Vikings @ Panthers post game

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RandyMoss84
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:08 pm

kidfozzy. wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:58 pm
Y’all might be living under a rock on this one, but have y’all seen Sam Darnold this season so far? This was the first game all season that he was stymied all leading to the 4th quarter. Dude is averaging a near-300 passing yards a game with minimal TO ratio. To call him a backup QB is a disservice concerning leaving that garbage dumpster known as the Jets.

Back to this game, great to see Cook healthy again and looking forward to the progression of young Darrisaw.
Darnold has been doing well and that is all due credit to Joe Brady, their offensive coordinator
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by CharVike » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:12 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:25 pm
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:11 pm


It is about time too, Vikings have not had a good 3rd receiver since Jarius left
It seems that Osborn is legit. So nice to have a WR3.
I'm looking for StumpHunters post praising Kirk for his 2 game winning drives today. Those sure were important last year. I don't seem to see that post. Can somebody direct me to where it is?
First he'll praise Zim for winning again when having a halftime lead. This had zero to do with Zim. He tried his best to give it away.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by CharVike » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:52 pm

kidfozzy. wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:58 pm
Y’all might be living under a rock on this one, but have y’all seen Sam Darnold this season so far? This was the first game all season that he was stymied all leading to the 4th quarter. Dude is averaging a near-300 passing yards a game with minimal TO ratio. To call him a backup QB is a disservice concerning leaving that garbage dumpster known as the Jets.

Back to this game, great to see Cook healthy again and looking forward to the progression of young Darrisaw.
I called him a backup. Just look at who he has played against this season then you'll see what I mean. He threw a pick today right off the bat. Yes he had a 90 yard drive but that points to Dantzler more than him. 4th and a mile don't let the guy get behind you wide open. His previous two games he turned it over, 5 ints, and lost both.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by CharVike » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:35 pm

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:53 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:51 pm
The Vikings did their job. It's hard to hit the road and win. I give them credit they played hard. Like every game there were positives and negatives. Hopefully Dantzler keeps his tweets to himself. He's worthless and an embarrassment to his profession and our team. I don't want him active anymore. He needs to watch and learn. Our FG kicker needs to be kicked down the road. Cook is an explosive player. 4.8 a pop is a dam good job. I give Darrisaw a ton of credit. Vets struggle when missing camp. He did a good job last week also in limited time. He'll have some struggles but the arrow is pointing up. It's good to see some OL size for a change. Lynch had a sack and that's always welcomed. Zim won again after leading at half time. But I don't give him any credit for this at all. He allowed that team to drive 90 some yards for the tie. Two 4th down conversions from a QB that 's not NFL starter quality and is a backup at best. I didn't expect a win. On to next week.
Vikings are on a bye next week, Vikings play Cowboys on Halloween night, Vikings better get payback from last year!
Didn't know that. I don't look to far ahead anymore. One week at a time. The Cowboys are playing good ball. They have shown to do whatever they want on offense and Dak is playing out of this world. Had over 400 yards today on the road against Bill B. There D is soft and rookie Jones had over 10 yards an attempt. It will be another nail biter I think. Having a week off can't hurt.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by TSonn » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:45 pm

kidfozzy. wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:58 pm
Y’all might be living under a rock on this one, but have y’all seen Sam Darnold this season so far? This was the first game all season that he was stymied all leading to the 4th quarter. Dude is averaging a near-300 passing yards a game with minimal TO ratio. To call him a backup QB is a disservice concerning leaving that garbage dumpster known as the Jets.

Back to this game, great to see Cook healthy again and looking forward to the progression of young Darrisaw.
Darnold has looked decent when McCaffrey has been healthy. He's looked terrible with McCaffrey out. Similar to how Ponder looked serviceable at times with AD.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:54 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:35 pm
RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:53 pm


Vikings are on a bye next week, Vikings play Cowboys on Halloween night, Vikings better get payback from last year!
Didn't know that. I don't look to far ahead anymore. One week at a time. The Cowboys are playing good ball. They have shown to do whatever they want on offense and Dak is playing out of this world. Had over 400 yards today on the road against Bill B. There D is soft and rookie Jones had over 10 yards an attempt. It will be another nail biter I think. Having a week off can't hurt.
Cowboys is also on a bye week next week so it sucks Cowboys will be well rested too
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by soflavike » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:40 pm

This team is trying to kill me... they are maddening to watch. We should have pulverized Carolina. :ripple:
Now they've crawled back to .500 just to lift our hopes slightly... we're in for a bumpy ride, guys. Cowpukes are next!

I kept thinking that it sure would have been nice to kick those two extra points, but I guess that would have been too boring and effective. The missed FG just added to the pain. There went 5 points.

