Vikings @ Ravens post game

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StumpHunter
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:55 am

makila wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:38 am
https://theathletic.com/2941388/2021/11 ... ed-article

A dream situation would’ve been a touchdown while using up the clock, sending the Vikings into halftime up 21-3 on the road against a team that was favored by six. Instead, the Vikings went three quick plays without a first down, using only 19 seconds and settling for a field goal. On second-and-11, Cousins overthrew Adam Thielen even though he was open near the sideline. On third-and-11, Cousins underthrew Jefferson even though he was open near the sideline. The Ravens got the ball back with plenty of time, scored a touchdown on the ensuing possession and trailed only 17-10 at halftime.
Great article. That swing at the end of the half was huge and highlighted that even when the right play is called twice in a row, we still struggle to execute on offense. JJ and Thielen both had first downs if a better throw was made on 2nd and 3rd down. Even if we don't get a TD after that, a first down likely prevents Baltimore from scoring before the half.
makila wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:38 am
https://theathletic.com/2941388/2021/11 ... ed-article
That gives Zimmer plenty to worry about on his preferred side of the ball. But what’s becoming clear eight weeks in is that the Vikings aren’t getting where they want to go with this offense.
Some of us saw what the real issue was 4 weeks in and were called trolls for pointing it out. It isn't going to get better either. The O has had some incredible injury luck at the skill positions the past couple of seasons and that luck is bound to come to an end soon. Even when 100% healthy this O is below average, and if Thielen, Cook or JJ going down for an extended period of time we are probably looking at multiple single digit score offensive performances in our future.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Dmizzle0 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:34 am

I've never been so frustrated to be a Vikings fan. At this point I'm thinking it's not healthy to be so invested in this team.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by TSonn » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:35 am

Dmizzle0 wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:34 am
I've never been so frustrated to be a Vikings fan. At this point I'm thinking it's not healthy to be so invested in this team.
I've been planning home projects/renovations during Vikings games.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Crax » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:43 am

Chad Graff
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One damning note to me: On third down in OT, Kirk Cousins said the Vikings had all longer developing routes and pressure got to him before the routes opened. But against a team famous for blitzing, how do you not give Cousins at least one route that could be open quickly.
If this is true, I just can't fathom how NFL coaches could be this bad. :puke:
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by VikingLord » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:48 am

Painful stats this week:

Vikings - 13 first downs
Ravens - 36 first downs

Vikings - 52 total offensive plays
Ravens - 89 total offensive plays

Vikings - 318 yards of offense (187 passing, 131 rushing, much of which came on a single big run)
Ravens - 500 yards of offense (253 passing, 247 rushing :shock: :shock: :shock: - yes you read that right...)

Vikings - 23:40 Time of possession
Ravens - 46:04 Time of possession :shock: :shock: :shock:

This game should never have gone into overtime, but not because I think the Vikings were that close to winning it. Its the other way around. Take away the kickoff return for a TD, and the Vikings aren't anywhere near sending this into overtime. Take away the sketchy play by Jackson early where he was clearly a bit off, and the Vikings aren't anywhere near winning it, either. The fact it was so close was more a product of those two factors than the Vikings being competitive, because even a blind monkey can look at those stats and see just how uncompetitive they actually were. On BOTH sides of the ball.

There was one true deep passing attempt in the game. One.

The Ravens love to bring extra blitzers, and had several free runners all game. How did the Vikings respond? By sending their WRs into long routes and essentially giving Cousins however long it took for the free runner to reach him to get rid of it.

Defensively, they never took Jackson away. Rush four, try to contain him, but if not, he just took off over and over and over. Well, at least the Vikings didn't give up anything big down the field. Chose to die by a thousand paper cuts I guess.

And Harrison Smith - FU dude. You're emblematic of the crap player leadership on this team. Your decision to put your hair-brained personal choice nonsense above your team cost you and likely cost them too. The non-vaccinated players on the Vikings at least aren't lying about their status, and they get credit for that, but the result of their decisions still affects their teammates and costs them games. This is your job. It's literally all you do. To be so irresponsible about it is unconscionable.

