Vikings vs Bears

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
halfgiz
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2160
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:38 pm
x 76

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by halfgiz » Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:55 am

If there ever was a definition of an ugly win, this game would be the one.
But a win is a win you can’t take that away.
Zimmer should be ashamed of himself.
Cousins had an ugly game. Not all his fault. But the last couple games I don’t like how his throws is setting up receivers to get killed.
On to a good team next...they are coming off a really short week. How often does that happen?
0 x

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 38289
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 406

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by Mothman » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:37 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
I love watching the Vikings. It's why I want them to make the playoffs. More games to watch. But this game was borderline unwatchable, especially in the second half.

You've got a Bears defense with 3 defensive backs who have ZERO snaps ... and we throw for 87 yards. I honestly have no idea what this team was doing. Where is the creativity we saw against the Chargers and Packers? Where are the motions, the jet sweep actions, the play-action passes? Why have we gone back to this offensive philosophy that doesn't take advantage of our strengths?

Props to the defense for hanging in there as the offense floundered. But honest to god, if the Bears weren't so inept, we might have gotten blown out. They had something like 5 trips inside the red zone that resulted in 0 points.

I'm also ready to throw something at the TV listening to the idiot Scott Van Pelt. He says Matt Nagy has a right to be angry at some of the calls against the Bears. All I can say is BULLSH!T. The Bears were stupid and undisciplined, and Matt Nagy was among the most undisciplined of all. And for the record, the personal foul called against James Lynch was total crap. He couldn't see that Fields' knee was down, and the refs didn't blow the whistle. The non-call against JJ that led to Kirk's interception was so obvious, so blatant that a blind monkey could have seen it. And yeah, Kendricks should have gotten a personal foul. But an ejection? He tried to pull up and miss him. Finally, the fact that Zimmer had to challenge to get the fumble recover on the strip by Sheldon Richardson was complete crap. You have two referees right there, and the replay showed just how obvious it was.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. What an awful game. I'm glad we won, but things have GOT to improve offensively. That's three terrible halves in a row since the domination against the Steelers. Get your crap together, Kubiak!!!!

That truly was an awful game! As Jim Souhan put it in his column this morning:
"This was must-unsee TV. In a game that should have been sponsored by a blindfold company, the Vikings improved to 7-7 with three games remaining and a chance to make the playoffs, which is a sure sign that too many teams make the playoffs."

Amen to that.

I sat in the cold stands at Soldier Field last night, appalled at the sloppy performances and sloppy officiating and in the end, convinced that neither team deserved to win that battle of incompetents. It seems criminal that the Vikings moved into the last playoff slot based on that performance.
1 x

User avatar
40for60
Backup
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:37 pm
x 26

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by 40for60 » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:38 am

A typical Vikings/Bears game at Soldiers field. They always seem to be slog fests. But the difference is the Vikings pulled it out, mostly thanks to the ineptness of the Bears offense.

Next the Rams. Odd since they have the short week since they play tonight due to COVID. The Vikings will probably play OK as they seem to play up or down to the competition, and it is at home. But all I can say is Aaron Donald. Cole, Bradbury, and Udoh are probably fighting about who will be benched next week.
0 x

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by VikingLord » Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:51 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
You've got a Bears defense with 3 defensive backs who have ZERO snaps ... and we throw for 87 yards. I honestly have no idea what this team was doing. Where is the creativity we saw against the Chargers and Packers? Where are the motions, the jet sweep actions, the play-action passes? Why have we gone back to this offensive philosophy that doesn't take advantage of our strengths?
I think this team was getting their @$$e$ handed to them by the Bear defensive line. Cook had literally nowhere to run. On most running plays it seemed he was getting dragged down by a Bear DL, and on the rare plays when there was an actual hole it always seemed like Ogletree or Smith was right there to plug it up immediately. On most passing plays Cousins was under constant duress. Hicks abused Cole all night. I find it almost impossible that Hicks is THAT good and Cole THAT bad, but it was embarrassing for Cole. On the seemingly rare plays where Cousins did have time it seemed like the Bear defenders were all over everyone or Cousins outright missed on the throws. His nicest throws of the night were the two largely uncontested TD passes. Beyond that, it was WOW bad.

