

This isn’t about whether you or I like Randy Moss better.

This is about a coach who was 14 points ahead, with the ball in plus territory, and four minutes to go. He had the game won. He easily could have gotten on the headset and told Kubiak, “Let’s go out in style. Let’s get the record for Justin.” Instead, he went into the postgame press conference, more surly and snarky than ever, and said, and I quote, “I don’t care about records.”

So I ask you in a very serious way. Is that a coach that guys are going to want to play for? Is that a guy who understands that what he says about his players in public affects those players privately? Do you think players are motivated when their coach never takes responsibility for losses but instead throws them under the bus with “I keep telling them to (fill in the blank) but they don’t listen?”

You’ve been consistently supportive of Kirk Cousins. Let’s think about it this way. If Kirk Cousins had any leadership qualities, do you think they had any chance of bubbling to the surface under Zimmer?

I look at Brady yesterday. The Bucs wanted to take him out of the game, but he refused to come out of the game until he ensured Rob Gronkowski had enough catches and yards to earn two incentive bonuses worth $1 million. Kirk Cousins could’ve done that yesterday for JJ. When Kubiak called running plays near the end, Kirk could’ve said, “To hell with this. I’m calling a pass.” But he didn’t. In fairness to Cousins, my bet is that Zimmer beat him up enough over 4 years to flush the leadership tendencies out of him. Guarantee you, Brett Favre would’ve overridden the play call and gotten JJ those yards. Kirk’s personality is difference. I’m not blaming Kirk. I’m blaming Zimmer for not allowing him to lead.

A wise man once said, “Good leaders produce great followers. But GREAT leaders produce other leaders.” Zimmer didn’t do that.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:13 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:42 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:28 pm

Sorry Kapp. I respect your expertise, but your advice is misplaced. I admittedly didn't know what record was being talked about, but it doesn't matter what the record was. I wasn't playing expert on this in any way, shape or form. It's just a matter of taste. It seems you want the new guy to break the record with the extra game and I don't. That's not a matter of expertise it's a matter of taste. I don't like seeing records manufactured by design. I like seeing them happen organically. A winter home in Scottsdale is pretty good, but then you need a summer home in Flagstaff where I live year round. :D 8) :banana: :appl:

Actually Bellemont a town of less than 1000 people 10 miles west.
OK, I was probably a bit harsh there. So let’s talk about the situation.

This isn’t about whether you or I like Randy Moss better.

This is about a coach who was 14 points ahead, with the ball in plus territory, and four minutes to go. He had the game won. He easily could have gotten on the headset and told Kubiak, “Let’s go out in style. Let’s get the record for Justin.” Instead, he went into the postgame press conference, more surly and snarky than ever, and said, and I quote, “I don’t care about records.”

So I ask you in a very serious way. Is that a coach that guys are going to want to play for? Is that a guy who understands that what he says about his players in public affects those players privately? Do you think players are motivated when their coach never takes responsibility for losses but instead throws them under the bus with “I keep telling them to (fill in the blank) but they don’t listen?”

You’ve been consistently supportive of Kirk Cousins. Let’s think about it this way. If Kirk Cousins had any leadership qualities, do you think they had any chance of bubbling to the surface under Zimmer?

I look at Brady yesterday. The Bucs wanted to take him out of the game, but he refused to come out of the game until he ensured Rob Gronkowski had enough catches and yards to earn two incentive bonuses worth $1 million. Kirk Cousins could’ve done that yesterday for JJ. When Kubiak called running plays near the end, Kirk could’ve said, “To hell with this. I’m calling a pass.” But he didn’t. In fairness to Cousins, my bet is that Zimmer beat him up enough over 4 years to flush the leadership tendencies out of him. Guarantee you, Brett Favre would’ve overridden the play call and gotten JJ those yards. Kirk’s personality is difference. I’m not blaming Kirk. I’m blaming Zimmer for not allowing him to lead.

A wise man once said, “Good leaders produce great followers. But GREAT leaders produce other leaders.” Zimmer didn’t do that.
Randy Moss is my all time football hero. If his record is going to be broken I want it to be done in the normal course of playing football. Not in what do we have to do to get this record. I don't like it when the goal is to break the record not just to play the game. Maybe Jefferson would have liked to break the record. I don't know about that. WRs have a reputation as Divas. It's probably a good thing if Jefferson thinks he is on Moss's level, but I guarantee you he isn't.

