Vikings @ Ravens post game

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Foreman44
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Foreman44 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:48 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:33 pm
Typical Vikings, played great then manage to choke the game away! Unfortanely, Zimmer will still be here tomorrow :wallbang:
Agree, unfortunately
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Foreman44 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:51 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:55 pm
Zim will finish the season which I think is fair. Once that last game ends it needs to be over for him. I liked that the rookie S got some playing time. He did ok and has some movement. I would leave him in at this point. We need to get some more young guys in there and see what they have. I don't know why Davis isn't playing. I'm tired of this Udoh stiff.
He should have been gone last year
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Texas Vike » Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:01 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:30 pm
Here's the other thing. Third and long against a Wink Martindale defense. Guess what he's going to do, Klint? He's going to bring the house ... every time. And what do we do? Send everybody out on long-developing routes, so Cousins has no chance. The one time you WANT somebody short, we have nobody short. For God's sake, Kubiak, do you even watch film of your opponent?
...
All in all, a game that has become typical for 2021. Play just well enough to get the lead, then watch the implosion. It's exhausting.
Klint is the worst and this point you raise illustrates his abilities very well. It's obvious to you and me. How can it not be to a guy who does this for a living?

I've gotten to the point that I find myself cheering AGAINST the Vikings once they have let their opponent get close and then take the lead. I feel bad for guys like Kendricks, who deserve a win (or a real team)... so then I feel bad for cheering for a loss, but ultimately, I want them to lose because we absolutely need to shuffle the deck.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by S197 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:44 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:01 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:30 pm
Here's the other thing. Third and long against a Wink Martindale defense. Guess what he's going to do, Klint? He's going to bring the house ... every time. And what do we do? Send everybody out on long-developing routes, so Cousins has no chance. The one time you WANT somebody short, we have nobody short. For God's sake, Kubiak, do you even watch film of your opponent?
...
All in all, a game that has become typical for 2021. Play just well enough to get the lead, then watch the implosion. It's exhausting.
Klint is the worst and this point you raise illustrates his abilities very well. It's obvious to you and me. How can it not be to a guy who does this for a living?

I've gotten to the point that I find myself cheering AGAINST the Vikings once they have let their opponent get close and then take the lead. I feel bad for guys like Kendricks, who deserve a win (or a real team)... so then I feel bad for cheering for a loss, but ultimately, I want them to lose because we absolutely need to shuffle the deck.
I’m more for the long term success of the team than individual years, especially when it’s a year like this one, or the last one, where it’s a sunk cost. We won some pretty meaningless games last year (Jags, Lions, probably even Carolina) that cost us drafting guys like Slater or Parsons. I mean Darrisaw looks good so far so maybe it wasn’t as big a deal but man, I really wanted Parsons.

That’s what worries me most about this year, we’re going to get some wins because there’s enough talent on the roster to pull them out. But really, it’s just going to cost us draft position and maybe save some jobs that shouldn’t be saved. I realize some fans are completely against tanking but at this point, the losses help more than the wins to effect change. I don’t care about going 9-8 or a wildcard shot, I want a championship team and if that means one or two brutal seasons, so be it. I want off the hamster wheel of average teams already.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by 40for60 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:25 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:24 pm
40for60 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:42 pm
Zimmer 19-44 against teams with a winning record.
Still better than Cousins on his career and it was pretty good the 3 years prior to Cousins joining.
Doesn’t matter. Cousins is the quarterback. Not that I think Cousins is an elite quarterback, but I think Zimmer is so hell bent on running the ball and a conservative offense that he is holding Cousins and this offense back. The Vikings have two excellent receivers and an emerging third receiver. And what did I read in the paper this morning? Zim said we need to run the ball more. And kid Kubiak of course agreed.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:44 pm

40for60 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:25 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:24 pm


Still better than Cousins on his career and it was pretty good the 3 years prior to Cousins joining.
Doesn’t matter. Cousins is the quarterback. Not that I think Cousins is an elite quarterback, but I think Zimmer is so hell bent on running the ball and a conservative offense that he is holding Cousins and this offense back. The Vikings have two excellent receivers and an emerging third receiver. And what did I read in the paper this morning? Zim said we need to run the ball more. And kid Kubiak of course agreed.
Cook had 10 runs after the first two drives. Tell me again how running the ball too much is the problem?
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Raz » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:08 pm

Does Klint not talk to his father clearly he should call him to get one clue how to call an nfl game. They only qualification he seems to have for the job is his last name. The guy is clearly in over his head.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by 40for60 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:12 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:44 pm
40for60 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:25 pm

Doesn’t matter. Cousins is the quarterback. Not that I think Cousins is an elite quarterback, but I think Zimmer is so hell bent on running the ball and a conservative offense that he is holding Cousins and this offense back. The Vikings have two excellent receivers and an emerging third receiver. And what did I read in the paper this morning? Zim said we need to run the ball more. And kid Kubiak of course agreed.
Cook had 10 runs after the first two drives. Tell me again how running the ball too much is the problem?
Jefferson had the 50 yard TD. After that two catches for 19 yards. Unacceptable,

Thielen had 2 for 6 yards. Granted one was for a TD but also unacceptable.