So to answer your questions, I think the Vikings were simply outclassed on offense by a really bad defense that either played out-of-their-minds well last night for some reason, or that the Vikings just weren't prepared to play physically or mentally. Bottom line - if you can't control the LOS, you can't do much in terms of creativity.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
Props to the defense for hanging in there as the offense floundered. But honest to god, if the Bears weren't so inept, we might have gotten blown out. They had something like 5 trips inside the red zone that resulted in 0 points.
The defense was largely the same as the one we've seen all year. Give up seemingly 10+ yards per carry on some runs, stuff others cold. Play a little pass defense, but then let wide open guys run free or get easy catches on simple curl patterns. Get some decent pass rush pressure, followed by stretches with no pressure at all.

Maddeningly inconsistent.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
And for the record, the personal foul called against James Lynch was total crap. He couldn't see that Fields' knee was down, and the refs didn't blow the whistle.
I didn't even know a QB could take a knee on a play like that. I honestly can't recall ever seeing one do that before unless it is a kneel down play. I thought Lynch got flagged for body slamming him.

They should take that rule out though that lets a QB take a knee in a situation like that. He can take a knee immediately after the snap, but if he starts moving with the ball, the option to end the play by simply taking a knee should be over just like the QB can't intentionally ground the ball to get out of pressure either.

My concern with the option for a QB to just take a knee is that I can see guys starting to do that if they realize they're about to take a hit and don't have anywhere to go with the ball. Just dip down and if a defensive player either doesn't see it or can't stop their momentum before contact, that's a free 15 yards. Plus, it seems to make it more likely that a defensive player might make contact to the head if the QB is dipping down but not going to the ground, something we saw on the Kendrick's foul where Fields slides but doesn't get his head down. It makes it far more likely that incidental contact to the head will occur and that's also 15 yards on the defense.

Treat it like intentional grounding - if the ball is snapped and the QB starts moving with it, the option to take a knee behind the LOS is over. The QB can slide as a runner, but cannot avoid taking a sack by simply taking a knee.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
Anyway, I'm done ranting. What an awful game. I'm glad we won, but things have GOT to improve offensively. That's three terrible halves in a row since the domination against the Steelers. Get your crap together, Kubiak!!!!
I think it's the OL. They're just getting overmatched yet again and without an effective OL it's hard for anyone to move the ball. Even the best QBs and RBs struggle without blocking.
0 x

User avatar
soflavike
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9580
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:38 pm
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
x 19

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by soflavike » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:10 am

A few observations after watching that terrible football game.

1) Whatever they're feeding the Bears defense on game day, we need some of that. I have never seen Dalvin Cook stood up and knocked back play-after-play like that before.

2) I sure hope Thielen gets better by Sunday, because we really need him.

3) A few nice flashes of Nwangwu running the ball. Kid has lots of upside.

4) Say what you want about Cousins, but he's tough as nails. He took a heck of a beating in this game, ran the ball when he needed to and got us a couple of TD's through the air. The stats may have been horrible, but he earned his game check. He's a durable QB, which is a good thing considering our backup situation.

5) The quarterback slide rule needs to go away. We have rules against helmet to helmet (and Kendricks would have been flagged for that), but with all the running QB's in the league you can't have special rules when they take off and run. They become running backs. Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts, Justin Fields, Mahomes, Heinicke, Herbert... they're all serious rushing threats. The defense needs to be able to play tackle football.

6) I totally get the flag on Kendricks for hitting the QB in the head, but an ejection? Seems a little harsh.

7) We don't have a prayer in the playoffs. Team needs to be revamped and that starts with a new coaching staff. We missed our window.
4 x
*********
A die-hard Vikings fan in South Florida

StumpHunter
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 472

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:48 am

I won't argue that there were not times drives were stalled because of failures on the Oline, but our QB was pressured the 11th most of any QB this weekend and the large majority of the time he was not pressured on his drop backs.

Cole was an issue in this game no doubt, but he was not the reason the QB played as poorly as he did.
0 x

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by VikingLord » Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:39 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:48 am
I won't argue that there were not times drives were stalled because of failures on the Oline, but our QB was pressured the 11th most of any QB this weekend and the large majority of the time he was not pressured on his drop backs.

Cole was an issue in this game no doubt, but he was not the reason the QB played as poorly as he did.
It's hard to say whether Cousins played badly because I couldn't see if the receivers were getting open. Cousins missed on a few of the early deep attempts. One he overthrew (Conklin?) and the other one was defended by the Bear DB who I thought might have gotten away with PI on the play. As a sidenote, it's incredibly frustrating to rarely if ever see a Vikings WR come down with a 50-50 ball, while opposing WRs seem to always come down with those against the Vikings DBs. But I digress...

