Steelers @ Vikings post game

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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by makila » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:24 am

VikingLord wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:11 am
makila wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:43 am
Yeah Harrison saved the last play. Their TE had his hands on it. Ben zipped it in there perfect.
Smith had a great game. Very active. I thought he caused a fumble on the earlier play and the Steelers got saved by the review (maybe I'm still bitter about that fumble review against the Bengals to start the season...). He was coming up showing blitz and running back right before the snap. He had the nice sack too. One of his better games.
Yeah he did have a great game. That fumble was really close. He did punch it out almost simultaneously as the shin hit.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by Texas Vike » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:01 am

While I'm tempted to say, "what a crazy game," this kind of game has become the norm for us, to the point that I told my wife when we were up 26-0 that we'd likely find a way to lose it.

Yet again, one can point to this game as a perfect illustration of what the Mike Zimmer era has been like: big explosive plays by some of the best playmakers in the NFL? Check. A defense playing with passion, making effective blitzes and getting sacks on 3rd down? Check. Home crowd helping that effort with an electric atmosphere? Check. Complete and utter lack of discipline, with dumb penalties in key situations, embarrassingly bad coverage, poor tackling at key moments? Check. Allowing the opponent to crawl back into a game/ failing to step on their throats? Check.

What WAS different this game was that we didn't just go into a "save the lead" ultra-conservative offense in the 4th. In fact, Cousins' willingness to throw the ball into tight spaces ended up leading to an uncharacteristic 2 interceptions. He didn't play with his typical excessively conservative mindset. They were TRYING to step on Pitt's throats, they just missed, over and over.

@ Vikinglord: that Harry-caused fumble review was so classic Vikings too. Does anyone doubt whether WE would never have been on the receiving end of that overturned call? I mean, I think they made the right call, but to overturn it? I don't think it was enough and I can't imagine getting that call in our favor.

What also was vintage Zimmer, and this speaks very favorably to his virtues, is that this team had every reason to NOT come out and play hard. To me, it speaks volumes that Dalvin chose to play. The guys were playing HARD and they don't do that for a coach that they want to see fired. I want to move on from Zimmer, but I think it's fair to recognize that he definitely inspires his guys to play hard for him. And yet, they'll likely disappear later in the season when a playoff berth is on the line. We're a purple rollercoaster with Zimmer. I'd like to get off the ride, honestly. :puke:
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:21 am

VikingLord wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:23 am
One last guy who deserves special mention last night is Dalvin Freakin' Cook.

When he went out in San Fran I thought he was done for the year. Two weeks later (and not even a full two weeks since the team was on a short week this week) he not only plays, he piles up the most rushing yards by *any* RB in a single game this season. He did it in the passing game too, hauling in a pass on a key third down late in the game to keep a drive going.

Yeah, he had some nice holes to run through, but he made the most of those and just played with the heart of a Viking. Howie Long gave him major props during the halftime and post game commentary and I have to agree. If that type of performance doesn't inspire everyone, I don't know what can. It was jaw dropping to witness.
Yep, Cook was getting huge holes to run through, but he was turning those into larger gains than most RBs would be able to.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:50 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:01 am
While I'm tempted to say, "what a crazy game," this kind of game has become the norm for us, to the point that I told my wife when we were up 26-0 that we'd likely find a way to lose it.

Yet again, one can point to this game as a perfect illustration of what the Mike Zimmer era has been like: big explosive plays by some of the best playmakers in the NFL? Check. A defense playing with passion, making effective blitzes and getting sacks on 3rd down? Check. Home crowd helping that effort with an electric atmosphere? Check. Complete and utter lack of discipline, with dumb penalties in key situations, embarrassingly bad coverage, poor tackling at key moments? Check. Allowing the opponent to crawl back into a game/ failing to step on their throats? Check.

What WAS different this game was that we didn't just go into a "save the lead" ultra-conservative offense in the 4th. In fact, Cousins' willingness to throw the ball into tight spaces ended up leading to an uncharacteristic 2 interceptions. He didn't play with his typical excessively conservative mindset. They were TRYING to step on Pitt's throats, they just missed, over and over.

@ Vikinglord: that Harry-caused fumble review was so classic Vikings too. Does anyone doubt whether WE would never have been on the receiving end of that overturned call? I mean, I think they made the right call, but to overturn it? I don't think it was enough and I can't imagine getting that call in our favor.

