Seahawks@Vikings postgame

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:38 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:46 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:36 pm


You're talking in generalities, which is fine, but as far as the 2021 Vikings are concerned, without a doubt *their* offensive woes started up front more than anywhere else, at least last year and for the 1st half of the game against the Bengals, while the defensive side also struggled all of last year because of a real lack of pressure from the front 4 coupled with poor run defense.

So yes, if you have great line play but nothing else you'll struggle on both sides of the ball regardless, but without great line play your skill position players won't even have a chance to matter.

Not sure what the bone is to pick here. Charvike is just acknowledging the obvious from last year and why I think so many on this board were ready to ship out the baby with the bathwater after the 0-2 start because they saw echoes of last year.

Cousins with protection and an effective running game is a different QB.

The defense with effective pass rush pressure and an ability to limit the run game on early downs is a different overall defense.

Shouldn't be much to argue about there.
The biggest difference between this year and these last couple of games is not better Oline play, it is a completely different style of passing attack.

We have gone from an average time to throw that is 30th in the NFL, to one that is 4th, from an 8.7 average depth of target to 6,
and from averaging a deep throw on 12.6% of throws to just 5 %.

So the "bone I have to pick" with what he said is what has actually changed to make the pass protection look better.
Well, from what I saw yesterday, average time to throw didn’t matter. Cousins had plenty of plays where he held the ball significantly longer than average, and he still had plenty of time and room to throw.

That could have been good O-line play by us, weak pressure by Seattle, or (as I suspect) some combination of both. But I rarely saw Cousins in trouble.

Also, who cares about how often we throw deep passes? I would take yesterday’s offensive performance every single week without complaint. Our scoring drives were as follows:

7 plays, 70 yards
9 plays, 90 yards
12 plays, 66 yards
16 plays, 50 yards
11 plays, 70 yards
12 plays, 88 yards.

Total time possessing the ball on those drives was 33:06.

You can win a lot of football games doing that. Yes, the Kansas City style of 3-play, 80-yard offense is fun to watch, but what does that do to your defense? What happens when you turn it over, like they did yesterday against the Chargers? I’ll take time-consuming drives that wear out the opposing defense. You could see it in Seattle yesterday … their defensive players were gassed. And they were going down like flies with injuries.

Zimmer was right. Yesterday was probably his team’s best offensive performance in his entire tenure. I, for one, have no complaints.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:36 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:38 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:46 pm

The biggest difference between this year and these last couple of games is not better Oline play, it is a completely different style of passing attack.

We have gone from an average time to throw that is 30th in the NFL, to one that is 4th, from an 8.7 average depth of target to 6,
and from averaging a deep throw on 12.6% of throws to just 5 %.

So the "bone I have to pick" with what he said is what has actually changed to make the pass protection look better.
Well, from what I saw yesterday, average time to throw didn’t matter. Cousins had plenty of plays where he held the ball significantly longer than average, and he still had plenty of time and room to throw.

That could have been good O-line play by us, weak pressure by Seattle, or (as I suspect) some combination of both. But I rarely saw Cousins in trouble.

Also, who cares about how often we throw deep passes? I would take yesterday’s offensive performance every single week without complaint. Our scoring drives were as follows:

7 plays, 70 yards
9 plays, 90 yards
12 plays, 66 yards
16 plays, 50 yards
11 plays, 70 yards
12 plays, 88 yards.

Total time possessing the ball on those drives was 33:06.

You can win a lot of football games doing that. Yes, the Kansas City style of 3-play, 80-yard offense is fun to watch, but what does that do to your defense? What happens when you turn it over, like they did yesterday against the Chargers? I’ll take time-consuming drives that wear out the opposing defense. You could see it in Seattle yesterday … their defensive players were gassed. And they were going down like flies with injuries.

Zimmer was right. Yesterday was probably his team’s best offensive performance in his entire tenure. I, for one, have no complaints.
Who is complaining?
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Dmizzle0 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:14 am

can someone do a breakdown on what they saw on the play when Harrison Smith and another defender knocked the ball out the receivers hand in the endzone? That was one if the plays that made me hold my breath. Do you think it was a blown coverage?
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Cliff » Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:31 am

It's almost like they're using their offensive line's weakness to its advantage with the screen game. I guess if the defensive line is getting to the backfield anyway just let them, pull off some offensive linemen and throw the screen.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Maelstrom88 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:40 am

Cliff wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:31 am
It's almost like they're using their offensive line's weakness to its advantage with the screen game. I guess if the defensive line is getting to the backfield anyway just let them, pull off some offensive linemen and throw the screen.
Screens should be utilized more often with athletic small offensive lines. Also outside zone and trap plays. I'm for promoting Kubiak to Head Coach personally.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Dames » Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:17 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:40 am
Cliff wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:31 am
It's almost like they're using their offensive line's weakness to its advantage with the screen game. I guess if the defensive line is getting to the backfield anyway just let them, pull off some offensive linemen and throw the screen.
Screens should be utilized more often with athletic small offensive lines. Also outside zone and trap plays. I'm for promoting Kubiak to Head Coach personally.
A little early to promote him yet, but I do like what I'm seeing so far. The offense gets a little better every week, and overall I'm happy with the play calling. We have been in a position to win all 3, despite a shaky start by our defense. Something feels different this year's offense, and we were very good last year. Cousins looks more decisive and that likely has something to do with Kubiak. If this keeps this up, he will on the radar for head coach openings.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Foreman44 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:28 pm

i
CharVike wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:41 am
Foreman44 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:22 am


The Browns will be a tougher test. Seasqawks defense reaks. At least from what I have heard. :govikes:
I don't know if they are better than the Hawks or not. They beat the Texans and Bears. Texans were down to a 3rd round rookie at QB. Tyrod Taylor carved them alive and then was injured. The Bears also played a rookie QB and they sacked him 9 times. So much for the mobility advantage BS. They were beat by the Chiefs. The bigger dog did them in. The Hawks laid an egg on offense in the 2nd half because we put the heat on Wilson. Didn't look like the same guy as the 1st half version. Pressure makes every QB step back. If our OL tanks again and gets destroyed we won't win. Cook or Matti will be stuffed. Cousins who according to the haters and media has zero mobility or pocket awareness will look bad also. So the Browns will win. If we block people and pressure their QB we can beat them. Especially being at home. We will need to play well across the board or we will get beat. That starts at the point. We need to control the LOS first. After that things could fall into place.