The only other things I remember about Cousins were the two easy TD passes to largely wide open receivers. Those were nice throws. Other than that, I really don't recall any instances other than a few short out routes where a Vikings WR was open. There were several short throws on screens that went nowhere and a few safety valves that also got swallowed up quickly. But in terms of downfield attempts even at 10 yards, I don't recall seeing the Vikings WRs ever really open. Not sure if the Bear defenders knew what the playcalls were, but given how tightly a largely inexperienced group of DBs was able to play the receivers (once again, from what I saw, which was limited), it sure didn't look like the Vikings were getting anyone open. Another thing that seemed odd was how effectively the Bear LBs were shooting run gaps. I mean, on the relatively rare occasions when the OL actually blocked the Bear DL players, either Smith or Ogletree was right there seemingly every time. Seemed like the Bears knew exactly what was coming. Either that, or the Vikings were incredibly unlucky.

Anyway, it's hard for me to fault Cousins. I don't think he played well per se, but he didn't have a lot of opportunities to do much from what I saw. Maybe there is more game tape you're able to see that showed he was missing wide open guys or something. I just didn't see that.
0 x

Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8547
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 888

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:48 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:39 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:48 am
I won't argue that there were not times drives were stalled because of failures on the Oline, but our QB was pressured the 11th most of any QB this weekend and the large majority of the time he was not pressured on his drop backs.

Cole was an issue in this game no doubt, but he was not the reason the QB played as poorly as he did.
It's hard to say whether Cousins played badly because I couldn't see if the receivers were getting open. Cousins missed on a few of the early deep attempts. One he overthrew (Conklin?) and the other one was defended by the Bear DB who I thought might have gotten away with PI on the play. As a sidenote, it's incredibly frustrating to rarely if ever see a Vikings WR come down with a 50-50 ball, while opposing WRs seem to always come down with those against the Vikings DBs. But I digress...

The only other things I remember about Cousins were the two easy TD passes to largely wide open receivers. Those were nice throws. Other than that, I really don't recall any instances other than a few short out routes where a Vikings WR was open. There were several short throws on screens that went nowhere and a few safety valves that also got swallowed up quickly. But in terms of downfield attempts even at 10 yards, I don't recall seeing the Vikings WRs ever really open. Not sure if the Bear defenders knew what the playcalls were, but given how tightly a largely inexperienced group of DBs was able to play the receivers (once again, from what I saw, which was limited), it sure didn't look like the Vikings were getting anyone open. Another thing that seemed odd was how effectively the Bear LBs were shooting run gaps. I mean, on the relatively rare occasions when the OL actually blocked the Bear DL players, either Smith or Ogletree was right there seemingly every time. Seemed like the Bears knew exactly what was coming. Either that, or the Vikings were incredibly unlucky.

Anyway, it's hard for me to fault Cousins. I don't think he played well per se, but he didn't have a lot of opportunities to do much from what I saw. Maybe there is more game tape you're able to see that showed he was missing wide open guys or something. I just didn't see that.
I actually said this to my buddy last night as I was watching the game in regards to guys being open. I honestly didn’t see much at all and I think they blanketed the crap out of JJ. The marsette TD shows how much focus they were putting on JJ. That’s why getting Thielen back is huge. For a bears defense that was missing a lot of defensive backs, the game planned extremely well in the back end.

As I said before though, I don’t get why we’ve gotten so far away from play action when that’s cousins bread and butter. Especially the boots. We didn’t take the shots we have as of late as well. This was the classic, let’s be conservative on offense and play good defense zimmer game.

