Vikings @ Lions post game

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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by Purple Reign » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:04 am

I have a question about the end of the game. I understand that in overtime a td ends the game and there is no need for the PAT, or if on the final play of regulation a td wins and the PAT has no impact on the outcome. In this case, a botched PAT by the Lions and the Vikings returning it for 2 points would have tied the game. I understand the chance of that happening was almost 0 since the Lions would have just done a kneel down, but that's not the point. There was still a chance and as long as there was a chance they should have attempted the PAT. Or is there a rule that says a PAT doesn't have to be attempted in that case? Anyone know the rule?
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by Dmizzle0 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:58 am

Zim won't get Zammed because it's a short week.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by Hunter Morrow » Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:28 am

Purple Reign wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:04 am
Or is there a rule that says a PAT doesn't have to be attempted in that case? Anyone know the rule?
It was a rules change to regulation and overtime games due to the Vikings having to kick an extra point following the Minneapolis Miracle.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/276 ... regulation

It will be a Minneapolis Miracle if the Wilfs recognize the correct course of action is full rebuild and get rid of Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins. No aspect of this trio should be retained.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by Barry » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:18 am

Hunter Morrow wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:28 am
Purple Reign wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:04 am
Or is there a rule that says a PAT doesn't have to be attempted in that case? Anyone know the rule?
It was a rules change to regulation and overtime games due to the Vikings having to kick an extra point following the Minneapolis Miracle.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/276 ... regulation
I was unaware of this, good info. Thanks
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by Barry » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:18 am

Hunter Morrow wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:28 am
Purple Reign wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:04 am
Or is there a rule that says a PAT doesn't have to be attempted in that case? Anyone know the rule?
It was a rules change to regulation and overtime games due to the Vikings having to kick an extra point following the Minneapolis Miracle.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/276 ... regulation
I was unaware of this, good info. Thanks
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:31 am

CharVike wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:30 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:37 pm


I would add in roster adjustment that he’s also horrendous at.

Having Udoh at LT today was inexcusable. The guy has never played LT in his life. He’s not a good guard to begin with let alone LT. Udoh was so worried about getting out into his kick slide that he had two very costly false starts. He also was pushed back into cousins multiple times. I’m not a Rashod Hill fan by any means but at least he has the experience. Udoh reminded me of Everson Griffen trying to time the snap of the ball. The pathetic part is, Udoh actually knows what the count is.

The flat out ignoring of Wyatt Davis even being on this roster really drives me insane. He’s the former Big 10 offensive lineman of the year and a TRUE guard. Not a makeshift tackle that they put at guard. When Udoh is playing this bad at guard, or any position for that matter, are we really worried about making it worse?! It’s no different than when Cleveland eventually went in for Samia last year (by default due to Samia being injured). We saw a drastic change at the RG spot.

On a side note, I thought Blake Lynch made a lot of big plays.

But in regards to Zimmer, I’ve been calling for his firing for idk how long now. He is so petrified of making a mistake and blowing the game and it’s continuing to backfire on him. He continues to coach like it’s 2017 and he has the best defense in the nfl. I called it at the start of the lions last drive when he continued to sit back and let Goff nickel and dime them down the field. Goff who is ANOTHER QB that Zim has played that craps his pants under pressure and we send 1 blitz (others being Garoppolo, Rush, Mayfield, etc). The rest of the time he just sat back in your standard old prevent defense, rushing 4, leaving the middle of the field wide open and playing his corners 10 yards off.

The fact that all the lions WR had to do was sit down in front of the DB shows how far back he was playing. It was the most uncontested final play of a game I’ve ever seen.

People can blame cousins all they want, he once again put this team in position to win, in the clutch. And someone else once again blows it. In this case Zimmer. I don’t care who he was missing on defense, he applied zero pressure to Goff and let him sit back there and relax. His timeout management at the end was also pathetic.

Also, Zim needs to stop with his childish game he’s playing with Dantzler. I trust Dantzler 10x more than I do Breeland. Breeland is lazy and played lazy again today.

Sitting Davis and moving Udoh all over the OL like he’s our best player is inexcusable. I don’t care if you guys say, well maybe Davis doesn’t practice well and isn’t ready. That’s what we all said about Cleveland and he was an improvement, that’s what was said for O’Neill in 2018 and he was an improvement. Jefferson isn’t the immediate starter day 1 and ends up being a drastic improvement over Bisi. Play your best damn players. Period.

Zim needs to be fired ASAP but unfortunately it won’t happen. They will let him play the season out and if we somehow make playoffs he will keep his job. I don’t see Spielman needing to be fired. He has provided talent on this team, Zim just finds ways to piss it away. He coaches scared. Literally petrified of making the wrong decision or call. And in turn he continues to make bad calls and adjustments that hurt this team. Get a guy in here that will utilize the talent Spielman has provided. Enough is enough
Hill should have been the fill in at LT. That's why he's on the roster. I don't understanding the shifting either.
Hill isn't very good, and should be proof that this "super talented team" is not so talented at all.