I think ignoring your coach is similar to mutiny. I may have some records for my High School tennis team if I ever bothered finding out what those records were. You clearly aren't a Zimmer fan. I've never had a problem with him. Bill Parcells once referred to one of his star players Terry Glenn as "she". I hated that. Maybe Parcells saw it as motivation to get him to man up.
Glenn famously clashed with Hall of Fame coach Bill Parcells as a rookie. Parcells referred to him as “she.” But Glenn became an instant star, catching 90 passes for 1,132 yards and six touchdowns as a rookie to help the Patriots advance to the Super Bowl.Nov 20, 2017 So maybe it worked. Sadly Glenn died at 43.

Herb Brooks was a uniting force behind the US Hockey teams 1980 gold medal. All the players hated him. They united in their hatred of Brooks. This culminated in winning the gold medal by beating Finland in the gold medal game. I love pointing that out. The US hockey team did not win Gold when they beat the Soviets.

Maybe todays players are all about records and individual accomplishments and want to play for the glory. Maybe a coach who encourages that would relate to the players better. We had a big discussion about swagger a year or two ago. I personally think swagger is a bad thing. Showing off that kind of stuff, but I guess in the football world it's considered a good thing. I turned 63 yesterday. I'm old. I guess I'm old school when it comes to things like this.

For better or worse Zimmer and Spielman are gone. I hope the replacements are improvements.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:06 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:13 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:42 pm

OK, I was probably a bit harsh there. So let’s talk about the situation.

This isn’t about whether you or I like Randy Moss better.

This is about a coach who was 14 points ahead, with the ball in plus territory, and four minutes to go. He had the game won. He easily could have gotten on the headset and told Kubiak, “Let’s go out in style. Let’s get the record for Justin.” Instead, he went into the postgame press conference, more surly and snarky than ever, and said, and I quote, “I don’t care about records.”

So I ask you in a very serious way. Is that a coach that guys are going to want to play for? Is that a guy who understands that what he says about his players in public affects those players privately? Do you think players are motivated when their coach never takes responsibility for losses but instead throws them under the bus with “I keep telling them to (fill in the blank) but they don’t listen?”

You’ve been consistently supportive of Kirk Cousins. Let’s think about it this way. If Kirk Cousins had any leadership qualities, do you think they had any chance of bubbling to the surface under Zimmer?

I look at Brady yesterday. The Bucs wanted to take him out of the game, but he refused to come out of the game until he ensured Rob Gronkowski had enough catches and yards to earn two incentive bonuses worth $1 million. Kirk Cousins could’ve done that yesterday for JJ. When Kubiak called running plays near the end, Kirk could’ve said, “To hell with this. I’m calling a pass.” But he didn’t. In fairness to Cousins, my bet is that Zimmer beat him up enough over 4 years to flush the leadership tendencies out of him. Guarantee you, Brett Favre would’ve overridden the play call and gotten JJ those yards. Kirk’s personality is difference. I’m not blaming Kirk. I’m blaming Zimmer for not allowing him to lead.

A wise man once said, “Good leaders produce great followers. But GREAT leaders produce other leaders.” Zimmer didn’t do that.
Randy Moss is my all time football hero. If his record is going to be broken I want it to be done in the normal course of playing football. Not in what do we have to do to get this record. I don't like it when the goal is to break the record not just to play the game. Maybe Jefferson would have liked to break the record. I don't know about that. WRs have a reputation as Divas. It's probably a good thing if Jefferson thinks he is on Moss's level, but I guarantee you he isn't.

I think ignoring your coach is similar to mutiny. I may have some records for my High School tennis team if I ever bothered finding out what those records were. You clearly aren't a Zimmer fan. I've never had a problem with him. Bill Parcells once referred to one of his star players Terry Glenn as "she". I hated that. Maybe Parcells saw it as motivation to get him to man up.
Glenn famously clashed with Hall of Fame coach Bill Parcells as a rookie. Parcells referred to him as “she.” But Glenn became an instant star, catching 90 passes for 1,132 yards and six touchdowns as a rookie to help the Patriots advance to the Super Bowl.Nov 20, 2017 So maybe it worked. Sadly Glenn died at 43.

Herb Brooks was a uniting force behind the US Hockey teams 1980 gold medal. All the players hated him. They united in their hatred of Brooks. This culminated in winning the gold medal by beating Finland in the gold medal game. I love pointing that out. The US hockey team did not win Gold when they beat the Soviets.

Maybe todays players are all about records and individual accomplishments and want to play for the glory. Maybe a coach who encourages that would relate to the players better. We had a big discussion about swagger a year or two ago. I personally think swagger is a bad thing. Showing off that kind of stuff, but I guess in the football world it's considered a good thing. I turned 63 yesterday. I'm old. I guess I'm old school when it comes to things like this.

