Cardinals-Vikings post game

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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by VikingLord » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:55 pm

This game came down to defense, or more accurately, a lack of it on the part of the Vikings coupled with inconsistent kicking.

The Vikings defense gave up almost 500 yards of total offense to the Cardinals, including an eye-watering 4.9 yards per carry average against the run. Yes, they gave up far more against the pass, but in my opinion it was their inability to contain the Cardinal running game that again led to long drives and a failure to get off the field. I thought overall they mostly did a good job keeping Murray in check as a runner, but could not limit the run overall. It was a poor performance, making it two games in a row where they haven't been able to shut down an opposing running game.

Couple that with consistently leaving wide open deep routes and giving up huge plays, and man, I don't know how this defense is going to be any better than the disaster they trotted out last year. This defense should be bottom 5 in the league on average after this week. Spielman and Zimmer might just have completely blown it this offseason with their moves on the defensive side of the ball.

As for the offense, they got their sh*t together after a disastrous first game and played well for the most part. They largely contained the Cardinal pass rush, consistently created some running lanes for Cook, and mostly avoid the costly penalties that derailed the offense against the Bengals. Cousins did well for the most part. Maybe one or two plays he would like to have back, but overall he made the plays he needed to make.

I won't fault Zimmer for conservative play at the end. For all intents and purposes, that should be almost a give me field goal there at the end. Could he have been more aggressive? Sure. Would that have improved the odds of the Vikings winning? Unlikely. After all, these are the Vikings we're talking about. This team is one of the few, if not the only, in the league that can consistently find ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They seemingly find new and creative ways to lose totally winnable games. I have gotten to the point where I would honestly have been more surprised that the kicker made that last kick than he missed it. The worm seems to have turned for me. Maybe that is a good omen for the future, but as it stands I fully expect that if there is a way to lose a game like this, we can count on the Vikings to find that way.

Next game looks like an opponent that historically has had its way with the Vikings as well. At least the Seahawks have to come to Minnesota, but we can almost bank on a combo of the Vikings offense/defense combining to lose against a team that Zimmer and Cousins have yet to beat IIRC.

The 2021 Vikings look like *that* team that loses the bulk of its games by a late field goal or less but they can say they "played well enough to win" or "are close" or some BS like that. The "moral victory" team. I think that is what this year's Vikings will end up being.

On the bright side, a team like that usually sees a lot of significant offseason changes and can sometimes come out the other side on the right track.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:24 pm

First, let me go on record as saying the Vikings did enough wrong, especially defensively, to lose this game.

But I’ll also add that Arizona got pretty lucky.

The pass to the tight end that was tipped twice and resulted in a big play.

The fumble that Nick Vigil recovered that he couldn’t quite get both feet in bounds (as an aside, what a completely ridiculous and asinine statement by Aqib Talib that Vigil “gotta do a better job of dragging the toe”).

And of course, the missed bunny by Greg Joseph at the end of the game.

This is why it sucks to be a Vikings fan. We get tortured over and over, yet we keep coming back.

Yes, the defense sucked yet again. But we did enough to win this game. Still, I’m here with that old familiar sick-to-my-stomach feeling from yet another loss that should’ve been a win.

I’m on board with those who believe this franchise needs to go in a completely new direction. I appreciate the Wilfs doing what was necessary to keep the Vikings in Minnesota. I love the stadium and the performance center. But this loyalty to the current regime is misguided.

I’ll continue to root for my team. I’ll be in USB next Sunday, yelling my fool head off for the Vikings to beat the Chickens. But in the end, I wish they’d just blow it up and start over. This group isn’t going to get us the Lombardi.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by Boon » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:49 pm

I just got back from the game. I should have recorded myself saying it , the moment I saw the squib I said this might cost us the game and sure as #### it helped.

3rd down defense is atrocious. Cousins did good but missed a bunch of wide open receivers. And right before the final fg I told this vikings fan in front of me " you and I both know he isn't hitting this" as I started walking up the stairs towards the exit. I didn't even need to turn around, the stadium exploding told the whole story, it was my salty mic drop moment.

Our team is cursed folks. Either deal with it or move on

Edit: I would also like to add the long td that Murray scrambled for was 100% on hunter. Another mic drop moment. He got past the tackle and I yelled SPIN and sure enough the dumbass fell for another broken contain spin move when he had help inside and they gave up a td. This team is unreal
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:55 pm

No fumble last week and an easy FG today. 2-0.