Waiting for the game here where Cousins tests positive and has to sit... Its coming as sure as the sun rises.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by VikingLord » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:56 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:44 pm
40for60 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:25 pm

Doesn’t matter. Cousins is the quarterback. Not that I think Cousins is an elite quarterback, but I think Zimmer is so hell bent on running the ball and a conservative offense that he is holding Cousins and this offense back. The Vikings have two excellent receivers and an emerging third receiver. And what did I read in the paper this morning? Zim said we need to run the ball more. And kid Kubiak of course agreed.
Cook had 10 runs after the first two drives. Tell me again how running the ball too much is the problem?
Where is Cook in the passing game? For that matter, where is any RB other than the fullback?

It's like the Vikings completely forgot they can throw the ball to their running backs.

Worse, the running game was completely shut down in the 2nd half. I'm almost sure that the Vikings offense had negative yards rushing in the 2nd half up until the tying TD drive. If they were positive, it was barely.

How does that happen? Yeah, I know Bradbury was out and I think Udoh went out, but how does a team that is supposed to be a run-first team get completely shut down like that?
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:02 am

TSonn wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:07 am
I gotta say... another week I decided to not watch the Vikings and another Sunday where I didn't care that I didn't watch the Vikings.

Got half of a kitchen install done instead while checking ESPN gamecast every water break. I saw 14-3 and 24-10 and knew we'd lose it anyway because we've got "keep it close" Zimmer as our coach!

Watching the replays this morning - love seeing #26 run free - shades of Robert Smith for me. Why wasn't Ngwangwu playing much before this game?
You made a better choice with the install. 26 will always be Robert Smith. Thanks for the mention. One of my all time favorites. Lightning in a bottle. He was a true home run threat.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by RandyMoss84 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:05 am

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:48 am
Painful stats this week:

Vikings - 13 first downs
Ravens - 36 first downs

Vikings - 52 total offensive plays
Ravens - 89 total offensive plays

Vikings - 318 yards of offense (187 passing, 131 rushing, much of which came on a single big run)
Ravens - 500 yards of offense (253 passing, 247 rushing :shock: :shock: :shock: - yes you read that right...)

Vikings - 23:40 Time of possession
Ravens - 46:04 Time of possession :shock: :shock: :shock:

This game should never have gone into overtime, but not because I think the Vikings were that close to winning it. Its the other way around. Take away the kickoff return for a TD, and the Vikings aren't anywhere near sending this into overtime. Take away the sketchy play by Jackson early where he was clearly a bit off, and the Vikings aren't anywhere near winning it, either. The fact it was so close was more a product of those two factors than the Vikings being competitive, because even a blind monkey can look at those stats and see just how uncompetitive they actually were. On BOTH sides of the ball.

There was one true deep passing attempt in the game. One.

The Ravens love to bring extra blitzers, and had several free runners all game. How did the Vikings respond? By sending their WRs into long routes and essentially giving Cousins however long it took for the free runner to reach him to get rid of it.

Defensively, they never took Jackson away. Rush four, try to contain him, but if not, he just took off over and over and over. Well, at least the Vikings didn't give up anything big down the field. Chose to die by a thousand paper cuts I guess.

And Harrison Smith - FU dude. You're emblematic of the crap player leadership on this team. Your decision to put your hair-brained personal choice nonsense above your team cost you and likely cost them too. The non-vaccinated players on the Vikings at least aren't lying about their status, and they get credit for that, but the result of their decisions still affects their teammates and costs them games. This is your job. It's literally all you do. To be so irresponsible about it is unconscionable.

Waiting for the game here where Cousins tests positive and has to sit... Its coming as sure as the sun rises.
I disagree with that since Harrison has not done much lately
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:13 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:02 am
TSonn wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:07 am
I gotta say... another week I decided to not watch the Vikings and another Sunday where I didn't care that I didn't watch the Vikings.

Got half of a kitchen install done instead while checking ESPN gamecast every water break. I saw 14-3 and 24-10 and knew we'd lose it anyway because we've got "keep it close" Zimmer as our coach!

