Seahawks@Vikings postgame

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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Rhodes Closed » Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:14 pm

Honestly, it may be Klint Kubiak's play-calling, but this offensive line has been stellar the last few games outside of penalties.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Foreman44 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:22 am

40for60 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:09 pm
Hey Kapp, great review of the game. I bet that was an awesome game to attend. I hope Zim learns from this game and realizes it is a total team game and the offense is allowed to win games. To be fair, the defense pitched a shutout in the second half. Now let’s see if they can follow it up with a win against the Browns.

Go Vikes!
The Browns will be a tougher test. Seasqawks defense reaks. At least from what I have heard. :govikes:
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:22 am

Dmizzle0 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:06 pm
Great game. I didn't have to get a heart transplant. Defense got pounded in the beginning. What adjustments did they make was it the Dline pressure?
They definitely started getting more pressure, but it seems like coverage may have changed too. When Seattle's O was slicing us up I noticed that they kept moving Metcalf away from PP to Breeland's side, where he was feasting. Did that change?
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by CharVike » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:41 am

Foreman44 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:22 am
40for60 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:09 pm
Hey Kapp, great review of the game. I bet that was an awesome game to attend. I hope Zim learns from this game and realizes it is a total team game and the offense is allowed to win games. To be fair, the defense pitched a shutout in the second half. Now let’s see if they can follow it up with a win against the Browns.

Go Vikes!
The Browns will be a tougher test. Seasqawks defense reaks. At least from what I have heard. :govikes:
I don't know if they are better than the Hawks or not. They beat the Texans and Bears. Texans were down to a 3rd round rookie at QB. Tyrod Taylor carved them alive and then was injured. The Bears also played a rookie QB and they sacked him 9 times. So much for the mobility advantage BS. They were beat by the Chiefs. The bigger dog did them in. The Hawks laid an egg on offense in the 2nd half because we put the heat on Wilson. Didn't look like the same guy as the 1st half version. Pressure makes every QB step back. If our OL tanks again and gets destroyed we won't win. Cook or Matti will be stuffed. Cousins who according to the haters and media has zero mobility or pocket awareness will look bad also. So the Browns will win. If we block people and pressure their QB we can beat them. Especially being at home. We will need to play well across the board or we will get beat. That starts at the point. We need to control the LOS first. After that things could fall into place.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:50 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:41 am
Foreman44 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:22 am


The Browns will be a tougher test. Seasqawks defense reaks. At least from what I have heard. :govikes:
I don't know if they are better than the Hawks or not. They beat the Texans and Bears. Texans were down to a 3rd round rookie at QB. Tyrod Taylor carved them alive and then was injured. The Bears also played a rookie QB and they sacked him 9 times. So much for the mobility advantage BS. They were beat by the Chiefs. The bigger dog did them in. The Hawks laid an egg on offense in the 2nd half because we put the heat on Wilson. Didn't look like the same guy as the 1st half version. Pressure makes every QB step back. If our OL tanks again and gets destroyed we won't win. Cook or Matti will be stuffed. Cousins who according to the haters and media has zero mobility or pocket awareness will look bad also. So the Browns will win. If we block people and pressure their QB we can beat them. Especially being at home. We will need to play well across the board or we will get beat. That starts at the point. We need to control the LOS first. After that things could fall into place.
Yep, the QB, WRs, RBs, and TEs are completely irrelevant on offense. LBers and Secondary are irrelevant on D too. All that matters is what goes on in the trenches apparently.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by IIsweet » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:33 am

Holy Smokes !!! This is such a good Monday morning. Slept like a baby last night. Saw some highlights and was very pleased watching the OL open holes for Mattison and protect Cousins.
I think KK is feeling much more confident and seems to be creating some flow in play calling.
I still want to move on from Zim, but yesterday is a positive. Not really sure how good Seattle really is either though?
This board, me definitely included, had Zim backed into a corner and the team came out by giving up 17 in the 1st half. Then, something happened and they made adjustments ???? I do not recall us being very good at making those in game !
Good for the Vikings, fans, and another week of Zim.

On another note...Maybe it is just me, but Mattison seems to always do well. Maybe he has a better sense of timing than Cook. He is always getting positive yards. Timing is in correlation with the offensive line moving and opening of holes.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by CharVike » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:55 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:50 am
CharVike wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:41 am