Cousins, Thielen and KJ Osborne did earn their paychecks today. Dalvin had a decent day, too.

:govikes:
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by Dmizzle0 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:19 am

:steamed: This game shouldn't have went into overtime! We were in position to kick a field goal prior to giving up a TD in a 96 yard but we elected to run for it on 3rd down and still getting knocked out of fg rang. We failed on two 2pt conversations while Panthers score on an easy one. I see what people are talking about when they are saying that we are playing not to lose.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by Foreman44 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:34 am

RandyMoss84 wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:08 pm
kidfozzy. wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:58 pm
Y’all might be living under a rock on this one, but have y’all seen Sam Darnold this season so far? This was the first game all season that he was stymied all leading to the 4th quarter. Dude is averaging a near-300 passing yards a game with minimal TO ratio. To call him a backup QB is a disservice concerning leaving that garbage dumpster known as the Jets.

Back to this game, great to see Cook healthy again and looking forward to the progression of young Darrisaw.
Darnold has been doing well and that is all due credit to Joe Brady, their offensive coordinator
Maybe so.. I bet McCaffrey has a lot to do with it... theyvhavent looked good since he went down with injury...

IMO. We were lucky to catch Carolina without McCaffrey, iMO, with him a different ball game
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by Foreman44 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:40 am

soflavike wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:40 pm
This team is trying to kill me... they are maddening to watch. We should have pulverized Carolina. :ripple:
Now they've crawled back to .500 just to lift our hopes slightly... we're in for a bumpy ride, guys. Cowpukes are next!

I kept thinking that it sure would have been nice to kick those two extra points, but I guess that would have been too boring and effective. The missed FG just added to the pain. There went 5 points.

Cousins, Thielen and KJ Osborne did earn their paychecks today. Dalvin had a decent day, too.

:govikes:
Next four weeks will tell it.

Dallas 5-18
Baltimore, 5-2
Green Bay 5-1
Believe a 4-2 Rams

Going by memory. We could easily lose all four ball will be tough to beat.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:03 am

Positives
1. The offensive line — They allowed just 7 pressures on the day. All graded well in both pass blocking and run blocking. Is it a coincidence that they have their best game in Christian Darrisaw’s first start?

2. The defensive line — Got pressure on 33% of Darnold’s dropbacks and 5 sacks. Armon Watts graded out at 93.0 according to PFF. Dalvin Tomlinson showed up with two sacks.

3. Kirk Cousins — Out of nowhere, this guy is becoming clutch. The drive that should have won the game was all Cousins. He even escaped a sack and ran for a first down. On the game winning drive in PT, his completion to KJ Osborn on 3rd and 3 was as good as the TD throw.

4. KJ Osborn — This guy continues to impress. He’s patient and waits for his opportunities, doing all the dirty work like blocking on running plays and bubble screens. And when he catches the ball, he finishes like a running back.

5. Adam Thielen — Nice to see AT have a big day.

6. Bashaud Breeland — Where has this guy been? Not only did he have the pick, but he also allowed 0 catches on 8 targets. The entire defensive backfield shined in this game (except for Carolina’s game-tying drive).

7. Dalvin Cook — What can you say about this guy. Overcame a slow start to finish with 140 yards. Best back in the NFL … WHEN HE’S HEALTHY (see below).

Negatives
1. Zimmer’s coaching — As others have said, this should’ve been a blowout. We outgained Carolina 571-303, yet needed OT to win. Somebody needs to explain to this guy that trying to sit on a lead in the modern NFL will cost you games. If you’re up one score, make it two. If you’re up two scores, make it three. He’s lucky Cousins has been clutch. The way he’s coached the past three weeks, this team could easily be 1-5.

2. Justin Jefferson — It pains me to write this, but he had the drops on Sunday. I’m confident he’ll bounce back.

3. Dalvin Cook (not him, but the overuse of him) — There are two backs in the NFL with two 150-yard games from scrimmage this season. One of them is Alexander Mattison. So why, Mike Zimmer, did he only get three touches while you overused a still-injured Cook to the tune of 29 carries?

4. Field goal kicking — Greg Joseph had been solid since his miss at Arizona, but yesterday’s two late misses make me worry. That’s three clutch kicks he’s missed, all on the road.

5. Cam Dantzler — OK dude. You got your chance. But the moment you took the field, the Panthers offense came to life. You got burned repeatedly on Carolina’s final drive. I’m just glad they never got the ball in OT.