17 receptions. 24 rushes.

I will concede that who they target in the passing game is wrong. Conklin shouldn’t have more receptions than Jefferson or Thielen.

Regardless, this offense is stagnant after the first or second series.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Texas Vike » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:26 pm

Anyone else notice how horrendous the referees were in our game today? That horse collar tackle that negated Barr's fumble recovery was a terrible call on a crucial play. We benefited from a few too, so maybe they balanced out, but it really stood out just how poor the officiating can be in the NFL despite all of the technology.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:10 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:26 pm
Anyone else notice how horrendous the referees were in our game today? That horse collar tackle that negated Barr's fumble recovery was a terrible call on a crucial play. We benefited from a few too, so maybe they balanced out, but it really stood out just how poor the officiating can be in the NFL despite all of the technology.
Oh. My. God.

The horse collar was total bullish!t. Same with the unsportsmanlike conduct — he reached out one hand to keep the Ravens guy from bowling over half the team. And the defensive holding on the Wilikes sack, it was all inside 5 yards of the LOS and had nothing to do with the play.

They got so much wrong. Even Dean Blandino disagreed with almost everything.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:26 pm

40for60 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:25 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:24 pm


Still better than Cousins on his career and it was pretty good the 3 years prior to Cousins joining.
Doesn’t matter. Cousins is the quarterback. Not that I think Cousins is an elite quarterback, but I think Zimmer is so hell bent on running the ball and a conservative offense that he is holding Cousins and this offense back. The Vikings have two excellent receivers and an emerging third receiver. And what did I read in the paper this morning? Zim said we need to run the ball more. And kid Kubiak of course agreed.
Zim won't accept any coach that knows more than him. Yes out of friendship Kube SR came here last year but that also included training his son for a season this year. So we have an OC trainee. No wonder this is happening. Plus last year we were more of a play action team which is a Cousins strength. I think Zim is happy Cousins sucks this year and we can't score. Sounds sick but Zim is sick for power.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by CharVike » Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:31 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:26 pm
40for60 wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:25 pm

Doesn’t matter. Cousins is the quarterback. Not that I think Cousins is an elite quarterback, but I think Zimmer is so hell bent on running the ball and a conservative offense that he is holding Cousins and this offense back. The Vikings have two excellent receivers and an emerging third receiver. And what did I read in the paper this morning? Zim said we need to run the ball more. And kid Kubiak of course agreed.
Zim won't accept any coach that knows more than him. Yes out of friendship Kube SR came here last year but that also included training his son for a season this year. So we have an OC trainee. No wonder this is happening. Plus last year we were more of a play action team which is a Cousins strength. I think Zim is happy Cousins sucks this year and we can't score. Sounds sick but Zim is sick for power.
As a side note Stafford is up to his old tricks. Pick 6 which has lead to a beating. Pressure is starting to get under his skin. He better suck it up it will be turned up more as he goes along. Presscott and Allen sucked today also. Not a good QB day.
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by TSonn » Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:07 am

I gotta say... another week I decided to not watch the Vikings and another Sunday where I didn't care that I didn't watch the Vikings.

Got half of a kitchen install done instead while checking ESPN gamecast every water break. I saw 14-3 and 24-10 and knew we'd lose it anyway because we've got "keep it close" Zimmer as our coach!

Watching the replays this morning - love seeing #26 run free - shades of Robert Smith for me. Why wasn't Ngwangwu playing much before this game?
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by Boon » Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:24 am

Florio phrased it perfectly.. he called it "purple purgatory". Not bad enough to load up on high picks, not good enough win a chip. Just a constant flow of mediocrity
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Re: Vikings @ Ravens post game

Post by makila » Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:38 am

The sequence where we turned the int in first half into only a fg, while leaving the Ravens time on the clock to go make it 17-10 before half, instead of what should have been 21-3, said everything.

This highlights the crap staff on offense:

https://theathletic.com/2941388/2021/11 ... ed-article

BALTIMORE — Mike Zimmer watched Justin Tucker’s 36-yard field goal split the uprights and hand the Vikings a fifth loss in eight games. Players from the opposing sideline rushed the field in celebration. Zimmer trudged toward more tough questions about the direction this team is headed.

Even when the Vikings do plenty right, it still finds ways to lose, this one 34-31 in overtime to the Ravens. The Vikings got a 110-yard day on the ground from Dalvin Cook, netted 318 yards of offense, grabbed two interceptions, had a kickoff return for a touchdown, never turned the ball over, had a 14-point lead and still lost. It’s partly unbelievable — yet it also felt partly inevitable.

By now, everyone knows the stakes. Zimmer and general manager Rick Spielman may not be around to make any more big decisions if the Vikings (3-5) fail to reach the playoffs for a second consecutive season, something that gets more and more likely with each loss. But the brutal part for the duo is that the main issue in the team’s season-long struggles comes with no simple answers.

