Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:09 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:29 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:29 am
The Vikings have made 81% of their kicks since Zimmer became HC. That is the same as Detroit who had Matt Prater during that entire time, and kicked all of their home games indoors (something the Vikings did not do in 2014 and 2015). It is also the same as the Bears and the 3% points less than the Packers who were 12th in FGs % during that time.

In fact the Vikings were just 5 made FGs away from being average in that statistic, less than one a year. This, despite trotting out a bunch of has-been's and never weres' kickers.

And before someone brings up the Carlson stuff. The Raiders have made 81% of their kicks since 2018 when we gifted them their great kicker. The Viking's 89% of their kicks. That 89% includes the misses Carlson had for us in 2018, btw.
Interesting stats. Thanks for researching.

It actually serves to frustrate me further. If our kicking game is basically on par with all the teams in our division, then why does Mike Zimmer keep changing specialists? Maybe HE is the one who needs to learn that perfection is impossible.
I don't think you settle for mediocrity. Well it isn't easy to find a consistent kicker, you shouldn't settle for below average just because it is hard to do better. While the Vikings weren't as horrible at kicking as you would think we were based on most fans opinions of STs, they were significantly behind the Baltimore's, Atlanta's and NE's of the NFL. There is room for improvement, and the only way to achieve that improvement is through finding a better kicker.

Championships aren't won with sticking with mediocrity, they are won by trying to achieve greatness everywhere on the team, including kicker.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:37 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:09 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:29 am

Interesting stats. Thanks for researching.

It actually serves to frustrate me further. If our kicking game is basically on par with all the teams in our division, then why does Mike Zimmer keep changing specialists? Maybe HE is the one who needs to learn that perfection is impossible.
I don't think you settle for mediocrity. Well it isn't easy to find a consistent kicker, you shouldn't settle for below average just because it is hard to do better. While the Vikings weren't as horrible at kicking as you would think we were based on most fans opinions of STs, they were significantly behind the Baltimore's, Atlanta's and NE's of the NFL. There is room for improvement, and the only way to achieve that improvement is through finding a better kicker.

Championships aren't won with sticking with mediocrity, they are won by trying to achieve greatness everywhere on the team, including kicker.
I won’t dispute that.

However, every time the Vikings line up for a field goal or extra point, the entire stadium holds its collective breath, waiting for Zimmer to pop an aneurysm. The networks put a camera on Zimmer because, well, it’s great entertainment when the head coach loses his mind over a missed kick. You and I may be from different schools of thought on this, but from where I sit, that’s no way to manage the often fragile psyche of a kicker. A linebacker, maybe. But a kicker? I think not. I mean, maybe part of the reason Justin Tucker is so good is because John Harbaugh has a modicum of professionalism and something longer than a microscopically short fuse.

Zimmer chews up and spits out kickers, which is probably why kickers aren’t exactly lining up to play for him.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:54 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:37 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:09 pm


I don't think you settle for mediocrity. Well it isn't easy to find a consistent kicker, you shouldn't settle for below average just because it is hard to do better. While the Vikings weren't as horrible at kicking as you would think we were based on most fans opinions of STs, they were significantly behind the Baltimore's, Atlanta's and NE's of the NFL. There is room for improvement, and the only way to achieve that improvement is through finding a better kicker.

Championships aren't won with sticking with mediocrity, they are won by trying to achieve greatness everywhere on the team, including kicker.
I won’t dispute that.

However, every time the Vikings line up for a field goal or extra point, the entire stadium holds its collective breath, waiting for Zimmer to pop an aneurysm. The networks put a camera on Zimmer because, well, it’s great entertainment when the head coach loses his mind over a missed kick. You and I may be from different schools of thought on this, but from where I sit, that’s no way to manage the often fragile psyche of a kicker. A linebacker, maybe. But a kicker? I think not. I mean, maybe part of the reason Justin Tucker is so good is because John Harbaugh has a modicum of professionalism and something longer than a microscopically short fuse.