What also was vintage Zimmer, and this speaks very favorably to his virtues, is that this team had every reason to NOT come out and play hard. To me, it speaks volumes that Dalvin chose to play. The guys were playing HARD and they don't do that for a coach that they want to see fired. I want to move on from Zimmer, but I think it's fair to recognize that he definitely inspires his guys to play hard for him. And yet, they'll likely disappear later in the season when a playoff berth is on the line. We're a purple rollercoaster with Zimmer. I'd like to get off the ride, honestly. :puke:
Truthfully I just knew that they would overturn that fumble just because it was US that it would have benefited and it was against the Steelers. My son in law texted and said that should stand since it was called a fumble on the field. I texted back and said " Doesn't matter, it will be overturned. If it was Pittsburgh it would stand". And then they overturned it.
Anybody else catch the fact that they called us for delay of game that one time, but Pittsburgh had a play that they sure seemed to snap it later than we did, but it wasn't called??? Aikman even brought it up but said" It's a subjective call for the official to make so he didn't think it was too late" . That's a paraphrase but it was to that effect. I just felt the plays were very similar but we were flagged and they weren't. Just the crap we as Vikes fans have come to accept as the norm sadly.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by CharVike » Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:00 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:01 am
While I'm tempted to say, "what a crazy game," this kind of game has become the norm for us, to the point that I told my wife when we were up 26-0 that we'd likely find a way to lose it.

Yet again, one can point to this game as a perfect illustration of what the Mike Zimmer era has been like: big explosive plays by some of the best playmakers in the NFL? Check. A defense playing with passion, making effective blitzes and getting sacks on 3rd down? Check. Home crowd helping that effort with an electric atmosphere? Check. Complete and utter lack of discipline, with dumb penalties in key situations, embarrassingly bad coverage, poor tackling at key moments? Check. Allowing the opponent to crawl back into a game/ failing to step on their throats? Check.

What WAS different this game was that we didn't just go into a "save the lead" ultra-conservative offense in the 4th. In fact, Cousins' willingness to throw the ball into tight spaces ended up leading to an uncharacteristic 2 interceptions. He didn't play with his typical excessively conservative mindset. They were TRYING to step on Pitt's throats, they just missed, over and over.

@ Vikinglord: that Harry-caused fumble review was so classic Vikings too. Does anyone doubt whether WE would never have been on the receiving end of that overturned call? I mean, I think they made the right call, but to overturn it? I don't think it was enough and I can't imagine getting that call in our favor.

What also was vintage Zimmer, and this speaks very favorably to his virtues, is that this team had every reason to NOT come out and play hard. To me, it speaks volumes that Dalvin chose to play. The guys were playing HARD and they don't do that for a coach that they want to see fired. I want to move on from Zimmer, but I think it's fair to recognize that he definitely inspires his guys to play hard for him. And yet, they'll likely disappear later in the season when a playoff berth is on the line. We're a purple rollercoaster with Zimmer. I'd like to get off the ride, honestly. :puke:
The guys have always played hard for Zimmer. He has that piece of the puzzle figured out. It's every other piece that he can't figure out which has done him in. He's stuck in his old ways and can't change. His run the clock out BS cost us all season. He needs to be booted regardless of beating this so so Steeler junk team. We are almost mirror image of them and if we played 17 times we would get the edge 9-8 and that's only because of the QB. Of course Cousins was never in Big Ben's league but Ben is finished at this point. A good game here and there and that's about it. I do feel Zim will get another year because he has all the injury excuses lined up. We also have Cousins for another season and they are joined with trader down. All 3 will be back and I do feel it would be best to dump Cousins and get something while you can. But we can't go into next year with no QB. That's a hard product to sell to the owners. They want a competitive team. They are spending for that. They could pocket more money if they spent to CAP min but they don't.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:27 pm

Bowhunting Viking wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:50 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:01 am
While I'm tempted to say, "what a crazy game," this kind of game has become the norm for us, to the point that I told my wife when we were up 26-0 that we'd likely find a way to lose it.

Yet again, one can point to this game as a perfect illustration of what the Mike Zimmer era has been like: big explosive plays by some of the best playmakers in the NFL? Check. A defense playing with passion, making effective blitzes and getting sacks on 3rd down? Check. Home crowd helping that effort with an electric atmosphere? Check. Complete and utter lack of discipline, with dumb penalties in key situations, embarrassingly bad coverage, poor tackling at key moments? Check. Allowing the opponent to crawl back into a game/ failing to step on their throats? Check.