Foreman44

I haven’t paid the Browns much attn this year. Know they are young, talented, and upcoming. Played well last year.

Agree with much of what you said, but I feel, the Browns will be tougher than Seattle

It would not let me reply to quote.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by CharVike » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:41 am

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:36 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:58 pm
Oline and Dline obviously play a big part as well, but without the skill position players making plays on the offense you are going to need 5 HOFers on that Oline to stand a chance.

Sometimes too much pressure on the QB causes offenses to struggle. Most of the time pressure on the QB is actually the result of the offense struggling.
You're talking in generalities, which is fine, but as far as the 2021 Vikings are concerned, without a doubt *their* offensive woes started up front more than anywhere else, at least last year and for the 1st half of the game against the Bengals, while the defensive side also struggled all of last year because of a real lack of pressure from the front 4 coupled with poor run defense.

So yes, if you have great line play but nothing else you'll struggle on both sides of the ball regardless, but without great line play your skill position players won't even have a chance to matter.

Not sure what the bone is to pick here. Charvike is just acknowledging the obvious from last year and why I think so many on this board were ready to ship out the baby with the bathwater after the 0-2 start because they saw echoes of last year.

Cousins with protection and an effective running game is a different QB.

The defense with effective pass rush pressure and an ability to limit the run game on early downs is a different overall defense.

Shouldn't be much to argue about there.
It all starts with the line. Skill players won't be a factor if your team can't block. Most recent example the Bucs against the Rams. The Rams destroyed a good Buc OL and even Brady wasn't up to his usual. There ground game totaled 35 yards and as a laugh Brady was the leading ball carrier with 14 yards gained escaping the pocket because of the heat. The top back for them had a 2.2 YPC which is getting stuffed. They abandoned the ground game and Brady put it up 55 times. But the pressure was coming and Tom went backwards as they all do. He was sacked 3 times, chased out of the pocket and was hit hard several times with Donald knocking the ball out once. It become tough to score. Of course with all those attempts he put up over 400 yards 7.8 per attempt which isn't earth shattering. He filled the garbage can with a late TD pass with a minute left which put them over 20 points. From PFF: Nothing signals a game against Aaron Donald like a guard finishing the game with a PFF pass-blocking grade in the teens, and that may end up being the situation for Ali Marpet pending review. Marpet has a mark of 13.0 on first-run, surrendering five total pressures and exposing Brady to pressure right up the gut, the variety he struggles the most to overcome.
Marpet did the Dru Sumia impersonation and couldn't hold the point. Basically a blocking cone would have played better. That sums it up when you can't block. Nothing happens even from the goat. Blocking and controlling the LOS is always key.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:52 am

CharVike wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:41 am
VikingLord wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:36 pm


You're talking in generalities, which is fine, but as far as the 2021 Vikings are concerned, without a doubt *their* offensive woes started up front more than anywhere else, at least last year and for the 1st half of the game against the Bengals, while the defensive side also struggled all of last year because of a real lack of pressure from the front 4 coupled with poor run defense.

So yes, if you have great line play but nothing else you'll struggle on both sides of the ball regardless, but without great line play your skill position players won't even have a chance to matter.

Not sure what the bone is to pick here. Charvike is just acknowledging the obvious from last year and why I think so many on this board were ready to ship out the baby with the bathwater after the 0-2 start because they saw echoes of last year.

Cousins with protection and an effective running game is a different QB.

The defense with effective pass rush pressure and an ability to limit the run game on early downs is a different overall defense.

Shouldn't be much to argue about there.
It all starts with the line. Skill players won't be a factor if your team can't block. Most recent example the Bucs against the Rams. The Rams destroyed a good Buc OL and even Brady wasn't up to his usual. There ground game totaled 35 yards and as a laugh Brady was the leading ball carrier with 14 yards gained escaping the pocket because of the heat. The top back for them had a 2.2 YPC which is getting stuffed. They abandoned the ground game and Brady put it up 55 times. But the pressure was coming and Tom went backwards as they all do. He was sacked 3 times, chased out of the pocket and was hit hard several times with Donald knocking the ball out once. It become tough to score. Of course with all those attempts he put up over 400 yards 7.8 per attempt which isn't earth shattering. He filled the garbage can with a late TD pass with a minute left which put them over 20 points. From PFF: Nothing signals a game against Aaron Donald like a guard finishing the game with a PFF pass-blocking grade in the teens, and that may end up being the situation for Ali Marpet pending review. Marpet has a mark of 13.0 on first-run, surrendering five total pressures and exposing Brady to pressure right up the gut, the variety he struggles the most to overcome.
Marpet did the Dru Sumia impersonation and couldn't hold the point. Basically a blocking cone would have played better. That sums it up when you can't block. Nothing happens even from the goat. Blocking and controlling the LOS is always key.
Brady was pressured the 18th most of any QB in week 3...
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:33 pm

A little sidebar.

Since I was at the game, I didn’t see the telecast until today.

I thought Mark Sanchez did a really good job as the color commentator. He may not have been a great quarterback, but he seems to be pretty good in the booth. He had nice insight into the nuances of the game.
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