Watching the replays this morning - love seeing #26 run free - shades of Robert Smith for me. Why wasn't Ngwangwu playing much before this game?
You made a better choice with the install. 26 will always be Robert Smith. Thanks for the mention. One of my all time favorites. Lightning in a bottle. He was a true home run threat.
Ngwangwu wasn't playing because Zim and Kubesteak thought it would be better to go with their home run hitter Ham. You know maybe 1 yard and a buff of dust.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by makila » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:38 am

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:48 am
Painful stats this week:

Vikings - 13 first downs
Ravens - 36 first downs

Vikings - 52 total offensive plays
Ravens - 89 total offensive plays

Vikings - 318 yards of offense (187 passing, 131 rushing, much of which came on a single big run)
Ravens - 500 yards of offense (253 passing, 247 rushing :shock: :shock: :shock: - yes you read that right...)

Vikings - 23:40 Time of possession
Ravens - 46:04 Time of possession :shock: :shock: :shock:

This game should never have gone into overtime, but not because I think the Vikings were that close to winning it. Its the other way around. Take away the kickoff return for a TD, and the Vikings aren't anywhere near sending this into overtime. Take away the sketchy play by Jackson early where he was clearly a bit off, and the Vikings aren't anywhere near winning it, either. The fact it was so close was more a product of those two factors than the Vikings being competitive, because even a blind monkey can look at those stats and see just how uncompetitive they actually were. On BOTH sides of the ball.

There was one true deep passing attempt in the game. One.

The Ravens love to bring extra blitzers, and had several free runners all game. How did the Vikings respond? By sending their WRs into long routes and essentially giving Cousins however long it took for the free runner to reach him to get rid of it.

Defensively, they never took Jackson away. Rush four, try to contain him, but if not, he just took off over and over and over. Well, at least the Vikings didn't give up anything big down the field. Chose to die by a thousand paper cuts I guess.

And Harrison Smith - FU dude. You're emblematic of the crap player leadership on this team. Your decision to put your hair-brained personal choice nonsense above your team cost you and likely cost them too. The non-vaccinated players on the Vikings at least aren't lying about their status, and they get credit for that, but the result of their decisions still affects their teammates and costs them games. This is your job. It's literally all you do. To be so irresponsible about it is unconscionable.

Waiting for the game here where Cousins tests positive and has to sit... Its coming as sure as the sun rises.
Holy cow wow. Thanks for the stats.

Another coach, another team, who again went "hey mike, this is how you do ball control in today's nfl. hold my beer".

How the hell do we never throw to JJ after the beginning? That alone should be getting people fired. Surely he is going to want out of here ASAP since we're ruining his career here. Super dynamic playmaker. Lets never use him.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:48 am

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:56 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:44 pm

Cook had 10 runs after the first two drives. Tell me again how running the ball too much is the problem?
Where is Cook in the passing game? For that matter, where is any RB other than the fullback?

It's like the Vikings completely forgot they can throw the ball to their running backs.

Worse, the running game was completely shut down in the 2nd half. I'm almost sure that the Vikings offense had negative yards rushing in the 2nd half up until the tying TD drive. If they were positive, it was barely.

How does that happen? Yeah, I know Bradbury was out and I think Udoh went out, but how does a team that is supposed to be a run-first team get completely shut down like that?
Conklin and Ham get open short so much because teams scheme to take away Cook in the passing game, and leave those guys open. AP got some of that when he was on the field and if your RB isn't a great pass catcher like a Kamara, it is pretty easy to take them away simply by shadowing them with a linebacker.

I thought Udoh missed significant time too, but it turns out Udoh only missed one snap after he went down unfortunately. Of course I say unfortunately, but who knows if Brandel, who came in for him for that one snap, is any better.

Cole ended up grading about as good as Bradbury in run blocking, and was significantly better pass blocking. I am not sure I agree with that run blocking grade based on the results.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Cliff » Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:06 pm

I think it's fair to say that the Ravens went into the half, studied what their opponent was doing, and made adjustments. The Vikings defense especially wasn't able to counter those adjustments. Nearly every team the Vikings have played have been able to do that.

