Vikings @ Ravens post game

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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:09 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:47 pm
Teddy was allowed to check out of plays even as a rookie. Bradford was allowed to do it. Case was allowed to do it. Zimmer has stated Cousins is also allowed to, and does, check out of plays.

It sure doesn't seem like he does though and you watch him at the line versus other 10 year vets and the perception is that he just goes with whatever is called. Maybe he is just more subtle with his audibles than a Brady or Rodgers.
The only check Teddy did was AP right or left. He wasn't scanning the field looking for the deep 60 yard post. Zim states alot and shows off a bunch of stats in press conferences. I highly doubt the Ravens 500 yards was showed off or talked about. Cousins could care less right now. What comes in is what he does. He's a beaten dog. If we had a HC who could think once the script is over go to plan B and bring another body in. If that don't work use plan C. Keep going see if you hit gold. If not bring Kirk back in for the last drive and see if we can get into FG range.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:44 pm

CharVike wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:09 pm
The only check Teddy did was AP right or left. He wasn't scanning the field looking for the deep 60 yard post.
No QB checks into a 60 yard post and Teddy didn't have AP as a rookie, not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Just as an aside, Teddy is 7th in average depth of target and 5th in number deep shots taken so far this season.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:09 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:44 pm
CharVike wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:09 pm
The only check Teddy did was AP right or left. He wasn't scanning the field looking for the deep 60 yard post.
No QB checks into a 60 yard post and Teddy didn't have AP as a rookie, not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Just as an aside, Teddy is 7th in average depth of target and 5th in number deep shots taken so far this season.
My point is I highly doubt Zim opens the playbook up for a check. Teddy wasn't chucking the rock to far against the Browns because he avg 5.6 an attempt on 33 tries. He must have had some big ones and good for him. Playoffs look like a lock. Not to much in his way. But that division is tough. Really that entire AFC looks to be wide open. That's good for the game. That Titian squad will be hard on anybody.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by VikingLord » Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:48 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:47 pm
It sure doesn't seem like he does though and you watch him at the line versus other 10 year vets and the perception is that he just goes with whatever is called. Maybe he is just more subtle with his audibles than a Brady or Rodgers.
There were many times during the Ravens game where the Vikings seemingly made no pre-snap protection adjustments. In fact, I can't recall the last game I watched where a defense managed to have so many free runners at the QB. The Vikings were either unable to recognize these blitzers pre-snap, or, as you are alluding, simply failed to adjust protections or hot routes to counter them.

The other thing that stood out to me was how ineffective Cousins was at beating the blitz generally. There were times when he had time, and any time a defense sends extra rushers there has to be some sort of gap left in the defense where that rusher would otherwise have responsibility. And yet, time after time the Vikings just basically chucked and ducked. They seemed completely unable or unwilling to adjust what they were doing, and the Ravens just ate them for lunch in the second half.

If this is Cousins failing to adjust, why is he still the starting QB? Yeah, he's getting paid boku bucks and sitting his butt would not reflect well on the decision to extend him and pay him that guaranteed salary, but at the same time, he's got to have not just latitude to adjust plays and protections pre-snap, but the willingness to do it. If he's not doing that, shame on him, but more importantly, shame on Zimmer for keeping him out there. I don't think any modern NFL offense can thrive without pre-snap adjustments.

If this is Zimmer or Kubiak failing to adjust, that's a different story. If they've choked the life out of Cousins and are impeding his ability to modify what is called and/or be more aggressive downfield, then they're the ones who need to be on the dock.

But I just don't think Zimmer holds his cards that close to the vest. There are clearly deeper routes being called. The Vikings clearly have the skill position players to succeed in those routes, even if the ball is contested in the air. It seems pretty clear to me that Cousins is not looking deep most of the time, and on the rare times he does, he's letting it fly when the downfield receiver is more or less wide open.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:26 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:33 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:21 am

Also, let's not forget ... Mike Zimmer was not a fan of Case Keenum. Maybe it's because Keenum said, "Screw the coaches, I'm doing the right thing." Who knows?
Zimmer wasn't a fan of Keenum because he was a backup level QB. That should be pretty obvious by now.
Instead of claiming anyone on a fan message board has access to the inner workings of the mind of Mike Zimmer, why don’t we look at what Zimmer has actually said?