Hill had a 39.5 PFF grade overll, 45.2 and 36.5 run blocking and pass blocking grade and averaged giving up 4.25 pressures per game in the first 4 weeks of the season, prior to Darrisaw taking over. Udoh was actually an improvement over that disaster, giving up 4 pressures, and grading out at 51.6 (70/40.3) and doing an excellent job in the run game.

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would go on a message board and read people upset that Rashod Hill didn't start, but here we are.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:16 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:31 am
CharVike wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:30 pm

Hill should have been the fill in at LT. That's why he's on the roster. I don't understanding the shifting either.
Hill isn't very good, and should be proof that this "super talented team" is not so talented at all.

Hill had a 39.5 PFF grade overll, 45.2 and 36.5 run blocking and pass blocking grade and averaged giving up 4.25 pressures per game in the first 4 weeks of the season, prior to Darrisaw taking over. Udoh was actually an improvement over that disaster, giving up 4 pressures, and grading out at 51.6 (70/40.3) and doing an excellent job in the run game.

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would go on a message board and read people upset that Rashod Hill didn't start, but here we are.
I think it's more that the Vikings responded to an injury to one player by shuffling three. It just feels like more dysfunction.

On the flip side, Udoh's natural position is tackle, not guard, so in some strange way it makes sense.

In the end, playing Udoh at LT certainly didn't cost the Vikings the game. Or at least it's WAY down the list of things that did.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:33 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:16 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:31 am

Hill isn't very good, and should be proof that this "super talented team" is not so talented at all.

Hill had a 39.5 PFF grade overll, 45.2 and 36.5 run blocking and pass blocking grade and averaged giving up 4.25 pressures per game in the first 4 weeks of the season, prior to Darrisaw taking over. Udoh was actually an improvement over that disaster, giving up 4 pressures, and grading out at 51.6 (70/40.3) and doing an excellent job in the run game.

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would go on a message board and read people upset that Rashod Hill didn't start, but here we are.
I think it's more that the Vikings responded to an injury to one player by shuffling three. It just feels like more dysfunction.

On the flip side, Udoh's natural position is tackle, not guard, so in some strange way it makes sense.

In the end, playing Udoh at LT certainly didn't cost the Vikings the game. Or at least it's WAY down the list of things that did.
The Oline actually did a relatively decent job yesterday, giving up only 12 pressures (5 by the Cleveland who wasn't a part of the shuffling and who is looking like another bust), and run blocking very well.

Bradbury had a great game (for him) and Cole is a better guard than center so I am hoping those two moves are permanent. I also like Udoh playing versus Hill for obvious reasons. When Darrisaw comes back, bench Udoh and the line might be better than it was before Darrisaw went down.

All this to say, if you have an issue with Udoh starting yesterday, you should really be upset with the GM who put together a team that needed to start Rashod Hill at the most important spot on the Oline. Not be a backup, start. We got nothing after Darrisaw, which is disturbing considering we knew Darrisaw was a big injury risk.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by CharVike » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:40 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:31 am
CharVike wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:30 pm

Hill should have been the fill in at LT. That's why he's on the roster. I don't understanding the shifting either.
Hill isn't very good, and should be proof that this "super talented team" is not so talented at all.

Hill had a 39.5 PFF grade overll, 45.2 and 36.5 run blocking and pass blocking grade and averaged giving up 4.25 pressures per game in the first 4 weeks of the season, prior to Darrisaw taking over. Udoh was actually an improvement over that disaster, giving up 4 pressures, and grading out at 51.6 (70/40.3) and doing an excellent job in the run game.

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would go on a message board and read people upset that Rashod Hill didn't start, but here we are.
Hill sucks everyone knows that. To move Udoh who also sucks they then moved Cole who sucks who was playing for Bradbury who sucks over to Udoh's spot an inserted Bradbury back at center. So instead of inserting one guy they shuffled 3 guys. That makes sense to you?
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by CharVike » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:43 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:33 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:16 am

I think it's more that the Vikings responded to an injury to one player by shuffling three. It just feels like more dysfunction.

On the flip side, Udoh's natural position is tackle, not guard, so in some strange way it makes sense.

In the end, playing Udoh at LT certainly didn't cost the Vikings the game. Or at least it's WAY down the list of things that did.
The Oline actually did a relatively decent job yesterday, giving up only 12 pressures (5 by the Cleveland who wasn't a part of the shuffling and who is looking like another bust), and run blocking very well.

Bradbury had a great game (for him) and Cole is a better guard than center so I am hoping those two moves are permanent. I also like Udoh playing versus Hill for obvious reasons. When Darrisaw comes back, bench Udoh and the line might be better than it was before Darrisaw went down.

All this to say, if you have an issue with Udoh starting yesterday, you should really be upset with the GM who put together a team that needed to start Rashod Hill at the most important spot on the Oline. Not be a backup, start. We got nothing after Darrisaw, which is disturbing considering we knew Darrisaw was a big injury risk.
A good OL job is letting the QB get destroyed from the blind side and the ball knocked out. That's not a good job. They had moments of good play but the game isn't a moment it's much longer.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:54 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:43 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:33 am

The Oline actually did a relatively decent job yesterday, giving up only 12 pressures (5 by the Cleveland who wasn't a part of the shuffling and who is looking like another bust), and run blocking very well.