I don’t think cousins played great either but again, I didn’t see a whole lot open. Not sure if that’s on the play caller or the WRs. Cousins numbers looked a lot worse than his play IMO because he hammered in some TDs when we needed them. I mean when cousins has bad numbers, the haters rip him, when he has good numbers, the haters still find ways to rip him. Sometimes the guy just can’t win with some fans. But I’ve said before, I don’t care if cousins threw for 40 yards or 400 yards as long as we win. I’d rather have cousins have this stinker type game against the bears and we still win rather than him having a stinker vs GB or something.
0 x
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri

Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8547
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 888

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:50 pm

In regards to the INT he threw, I think he was viewing that as a free play given the obvious tackle/hold on JJ. He threw to where JJ was suppose to be signifying to the ref “hey my guy got held”. I’ve seen QBs do that hundreds of times. It was definitely a blown call by the refs regardless
0 x
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri

StumpHunter
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 472

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:04 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:39 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:48 am
I won't argue that there were not times drives were stalled because of failures on the Oline, but our QB was pressured the 11th most of any QB this weekend and the large majority of the time he was not pressured on his drop backs.

Cole was an issue in this game no doubt, but he was not the reason the QB played as poorly as he did.
It's hard to say whether Cousins played badly because I couldn't see if the receivers were getting open. Cousins missed on a few of the early deep attempts. One he overthrew (Conklin?) and the other one was defended by the Bear DB who I thought might have gotten away with PI on the play. As a sidenote, it's incredibly frustrating to rarely if ever see a Vikings WR come down with a 50-50 ball, while opposing WRs seem to always come down with those against the Vikings DBs. But I digress...

The only other things I remember about Cousins were the two easy TD passes to largely wide open receivers. Those were nice throws. Other than that, I really don't recall any instances other than a few short out routes where a Vikings WR was open. There were several short throws on screens that went nowhere and a few safety valves that also got swallowed up quickly. But in terms of downfield attempts even at 10 yards, I don't recall seeing the Vikings WRs ever really open. Not sure if the Bear defenders knew what the playcalls were, but given how tightly a largely inexperienced group of DBs was able to play the receivers (once again, from what I saw, which was limited), it sure didn't look like the Vikings were getting anyone open. Another thing that seemed odd was how effectively the Bear LBs were shooting run gaps. I mean, on the relatively rare occasions when the OL actually blocked the Bear DL players, either Smith or Ogletree was right there seemingly every time. Seemed like the Bears knew exactly what was coming. Either that, or the Vikings were incredibly unlucky.

Anyway, it's hard for me to fault Cousins. I don't think he played well per se, but he didn't have a lot of opportunities to do much from what I saw. Maybe there is more game tape you're able to see that showed he was missing wide open guys or something. I just didn't see that.
I would go back and watch the game again. He averaged 3.6 YPA and completed just 50% of his passes, against backup CBs. He played poorly pretty much from start to finish despite having the 2nd longest time to throw when kept clean this week.

I used to think that the primetime thing with Cousins was a bit exaggerated and was really the result of primetime games typically being against better opponents. After the past two games where Cousins came out of the gate inaccurate and making poor decisions against two bad teams, I am starting to believe that narrative is actually a true one.
1 x

Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8547
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 888

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:04 pm

For those wondering about Ezra Cleveland, he ended up leading the offense in PFF grade for the 2nd time in two weeks with an 88.6. Darrisaw was 2nd with 81.3.

Cole was the worst on offense at 40.8 as expected. Bradbury wasn’t far behind with a 48.9.

I said during the game these two were a problem last night. Wondering how much longer Zim is really going to sit Wyatt Davis. Maybe until all our guards get hurt….
0 x
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8981
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1391

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:05 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:50 pm
In regards to the INT he threw, I think he was viewing that as a free play given the obvious tackle/hold on JJ. He threw to where JJ was suppose to be signifying to the ref “hey my guy got held”. I’ve seen QBs do that hundreds of times. It was definitely a blown call by the refs regardless
OK, I'm not a Cousins hater, but he does not get a free pass on this play.

I've watched this play in stop action at least 10 times now. Cousins was looking right at Jefferson the whole time. He saw Jefferson get held. He saw Jefferson get taken to the ground. Yet from the time the grab occurred until Cousins stepped and threw, it was nearly 3 full seconds.

Take a look at this screenshot. Jefferson is down. Cousins is looking right at him and hasn't thrown the ball yet.

Image

This is absolutely inexplicable. It's baffling. It makes no sense. If you KNOW your guy is down, why throw it? Holding happens before you throw the ball. So if you see your guy get held — tackled, even — and you haven't thrown the ball yet, then THROW IT SOMEWHERE ELSE! For example, Osborn is open beyond the sticks. Throw it to him!

Then when he finally did throw it, he unleashed the weirdest, floating lob imaginable. Not a throw you would make if you were actually trying to complete the pass.