If the team scored 31 points and still lost (assuming no fumble recoveries for TDs, etc.) that's a defense failure.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by VikingLord » Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:57 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:48 am
Conklin and Ham get open short so much because teams scheme to take away Cook in the passing game, and leave those guys open. AP got some of that when he was on the field and if your RB isn't a great pass catcher like a Kamara, it is pretty easy to take them away simply by shadowing them with a linebacker.

I thought Udoh missed significant time too, but it turns out Udoh only missed one snap after he went down unfortunately. Of course I say unfortunately, but who knows if Brandel, who came in for him for that one snap, is any better.

Cole ended up grading about as good as Bradbury in run blocking, and was significantly better pass blocking. I am not sure I agree with that run blocking grade based on the results.
I guess Ham and Conklin are making the most then of their opportunities. Too bad its not enough for either one.

And too bad Zimmer couldn't figure out a way to erase Jackson's ability to run rampant yesterday.

I figured Cole wouldn't be a step down from Bradbury. Vikings should be looking to ship Bradbury while they might still be able to salvage a pick for him. Maybe they could somehow swing a 6th or a 7th. Complete swing and miss.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by makila » Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:01 pm

Cliff wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:06 pm
I think it's fair to say that the Ravens went into the half, studied what their opponent was doing, and made adjustments. The Vikings defense especially wasn't able to counter those adjustments. Nearly every team the Vikings have played have been able to do that.

If the team scored 31 points and still lost (assuming no fumble recoveries for TDs, etc.) that's a defense failure.
To be fair, the offense scored 7 points in the second half and OT (I am not crediting the offense with the KR TD). There are two halves to the games. The offense, again, disappeared in the 2nd half. Defense got toasted in the second half as well obviously. So no propping them up as a great performance either.

This entire team isn't working. Not just one part. They don't compliment each other.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by VikingLord » Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:40 pm

makila wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:01 pm
Cliff wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:06 pm
I think it's fair to say that the Ravens went into the half, studied what their opponent was doing, and made adjustments. The Vikings defense especially wasn't able to counter those adjustments. Nearly every team the Vikings have played have been able to do that.

If the team scored 31 points and still lost (assuming no fumble recoveries for TDs, etc.) that's a defense failure.
To be fair, the offense scored 7 points in the second half and OT (I am not crediting the offense with the KR TD). There are two halves to the games. The offense, again, disappeared in the 2nd half. Defense got toasted in the second half as well obviously. So no propping them up as a great performance either.

This entire team isn't working. Not just one part. They don't compliment each other.
Not only is it not working, they don't seem to have a plan to change their fortunes and get it working. If you listen to the post-game pressers and answers to questions, everyone seems clueless about what is wrong or what to do about it. Zimmer is saying things like he has to find a way to teach the players how to make that last play to get a win instead of a loss. Thielen is just "tired" of talking about the same things I guess. They're all flat-out clueless despite being badly outplayed on the offensive side of the football the last two weeks.

Zimmer especially is frustrating. He doesn't know how to get them on the winning side? How about maybe changing offensive protections so Cousins has some time to look for deeper receivers? Along those lines, how about take a few deep shots even if they aren't necessarily wide open? For that matter, how about make sure the offense has the play in time to get the snap off before having to call timeout to avoid delay of game penalties?

The list goes on and on. Zimmer's only been the head coach of this team for several years now and a coach at this level for a lot more. And yet, it's really a mystery to him what the difference is between winning and losing in these kinds of games?

I would love to see the Vikings come out and start firing it deep. A game where the deep attempts come fast and furious. And if the opposing defense tries to sit back in cover 2, fine, then run repeatedly.

There just is no excuse for a team this talented offensively to be consistently dictated to by defenses. Maybe a few of the defenses they face will be good enough to objectively dictate to them, but neither Dallas nor Baltimore are one of them. And yet, that's exactly the way the Vikings played on offense against both of those defenses. To the tune of Trevon Diggs not even bothering to run deep with a Vikings WR.
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