Bradbury had a great game (for him) and Cole is a better guard than center so I am hoping those two moves are permanent. I also like Udoh playing versus Hill for obvious reasons. When Darrisaw comes back, bench Udoh and the line might be better than it was before Darrisaw went down.

All this to say, if you have an issue with Udoh starting yesterday, you should really be upset with the GM who put together a team that needed to start Rashod Hill at the most important spot on the Oline. Not be a backup, start. We got nothing after Darrisaw, which is disturbing considering we knew Darrisaw was a big injury risk.
A good OL job is letting the QB get destroyed from the blind side and the ball knocked out. That's not a good job. They had moments of good play but the game isn't a moment it's much longer.
And yet ... you highlight a single play to make your point.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by IIsweet » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:01 am

If people are being moved... Why not put Cleveland at OT, move Cole or Davis to OG and leave Udoh ?
That's his natural position anyways...
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by VikingLord » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:09 am

Sad game for the Vikings, especially given where they are in the season and what they had to gain.

- I don't give Cousins credit. Sure, he turned it on in the 2nd half and made some nice plays, but where is that intensity and effort in the 1st half? Where was it most of the game last week? In the 1st half Cousins was back to his old conservative, check down self. It was only when the Vikings got way behind that he started throwing it down the field, and shockingly, the offense started moving and scoring when he did that. Cousins has the demeanor and personality of his head coach - play not to lose, keep it uber-conservative, and then do a mad scramble if that doesn't work. I don't know if that is Cousins' fault or Zimmer's fault, but whose ever fault it is, it's like an infectious disease that takes over the team and leads to largely predictable results. I'm tired of watching it.

- How 'bout that defense? Can't stop Goff much of the game. Can't stop the run. Soft on the pass. They, like their head coach and QB, can do the Chinese fire drill when necessary to claw their way back into games. However they, like their head coach and QB, also play way too passive when it matters most, especially on that last drive. Rush three against a QB known to fold under pressure. Check. Sit back in a deep zone with all of your defenders deeper than the opposing team's receivers that entire drive, making every underneath throw a simple pitch-and-catch all the way down the field. Check. Then, when the other team needs that same type of throw and they can't hit you deep over the top, sit *all* of your DBs deeper than their receivers have to go to turn and score. Check. Don't layer your defenders so that you have a deeper group that can jump on any pass thrown and an underneath group that can contest passing lanes. No, have freakin' *every* DB sitting deep in the endzone, give the opposing QB all sorts of time and clear sight lines, and just hope what, the guy drops it?

- Dantzler and Woods should both be released. Today. I don't care if Zimmer called that defensive alignment. If you are a DB in that situation and you don't know what you need to do and/or are unable to do it, what are you doing in the NFL? Dantzler in particular played like crap most of the game. Uber soft coverages. He got a pick, but it looks like he blew his coverage to get it and Goff just didn't see him. But that last play was inexplicable, unforgiveable. The worst play I've seen from any pro DB since the Saints safety missed on Diggs in the playoff game. He was so passive and so late breaking on it he couldn't even get a hand in there to contest it.

- 2 point conversions? Zimmer, your team tried 3 of them and failed on every freaking one. They weren't even close. Not only that, but I think the offense has made one of their attempts all season. 2 point conversions are statistically a 50-50 play. Not for this offense.

- Don't be shocked if the Vikings lose again to the Steelers. Yes, the Vikings need that game. Yes, that game is at home. Yes, you can be 100% sure that the way Zimmer and Cousins approach the game if the Vikings get a lead they'll try to sit on it, while if the defense needs a stop they'll sit back passively and give it up. It's like a broken record now. For the Vikings to win, they need their opponent to screw up, and sometimes even that isn't going to be enough because Zimmer and Cousins just can't bring themselves to play to win. They both play not to lose and it's infected the entire organization now from top to bottom. Afraid. The team reeks of fear. Fear of friggin' lifesaving vaccines to keep players healthy and on the field. Fear of taking any risks at all unless basically forced. Fear of losing something they don't even have yet which is a playoff spot and maybe a chance.

When does this nightmare of a regime finally end? When will the Wilfs finally say enough and try something else?
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:27 am

IIsweet wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:01 am
If people are being moved... Why not put Cleveland at OT, move Cole or Davis to OG and leave Udoh ?
That's his natural position anyways...
Cleveland has never played a snap in practice/game or anything as a tackle in the NFL. Udoh at least has played some tackle in this scheme.

There weren't any good options at LT for this game and at least Udoh run blocked well there.
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Re: Vikings @ Lions post game

Post by Purple Reign » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:48 am

Hunter Morrow wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:28 am
It was a rules change to regulation and overtime games due to the Vikings having to kick an extra point following the Minneapolis Miracle.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/276 ... regulation
Thanks for the info. I understand that the PAT isn't needed in overtime or in the case where the PAT doesn't affect the outcome of a game in regulation, but when the defense can still win or tie the game with returning the PAT for 2 points then I think they should still require the PAT attempt IMO.
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