For better or worse Zimmer and Spielman are gone. I hope the replacements are improvements.
So if mutiny is out of the question, then why, if you’re Kirk Cousins, don’t you get on the phone to Klint Kubiak, and talk to him about getting the record? If you want to be a Viking for life, as Cousins asserts, then why don’t you have your best receiver’s back?

I appreciate your fondness for Moss, but to be honest, it doesn’t matter to me. The Vikings, more specifically Zimmer, Kubiak, and Cousins, had a chance to do something positive for a great young player. They didn’t. It’s that simple.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:06 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:13 pm

Randy Moss is my all time football hero. If his record is going to be broken I want it to be done in the normal course of playing football. Not in what do we have to do to get this record. I don't like it when the goal is to break the record not just to play the game. Maybe Jefferson would have liked to break the record. I don't know about that. WRs have a reputation as Divas. It's probably a good thing if Jefferson thinks he is on Moss's level, but I guarantee you he isn't.

I think ignoring your coach is similar to mutiny. I may have some records for my High School tennis team if I ever bothered finding out what those records were. You clearly aren't a Zimmer fan. I've never had a problem with him. Bill Parcells once referred to one of his star players Terry Glenn as "she". I hated that. Maybe Parcells saw it as motivation to get him to man up.
Glenn famously clashed with Hall of Fame coach Bill Parcells as a rookie. Parcells referred to him as “she.” But Glenn became an instant star, catching 90 passes for 1,132 yards and six touchdowns as a rookie to help the Patriots advance to the Super Bowl.Nov 20, 2017 So maybe it worked. Sadly Glenn died at 43.

Herb Brooks was a uniting force behind the US Hockey teams 1980 gold medal. All the players hated him. They united in their hatred of Brooks. This culminated in winning the gold medal by beating Finland in the gold medal game. I love pointing that out. The US hockey team did not win Gold when they beat the Soviets.

Maybe todays players are all about records and individual accomplishments and want to play for the glory. Maybe a coach who encourages that would relate to the players better. We had a big discussion about swagger a year or two ago. I personally think swagger is a bad thing. Showing off that kind of stuff, but I guess in the football world it's considered a good thing. I turned 63 yesterday. I'm old. I guess I'm old school when it comes to things like this.

For better or worse Zimmer and Spielman are gone. I hope the replacements are improvements.
So if mutiny is out of the question, then why, if you’re Kirk Cousins, don’t you get on the phone to Klint Kubiak, and talk to him about getting the record? If you want to be a Viking for life, as Cousins asserts, then why don’t you have your best receiver’s back?

I appreciate your fondness for Moss, but to be honest, it doesn’t matter to me. The Vikings, more specifically Zimmer, Kubiak, and Cousins, had a chance to do something positive for a great young player. They didn’t. It’s that simple.
I would have been all for them trying to get the record in week 17, but getting it in week 18 doesn't really mean a whole lot when Moss did it in 16 games.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by TSonn » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:57 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:06 pm

So if mutiny is out of the question, then why, if you’re Kirk Cousins, don’t you get on the phone to Klint Kubiak, and talk to him about getting the record? If you want to be a Viking for life, as Cousins asserts, then why don’t you have your best receiver’s back?

I appreciate your fondness for Moss, but to be honest, it doesn’t matter to me. The Vikings, more specifically Zimmer, Kubiak, and Cousins, had a chance to do something positive for a great young player. They didn’t. It’s that simple.
I would have been all for them trying to get the record in week 17, but getting it in week 18 doesn't really mean a whole lot when Moss did it in 16 games.
This won't matter in a few years. The season is 18 weeks now.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:58 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:06 pm

So if mutiny is out of the question, then why, if you’re Kirk Cousins, don’t you get on the phone to Klint Kubiak, and talk to him about getting the record? If you want to be a Viking for life, as Cousins asserts, then why don’t you have your best receiver’s back?

I appreciate your fondness for Moss, but to be honest, it doesn’t matter to me. The Vikings, more specifically Zimmer, Kubiak, and Cousins, had a chance to do something positive for a great young player. They didn’t. It’s that simple.
I would have been all for them trying to get the record in week 17, but getting it in week 18 doesn't really mean a whole lot when Moss did it in 16 games.
It doesn’t mean anything to you.

It meant the world to Justin Jefferson.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:13 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:58 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 pm

I would have been all for them trying to get the record in week 17, but getting it in week 18 doesn't really mean a whole lot when Moss did it in 16 games.
It doesn’t mean anything to you.

It meant the world to Justin Jefferson.
Would it have? Knowing that he needed an extra game to match Moss? I don't know JJ personally, but most hyper competitive people like him want beat others fairly and my guess is getting a significant advantage in a record like this would have made the record very hollow.

