Cowboys @ Vikings post game

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VikingLord
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by VikingLord » Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:34 pm

soflavike wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:46 pm
The Wilf's will wait until the season is almost over, or over before making a call on Zimmer. I have my doubts whether Spielman would get fired with a losing record, even with his 4th rounder deal for Herndon and all the other dumb decisions he has made.

I would deal Dalvin Cook for some good draft picks, and maybe Thielen, too. Time to look beyond this season and this choking staff... I mean coaching staff.
I wouldn't be too sure about that...

If the Vikings start getting thumped outright in some of these upcoming games because Zimmer is losing the team, I could see a much earlier move.

Or more boneheaded decisions like another multi-timeout call on a single down could do the trick too.

Heck, I could see the Wilfs call the ball on Zimmer even if the Vikings continue to play exactly as they have. At some point it becomes obvious that the ROI on the Spielman-Zimmer-Cousins investment just isn't there. The Wilfs are businessmen and understand the concept of profitable investment - you put in resources and money with the expectation of certain results.

The biggest problem currently, if there is one, isn't whether the offense or defense or special teams or coaching or whatever is "good" or "bad" per se - its the maddening line the entire team walks between being competitive and not competitive. They're close enough in wins and losses where someone could plausibly claim they're actually a good football team. Heck, I've seen that claimed many times here on our very own board. And so you look at them and its possible to believe that they're really not that far away from "turning it around" or "fixing things" and thus you allow yourself to continue in the ultimately vain hope that this week they'll finally come around and put it all together.

But it just ain't going to happen. No matter how "close" they are, they'll never arrive. Those with no investment in the team emotionally or financially or historically as fans can see their flaws are fatal. They have a QB who folds under pressure and consistently loses against winning teams with better defenses. They have a head coach who thinks 1970's-era football can win in the modern NFL and who, once he has a lead, can just play defense the rest of the way on out and protect the lead. They have a defense that is like the track runner who thinks he's comfortably ahead as he nears the finish line, easing up only to watch one or two competitors breeze right by him at the last minute to the finish line. They have special teams that are truly special, to the tune of missing easily makeable field goals and point-after attempts, getting punts blocked and returned for TDs, etc.

Yup, that's the 2021 Minnesota Vikings. Good, but just not good enough often enough.

When will the Wilfs see it? Your guess is as good as mine. It can't be soon enough at this point. I want to see Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins gone.
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by psjordan » Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:43 pm

I re-watched the DAL game since I had time to kill.

At a large percentage of his "decision points" in this game, IMO Cousins made the wrong decision. And at critical times. He dumped down on a screen late in the 3rd (we lost 4 yds) while Theilen was WIDE open JUST BEYOND, directly in Kirk's field of vision. We lost 4 but should have gained about 20+. The play was disgusting to watch several times in a row. Theilen looks dumbfounded he didn't get the ball. All Kirk had to do was wait maybe .1 to .2 seconds more. He really was not even hit on the play.

He was also off on more than a few passes. He did not look good under scrutiny and I bet he shrinks down in his seat at film review.

Assuming Zimmer makes the D calls, he tried to outsmart Rush and Zim got his arse handed to him. The kid made good pre-snap reads and beat Zimmer at his own game. Rush was well-coached and well-prepared to play against 99% of Zimmer's "tricks".

Announcers talked about it all game, but we didn't pressure these DAL receivers one little bit. No clue what our D staff or players were actually thinking, especially after giving up the first 200 yards passing to an unknown QB. We just kept doing the same things until the kid had a career passing night. Oh BTW, DAL showed our "top" receiver corps no such respect.

Again, Zim seemed to be hoping to keep it close until Rush made a fatal mistake. Maybe the strip-sack mid-4th qtr was THAT PLAY. Oh yes, we have the momentum now, yes?

About mid-field. 1st and 10. Kirk immediately intentionally grounds the thing 40 yards downfield WHILE Udoh is flagged for holding. Of course the reason Cousins unloaded it under pressure was the play design called for Ham to block Armstrong the DE 1-on-1, and, predictably, he got toasted. As did Udoh. Loss of down, spot of the foul. Awesome.