Zimmer chews up and spits out kickers, which is probably why kickers aren’t exactly lining up to play for him.
Eggzactly. :govikes:
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:57 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:37 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:09 pm


I don't think you settle for mediocrity. Well it isn't easy to find a consistent kicker, you shouldn't settle for below average just because it is hard to do better. While the Vikings weren't as horrible at kicking as you would think we were based on most fans opinions of STs, they were significantly behind the Baltimore's, Atlanta's and NE's of the NFL. There is room for improvement, and the only way to achieve that improvement is through finding a better kicker.

Championships aren't won with sticking with mediocrity, they are won by trying to achieve greatness everywhere on the team, including kicker.
I won’t dispute that.

However, every time the Vikings line up for a field goal or extra point, the entire stadium holds its collective breath, waiting for Zimmer to pop an aneurysm. The networks put a camera on Zimmer because, well, it’s great entertainment when the head coach loses his mind over a missed kick. You and I may be from different schools of thought on this, but from where I sit, that’s no way to manage the often fragile psyche of a kicker. A linebacker, maybe. But a kicker? I think not. I mean, maybe part of the reason Justin Tucker is so good is because John Harbaugh has a modicum of professionalism and something longer than a microscopically short fuse.

Zimmer chews up and spits out kickers, which is probably why kickers aren’t exactly lining up to play for him.
Or Zimmer has never had a good kicker as reliable as Tucker and goes through a lot of bad kickers because that is who the team signs.

People aren't holding their breath to see what Zimmer's reaction is going to be, they are holding their breath because they don't trust their kickers to make routine kicks. The closest thing to a reliable kicker he has had was Dan Bailey, and funny enough, the best years of kicking Zimmer has had was with Dan Bailey.

Seems like good kickers make FGs and bad ones miss them regardless of who the coach is.

Fans upset about a HC being angry at a millionaire failing at the one thing he is supposed to do is weird. If Zimmer fumed whenever Dozier missed a block and allowed a sack, no one would care, but a guy who kicks balls for a living missing FGs kids in HS can make and that is unprofessional? Give me a break.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:37 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:57 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:37 pm

I won’t dispute that.

However, every time the Vikings line up for a field goal or extra point, the entire stadium holds its collective breath, waiting for Zimmer to pop an aneurysm. The networks put a camera on Zimmer because, well, it’s great entertainment when the head coach loses his mind over a missed kick. You and I may be from different schools of thought on this, but from where I sit, that’s no way to manage the often fragile psyche of a kicker. A linebacker, maybe. But a kicker? I think not. I mean, maybe part of the reason Justin Tucker is so good is because John Harbaugh has a modicum of professionalism and something longer than a microscopically short fuse.

Zimmer chews up and spits out kickers, which is probably why kickers aren’t exactly lining up to play for him.
Or Zimmer has never had a good kicker as reliable as Tucker and goes through a lot of bad kickers because that is who the team signs.

People aren't holding their breath to see what Zimmer's reaction is going to be, they are holding their breath because they don't trust their kickers to make routine kicks. The closest thing to a reliable kicker he has had was Dan Bailey, and funny enough, the best years of kicking Zimmer has had was with Dan Bailey.

Seems like good kickers make FGs and bad ones miss them regardless of who the coach is.

Fans upset about a HC being angry at a millionaire failing at the one thing he is supposed to do is weird. If Zimmer fumed whenever Dozier missed a block and allowed a sack, no one would care, but a guy who kicks balls for a living missing FGs kids in HS can make and that is unprofessional? Give me a break.
Really?

In the two years prior to Mike Zimmer arriving, Blair Walsh was one of the best kickers in the league. He hit 61 of 68 field goals in 2012 and 2013, and was statistically the best in the NFL at kicks of 50+ yards. Over the same time, Justin Tucker made 68 of 74. They had almost identical stats.

Two years of Zimmer, and Walsh was all but out of the league. Seven years of Zimmer, and we still don’t have a reliable kicking game.

There’s no way you can convince me that’s just a coincidence or bad luck, especially since we’ve also had three special teams coordinators. One of those, Mike Priefer, put together one of the top special teams units in the league in Cleveland — after being fired by Zimmer in favor of Marwaan Malouf, one of the worst in team history.

Mike Zimmer has his strengths. Special teams isn’t one of them.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:51 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:37 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:57 am

Or Zimmer has never had a good kicker as reliable as Tucker and goes through a lot of bad kickers because that is who the team signs.