Sad.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:58 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:20 pm
2015 the Vikings were in an almost identical situation against this very team.

Down 3, the Vikings marched into FG range with 30 some seconds left and no timeout, and they decided to try and pickup a couple more yards. Kalil fell down, Teddy was strip sacked and the game ended.

More recently, last week, the Vikings were in FG range in OT and the Vikings ran to get closer. Safest play in football and we lose because of poor officiating.

I see a lot of people who blamed that play, along with the poor play of the oline for the loss last week now wishing Zimmer either ran a similar play or put the game in the hands of that same oline.
In all honesty, that’s the best game I’ve seen our OL play in quite a while against a pretty stellar front. All you talk about is the Vikings being mediocre and cousins being mediocre. Maybe it’s the coach that’s mediocre. Maybe it’s the coach that needs to go. Again, if he can’t get this defense back to being close to what it was, WHY is he here? What good is he anymore?

The Arizona defense was on their heels. Period. Our offense walked all over them today. Both running the ball and through the air. If we were out of timeouts, okay. But we had a TO to burn and plenty of time to get up and spike if we needed to.

This is two weeks now where cousins did exactly what he was suppose to do and put his team in position to win. And I’m sure you’ll be the first to blame cousins for not doing this or not doing that. Maybe the problem doesn’t lie in Kirk cousins. Or the OL, or whatever else you want to point the finger at. Maybe, just maybe the problem lies in the coach and how he approaches today’s game.

He is living in the past with his coaching style and overall decision making. This has become more and more apparent the last few years. This roster talent wise is easily in the top half of the league. I mean hell, we won 7 games last year with half our team injured and had no right. They are going to win games on talent alone. This isn’t a NY Jets roster. This teams floor is around .500 becuase they are too talented to do any worse than that. But Mike zimmer isn’t getting the most out of this team right now.

Not only did he make the mistake of being too conservative at the end of the game, he did it before halftime too. We’re marching down the field before half, we run dalvin for a decent gain….okay let’s get back to passing now. Nope, we run again, waste a down and get nowhere. Because he was CONTENT with just going into half with a couple point lead.

You know how I always say, Mike zimmer would be completely content winning a game 3-0?? This is what I’m talking about. He leaves so many points off the board because of his style. This is why we’re constantly in nail biters and can’t blow anyone out. It’s why we can’t finish games. Everything is always “let’s just get a lead (no matter how many points) and play good defense”. Well you can’t do that anymore Zim. You no longer have the best defense in the nfl. You need to adjust and be aggressive and he refuses to. He tries to just play old school football and that’s simply not what the league consists of anymore.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by VikingLord » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:31 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:58 pm
You no longer have the best defense in the nfl. You need to adjust and be aggressive and he refuses to. He tries to just play old school football and that’s simply not what the league consists of anymore.
I'm really puzzled by what I've seen from the defense the last two weeks. The defense was supposed to be a strength of this team with all of the offseason acquisitions. Hunter played better, but still lost contain at times and it cost them dearly. Pierce and Tomlinson in the middle was supposed to provide disruption on the interior, and while Pierce got some pass rush against the Bengals, in general the interior DL has not done well defending against inside runs.

The secondary has been pretty bad. I don't know if it is miscommunication, lack of familiarity playing with each other, lack of preparation, or what it is, but they have to do a better job in coverage and making plays on the ball. They've given up way too many big plays downfield, often in situations where giving up those sorts of plays is a cardinal sin (pun intended).

While the offense got it's act together this week and came ready to play in hostile conditions, this is two weeks in a row the defense has looked off and played inconsistently. Something needs to change with that unit. Maybe try swapping out Breeland to start and see if they can get some improvement.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by 808vikingsfan » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:31 pm

I missed the 2nd half. Only one FG? Even with the 2 INTs by the D? What happened to the offense in the 2nd half?
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by Dmizzle0 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:23 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:31 pm
I missed the 2nd half. Only one FG? Even with the 2 INTs by the D? What happened to the offense in the 2nd half?
Nothing they played efficient, but a little too conservative at the end. So they put the game on the kicker's hands(foot) to win but he missed. It's like he's automatic from deep but flerpderp up close.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by S197 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:54 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:31 pm
I missed the 2nd half. Only one FG? Even with the 2 INTs by the D? What happened to the offense in the 2nd half?
Yeah the TD in the 3rd was scored by the defense on a Vigil pick six so the offense didn’t get back in the end zone in the second half. While it was a relatively penalty free game, the OL did have some in the 2nd half. O’Neill had a false start and Hill had a hold so those hurt drives. Also Dalvin wasn’t 100% but they kept force feeding him up the middle. Once the Cards were able to contain Cook, the offense looked sluggish outside the last drive.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by Foreman44 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:28 am

I was ready to let Zimmer go last year. Now another year,.