Not to be outdone in the ineptitude department, on the NEXT play (now 2nd and 23 mind you), Jefferson drops a pass right in his hands that would have gained 15. Admittedly the pass was a little off target (again), but it was entirely catchable. But hang on to your ticket stubs folks, Udoh is called for holding AGAIN and you get free fries at Wendys. DAL thanks Udoh very much but declines the holding to leave us in 3rd and 23.

I won't keep you in suspense - we then ran for 5 yards and punted. The strip-sack essentially nullified, thank you very little. 9:00 left in the game. Cee Dee Lamb however returns all the favors and drops an easy peezy third down conversion and they punt it back. Let's not give our D credit for that stop.

That's when all the unnecessary roughness against DAL happens and helps our O immensely and eventually gets us first and goal at the 4 (although a few plays later DAL clearly gets away with an uncalled UR).

Run for -4 yards on 1st
Throw for -3 yards on 2nd
Throw stumbling bumbling to Theilen to the five yard line.
AAAAANNNNNDDD we kick another 24 yard FG.

Now THAT is creative red zone 4th quarter offense ladies and gentlemen!

The sequence form the strip-sack to the FG very very likely cost us the game. IMO no question it did. Even with Rush passing us into the ground. Jeez.
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:57 pm

psjordan wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:43 pm
I re-watched the DAL game since I had time to kill.

At a large percentage of his "decision points" in this game, IMO Cousins made the wrong decision. And at critical times. He dumped down on a screen late in the 3rd (we lost 4 yds) while Theilen was WIDE open JUST BEYOND, directly in Kirk's field of vision. We lost 4 but should have gained about 20+. The play was disgusting to watch several times in a row. Theilen looks dumbfounded he didn't get the ball. All Kirk had to do was wait maybe .1 to .2 seconds more. He really was not even hit on the play.

He was also off on more than a few passes. He did not look good under scrutiny and I bet he shrinks down in his seat at film review.

Assuming Zimmer makes the D calls, he tried to outsmart Rush and Zim got his arse handed to him. The kid made good pre-snap reads and beat Zimmer at his own game. Rush was well-coached and well-prepared to play against 99% of Zimmer's "tricks".

Announcers talked about it all game, but we didn't pressure these DAL receivers one little bit. No clue what our D staff or players were actually thinking, especially after giving up the first 200 yards passing to an unknown QB. We just kept doing the same things until the kid had a career passing night. Oh BTW, DAL showed our "top" receiver corps no such respect.

Again, Zim seemed to be hoping to keep it close until Rush made a fatal mistake. Maybe the strip-sack mid-4th qtr was THAT PLAY. Oh yes, we have the momentum now, yes?

About mid-field. 1st and 10. Kirk immediately intentionally grounds the thing 40 yards downfield WHILE Udoh is flagged for holding. Of course the reason Cousins unloaded it under pressure was the play design called for Ham to block Armstrong the DE 1-on-1, and, predictably, he got toasted. As did Udoh. Loss of down, spot of the foul. Awesome.

Not to be outdone in the ineptitude department, on the NEXT play (now 2nd and 23 mind you), Jefferson drops a pass right in his hands that would have gained 15. Admittedly the pass was a little off target (again), but it was entirely catchable. But hang on to your ticket stubs folks, Udoh is called for holding AGAIN and you get free fries at Wendys. DAL thanks Udoh very much but declines the holding to leave us in 3rd and 23.

I won't keep you in suspense - we then ran for 5 yards and punted. The strip-sack essentially nullified, thank you very little. 9:00 left in the game. Cee Dee Lamb however returns all the favors and drops an easy peezy third down conversion and they punt it back. Let's not give our D credit for that stop.

That's when all the unnecessary roughness against DAL happens and helps our O immensely and eventually gets us first and goal at the 4 (although a few plays later DAL clearly gets away with an uncalled UR).

Run for -4 yards on 1st
Throw for -3 yards on 2nd
Throw stumbling bumbling to Theilen to the five yard line.
AAAAANNNNNDDD we kick another 24 yard FG.

Now THAT is creative red zone 4th quarter offense ladies and gentlemen!