Honestly, I have no idea what was going through Cousins' mind. I'm not sure anybody ever does. But it was one of the worst interceptions I've ever seen, and that is NOT a knee-jerk reaction to what I saw live.

I would really like to see the all-22 of that play.
Last edited by J. Kapp 11 on Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8981
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1391

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:11 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:51 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
You've got a Bears defense with 3 defensive backs who have ZERO snaps ... and we throw for 87 yards. I honestly have no idea what this team was doing. Where is the creativity we saw against the Chargers and Packers? Where are the motions, the jet sweep actions, the play-action passes? Why have we gone back to this offensive philosophy that doesn't take advantage of our strengths?
I think this team was getting their @$$e$ handed to them by the Bear defensive line. Cook had literally nowhere to run. On most running plays it seemed he was getting dragged down by a Bear DL, and on the rare plays when there was an actual hole it always seemed like Ogletree or Smith was right there to plug it up immediately. On most passing plays Cousins was under constant duress. Hicks abused Cole all night. I find it almost impossible that Hicks is THAT good and Cole THAT bad, but it was embarrassing for Cole. On the seemingly rare plays where Cousins did have time it seemed like the Bear defenders were all over everyone or Cousins outright missed on the throws. His nicest throws of the night were the two largely uncontested TD passes. Beyond that, it was WOW bad.

So to answer your questions, I think the Vikings were simply outclassed on offense by a really bad defense that either played out-of-their-minds well last night for some reason, or that the Vikings just weren't prepared to play physically or mentally. Bottom line - if you can't control the LOS, you can't do much in terms of creativity.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
Props to the defense for hanging in there as the offense floundered. But honest to god, if the Bears weren't so inept, we might have gotten blown out. They had something like 5 trips inside the red zone that resulted in 0 points.
The defense was largely the same as the one we've seen all year. Give up seemingly 10+ yards per carry on some runs, stuff others cold. Play a little pass defense, but then let wide open guys run free or get easy catches on simple curl patterns. Get some decent pass rush pressure, followed by stretches with no pressure at all.

Maddeningly inconsistent.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
And for the record, the personal foul called against James Lynch was total crap. He couldn't see that Fields' knee was down, and the refs didn't blow the whistle.
I didn't even know a QB could take a knee on a play like that. I honestly can't recall ever seeing one do that before unless it is a kneel down play. I thought Lynch got flagged for body slamming him.

They should take that rule out though that lets a QB take a knee in a situation like that. He can take a knee immediately after the snap, but if he starts moving with the ball, the option to end the play by simply taking a knee should be over just like the QB can't intentionally ground the ball to get out of pressure either.

My concern with the option for a QB to just take a knee is that I can see guys starting to do that if they realize they're about to take a hit and don't have anywhere to go with the ball. Just dip down and if a defensive player either doesn't see it or can't stop their momentum before contact, that's a free 15 yards. Plus, it seems to make it more likely that a defensive player might make contact to the head if the QB is dipping down but not going to the ground, something we saw on the Kendrick's foul where Fields slides but doesn't get his head down. It makes it far more likely that incidental contact to the head will occur and that's also 15 yards on the defense.

Treat it like intentional grounding - if the ball is snapped and the QB starts moving with it, the option to take a knee behind the LOS is over. The QB can slide as a runner, but cannot avoid taking a sack by simply taking a knee.
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:44 pm
Anyway, I'm done ranting. What an awful game. I'm glad we won, but things have GOT to improve offensively. That's three terrible halves in a row since the domination against the Steelers. Get your crap together, Kubiak!!!!
I think it's the OL. They're just getting overmatched yet again and without an effective OL it's hard for anyone to move the ball. Even the best QBs and RBs struggle without blocking.
Yes, the O-line was terrible.

But guess what. So was the Bears'. Yet Justin Fields, a rookie, managed to escape pressure time after time and make plays downfield. If the Bears weren't so inept in the red zone, they would have blown the Vikings out.

I'm tired of the "it's the O-line's fault" excuse. This line is arguably better than the one Kevin Stefanski had to work with, yet Stefanski managed to figure out a way to mitigate pressure. The piss-poor play of this offense is the fault of the OC, and it's the fault of Cousins and the way he falls apart when pressured.

Klint Kubiak knows his quarterback is a basket case under pressure, yet he does nothing to offset it. The whole thing needs to be blown up.