Here’s Zimmer’s comment, directly after Keenum played one of the best games of his career in the Vikings’ 24-7 win over the Rams in November of 2017.
He’s got a horseshoe right now.
I don’t have any idea why he said that, and neither do you. What we do know is that Keenum was pressured on more than 40% of his dropbacks that game, yet wasn’t sacked and went 27-for-38 for 280 yards and a touchdown. Even playing such a great game, his coach essentially said he was lucky. Inspiring.

Looking deeper into Zimmer quotes, I present this gem, offered right before the Thanksgiving game in Detroit.
The thing I like the most about Case is he’s got big balls. He’s not afraid. He’s going to pull the trigger and he is going to play like that. That’s a good thing.
At first glance, that sounds like a coach supporting his quarterback. But is it? As a matter of fact, Zimmer’s answer actually was a deflection. A reporter had asked whether Zimmer was ready to name Keenum as the starter — even though the Vikings were 8-2 with a 2-game lead in the division, Zimmer wouldn’t do it. Instead, he talked about what he liked about Keenum.

So here is MY opinion, based on a preponderance of the evidence. Mike Zimmer has only liked one quarterback in his 8 years as head coach of the Minnesota Vikings — Teddy Bridgewater. Every other quarterback to walk through the door has been hot garbage in Zimmer’s mind. Zimmer apologists will claim his feelings are justified. Who cares? You can’t win that way.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:35 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:26 pm
He’s got a horseshoe right now.
I don’t have any idea why he said that, and neither do you.
We can't read anyone's mind, but we can use logic and what we knew about Case before and after the Vikings to come to the conclusion that Zimmer felt Case was not a very good QB and was only doing well because of luck. Luck that was bound to run out and did.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by psjordan » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:38 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:48 pm
The other thing that stood out to me was how ineffective Cousins was at beating the blitz generally. There were times when he had time, and any time a defense sends extra rushers there has to be some sort of gap left in the defense where that rusher would otherwise have responsibility. And yet, time after time the Vikings just basically chucked and ducked. They seemed completely unable or unwilling to adjust what they were doing, and the Ravens just ate them for lunch in the second half.
I agree 100%, and not only this game but all season (and then some).

So, small picture, you have the above "shortcoming" and we lose in overtime to a very highly regarded team (and QB).

Big picture, we've had the above "shortcoming" pretty much all season - and yet we've lost 5 games by a total of 18 points.

I struggle trying to reconcile those things. We look SO SO horrid at times getting to 3-5, and yet we are 2 TD's and a FG away from 8-0?

:ripple: :ripple: :ripple:
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:51 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:35 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:26 pm



I don’t have any idea why he said that, and neither do you.
We can't read anyone's mind, but we can use logic and what we knew about Case before and after the Vikings to come to the conclusion that Zimmer felt Case was not a very good QB and was only doing well because of luck. Luck that was bound to run out and did.
And my point is this … why can’t Mike Zimmer support any quarterback not named Teddy Bridgewater?

I mean, no good head coach goes into a game thinking, “I don’t trust my quarterback.” A good head coach puts his quarterback, whatever his ability level, in a position to succeed.

That’s why I want an offensive-minded head coach. Mike Zimmer, as has been reported over and over and over, has almost nothing to do with his offense except on a 100,000-foot level. Essentially, his entire contribution to the offense is “don’t turn it over.” He’s a defensive coordinator with a title. I want somebody who can empower his quarterback to be the best version of himself. Zimmer is not that. Never has been, and ain’t about to change at this point.

And by the way, luck had little to do with the way Case played against the Rams in 2017. Zimmer saying it did is a clear indication of either idiocy or bias.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:16 am

VikingLord wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:48 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:47 pm
It sure doesn't seem like he does though and you watch him at the line versus other 10 year vets and the perception is that he just goes with whatever is called. Maybe he is just more subtle with his audibles than a Brady or Rodgers.
There were many times during the Ravens game where the Vikings seemingly made no pre-snap protection adjustments. In fact, I can't recall the last game I watched where a defense managed to have so many free runners at the QB. The Vikings were either unable to recognize these blitzers pre-snap, or, as you are alluding, simply failed to adjust protections or hot routes to counter them.