What WAS different this game was that we didn't just go into a "save the lead" ultra-conservative offense in the 4th. In fact, Cousins' willingness to throw the ball into tight spaces ended up leading to an uncharacteristic 2 interceptions. He didn't play with his typical excessively conservative mindset. They were TRYING to step on Pitt's throats, they just missed, over and over.

@ Vikinglord: that Harry-caused fumble review was so classic Vikings too. Does anyone doubt whether WE would never have been on the receiving end of that overturned call? I mean, I think they made the right call, but to overturn it? I don't think it was enough and I can't imagine getting that call in our favor.

What also was vintage Zimmer, and this speaks very favorably to his virtues, is that this team had every reason to NOT come out and play hard. To me, it speaks volumes that Dalvin chose to play. The guys were playing HARD and they don't do that for a coach that they want to see fired. I want to move on from Zimmer, but I think it's fair to recognize that he definitely inspires his guys to play hard for him. And yet, they'll likely disappear later in the season when a playoff berth is on the line. We're a purple rollercoaster with Zimmer. I'd like to get off the ride, honestly. :puke:
Truthfully I just knew that they would overturn that fumble just because it was US that it would have benefited and it was against the Steelers. My son in law texted and said that should stand since it was called a fumble on the field. I texted back and said " Doesn't matter, it will be overturned. If it was Pittsburgh it would stand". And then they overturned it.
Anybody else catch the fact that they called us for delay of game that one time, but Pittsburgh had a play that they sure seemed to snap it later than we did, but it wasn't called??? Aikman even brought it up but said" It's a subjective call for the official to make so he didn't think it was too late" . That's a paraphrase but it was to that effect. I just felt the plays were very similar but we were flagged and they weren't. Just the crap we as Vikes fans have come to accept as the norm sadly.
Yeah, I noticed those two instances, as well.

My issue was just with the officiating in general. They threw so many flags — 21 accepted penalties between the two teams. The old saying is that you could call holding on every play. So to me, the difference in officiating crews is which ones throw a lot of flags, and which ones let you play a little. These guys were calling everything. Like Buck and Aikman said, you could count on a flag every kick or punt return, and they made it worse by always huddling up and waffling on what they wanted to call. Or they'd call a penalty, then pick up the flag. While I don't think it was particularly one-sided, I found it to be a poorly officiated game all around. I just hate it when the refs become the show.

As for inspiration, I guess Zimmer gets some credit. But honestly, I think Dalvin Cook deserves just as much, if not more. I mean, that guy came in Monday after the Lions loss, a game he sat out, and was the first guy in the weight room. That team follows Cook's lead, and he definitely led them in this one. I mean, 27 carries for 205 yards plus an incredible catch near the end ... only 11 days after tearing his labrum. What teammate wouldn't run through a wall for him? Zimmer called him a warrior. Finally Zimmer got something right. I have a whole new level of respect for Dalvin Cook.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:46 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:12 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:21 am


Agreed because Oli Udoh once again gets a hold on crunch time. Never fails. He should go right to the bench
Yeah, he also was helping open up huge holes for Cook the entire game and keeping his QB sackless. Zimmer sure is an idiot for moving that Oline around huh?

Speaking of sackless QBs, Udoh was the problem in crunch time and not the 2 ints? :lol:
Hey, troll that's making a fool of himself by defending Mike Zimmer and Oli flipping Udoh, I could care less what you have to say. Stop trolling and trying to create your own narrative with something I never said
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:05 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:46 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:12 am


Yeah, he also was helping open up huge holes for Cook the entire game and keeping his QB sackless. Zimmer sure is an idiot for moving that Oline around huh?

Speaking of sackless QBs, Udoh was the problem in crunch time and not the 2 ints? :lol:
Hey, troll that's making a fool of himself by defending Mike Zimmer and Oli flipping Udoh, I could care less what you have to say. Stop trolling and trying to create your own narrative with something I never said
You weren't the one upset about Zimmer moving around the Oline against the Lions? Udoh is just another backup quality olineman that should be benched once Darrisaw comes back, but he is by far the best option with Darrisaw out and the move of Bradbury and Cole was clearly the right decision.