People aren't holding their breath to see what Zimmer's reaction is going to be, they are holding their breath because they don't trust their kickers to make routine kicks. The closest thing to a reliable kicker he has had was Dan Bailey, and funny enough, the best years of kicking Zimmer has had was with Dan Bailey.

Seems like good kickers make FGs and bad ones miss them regardless of who the coach is.

Fans upset about a HC being angry at a millionaire failing at the one thing he is supposed to do is weird. If Zimmer fumed whenever Dozier missed a block and allowed a sack, no one would care, but a guy who kicks balls for a living missing FGs kids in HS can make and that is unprofessional? Give me a break.
Really?

In the two years prior to Mike Zimmer arriving, Blair Walsh was one of the best kickers in the league. He hit 61 of 68 field goals in 2012 and 2013, and was statistically the best in the NFL at kicks of 50+ yards. Over the same time, Justin Tucker made 68 of 74. They had almost identical stats.

Two years of Zimmer, and Walsh was all but out of the league. Seven years of Zimmer, and we still don’t have a reliable kicking game.

There’s no way you can convince me that’s just a coincidence or bad luck, especially since we’ve also had three special teams coordinators. One of those, Mike Priefer, put together one of the top special teams units in the league in Cleveland — after being fired by Zimmer in favor of Marwaan Malouf, one of the worst in team history.

Mike Zimmer has his strengths. Special teams isn’t one of them.
Zimmer has obvious disdain for all kickers. It's the chicken or the egg. Which comes first bad kicking or Zimmer's UNPROFESSIONAL disdain for kickers leading to bad kicking. Kapp makes a good argument that the problem is Zimmer.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by CharVike » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:22 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:51 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:37 pm

Really?

In the two years prior to Mike Zimmer arriving, Blair Walsh was one of the best kickers in the league. He hit 61 of 68 field goals in 2012 and 2013, and was statistically the best in the NFL at kicks of 50+ yards. Over the same time, Justin Tucker made 68 of 74. They had almost identical stats.

Two years of Zimmer, and Walsh was all but out of the league. Seven years of Zimmer, and we still don’t have a reliable kicking game.

There’s no way you can convince me that’s just a coincidence or bad luck, especially since we’ve also had three special teams coordinators. One of those, Mike Priefer, put together one of the top special teams units in the league in Cleveland — after being fired by Zimmer in favor of Marwaan Malouf, one of the worst in team history.

Mike Zimmer has his strengths. Special teams isn’t one of them.
Zimmer has obvious disdain for all kickers. It's the chicken or the egg. Which comes first bad kicking or Zimmer's UNPROFESSIONAL disdain for kickers leading to bad kicking. Kapp makes a good argument that the problem is Zimmer.
He does make some good points and did the research. Mike Priefer is a great point. There are areas of the team that Zim should stay out of. Special teams and offense would be a great start. He needs to fix his D which basically will take up all his time. He gave his son a title but that's all it was.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:32 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:37 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:57 am

Or Zimmer has never had a good kicker as reliable as Tucker and goes through a lot of bad kickers because that is who the team signs.

People aren't holding their breath to see what Zimmer's reaction is going to be, they are holding their breath because they don't trust their kickers to make routine kicks. The closest thing to a reliable kicker he has had was Dan Bailey, and funny enough, the best years of kicking Zimmer has had was with Dan Bailey.

Seems like good kickers make FGs and bad ones miss them regardless of who the coach is.

Fans upset about a HC being angry at a millionaire failing at the one thing he is supposed to do is weird. If Zimmer fumed whenever Dozier missed a block and allowed a sack, no one would care, but a guy who kicks balls for a living missing FGs kids in HS can make and that is unprofessional? Give me a break.
Really?

In the two years prior to Mike Zimmer arriving, Blair Walsh was one of the best kickers in the league. He hit 61 of 68 field goals in 2012 and 2013, and was statistically the best in the NFL at kicks of 50+ yards. Over the same time, Justin Tucker made 68 of 74. They had almost identical stats.

Two years of Zimmer, and Walsh was all but out of the league. Seven years of Zimmer, and we still don’t have a reliable kicking game.