I don't know if they are better than the Hawks or not. They beat the Texans and Bears. Texans were down to a 3rd round rookie at QB. Tyrod Taylor carved them alive and then was injured. The Bears also played a rookie QB and they sacked him 9 times. So much for the mobility advantage BS. They were beat by the Chiefs. The bigger dog did them in. The Hawks laid an egg on offense in the 2nd half because we put the heat on Wilson. Didn't look like the same guy as the 1st half version. Pressure makes every QB step back. If our OL tanks again and gets destroyed we won't win. Cook or Matti will be stuffed. Cousins who according to the haters and media has zero mobility or pocket awareness will look bad also. So the Browns will win. If we block people and pressure their QB we can beat them. Especially being at home. We will need to play well across the board or we will get beat. That starts at the point. We need to control the LOS first. After that things could fall into place.
Yep, the QB, WRs, RBs, and TEs are completely irrelevant on offense. LBers and Secondary are irrelevant on D too. All that matters is what goes on in the trenches apparently.
I never said any position was irrelevant. You did. But if you can't block you are done. Cook who is great couldn't do a dam thing week 1 because we couldn't block. Avg 3 yards a pop. That came down to an OL that got there #### kicked. Wilson tanked it because we got after him the 2nd half. He couldn't handle the heat. The pressure always helps a secondary. I wanted us to take Jones in the draft because I understand the importance of that position. But a team still needs to block.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:45 am

Conklin and Cousins have really stepped up. The defense still sucks. I think they averaged like 10 yards per carry. They're in a bad division though so if they can clean up the blocking and defense they have a chance to make the playoffs. Detroit got completely robbed yesterday.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:58 pm

CharVike wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:55 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:50 am

Yep, the QB, WRs, RBs, and TEs are completely irrelevant on offense. LBers and Secondary are irrelevant on D too. All that matters is what goes on in the trenches apparently.
I never said any position was irrelevant. You did. But if you can't block you are done. Cook who is great couldn't do a dam thing week 1 because we couldn't block. Avg 3 yards a pop. That came down to an OL that got there #### kicked. Wilson tanked it because we got after him the 2nd half. He couldn't handle the heat. The pressure always helps a secondary. I wanted us to take Jones in the draft because I understand the importance of that position. But a team still needs to block.
You are oversimplifying something that every part of the offense and defense plays a part of.

If your WRs are bad and can't get open, your QB will get pressured more than if they are great and get open quickly.

If your run game is bad, your QB will get pressured more than if the defense had to be honest and play the run as much as the pass.

If your QB is slow to make reads or immobile, your QB will get pressured more as they hold the ball longer and move poorly in the pocket.

If your CBs are great, you will get more pressure as the opposing QB will have to hold the ball longer to find an open receiver.

If your LBers are great against the run and the pass the opposing QB will be forced into more predictable passing situations.

Oline and Dline obviously play a big part as well, but without the skill position players making plays on the offense you are going to need 5 HOFers on that Oline to stand a chance.

Sometimes too much pressure on the QB causes offenses to struggle. Most of the time pressure on the QB is actually the result of the offense struggling.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:58 pm
CharVike wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:55 am

I never said any position was irrelevant. You did. But if you can't block you are done. Cook who is great couldn't do a dam thing week 1 because we couldn't block. Avg 3 yards a pop. That came down to an OL that got there #### kicked. Wilson tanked it because we got after him the 2nd half. He couldn't handle the heat. The pressure always helps a secondary. I wanted us to take Jones in the draft because I understand the importance of that position. But a team still needs to block.
You are oversimplifying something that every part of the offense and defense plays a part of.

If your WRs are bad and can't get open, your QB will get pressured more than if they are great and get open quickly.

If your run game is bad, your QB will get pressured more than if the defense had to be honest and play the run as much as the pass.

If your QB is slow to make reads or immobile, your QB will get pressured more as they hold the ball longer and move poorly in the pocket.

If your CBs are great, you will get more pressure as the opposing QB will have to hold the ball longer to find an open receiver.

If your LBers are great against the run and the pass the opposing QB will be forced into more predictable passing situations.

Oline and Dline obviously play a big part as well, but without the skill position players making plays on the offense you are going to need 5 HOFers on that Oline to stand a chance.

Sometimes too much pressure on the QB causes offenses to struggle. Most of the time pressure on the QB is actually the result of the offense struggling.
:appl:
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by Dmizzle0 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:31 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:22 am
Dmizzle0 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:06 pm
Great game. I didn't have to get a heart transplant. Defense got pounded in the beginning. What adjustments did they make was it the Dline pressure?
They definitely started getting more pressure, but it seems like coverage may have changed too. When Seattle's O was slicing us up I noticed that they kept moving Metcalf away from PP to Breeland's side, where he was feasting. Did that change?
Right?! IDK. It seemed like they were going off on Breeland again on almost every play. Then their running game took off. Then all of that came to a halt. Pressure started raining down on Wilson. Key stops happened. It was great I can't wait to watch the replay.

On the offense side, it was nice to finally nice to see successful screen plays.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by VikingLord » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:36 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:58 pm
Oline and Dline obviously play a big part as well, but without the skill position players making plays on the offense you are going to need 5 HOFers on that Oline to stand a chance.