QUICK EDIT: According to PFF, over the past two weeks, Kirk Cousins is 0-for-18 with 2 interceptions when pressured.

We can use bad O-line play to apologize for the quarterback all we want, but to be THAT bad against pressure is inexcusable. At some point, Kirk has to make a play.
1 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by VikingLord » Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:13 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:05 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:50 pm
In regards to the INT he threw, I think he was viewing that as a free play given the obvious tackle/hold on JJ. He threw to where JJ was suppose to be signifying to the ref “hey my guy got held”. I’ve seen QBs do that hundreds of times. It was definitely a blown call by the refs regardless
OK, I'm not a Cousins hater, but he does not get a free pass on this play.

I've watched this play in stop action at least 10 times now. Cousins was looking right at Jefferson the whole time. He saw Jefferson get held. He saw Jefferson get taken to the ground. Yet from the time the grab occurred until Cousins stepped and threw, it was nearly 3 full seconds.

Take a look at this screenshot. Jefferson is down. Cousins is looking right at him and hasn't thrown the ball yet.

Image

This is absolutely inexplicable. It's baffling. It makes no sense. If you KNOW your guy is down, why throw it? Holding happens before you throw the ball. So if you see your guy get held — tackled, even — and you haven't thrown the ball yet, then THROW IT SOMEWHERE ELSE! For example, Osborn is open beyond the sticks. Throw it to him!

Then when he finally did throw it, he unleashed the weirdest, floating lob imaginable. Not a throw you would make if you were actually trying to complete the pass.

Honestly, I have no idea what was going through Cousins' mind. I'm not sure anybody ever does. But it was one of the worst interceptions I've ever seen, and that is NOT a knee-jerk reaction to what I saw live.

I would really like to see the all-22 of that play.
The other odd thing about this play is what the Bears' deep safety does. He too sees JJ go down well in front of him, and yet for some reason he heads deeper into the middle of the field. JJ is down and went down before he could even make his break to show if he was headed to the deep middle or deep sideline. Yet the safety just heads deeper into the middle as if he knows where the route was supposed to go and, as you noted, Cousins lofted the softest lob ball right to that point.

The only explanation I have for what Cousins did on that play (which is not an acceptable decision, but at least makes it understandable) is that he was exaggerating the fact that JJ was taken down and assumed the refs would surely call it. I agree with you that makes zero sense - throw it away in that case if you really feel there is nothing open because you're relying on the refs to throw a flag there otherwise, or, at the very least, throw the ball directly at where JJ went down to call more direct attention to it. Cousins did something I can't recall I've ever seen a QB do in a situation like that. It really calls into question where his mind was last night.

But the Bears safety could not have ever expected Cousins to just lob the ball there either, so it makes me wonder why he headed into that area of the field even though the Vikings literally had no other receiver within 20-30 yards of that spot, nor was any receiver headed deep. Most safeties in that situation would head up the field towards the shorter routes, but not that safety. He too did something inexplicable that almost suggests he knew exactly what the deep route was and just gambled to see if Cousins would throw it.

Inexplicable play on both sides. Cousins should know better than to throw that ball where he threw it, and the Bears defense seemed to be clairvoyant a lot last night, and this play was one of the more glaring examples of that.
0 x

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7447
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 617

Re: Vikings vs Bears

Post by VikingLord » Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:21 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:11 pm
We can use bad O-line play to apologize for the quarterback all we want, but to be THAT bad against pressure is inexcusable. At some point, Kirk has to make a play.
Just for the record, I want Cousins gone after this year. While I think he gets blamed unfairly for much of what goes wrong with the Vikings offense, at the same time his shortcomings make it clear the Vikings have little to no realistic chance of getting to or winning a Superbowl with him at QB. For every great game they get out of him, and he has had some gems over this time in Purple, he also puts up an equal number of stinkers with the majority being average performances. I want the Vikings to stop settling for average and start looking for exceptional, or at least someone who has shown the potential to be exceptional.

But last night the OL was dominated by the Bears as witnessed by Cook's inability to get anything going. Cook played really well the game before and has a knack for finding creases and lanes to get extra yards out of little, but he couldn't get untracked against the Bears, largely because the OL couldn't block consistently (or the Bears knew what was coming somehow, or maybe both). Maybe not everyone on the OL sucked equally but Cousins didn't get a lot of help.
0 x