6. The loss of Patrick Peterson — Sure hope he can get back against Dallas. Those guys are loaded out wide.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:27 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:03 am


Negatives
1. Zimmer’s coaching — As others have said, this should’ve been a blowout. We outgained Carolina 571-303, yet needed OT to win. Somebody needs to explain to this guy that trying to sit on a lead in the modern NFL will cost you games. If you’re up one score, make it two. If you’re up two scores, make it three. He’s lucky Cousins has been clutch. The way he’s coached the past three weeks, this team could easily be 1-5.
How did he sit on the lead?
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by TSonn » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:33 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:03 am
Positives
1. The offensive line — They allowed just 7 pressures on the day. All graded well in both pass blocking and run blocking. Is it a coincidence that they have their best game in Christian Darrisaw’s first start?

2. The defensive line — Got pressure on 33% of Darnold’s dropbacks and 5 sacks. Armon Watts graded out at 93.0 according to PFF. Dalvin Tomlinson showed up with two sacks.

3. Kirk Cousins — Out of nowhere, this guy is becoming clutch. The drive that should have won the game was all Cousins. He even escaped a sack and ran for a first down. On the game winning drive in PT, his completion to KJ Osborn on 3rd and 3 was as good as the TD throw.

4. KJ Osborn — This guy continues to impress. He’s patient and waits for his opportunities, doing all the dirty work like blocking on running plays and bubble screens. And when he catches the ball, he finishes like a running back.

5. Adam Thielen — Nice to see AT have a big day.

6. Bashaud Breeland — Where has this guy been? Not only did he have the pick, but he also allowed 0 catches on 8 targets. The entire defensive backfield shined in this game (except for Carolina’s game-tying drive).

7. Dalvin Cook — What can you say about this guy. Overcame a slow start to finish with 140 yards. Best back in the NFL … WHEN HE’S HEALTHY (see below).

Negatives
1. Zimmer’s coaching — As others have said, this should’ve been a blowout. We outgained Carolina 571-303, yet needed OT to win. Somebody needs to explain to this guy that trying to sit on a lead in the modern NFL will cost you games. If you’re up one score, make it two. If you’re up two scores, make it three. He’s lucky Cousins has been clutch. The way he’s coached the past three weeks, this team could easily be 1-5.

2. Justin Jefferson — It pains me to write this, but he had the drops on Sunday. I’m confident he’ll bounce back.

3. Dalvin Cook (not him, but the overuse of him) — There are two backs in the NFL with two 150-yard games from scrimmage this season. One of them is Alexander Mattison. So why, Mike Zimmer, did he only get three touches while you overused a still-injured Cook to the tune of 29 carries?

4. Field goal kicking — Greg Joseph had been solid since his miss at Arizona, but yesterday’s two late misses make me worry. That’s three clutch kicks he’s missed, all on the road.

5. Cam Dantzler — OK dude. You got your chance. But the moment you took the field, the Panthers offense came to life. You got burned repeatedly on Carolina’s final drive. I’m just glad they never got the ball in OT.

6. The loss of Patrick Peterson — Sure hope he can get back against Dallas. Those guys are loaded out wide.
It's not just sitting on a lead, it's also settling for FGs inside the 10 twice to start the game in an away game.

It seems pretty clear that if we had any sort of aggressive offensive game plan, we'd be one of the best offenses in the league.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by VikingLord » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:07 am

That was a very interesting game. It played out in some ways exactly as I expected, and in others, not close to what I expected.

The first thing I expected was for the Vikings offense to start fast and then bog down. I was surprised that didn't happen, although to be fair to my initial prediction, the offense did bog down a bit at key moments. The two biggest differences on offense against Carolina were Dalvin Cook and the Vikings attempting some deeper passes. Cook's presence caused some problems for Carolina's defense and he racked up the yards on the ground and via the pass to prove it, and while the Vikings weren't wildly successful going deep yesterday, the fact they did made some things like Kirk's late game scramble for a first possible as the defensive backs had to turn and run on those deep routes. Carolina had been a team that got decent pressure on opposing QBs to this point, so I also have to note that the Vikings OL seemed to do a better job yesterday. Still, this OL is like Dr. Jekyll and Mister Hyde. To win consistently they have to show up like this every week, especially over the next several weeks coming out of their bye. Not sure they have that in them, but they seem to be capable of at least playing at that level.

As far as Cousins is concerned, he is playing very consistently this year. He made some nice reads and nice throws, missed on a few others, but generally speaking, is who we think he is. He's like the Leroy Hoard of QBs - if you need 2 yards he'll get you 3, if you need 4 yards, he'll get you 3. If slow and steady wins the race, then if the OL can play more like it did yesterday and less like it did in some of the losses, well, Cousins might just get then all the way. Clutch in OT for sure.