There’s no way you can convince me that’s just a coincidence or bad luck, especially since we’ve also had three special teams coordinators. One of those, Mike Priefer, put together one of the top special teams units in the league in Cleveland — after being fired by Zimmer in favor of Marwaan Malouf, one of the worst in team history.

Mike Zimmer has his strengths. Special teams isn’t one of them.
I don't think it is as clear a pattern as you believe.

Sure in 2012 Walsh was very good, but by 2013 he had already regressed to 19th in FG %. 2014 he got even worse in Zimmer's first season and in 2015 was Walsh had his second best FG% season that ended in disaster. He then went on to lose us a playoff game, and never seem to recover from it. He was rightfully cut after a terrible start to the 2016 seasons, Seattle picked him up and he sucked there too.

2016-2017 Kai Forbath made 100% of his FGs in 2016 and had his second best season as a kicker in 2017. It was by far his best stint as a kicker in the NFL

2018 Daniel Carlson made 1 of 4 FGs, all under 50 yards. He was cut, did some work with a kicking coach he has been quoted as saying he couldn't do while actively on a roster, and came back to be an up and down kicker for the Raiders.

2018-2020 Dan Bailey started out kicking very poorly for the Vikings, making just 75% of his FGs, the exact same percentage that got him released by the Cowboys the previous year, and the reason he was available in the middle of the season. He then had a fantastic season for the Vikings, and was 4th in FG% on the year, followed by a really bad year again in 2020.

Two kickers who improved dramatically in their second seasons under Zimmer and fell off in their third, one who had the best years of their career under him and one rookie kicker who didn't belong on a roster that the Vikings felt was going to compete for a SB.

Preifer wasn't fired btw. I can't say for certain the Viking would have extended him if he hadn't taken the job in his hometown of Cleveland, but Preifer decided to go there on his own.
Last edited by StumpHunter on Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:35 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:32 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:37 pm

Really?

In the two years prior to Mike Zimmer arriving, Blair Walsh was one of the best kickers in the league. He hit 61 of 68 field goals in 2012 and 2013, and was statistically the best in the NFL at kicks of 50+ yards. Over the same time, Justin Tucker made 68 of 74. They had almost identical stats.

Two years of Zimmer, and Walsh was all but out of the league. Seven years of Zimmer, and we still don’t have a reliable kicking game.

There’s no way you can convince me that’s just a coincidence or bad luck, especially since we’ve also had three special teams coordinators. One of those, Mike Priefer, put together one of the top special teams units in the league in Cleveland — after being fired by Zimmer in favor of Marwaan Malouf, one of the worst in team history.

Mike Zimmer has his strengths. Special teams isn’t one of them.
I don't think it is as clear a pattern as you believe.

Sure in 2012 Walsh was very good, but by 2013 he had already regressed to 19th in FG %. 2014 he got even worse in Zimmer's first season and in 2015 was Walsh had his second best FG% season that ended in disaster. He then went on to lose us a playoff game, and never seem to recover from it. He was rightfully cut after a terrible start to the 2016 seasons, Seattle picked him up and he sucked there too.

2016-2017 Kai Forbath made 100% of his FGs in 2016 and had his second best season as a kicker in 2017. It was by far his best stint as a kicker in the NFL

2018 Daniel Carlson made 1 of 4 FGs, all under 50 yards. He was cut, did some work with a kicking coach he has been quoted as saying he couldn't do while actively on a roster, and came back to be an up and down kicker for the Raiders.

2018-2020 Dan Bailey started out kicking very poorly for the Vikings, making just 75% of his FGs, the exact same percentage that got him released by the Cowboys the previous year, and the reason he was available in the middle of the season. He then had a fantastic season for the Vikings, and was 4th in FG% on the year, followed by a really bad year again in 2020.

Two kickers who improved dramatically in their second seasons under Zimmer and fell off in their third, one who had the best years of their career under him and one rookie kicker who didn't belong on a roster that the Vikings felt was going to compete for a SB.

Preifer wasn't fired btw. I can't say for certain the Viking would have extended him if he hadn't taken the job in his hometown of Cleveland, but Preifer decided to go their on his own.
Walsh hit 86% in 2013, and 92% in 2012.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:26 pm

Ram fans I spoke to are very sad to see Jackson go. Guy apparently has a lot of potential.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:44 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:35 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:32 am

I don't think it is as clear a pattern as you believe.