The other thing that stood out to me was how ineffective Cousins was at beating the blitz generally. There were times when he had time, and any time a defense sends extra rushers there has to be some sort of gap left in the defense where that rusher would otherwise have responsibility. And yet, time after time the Vikings just basically chucked and ducked. They seemed completely unable or unwilling to adjust what they were doing, and the Ravens just ate them for lunch in the second half.

If this is Cousins failing to adjust, why is he still the starting QB? Yeah, he's getting paid boku bucks and sitting his butt would not reflect well on the decision to extend him and pay him that guaranteed salary, but at the same time, he's got to have not just latitude to adjust plays and protections pre-snap, but the willingness to do it. If he's not doing that, shame on him, but more importantly, shame on Zimmer for keeping him out there. I don't think any modern NFL offense can thrive without pre-snap adjustments.

If this is Zimmer or Kubiak failing to adjust, that's a different story. If they've choked the life out of Cousins and are impeding his ability to modify what is called and/or be more aggressive downfield, then they're the ones who need to be on the dock.

But I just don't think Zimmer holds his cards that close to the vest. There are clearly deeper routes being called. The Vikings clearly have the skill position players to succeed in those routes, even if the ball is contested in the air. It seems pretty clear to me that Cousins is not looking deep most of the time, and on the rare times he does, he's letting it fly when the downfield receiver is more or less wide open.
Cousins should be yanked when he can't do anything. It's called trying to win the game. We have 3 other QBs on our roster practice squad. If none are capable of playing why the hell are they on the team? I said this in another post once Cousins sucks which is always after the scripted deal put him on the bench. Maybe we can get lucky and he will quite and cancel his contract. That would be a huge win. With these other 3 do something different. Let them each rotate through a possession. There is nothing to lose by doing this. We can't score anyway. Just keep giving each a possession. Once the 4th quarter hits bring Cousins back in. Or do it like Landry did. Have those three bring in the play and keep rotating them in. Bring play in be the QB. Next guy bring play in replace QB your turn and keep doing that. That should confuse the defense and would be fun as hell to watch.
Last edited by CharVike on Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:24 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:51 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:35 pm


We can't read anyone's mind, but we can use logic and what we knew about Case before and after the Vikings to come to the conclusion that Zimmer felt Case was not a very good QB and was only doing well because of luck. Luck that was bound to run out and did.
And my point is this … why can’t Mike Zimmer support any quarterback not named Teddy Bridgewater?

I mean, no good head coach goes into a game thinking, “I don’t trust my quarterback.” A good head coach puts his quarterback, whatever his ability level, in a position to succeed.

That’s why I want an offensive-minded head coach. Mike Zimmer, as has been reported over and over and over, has almost nothing to do with his offense except on a 100,000-foot level. Essentially, his entire contribution to the offense is “don’t turn it over.” He’s a defensive coordinator with a title. I want somebody who can empower his quarterback to be the best version of himself. Zimmer is not that. Never has been, and ain’t about to change at this point.

And by the way, luck had little to do with the way Case played against the Rams in 2017. Zimmer saying it did is a clear indication of either idiocy or bias.
That;s a great statement you made. no good head coach goes into a game thinking, “I don’t trust my quarterback.” A good head coach puts his quarterback, whatever his ability level, in a position to succeed.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:39 am

psjordan wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:38 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:48 pm
The other thing that stood out to me was how ineffective Cousins was at beating the blitz generally. There were times when he had time, and any time a defense sends extra rushers there has to be some sort of gap left in the defense where that rusher would otherwise have responsibility. And yet, time after time the Vikings just basically chucked and ducked. They seemed completely unable or unwilling to adjust what they were doing, and the Ravens just ate them for lunch in the second half.
I agree 100%, and not only this game but all season (and then some).

So, small picture, you have the above "shortcoming" and we lose in overtime to a very highly regarded team (and QB).

Big picture, we've had the above "shortcoming" pretty much all season - and yet we've lost 5 games by a total of 18 points.

I struggle trying to reconcile those things. We look SO SO horrid at times getting to 3-5, and yet we are 2 TD's and a FG away from 8-0?