Always the kicking problem. If I am not istaken. I think Carlson is doing well. Didn’t Zimmer let
him go
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by Foreman44 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:33 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:58 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:20 pm
2015 the Vikings were in an almost identical situation against this very team.

Down 3, the Vikings marched into FG range with 30 some seconds left and no timeout, and they decided to try and pickup a couple more yards. Kalil fell down, Teddy was strip sacked and the game ended.

More recently, last week, the Vikings were in FG range in OT and the Vikings ran to get closer. Safest play in football and we lose because of poor officiating.

I see a lot of people who blamed that play, along with the poor play of the oline for the loss last week now wishing Zimmer either ran a similar play or put the game in the hands of that same oline.
In all honesty, that’s the best game I’ve seen our OL play in quite a while against a pretty stellar front. All you talk about is the Vikings being mediocre and cousins being mediocre. Maybe it’s the coach that’s mediocre. Maybe it’s the coach that needs to go. Again, if he can’t get this defense back to being close to what it was, WHY is he here? What good is he anymore?

The Arizona defense was on their heels. Period. Our offense walked all over them today. Both running the ball and through the air. If we were out of timeouts, okay. But we had a TO to burn and plenty of time to get up and spike if we needed to.

This is two weeks now where cousins did exactly what he was suppose to do and put his team in position to win. And I’m sure you’ll be the first to blame cousins for not doing this or not doing that. Maybe the problem doesn’t lie in Kirk cousins. Or the OL, or whatever else you want to point the finger at. Maybe, just maybe the problem lies in the coach and how he approaches today’s game.

He is living in the past with his coaching style and overall decision making. This has become more and more apparent the last few years. This roster talent wise is easily in the top half of the league. I mean hell, we won 7 games last year with half our team injured and had no right. They are going to win games on talent alone. This isn’t a NY Jets roster. This teams floor is around .500 becuase they are too talented to do any worse than that. But Mike zimmer isn’t getting the most out of this team right now.

Not only did he make the mistake of being too conservative at the end of the game, he did it before halftime too. We’re marching down the field before half, we run dalvin for a decent gain….okay let’s get back to passing now. Nope, we run again, waste a down and get nowhere. Because he was CONTENT with just going into half with a couple point lead.

You know how I always say, Mike zimmer would be completely content winning a game 3-0?? This is what I’m talking about. He leaves so many points off the board because of his style. This is why we’re constantly in nail biters and can’t blow anyone out. It’s why we can’t finish games. Everything is always “let’s just get a lead (no matter how many points) and play good defense”. Well you can’t do that anymore Zim. You no longer have the best defense in the nfl. You need to adjust and be aggressive and he refuses to. He tries to just play old school football and that’s simply not what the league consists of anymore.
You score 30 or more points, IMO, you should win
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by CharVike » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:19 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:24 pm
First, let me go on record as saying the Vikings did enough wrong, especially defensively, to lose this game.

But I’ll also add that Arizona got pretty lucky.

The pass to the tight end that was tipped twice and resulted in a big play.

The fumble that Nick Vigil recovered that he couldn’t quite get both feet in bounds (as an aside, what a completely ridiculous and asinine statement by Aqib Talib that Vigil “gotta do a better job of dragging the toe”).

And of course, the missed bunny by Greg Joseph at the end of the game.

This is why it sucks to be a Vikings fan. We get tortured over and over, yet we keep coming back.

Yes, the defense sucked yet again. But we did enough to win this game. Still, I’m here with that old familiar sick-to-my-stomach feeling from yet another loss that should’ve been a win.

I’m on board with those who believe this franchise needs to go in a completely new direction. I appreciate the Wilfs doing what was necessary to keep the Vikings in Minnesota. I love the stadium and the performance center. But this loyalty to the current regime is misguided.