I will defend right moves by the coach and I will point out when a player does well regardless of what whiney fans have to say about it. Not every move Zimmer makes is wrong and not everything Udoh does on the field is bad. I give credit where credit is due and place blame where it is deserved even if it doesn't necessarily fit the ongoing narrative. You should try it sometime.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:10 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:05 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:46 am


Hey, troll that's making a fool of himself by defending Mike Zimmer and Oli flipping Udoh, I could care less what you have to say. Stop trolling and trying to create your own narrative with something I never said
You weren't the one upset about Zimmer moving around the Oline against the Lions? Udoh is just another backup quality olineman that should be benched once Darrisaw comes back, but he is by far the best option with Darrisaw out and the move of Bradbury and Cole was clearly the right decision.

I will defend right moves by the coach and I will point out when a player does well regardless of what whiney fans have to say about it. Not every move Zimmer makes is wrong and not everything Udoh does on the field is bad. I give credit where credit is due and place blame where it is deserved even if it doesn't necessarily fit the ongoing narrative. You should try it sometime.
Oli Udoh gave up 6 pressures vs. Pitt. However, with that bad protection, Cousins was able to get the ball out quick enough to avoid being sacked. Just check your favorite stat site.... you'll find the proof there. I'm sure you knew this, but why would you use it? It doesnt fit your narrative. But yeah, pretty much everything Oli Udoh does on the field is..... bad.

Regardless, you're trolling trying to create this into another one of your famous Cousins arguments when that wasnt even what I was referring to at all. I was simply replying to someone's post that said "I hope Darrisaw is back soon". But your obsession with replying to my posts got the best of you even though I've told you time and time again to stop. No I wont go make up my own narratives. Nor will I listen to whiney fans try and stir the pot day in and day out and only come around when the Vikings are playing bad and he has his narrative all planned out. You only wish you had that type of control over me pal and someone actually gave a flying f### about your opinion. Unfortunately nobody does. Sorry, not sorry. So once again, avoid my posts, I have zero care to talk to you.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by VikingLord » Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:44 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:10 pm
You only wish you had that type of control over me pal and someone actually gave a flying f### about your opinion. Unfortunately nobody does.
Please speak for yourself.

I personally enjoy reading Stump's perspectives, as I do yours.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by VikingLord » Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:53 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:05 am
I will defend right moves by the coach and I will point out when a player does well regardless of what whiney fans have to say about it. Not every move Zimmer makes is wrong and not everything Udoh does on the field is bad. I give credit where credit is due and place blame where it is deserved even if it doesn't necessarily fit the ongoing narrative. You should try it sometime.
There is no doubt in my mind at all that moving Udoh out to right tackle was the right move, both in terms of his ability and potential as well as in terms of Udoh being much better at that position than Rashod Hill was.

Udoh actually gets movement in the run game at RT. He struggled to do that on the interior, mostly because he's too tall and interior defenders could get up under his pads more easily and stand him up. Out at tackle, he can get moving forward and lean into defenders before making contact, and that's when his size and power are maximized. I've seen several plays where he's driving defenders several yards downfield. Hill couldn't do that. At best he was standing guys up at the LOS on run plays. I think Udoh's ability to completely dominate the guy across from him on run downs is helping Cleveland as well. He doesn't have to worry about Udoh's guy beating the block and intruding on his blocking assignment.

Darrisaw is still the best natural LT on the team as he has both size and power along with the ability to move his feet, but Udoh has been a light years improvement over Hill at RT and I don't think that can be credibly disputed. I have yet to see Udoh dumped on his rear by a pass rusher and doubt I will ever see that.

Udoh's biggest issue both when he played inside and outside seems to be his conditioning. He seems to wear down later in games and when he wears down he starts to get sloppy and that's when the mistakes show up. But when he's fresh he's a beast.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:48 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:44 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:10 pm
You only wish you had that type of control over me pal and someone actually gave a flying f### about your opinion. Unfortunately nobody does.
Please speak for yourself.

I personally enjoy reading Stump's perspectives, as I do yours.
Ok sorry you’re one of very few that do then
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:54 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:10 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:05 am


You weren't the one upset about Zimmer moving around the Oline against the Lions? Udoh is just another backup quality olineman that should be benched once Darrisaw comes back, but he is by far the best option with Darrisaw out and the move of Bradbury and Cole was clearly the right decision.