Eight games in, it’s clear the Vikings need a major change on offense. But for a multitude of reasons, there’s no obvious change available. They’ve chosen a coordinator who has demonstrated that he’s not yet ready for all that comes with game planning and play calling in the NFL, but they also have a staff with no clear replacement. And they’ve pledged allegiance to a quarterback who dictates where the ball goes based more on what the defense is doing than the talent flanking him.

So here Zimmer is, needing a major change on offense to keep his job, yet with little ability to make such a modification.

Afterward, he didn’t offer much in the way of an explanation for the offense’s struggles, just acknowledging that, yes, it’s the same issues with the offense that continue to plague this team.

A simple answer amid struggles as deep as these would be to change the play caller, and that should certainly be on the table. But the Vikings don’t have a great alternative to Klint Kubiak, who was chosen nine months ago to succeed his dad as offensive coordinator. Zimmer likes to have a veteran assistant coach on offense who has called plays (like Pat Shurmur, Tony Sparano and Gary Kubiak in years past). That was supposed to be Rick Dennison, a former offensive coordinator for three NFL teams, who was the elder Kubiak’s right-hand man for years and could mentor Klint through the week and replace him as a play caller if things got desperate. But Dennison refused a COVID-19 vaccine before training camp, and NFL rules prevented him from serving as a coach this season.

So now if Zimmer wants to replace Klint Kubiak, his options are Andrew Janocko, Brian Pariani, Kennedy Polamalu, Phil Rauscher and Keenan McCardell, a fine group of position coaches but also one that has called a combined zero NFL plays.


And despite Zimmer’s wishes, there’s no changing quarterback Kirk Cousins’ conservative mentality, which is so deeply rooted that he routinely throws short of the sticks on third down because that’s where his reads take him and that’s what the defense gives him. He talks about Cover 2, with defenses doing their best to take away deep shots, as some impenetrable force that no other offense contends with. Cousins hit Justin Jefferson for a 50-yard touchdown pass on the opening drive, then completed only two other passes to the star playmaker.

“After that,” Cousins said, “they backed up and kept things in front of them for the most part.”

That’s not to say this is entirely on Cousins, of course. He has always been the same quarterback, and he’s still been to the playoffs with the Vikings and won a postseason game. But this marriage between him and Kubiak simply isn’t working.

The play calls don’t seem to fit, either. Take, for example, the Vikings’ final offensive play of the game. They had just taken over the ball in overtime after arguably the best play of Anthony Barr’s career led to an interception. They needed only a field goal to win.

A checkdown throw on first down had gained 2 yards, and a Cook run on second-and-long had lost a yard, so the Vikings faced third-and-9. The whole stadium knew the Ravens were going to send a blitz. They’re famous for their aggressive style and send blitzers the fifth most of any team in the league. But the offensive play call involved only long-developing routes. Perhaps the intention was to keep Cousins from checking down, but against an all-out blitz, it’s irresponsible not to at least give Cousins one route to throw to quickly if pressure arrives early, as it did.

“They brought one more than we could block, and we didn’t have the ability to hang on for the longer-developing routes,” Cousins said. “That led to the incompletion and punt.”

Cousins isn’t without his faults, though. Perhaps the key sequence that flipped what could have turned into a Vikings rout arrived late in the first half. The Vikings were up 14-3, and rookie Camryn Bynum had just intercepted a pass from Lamar Jackson, who had been struggling, giving the Vikings the ball inside the red zone with 1:41 remaining in the half.

A dream situation would’ve been a touchdown while using up the clock, sending the Vikings into halftime up 21-3 on the road against a team that was favored by six. Instead, the Vikings went three quick plays without a first down, using only 19 seconds and settling for a field goal. On second-and-11, Cousins overthrew Adam Thielen even though he was open near the sideline. On third-and-11, Cousins underthrew Jefferson even though he was open near the sideline. The Ravens got the ball back with plenty of time, scored a touchdown on the ensuing possession and trailed only 17-10 at halftime.

“I felt that’s an 11-point swing because we kick a field goal instead of getting a touchdown and we don’t run clock,” Cousins said. “So now, we give them a chance to get seven and we only get three. So, had we gotten seven and not allowed enough time on the clock for them to get points, that’s an 11-point difference there. That was a play or couple plays where I was very disappointed in myself for not making those plays and staying on the field.”

There were points early when it seemed the Vikings’ offensive issues might be over. They’ve scored on their opening drive in seven consecutive games. But something always seems to fall apart after that. Yes, the Vikings finished with 31 points, but 10 of those came directly from special teams or the defense. The Vikings offense manufactured just one score in the final 53 minutes of the game.

All of this, of course, isn’t to let the defense completely off the hook. It did allow 34 points. But it was continually sent back onto the field because of an offense that couldn’t sustain drives. The Ravens held the ball for more than 46 minutes and ran 37 more plays than the Vikings, in part because Minnesota managed just 13 first downs to Baltimore’s 36.

That gives Zimmer plenty to worry about on his preferred side of the ball. But what’s becoming clear eight weeks in is that the Vikings aren’t getting where they want to go with this offense.
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