Sure in 2012 Walsh was very good, but by 2013 he had already regressed to 19th in FG %. 2014 he got even worse in Zimmer's first season and in 2015 was Walsh had his second best FG% season that ended in disaster. He then went on to lose us a playoff game, and never seem to recover from it. He was rightfully cut after a terrible start to the 2016 seasons, Seattle picked him up and he sucked there too.

2016-2017 Kai Forbath made 100% of his FGs in 2016 and had his second best season as a kicker in 2017. It was by far his best stint as a kicker in the NFL

2018 Daniel Carlson made 1 of 4 FGs, all under 50 yards. He was cut, did some work with a kicking coach he has been quoted as saying he couldn't do while actively on a roster, and came back to be an up and down kicker for the Raiders.

2018-2020 Dan Bailey started out kicking very poorly for the Vikings, making just 75% of his FGs, the exact same percentage that got him released by the Cowboys the previous year, and the reason he was available in the middle of the season. He then had a fantastic season for the Vikings, and was 4th in FG% on the year, followed by a really bad year again in 2020.

Two kickers who improved dramatically in their second seasons under Zimmer and fell off in their third, one who had the best years of their career under him and one rookie kicker who didn't belong on a roster that the Vikings felt was going to compete for a SB.

Preifer wasn't fired btw. I can't say for certain the Viking would have extended him if he hadn't taken the job in his hometown of Cleveland, but Preifer decided to go their on his own.
Walsh hit 86% in 2013, and 92% in 2012.
That was good for top 10 in 2012 and 19th in 2013. Walsh was a below average kicker in 4 of his 6 seasons, and a bottom 5 one in 3 of his 6 seasons. He had his best season before Zimmer became coach, his second best season after Zimmer gave him a chance to make up for his poor 2014, and was terrible after that.

Zimmer sticking with Walsh in 2015 might be the reason he has so little patience with kickers now. He stuck with him and he ended up losing him a playoff game on a kick that couldn't have been easier to make.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:08 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:26 pm
Ram fans I spoke to are very sad to see Jackson go. Guy apparently has a lot of potential.
i like hearing that. :D :beerock:
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by RandyMoss84 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:53 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:26 pm
Ram fans I spoke to are very sad to see Jackson go. Guy apparently has a lot of potential.
Interesting, I hope Jackson does well
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:44 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:35 am

Walsh hit 86% in 2013, and 92% in 2012.
That was good for top 10 in 2012 and 19th in 2013. Walsh was a below average kicker in 4 of his 6 seasons, and a bottom 5 one in 3 of his 6 seasons. He had his best season before Zimmer became coach, his second best season after Zimmer gave him a chance to make up for his poor 2014, and was terrible after that.

Zimmer sticking with Walsh in 2015 might be the reason he has so little patience with kickers now. He stuck with him and he ended up losing him a playoff game on a kick that couldn't have been easier to make.
86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.
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Re: Vikings sign Trishon Jackson and Jordan Berry

Post by VikingsVictorious » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:44 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:03 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:44 am

That was good for top 10 in 2012 and 19th in 2013. Walsh was a below average kicker in 4 of his 6 seasons, and a bottom 5 one in 3 of his 6 seasons. He had his best season before Zimmer became coach, his second best season after Zimmer gave him a chance to make up for his poor 2014, and was terrible after that.

Zimmer sticking with Walsh in 2015 might be the reason he has so little patience with kickers now. He stuck with him and he ended up losing him a playoff game on a kick that couldn't have been easier to make.
86% is still better than anything we’ve had since.

Look, I get it. Walsh fell apart. I’m interested in the timing. He was good … then Zimmer came, and he wasn’t. Nor has anyone else been except maybe Bailey for part of a season. There’s no winning this argument, but I think there’s a good chance Zimmer has a negative effect on kickers. You’re not going to change my mind, and it appears I’m not going to change yours.

Just don’t be surprised when our kicking game sucks again this year.
If I was an NFL quality kicker I wouldn't join the Vikings unless I had no other option.
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