The second thing I expected was for the Panthers to be able to run all game and minimize the impact of Darnold and his penchant for error under pressure. On the run front, I did feel like the Panthers could have run all game had they wanted, while Darnold was largely ineffective passing right up until that last drive. The 2021 Vikings seem pretty good at generating pressure up front against the pass. If by some miracle of all that is holy all those veterans who have been in the league for a while ever figure out that it is better to hold your outside rush and position in a certain down-distance situation instead of spinning inside to try to get a sack, resulting in allowing the QB to escape the pocket for a big scramble for a first down, well, they might even be among the better defenses. Alas, they still struggle a bit with discipline on the pass rush, but there is still time in the season to get that ironed out and still some very good QBs to practice that against coming up here. Overall, the Panthers used Darnold more than they had to early, IMHO, while not attacking a still-soft Vikings run defense, which in turn led them to some key mistakes, which in turn got them behind playing catchup, and eventually, needing to lean on Darnold who then suddenly figured it out and was awesome. There are some mentions in this post-game thread about Zimmer's coaching not being ideal, but from where I sit the Panther's gameplan was a$$-backwards when they were on offense. They should have run, run, and then run some more when on offense because I don't think the Vikings could have stopped it.

This inability to effectively play the run on defense is going to be sorely tested and soon. The Vikings need to get it fixed if it can be fixed because some of the better teams and better coaching staffs coming in the next several games will hammer on that weakness much more effectively.

Special teams, what can I say? Joseph isn't the guy you want to be on the line with the game hanging in the balance. This fact should affect Zimmer's offensive strategy from here on out. He might want to go for it more on 4th downs on the opposing side of the 50, or perhaps tell Kubiak to keep the playcalling more aggressive in an attempt to score more quickly and from greater distances. Whatever he does, hanging the outcome on Joseph is highly risky. Might as well just flip a coin, and I don't think anyone wants the outcome of a given game or the season coming down to a coin flip after all the hard work they've all put in.

One last item of note - anyone else feel like the refs went out of their way to help the Panthers yesterday? Especially on the one defensive series where they invented PI out of whole cloth on like two consecutive plays (was one PI and the other holding?). Yes, the Vikings screwed up on a few plays and deserved the calls, but some of those calls were really questionable. Hard to say if they almost cost the Vikings the game because giving up that 96-ish yard drive at the end was criminal, but all I have to say is call an even game refs. If you're going to call it one way, call it the other, and I sure didn't see the Panther DBs getting called for what I considered to be much more obvious holding and interference on several Vikings pass attempts.

So the win yesterday was great, but I remained concerned about the run defense, and I remain concerned about the overall offensive approach that plays it so close to the vest that these close, win-by-the-seat-of-your-pants, too-reliant-on-the-field-goal-kicker, are going to be the norm the rest of the year. Zimmer needs to trust he has an offensive team that can put the pedal down to the floor and go for outright wins. I know he wants to trust his defense, and while they seem to be improving in some ways, I don't think he can simply sit back and trust them. He's got to let Kubiak and the offense go after it. Take those deep shots and take some chances and try to put it away even if well up. The pass to Osborn in OT was what I'm talking about. Cousins saw it and hit it and just freakin' ended the game then and there. More of that please.

Hope everyone gets healthy coming out of the bye. This next stretch of games is going to determine if the Vikings are going to be in the mix this year or not.
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Re: Vikings @ Panthers post game

Post by psjordan » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:27 am

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:07 am
from where I sit the Panther's gameplan was a$$-backwards when they were on offense. They should have run, run, and then run some more when on offense because I don't think the Vikings could have stopped it.
I think every NFL coach, including ours, is likely capable of stopping a mostly one-dimensional team. While I think it was a gamble having Darnold throw coming off the bus, I did not find their plan all that unusual, considering they were missing their Dalvin Cook and they don't have a Mattison to rely on. Maybe Hubbard was a fumbler in practice, we don't know.
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:07 am
Zimmer needs to trust he has an offensive team that can put the pedal down to the floor and go for outright wins...He's got to let Kubiak and the offense go after it.
I am guilty of this assumption as well, but I would only point out that none of us know if it's Kubiak or Zimmer keeping the reigns in and seemingly only running 8 different plays per game. Maybe Zim did tell Kubiak to be more aggressive, but after seeing Zim can a bunch of OC's Kubiak still kept it tight. We can assume it's Zim of course with some certainty, but we don't know for sure.

So 3-3 still fills the building and certainly keeps this staff in place. Wilfs make money. I still think we're 8-9 at season's end and outside the playoffs, and at that point I'll get my popcorn to see what the Wilfs do.
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