It would be one thing if he was 80 away from the record in week 17 and didn't get the record because he had a backup throwing him the football, but he likely would have needed week 18 regardless of who was the QB at GB.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by allday1991 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:10 am

Just speaks to the culture zimmer built, boring and dry. As someone else mentioned 90% of people aren’t going to want to play for someone like that. Kendricks called fear culture and the majority of Viking plays have stated they want the new coach to be someone they can relate to, players don’t like Zimmers robotic no fun approach.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingLord » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:50 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:13 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:58 am

It doesn’t mean anything to you.

It meant the world to Justin Jefferson.
Would it have? Knowing that he needed an extra game to match Moss? I don't know JJ personally, but most hyper competitive people like him want beat others fairly and my guess is getting a significant advantage in a record like this would have made the record very hollow.

It would be one thing if he was 80 away from the record in week 17 and didn't get the record because he had a backup throwing him the football, but he likely would have needed week 18 regardless of who was the QB at GB.
Why not just try to get him the record?

Maybe it means a lot to him and maybe it means nothing, and maybe getting it via an extra game doesn't mean as much as getting it in the same number of games, but why not at least try in a game where they are way ahead and have literally nothing to lose?

It just seems petty and shortsighted. While it seems impossible, JJ may never near that record again during his career and, asterisk or not, it would have put his name in the record books. Why not give him that chance?
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingsVictorious » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:33 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:50 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:13 am


Would it have? Knowing that he needed an extra game to match Moss? I don't know JJ personally, but most hyper competitive people like him want beat others fairly and my guess is getting a significant advantage in a record like this would have made the record very hollow.

It would be one thing if he was 80 away from the record in week 17 and didn't get the record because he had a backup throwing him the football, but he likely would have needed week 18 regardless of who was the QB at GB.
Why not just try to get him the record?

Maybe it means a lot to him and maybe it means nothing, and maybe getting it via an extra game doesn't mean as much as getting it in the same number of games, but why not at least try in a game where they are way ahead and have literally nothing to lose?

It just seems petty and shortsighted. While it seems impossible, JJ may never near that record again during his career and, asterisk or not, it would have put his name in the record books. Why not give him that chance?
Because it taints the game and the record if you are going after it with the game already in hand.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by VikingLord » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:00 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:33 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:50 am


Why not just try to get him the record?

Maybe it means a lot to him and maybe it means nothing, and maybe getting it via an extra game doesn't mean as much as getting it in the same number of games, but why not at least try in a game where they are way ahead and have literally nothing to lose?

It just seems petty and shortsighted. While it seems impossible, JJ may never near that record again during his career and, asterisk or not, it would have put his name in the record books. Why not give him that chance?
Because it taints the game and the record if you are going after it with the game already in hand.
Tom Brady seems to disagree with you...
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by TSonn » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:20 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:33 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:50 am


Why not just try to get him the record?

Maybe it means a lot to him and maybe it means nothing, and maybe getting it via an extra game doesn't mean as much as getting it in the same number of games, but why not at least try in a game where they are way ahead and have literally nothing to lose?

It just seems petty and shortsighted. While it seems impossible, JJ may never near that record again during his career and, asterisk or not, it would have put his name in the record books. Why not give him that chance?
Because it taints the game and the record if you are going after it with the game already in hand.
LOL. Zero people would care that it happened in a meaningless game 3-5 years from now. 99.9% wouldn't care right now.
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:35 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:13 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:58 am

It doesn’t mean anything to you.

It meant the world to Justin Jefferson.
Would it have? Knowing that he needed an extra game to match Moss? I don't know JJ personally, but most hyper competitive people like him want beat others fairly and my guess is getting a significant advantage in a record like this would have made the record very hollow.
Yes he would have. Without a doubt. He talked about it all week long before the Chicago game. As did many of his teammates.

I can’t understand why everybody on this board is so quick to speculate about the motives of people they’ve never met, especially when the evidence is so abundant. I guess being retired, I’ve got nothing better to do but read Vikings crap. But yes, he wanted the record very badly. Zimmer or Kubiak could’ve made that happen. They didn’t. I’ll stop complaining about it now. 😁
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Re: Cousins to start against Chicago

Post by psjordan » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:34 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:33 pm
Because it taints the game and the record if you are going after it with the game already in hand.
The soapbox is a slippery place.

A great deal of stats are accumulated when games are "in hand". Whether that's game #2, #8 or game #17.

And for all the chirps about "an extra game", geez loweez the NFL used to play a 14 game season, and prior to that a 12 game season. Moss had two more games to accumulate stats over the prior regime and so on and so on.

Records accumulate, times march on. Asterisk such things if it makes you feel better.

But 100% they should have cared enough about the kid to get him the record.
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