The sequence form the strip-sack to the FG very very likely cost us the game. IMO no question it did. Even with Rush passing us into the ground. Jeez.
Dude, you get the Tough Guy of the Year award.

You RE-WATCHED that dumpster fire of a game? You are the MAN. I’m not even kidding. I’m in the process of talking myself into watching next week’s game (and failing thus far). I can’t imagine watching the Dallas mess again.

Respect.
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Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by psjordan » Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:09 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:57 pm
You RE-WATCHED that dumpster fire of a game? You are the MAN. I’m not even kidding. I’m in the process of talking myself into watching next week’s game (and failing thus far). I can’t imagine watching the Dallas mess again.

Respect.
Bwahahaha, not only that, I paused/rewound/replayed about 20 plays while saying "hold it - are you freaking kidding me right now?"

Seriously, I have no clue whatsoever what an NFL film room must be like when the team does the autopsy. In this case it will be just as gross and smelly as the real thing.

This was a catastrophe all around. How could this ENTIRE team and coaching staff not be embarrassed beyond belief?
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by Mothman » Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:06 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:46 pm
I gave you the week-to-week when I wrote the difference between week 3 and week 4 TOP per drive...The D wasn't the problem in a game where they held Cleveland to 14 points and gave their offense plenty of chances to score.
We obviously have different ideas of what constitutes a problem.
I saw a defense lose its best player and still hold a very talented offense, backup QB or no, to 13 points until the 11th drive of the game where they finally lost the lead. Good not great defense.

I saw an offense struggle against a very average defense and only put up 16 despite getting 12 chances to score more. Pathetic offense.

The offense, particularly the QB, were by far the biggest issue in this game.
I never argued otherwise. I've simply been saying the defensive performance was problematic too but I don't care which unit is the most to blame. I'll simply put it this way: this combination of offense and defense isn't working. Distribute the blame however you'd like, the end result is a team still mired in mediocrity.
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by Foreman44 » Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:23 pm

Same ole crap every year unfortunately even before Zimmer.

But it’s time for a change.
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by CharVike » Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:47 am

psjordan wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:43 pm
I re-watched the DAL game since I had time to kill.

At a large percentage of his "decision points" in this game, IMO Cousins made the wrong decision. And at critical times. He dumped down on a screen late in the 3rd (we lost 4 yds) while Theilen was WIDE open JUST BEYOND, directly in Kirk's field of vision. We lost 4 but should have gained about 20+. The play was disgusting to watch several times in a row. Theilen looks dumbfounded he didn't get the ball. All Kirk had to do was wait maybe .1 to .2 seconds more. He really was not even hit on the play.

He was also off on more than a few passes. He did not look good under scrutiny and I bet he shrinks down in his seat at film review.

Assuming Zimmer makes the D calls, he tried to outsmart Rush and Zim got his arse handed to him. The kid made good pre-snap reads and beat Zimmer at his own game. Rush was well-coached and well-prepared to play against 99% of Zimmer's "tricks".

Announcers talked about it all game, but we didn't pressure these DAL receivers one little bit. No clue what our D staff or players were actually thinking, especially after giving up the first 200 yards passing to an unknown QB. We just kept doing the same things until the kid had a career passing night. Oh BTW, DAL showed our "top" receiver corps no such respect.

Again, Zim seemed to be hoping to keep it close until Rush made a fatal mistake. Maybe the strip-sack mid-4th qtr was THAT PLAY. Oh yes, we have the momentum now, yes?

About mid-field. 1st and 10. Kirk immediately intentionally grounds the thing 40 yards downfield WHILE Udoh is flagged for holding. Of course the reason Cousins unloaded it under pressure was the play design called for Ham to block Armstrong the DE 1-on-1, and, predictably, he got toasted. As did Udoh. Loss of down, spot of the foul. Awesome.

Not to be outdone in the ineptitude department, on the NEXT play (now 2nd and 23 mind you), Jefferson drops a pass right in his hands that would have gained 15. Admittedly the pass was a little off target (again), but it was entirely catchable. But hang on to your ticket stubs folks, Udoh is called for holding AGAIN and you get free fries at Wendys. DAL thanks Udoh very much but declines the holding to leave us in 3rd and 23.