:ripple: :ripple: :ripple:
Do you think we are the only team to lose by a few points. There's not many blow outs in the NFl. The Lions have lost close games. We were lucky to beat them and so were the Ravens. I'm sure there are more. We are a 500 club just based on talent IMO. Our D can't stop the run at all. Look at this secondary we have. Our QB is a worthless POS. Our OL sucks. Not much talent really. We were lucky against the Ravens. They should have put up more points.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by IIsweet » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:56 am

Actually I feel that we are in games because we do have a lot of talent on the roster. Many veteran players.
I do not ever get to really see the games, but the ones I have seen, I do not feel like they ever create momentum and sustain it.
I feel that it is their job to play the game, and that is their mentality. It is just a job !!
Players take on the mentality of their HC, and I feel that that is his take also. Give me the Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan that are running down the sidelines. The offensive play caller that sees a weakness, exploits it, the players execute, and hit a big play. That is so much fun.
I do not see these guys as excited to play, I see minimal interest in the outcome.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:16 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:51 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:35 pm


We can't read anyone's mind, but we can use logic and what we knew about Case before and after the Vikings to come to the conclusion that Zimmer felt Case was not a very good QB and was only doing well because of luck. Luck that was bound to run out and did.
And my point is this … why can’t Mike Zimmer support any quarterback not named Teddy Bridgewater?

I mean, no good head coach goes into a game thinking, “I don’t trust my quarterback.” A good head coach puts his quarterback, whatever his ability level, in a position to succeed.

That’s why I want an offensive-minded head coach. Mike Zimmer, as has been reported over and over and over, has almost nothing to do with his offense except on a 100,000-foot level. Essentially, his entire contribution to the offense is “don’t turn it over.” He’s a defensive coordinator with a title. I want somebody who can empower his quarterback to be the best version of himself. Zimmer is not that. Never has been, and ain’t about to change at this point.

And by the way, luck had little to do with the way Case played against the Rams in 2017. Zimmer saying it did is a clear indication of either idiocy or bias.
It is a clear indication that he knew better than most fans what Case was doing wasn't sustainable.

Zimmer has talked up Cousins before and considering Cousins is the highest paid player on the team and consistently does very little to help the team win or worse, there are surprising few quotes of him ripping him. Cousins might be the least ripped player by Zimmer on the team, which is dumb because I think Cousins plays better when he is mad.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:55 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:16 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:51 pm

And my point is this … why can’t Mike Zimmer support any quarterback not named Teddy Bridgewater?

I mean, no good head coach goes into a game thinking, “I don’t trust my quarterback.” A good head coach puts his quarterback, whatever his ability level, in a position to succeed.

That’s why I want an offensive-minded head coach. Mike Zimmer, as has been reported over and over and over, has almost nothing to do with his offense except on a 100,000-foot level. Essentially, his entire contribution to the offense is “don’t turn it over.” He’s a defensive coordinator with a title. I want somebody who can empower his quarterback to be the best version of himself. Zimmer is not that. Never has been, and ain’t about to change at this point.

And by the way, luck had little to do with the way Case played against the Rams in 2017. Zimmer saying it did is a clear indication of either idiocy or bias.
It is a clear indication that he knew better than most fans what Case was doing wasn't sustainable.

Zimmer has talked up Cousins before and considering Cousins is the highest paid player on the team and consistently does very little to help the team win or worse, there are surprising few quotes of him ripping him. Cousins might be the least ripped player by Zimmer on the team, which is dumb because I think Cousins plays better when he is mad.
It doesn’t matter whether a head coach thinks his quarterback’s performance is sustainable. The point isn’t to be right. The point is to win games.

And Zimmer talking up Cousins … just … please. Zimmer never wanted him. His own statements from the time leading up to Cousins signing in 2018 prove that.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:19 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:55 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:16 am

It is a clear indication that he knew better than most fans what Case was doing wasn't sustainable.

Zimmer has talked up Cousins before and considering Cousins is the highest paid player on the team and consistently does very little to help the team win or worse, there are surprising few quotes of him ripping him. Cousins might be the least ripped player by Zimmer on the team, which is dumb because I think Cousins plays better when he is mad.
It doesn’t matter whether a head coach thinks his quarterback’s performance is sustainable. The point isn’t to be right. The point is to win games.

And Zimmer talking up Cousins … just … please. Zimmer never wanted him. His own statements from the time leading up to Cousins signing in 2018 prove that.
I agree, he never wanted him and that is just another feather in his cap and knock on the GM. However, once he was forced to carry that sack of turds to wins he has been supportive of his QB.
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