I’ll continue to root for my team. I’ll be in USB next Sunday, yelling my fool head off for the Vikings to beat the Chickens. But in the end, I wish they’d just blow it up and start over. This group isn’t going to get us the Lombardi.
It's cool that you will be heading to the stadium next week yelling your head off. Sounds like you enjoy that. They could blow it up and we have 3 players that could get us some picks. Cousins, Jefferson and Hunter. Maybe Cook but RBs are not big items. If they do that I think there will be some fans and corporate buyers that would bail out because that's basically thrown in the towel and providing a product that has no chance. You would see empty seats and corporate luxury boxes. Sure if we had a kid QB that has top level talent it would help some but we don't have that. We didn't do the 49er process. We didn't get pick 1. Obviously the Chickens will beat us so it will be another close but no cigar deal. If I posted that the Cards QB would throw 3 Int and we would get a pick 6 90% at least would have said we would win no problem. Crap happens.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:10 am

S197 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:54 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:31 pm
I missed the 2nd half. Only one FG? Even with the 2 INTs by the D? What happened to the offense in the 2nd half?
Yeah the TD in the 3rd was scored by the defense on a Vigil pick six so the offense didn’t get back in the end zone in the second half. While it was a relatively penalty free game, the OL did have some in the 2nd half. O’Neill had a false start and Hill had a hold so those hurt drives. Also Dalvin wasn’t 100% but they kept force feeding him up the middle. Once the Cards were able to contain Cook, the offense looked sluggish outside the last drive.
This brings up something that caused me to yell at the TV yesterday.

To open the second half, Cook was rolling. Had a couple of nice runs on first down. Great. Now why not use play action? The Cardinals had to load up the box and key on Dalvin. Play action likely would’ve burned them. But did Kubiak do that? No. As you mentioned, he just kept running Cook into the line.

The Vikings always have the philosophy “we’re going to do something until you stop it.” Great play callers use your eagerness to stop what’s working to burn you with something else.

We do not have a great play caller.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:11 am

VikingLord wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:31 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:58 pm
You no longer have the best defense in the nfl. You need to adjust and be aggressive and he refuses to. He tries to just play old school football and that’s simply not what the league consists of anymore.
I'm really puzzled by what I've seen from the defense the last two weeks. The defense was supposed to be a strength of this team with all of the offseason acquisitions. Hunter played better, but still lost contain at times and it cost them dearly. Pierce and Tomlinson in the middle was supposed to provide disruption on the interior, and while Pierce got some pass rush against the Bengals, in general the interior DL has not done well defending against inside runs.

The secondary has been pretty bad. I don't know if it is miscommunication, lack of familiarity playing with each other, lack of preparation, or what it is, but they have to do a better job in coverage and making plays on the ball. They've given up way too many big plays downfield, often in situations where giving up those sorts of plays is a cardinal sin (pun intended).

While the offense got it's act together this week and came ready to play in hostile conditions, this is two weeks in a row the defense has looked off and played inconsistently. Something needs to change with that unit. Maybe try swapping out Breeland to start and see if they can get some improvement.
I think you are seeing why the Vikings have spent so much in the draft trying to find a good CB. Without a competent secondary, Zimmer's defense just isn't very good.

There was also a bit too much hype about this D coming in versus what we actually were going to be putting out on the field. Bargain bin defensive players are generally going to play like you got them from the bargain bin.
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Re: Cardinals-Vikings post game

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:13 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:10 am
S197 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:54 am


Yeah the TD in the 3rd was scored by the defense on a Vigil pick six so the offense didn’t get back in the end zone in the second half. While it was a relatively penalty free game, the OL did have some in the 2nd half. O’Neill had a false start and Hill had a hold so those hurt drives. Also Dalvin wasn’t 100% but they kept force feeding him up the middle. Once the Cards were able to contain Cook, the offense looked sluggish outside the last drive.
This brings up something that caused me to yell at the TV yesterday.

To open the second half, Cook was rolling. Had a couple of nice runs on first down. Great. Now why not use play action? The Cardinals had to load up the box and key on Dalvin. Play action likely would’ve burned them. But did Kubiak do that? No. As you mentioned, he just kept running Cook into the line.

The Vikings always have the philosophy “we’re going to do something until you stop it.” Great play callers use your eagerness to stop what’s working to burn you with something else.

We do not have a great play caller.
Again I will point out our OC appears to be someone who was hired simply because of who his Dad was.
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