I won't keep you in suspense - we then ran for 5 yards and punted. The strip-sack essentially nullified, thank you very little. 9:00 left in the game. Cee Dee Lamb however returns all the favors and drops an easy peezy third down conversion and they punt it back. Let's not give our D credit for that stop.

That's when all the unnecessary roughness against DAL happens and helps our O immensely and eventually gets us first and goal at the 4 (although a few plays later DAL clearly gets away with an uncalled UR).

Run for -4 yards on 1st
Throw for -3 yards on 2nd
Throw stumbling bumbling to Theilen to the five yard line.
AAAAANNNNNDDD we kick another 24 yard FG.

Now THAT is creative red zone 4th quarter offense ladies and gentlemen!

The sequence form the strip-sack to the FG very very likely cost us the game. IMO no question it did. Even with Rush passing us into the ground. Jeez.
Thank you for the overview you did a great job. I was a full supporter of Cousins but after this #### show he needs to go. Same with this D coordinator he makes bum QBs, this guy, Darnold ect..., look like masters of the game. Useless coach. Zim yes man and clone. Send that down the road also. This Udoh guy playing G can't be in the lineup. He's an automatic loss of 40 yards on offense every game. That's hard to make up. Then throw in the fact that he can't block most of the time and he's worthless. How is he in the lineup. I can't believe this Davis kid can't get in there. We have a coach who is a lame duck and the rest of the season will be just play it out and see what happens. The players based on interviews look POd big time. They know it's over. It will be a struggle to hit a 500 record. The Wilf family has the hammer ready for Zim but they will be kind and let him finish the year which I think is the right thing to do at this point. There's nothing behind him anyway. I just hope Zim don't collapse on the sideline. But he's a guy that has reached the end. Doesn't even know what he did seconds earlier. That's a bad sign.
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand » Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:27 am

psjordan wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:43 pm

I re-watched the DAL game since I had time to kill.

.....declines the holding to leave us in 3rd and 23.

I won't keep you in suspense - we then ran for 5 yards and punted.
What kills me about plays like this is that the commentators usually agree with the "Wave the White Flag Run" for five runs because...hey, there is no play call for a 3rd and 23 anyhow. Ok, so that might be the right call for three quarters of the game or when when winning big in the 4th quarter, but late in the game when it's a tight game, how about heaving the ball deep. Either a) incomplete which pretty much gives you the same result or b) interception which is the same as a punt or c) completion which is great news or d) pas interference call which again is good news. At least it gives you a chance.
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand » Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:28 am

psjordan wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:43 pm

I re-watched the DAL game since I had time to kill.

.....declines the holding to leave us in 3rd and 23.

I won't keep you in suspense - we then ran for 5 yards and punted.
What kills me about plays like this is that the commentators usually agree with the "Wave the White Flag Run" for five yards because...hey, there is no play call for a 3rd and 23 anyhow. Ok, so that might be the right call for three quarters of the game or when when winning big in the 4th quarter, but late in the game when it's a tight game, how about heaving the ball deep. Either a) incomplete which pretty much gives you the same result or b) interception which is the same as a punt or c) completion which is great news or d) pas interference call which again is good news. At least it gives you a chance.
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Re: Cowboys @ Vikings post game

Post by 808vikingsfan » Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:30 pm

quotes and tweets that I thought were interesting.

I just let [coach Mike Zimmer] handle the timeouts because I never know quite what the coaches want to do with what they're thinking," Cousins said to reporters after the game. "So, I was just gonna let them handle that and call the next play if we're not getting it
Adam Thielen on all the short throws today: “That’s never part of a game plan.” He added that there are a lot of factors in why a check down happens. “Could be pressure,” he said, “or a guy not getting open.”
@WillRagatz
Thielen: "If you're not frustrated, there's something wrong with you, and you shouldn't be on this team, you shouldn't be a coach."
After the first possession, Kirk Cousins had eight third-down throws. He didn't pass beyond the sticks a single time.
@ChadGraff
The Vikings were 1-for-13 on third downs.


This went for a 1st down


Bashaud Breeland's jersey is made of flubber
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