Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:26 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:44 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm

86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.
If I was an NFL quality kicker I wouldn't join the Vikings unless I had no other option.
Yeah, I think that’s a great point. One that I echo.

Everybody and their dog knew last year that the Vikings were going to cut Dan Bailey. He was awful. Yet the best they can do is Greg Joseph? It’s just one instance, I know. But I’ve said it before, and I stand by it — kickers don’t seem to be lining up to play in Minnesota. DBs and D-linemen, yes. Kickers, no.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:44 am

That was good for top 10 in 2012 and 19th in 2013. Walsh was a below average kicker in 4 of his 6 seasons, and a bottom 5 one in 3 of his 6 seasons. He had his best season before Zimmer became coach, his second best season after Zimmer gave him a chance to make up for his poor 2014, and was terrible after that.

Zimmer sticking with Walsh in 2015 might be the reason he has so little patience with kickers now. He stuck with him and he ended up losing him a playoff game on a kick that couldn't have been easier to make.
86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.
86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by TheCoolerOne » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm

86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.
86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.
The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:40 am

TheCoolerOne wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am


86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.
The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.
Great points. Walsh missed 9 FGs in 2014 and I don't remember one of them. He missed 1 in the playoffs in 2015 and I will never forget it.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:45 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm

86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.
86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.
Kai Forbath was the exception to the rule of Kickers not doing well under Zimmer. DESPITE that the Vikings wasted a pick on Carlson and let Forbath go. With 20/20 hindsight we should have kept Forbath and he is a top 10 kicker for career FG%.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am

TheCoolerOne wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:14 am


86% is not better than anything we had since. Walsh himself was better than that in 2015, despite his HC being Mike Zimmer. Bailey was much better than that in 2019 with Zimmer as his HC. Kai Forbath made 100% when he replaced Walsh after he was cut.

There is no pattern with kickers and Zimmer. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't.
The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.
You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:51 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am
TheCoolerOne wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am


The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.
You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".
Do you think a kicker who can't handle the pressure of his HC being mad at him if he misses might be more likely to struggle in "certain moments"?
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:11 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:51 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am

You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".
Do you think a kicker who can't handle the pressure of his HC being mad at him if he misses might be more likely to struggle in "certain moments"?
Zimmer messes up Kickers. I think there's a mountain of evidence regarding this. You can choose to ignore the evidence. It's a free country mostly.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:26 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:11 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:51 pm


Do you think a kicker who can't handle the pressure of his HC being mad at him if he misses might be more likely to struggle in "certain moments"?
Zimmer messes up Kickers. I think there's a mountain of evidence regarding this. You can choose to ignore the evidence. It's a free country mostly.
The "mountain of evidence" provided so far is anecdotal at best.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:02 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:26 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:11 pm

Zimmer messes up Kickers. I think there's a mountain of evidence regarding this. You can choose to ignore the evidence. It's a free country mostly.
The "mountain of evidence" provided so far is anecdotal at best.
Still a mountain. Forbath the one he didn't mess up he had to replace.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:12 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am
TheCoolerOne wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:53 am


The percentages aren't really what matter, to me, anyway. It is the how the 24% is missed, citing Walsh's 86%, that sticks in both our minds and Zimmer's.

In Walsh's case, it is how a certain 4% was missed.

Same for Bailey and Carlson (however brief the tenure). It is these unforgettable moments and meltdowns that are just hard to get past, for everyone. The kickers, Zimmer, us.

Bailey in the Tampa game where we were riding a streak that could have planted us firmly in the playoff picture, Carlson flopping in what was otherwise an epic comeback.

I don't think any stigma associated with kicking in Minnesota is tied to Zimmer, it's the kickers that preceded the next one doing something that sticks with the franchise.
You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".
I bet Gary Anderson would give you a Thumbs Up if it still worked.
That's the most devastating kick in my life history... so far.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:55 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:02 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:26 pm


The "mountain of evidence" provided so far is anecdotal at best.
Still a mountain. Forbath the one he didn't mess up he had to replace.
Let's explore the mountain of evidence provided.

Blair Walsh was pretty good in 2012, below average in 2013, really bad in 2014 (first year outdoors in the NFL) when Zimmer took over, above average in 2015 with Zimmer as his HC still, then was so bad he was cut. He had one more season with another team where he was also really bad.

A rookie kicker was really bad in his first two games with Zimmer as his HC and was cut.

What else?
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:25 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:55 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:02 pm

Still a mountain. Forbath the one he didn't mess up he had to replace.
Let's explore the mountain of evidence provided.

Blair Walsh was pretty good in 2012, below average in 2013, really bad in 2014 (first year outdoors in the NFL) when Zimmer took over, above average in 2015 with Zimmer as his HC still, then was so bad he was cut. He had one more season with another team where he was also really bad.

A rookie kicker was really bad in his first two games with Zimmer as his HC and was cut.

What else?
If you can't see it I'm just not up to helping you any more than Kapp and I already have. You can see it in his unprofessional demeanor towards kickers. I say this as a person who mostly likes Zimmer.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:27 pm

Bowhunting Viking wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:12 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:48 am

You can never know how a kicker is going to do in "certain moments".
I bet Gary Anderson would give you a Thumbs Up if it still worked.
That's the most devastating kick in my life history... so far.
Gary Anderson had many/many certain moments in his career where he was successful.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:27 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:27 pm
Bowhunting Viking wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:12 pm


I bet Gary Anderson would give you a Thumbs Up if it still worked.
That's the most devastating kick in my life history... so far.
Gary Anderson had many/many certain moments in his career where he was successful.
Oh no doubt about that. The guy was money!!! I remember when he lined up I was already looking ahead to the SB!!! He and Fuad were the best 2 we ever had IMO.

I honestly really always feel bad for Anderson every time that comes up. The guy had a stellar career and was amazing for us, and that is just an unfortunate thing for him to be remembered by.

I only dream that we could sign a kicker as great as him again. Plus the guy is an avid angler so that is even more special in my book
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