Sometimes too much pressure on the QB causes offenses to struggle. Most of the time pressure on the QB is actually the result of the offense struggling.
You're talking in generalities, which is fine, but as far as the 2021 Vikings are concerned, without a doubt *their* offensive woes started up front more than anywhere else, at least last year and for the 1st half of the game against the Bengals, while the defensive side also struggled all of last year because of a real lack of pressure from the front 4 coupled with poor run defense.

So yes, if you have great line play but nothing else you'll struggle on both sides of the ball regardless, but without great line play your skill position players won't even have a chance to matter.

Not sure what the bone is to pick here. Charvike is just acknowledging the obvious from last year and why I think so many on this board were ready to ship out the baby with the bathwater after the 0-2 start because they saw echoes of last year.

Cousins with protection and an effective running game is a different QB.

The defense with effective pass rush pressure and an ability to limit the run game on early downs is a different overall defense.

Shouldn't be much to argue about there.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by VikingLord » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:44 pm

Dmizzle0 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:31 pm
Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:22 am


They definitely started getting more pressure, but it seems like coverage may have changed too. When Seattle's O was slicing us up I noticed that they kept moving Metcalf away from PP to Breeland's side, where he was feasting. Did that change?
Right?! IDK. It seemed like they were going off on Breeland again on almost every play. Then their running game took off. Then all of that came to a halt. Pressure started raining down on Wilson. Key stops happened. It was great I can't wait to watch the replay.

On the offense side, it was nice to finally nice to see successful screen plays.
Here's what I saw:

The Vikings did a lot of pre-snap shifts on defense. They showed Wilson a wide variety of possible blitzers and brought multiple players up close to the LOS, then shifted almost in random ways just before the snap. Wilson and the Seattle OL couldn't figure it out and thus struggled to adjust. I think the home crowd and the noise they made also made it far more difficult for Wilson to adjust. That, plus the Vikings front seven started to generate some disruption and pass rush helped, but I felt that Wilson struggled to read the coverage schemes pre-snap and that made him more hesitant.

One other thing I've noticed about the Vikings defensive line so far this season is they seem to get a lot more pressure up the middle. Richardson is generating some as is Pierce and maybe others as well. Taking away a QB's ability to step up in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield is huge. I think one time Wilson was sacked Kendricks noted that his coverage responsibility had gotten past him and was open over the middle, but Wilson couldn't see it because he got pressure up the middle and had to think about scrambling. There were other times as well where Wilson scrambled laterally because he couldn't step up.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:46 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:36 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:58 pm
Oline and Dline obviously play a big part as well, but without the skill position players making plays on the offense you are going to need 5 HOFers on that Oline to stand a chance.

Sometimes too much pressure on the QB causes offenses to struggle. Most of the time pressure on the QB is actually the result of the offense struggling.
You're talking in generalities, which is fine, but as far as the 2021 Vikings are concerned, without a doubt *their* offensive woes started up front more than anywhere else, at least last year and for the 1st half of the game against the Bengals, while the defensive side also struggled all of last year because of a real lack of pressure from the front 4 coupled with poor run defense.

So yes, if you have great line play but nothing else you'll struggle on both sides of the ball regardless, but without great line play your skill position players won't even have a chance to matter.

Not sure what the bone is to pick here. Charvike is just acknowledging the obvious from last year and why I think so many on this board were ready to ship out the baby with the bathwater after the 0-2 start because they saw echoes of last year.

Cousins with protection and an effective running game is a different QB.

The defense with effective pass rush pressure and an ability to limit the run game on early downs is a different overall defense.

Shouldn't be much to argue about there.
The biggest difference between this year and these last couple of games is not better Oline play, it is a completely different style of passing attack.

We have gone from an average time to throw that is 30th in the NFL, to one that is 4th, from an 8.7 average depth of target to 6,
and from averaging a deep throw on 12.6% of throws to just 5 %.

So the "bone I have to pick" with what he said is what has actually changed to make the pass protection look better.
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Re: Seahawks@Vikings postgame

Post by VikingLord » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:29 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:46 pm
The biggest difference between this year and these last couple of games is not better Oline play, it is a completely different style of passing attack.

We have gone from an average time to throw that is 30th in the NFL, to one that is 4th, from an 8.7 average depth of target to 6,
and from averaging a deep throw on 12.6% of throws to just 5 %.

So the "bone I have to pick" with what he said is what has actually changed to make the pass protection look better.
5% of the passing calls have been deep attempts so far this year? It's been that many? I'm still waiting for the classic heave up the sideline to a streaking Jefferson or Thielen for 30+ yards.

:lol:

As far as the playcalling and OL are concerned, the eye test suggests the unit is playing better. Not just the passing has improved, but the running has as well. Playcalling is certainly a part of that, but Cousins has had numerous clean pockets where he's had time to find a deeper target as well. Mattison found running lanes all game against the Seahawks.

I'm not yet ready to say all of the OL issues are resolved, but you have to be pleased with the progress at least.
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