I will defend right moves by the coach and I will point out when a player does well regardless of what whiney fans have to say about it. Not every move Zimmer makes is wrong and not everything Udoh does on the field is bad. I give credit where credit is due and place blame where it is deserved even if it doesn't necessarily fit the ongoing narrative. You should try it sometime.
Oli Udoh gave up 6 pressures vs. Pitt. However, with that bad protection, Cousins was able to get the ball out quick enough to avoid being sacked. Just check your favorite stat site.... you'll find the proof there. I'm sure you knew this, but why would you use it? It doesnt fit your narrative. But yeah, pretty much everything Oli Udoh does on the field is.....
Just checked my favorite site and Udoh did not give up 6 pressures against Pitt.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:57 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:53 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:05 am
I will defend right moves by the coach and I will point out when a player does well regardless of what whiney fans have to say about it. Not every move Zimmer makes is wrong and not everything Udoh does on the field is bad. I give credit where credit is due and place blame where it is deserved even if it doesn't necessarily fit the ongoing narrative. You should try it sometime.
There is no doubt in my mind at all that moving Udoh out to right tackle was the right move, both in terms of his ability and potential as well as in terms of Udoh being much better at that position than Rashod Hill was.

Udoh actually gets movement in the run game at RT. He struggled to do that on the interior, mostly because he's too tall and interior defenders could get up under his pads more easily and stand him up. Out at tackle, he can get moving forward and lean into defenders before making contact, and that's when his size and power are maximized. I've seen several plays where he's driving defenders several yards downfield. Hill couldn't do that. At best he was standing guys up at the LOS on run plays. I think Udoh's ability to completely dominate the guy across from him on run downs is helping Cleveland as well. He doesn't have to worry about Udoh's guy beating the block and intruding on his blocking assignment.

Darrisaw is still the best natural LT on the team as he has both size and power along with the ability to move his feet, but Udoh has been a light years improvement over Hill at RT and I don't think that can be credibly disputed. I have yet to see Udoh dumped on his rear by a pass rusher and doubt I will ever see that.

Udoh's biggest issue both when he played inside and outside seems to be his conditioning. He seems to wear down later in games and when he wears down he starts to get sloppy and that's when the mistakes show up. But when he's fresh he's a beast.
I honestly don’t have any idea where any of you are coming from with this. Udoh literally had the worst grade of any offensive player in week 13 against Detroit (51.6) and week 14 against Pitt (43.7). These are both games he was at offensive tackle. How in any way was that a good move? The guy has committed FIFTEEN penalties. And most being in crunch time. I mean regardless, neither him or Hill are good. But Udoh should be parking his as# on the bench when Darrisaw is back.
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Re: Steelers @ Vikings post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:39 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:53 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:05 am
I will defend right moves by the coach and I will point out when a player does well regardless of what whiney fans have to say about it. Not every move Zimmer makes is wrong and not everything Udoh does on the field is bad. I give credit where credit is due and place blame where it is deserved even if it doesn't necessarily fit the ongoing narrative. You should try it sometime.
There is no doubt in my mind at all that moving Udoh out to right tackle was the right move, both in terms of his ability and potential as well as in terms of Udoh being much better at that position than Rashod Hill was.

Udoh actually gets movement in the run game at RT. He struggled to do that on the interior, mostly because he's too tall and interior defenders could get up under his pads more easily and stand him up. Out at tackle, he can get moving forward and lean into defenders before making contact, and that's when his size and power are maximized. I've seen several plays where he's driving defenders several yards downfield. Hill couldn't do that. At best he was standing guys up at the LOS on run plays. I think Udoh's ability to completely dominate the guy across from him on run downs is helping Cleveland as well. He doesn't have to worry about Udoh's guy beating the block and intruding on his blocking assignment.

Darrisaw is still the best natural LT on the team as he has both size and power along with the ability to move his feet, but Udoh has been a light years improvement over Hill at RT and I don't think that can be credibly disputed. I have yet to see Udoh dumped on his rear by a pass rusher and doubt I will ever see that.

Udoh's biggest issue both when he played inside and outside seems to be his conditioning. He seems to wear down later in games and when he wears down he starts to get sloppy and that's when the mistakes show up. But when he's fresh he's a beast.
Just to clarify, Udoh hasn't been playing RT. That's Brian O'Neill. He's been playing LT.
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