Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by IIsweet » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:03 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:49 am
CharVike wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:27 am

Mahomes is the best young QB in the game. At this stage he looks to be a HOF guy. But he wouldn't be able to mask this OL. If he could do that there team would have drafted a couple guys and inserted them. They inserted two top flight OL players this year instead. OL is an important piece and the Chief teams knows this.
His Oline gave up pressure on 41% of Mahomes' dropbacks this Sunday. 11% more than the Vikings' Oline.
That is because you have to blitz and attempt to create havoc on Defense to try to create confusion with the offense. If sitting back, Mahomes will pick you apart with his arm and those speedy WRs. Don't have to bring additional pressure against the Vikings because they cannot stop the initial front 4, which is also not always pressuring, because they scheme to clog lanes and not give Cook lanes to run thru !
KC passes often, so you have to create pressure.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by CharVike » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:49 am

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:50 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:10 pm


Excellent post. I also saw cousins PFF grade. I said to a buddy today, I swear it’s like a black cloud over this teams head. The cousins haters love to say “he can’t lead a game winning drive blah blah”. Well of course this time he led TWO game winning drives when the ball is in his court and one led to the game tying field goal and one was where cook fumbled.

Cousins does what he’s suppose to do and then others crap the bed. Was cousins a little shaky early on? Yeah but after he got in a rhythm he was just fine. He was exactly why we came back when the defense started to crap. The haters can’t use the “cook carried the team” argument because that sure didn’t happen.

In regards to the pocket collapsing, yeah Bradburys lack of strength is continuing to kill us. They didn’t change their philosophy of what style lineman they are looking for until this year. It was always the “let’s get the athlete up front that can get to the second level”. Now they finally strayed towards the “let’s get some guys with strength and an anchor up front” which I’ve been saying they need for years. They even admitted thats what they did. But here we are with darrisaw hurt and Davis on the bench.

Either way, this philosophy and style comes from zimmer. That “toe the line” mentality of his. That stubbornness. That conservative “im still living in 1980” mentality. Zimmer has been a problem for a while now and I’ve been saying this for a few seasons. He hit his peak with the number 1 defense in the nfl in 2017 but since, his defenses have crapped. This defense will be better but im still worried about our DBs. But at this point, if he can’t put a top tier defense out there anymore, what’s the point of keeping him around. He has and is continuing to hold this team back. There is so much talent on both sides of the ball and his mentality and own ways are getting in the way of this team improving.

Im just so done with him at this point. He literally wants zero involvement with the offense. He’d rather have a teddy bridgewater back that can’t throw the ball and forces them to run all the time. He’s completely content with winning games 3-0.

Also a side note, it seems like we’re going under center much more again. This does not help cousins at all and doesn’t play to his strengths. Sure the play action aspect some but that can also happen out of the gun. When cousins has to take a 7 step drop from under center more often than not when you have a center that couldn’t bench press 100 pounds, it’s not good

I’ve always said, the worst spot to get pressure from when you have a pure pocket passing QB is right up the middle because their pocket is now gone when your center gets driven back. I’m telling you right now, if Garrett Bradbury was Tom Brady’s center, Tom Brady would be screwed. Royally screwed. I don’t care who the QB is, if they throw from the pocket consistently, they are in trouble when you have an interior that has no anchor.

What I would’ve done if this was my team, was move Cleveland to LT way back when darrisaw was out and get Davis in at left guard. That gets Jill the hell out of there. They have given Cleveland zero shot at tackle and that’s what he’s played his entire life. They didn’t put him here last year because they had Reiff and they didn’t bother moving him this year becuase they drafted darrisaw. It’s literally the same exact thing as them putting Brian O’Neill at guard. Never would they have done that and he fell into his spot at RT. Cleveland didn’t have that opportunity becuase they weren’t benching Reiff and took darrisaw to take over at LT the following year. Wyatt Davis had a solid preseason and should be in at guard. He’s a TRUE guard. Instead we have two tackles playing guard in Udoh and Cleveland and they get tossed around because they are athletes that are long and use to playing on the edge

I’ve preached this for a while now and looks like I’ll continue to preach the same this season. There’s nothing we can do about Bradbury right now becuase we have no other options but the rest of this line can change and they will never, ever consider it.

Either way, sorry about the long rant but this is on zim. LARGELY on Zim
It's just the nature of the game today. I don't know how to numerically quantify it, but the QB is so far and away the most important player on any team, and has such a disproportionate impact on the outcome of games. If you lack a QB who is 'elite enough', its going to be tough to win often enough to get anywhere.

At this point, there is plenty of blame for the management/coaching combo not seeming to be on the same page, for Zimmer himself, etc. All true. The thing is, Kirk still isn't good enough to give his team a legitimate chance at winning enough plays to win enough games to win important game, to win the big game. If he has the skill set to overcome 2, 3, 4, of the negative plays, the vikings win this game, and many other games.

He is the variable that has most power to transcend the limitations around him, because he is the guy with the ball in his hands, but he lacks the ability to transcend them.
Zimmer is longing for an early 70s game. He can't change and should be fired. All you need to do is look at the QBs who have made the Super Bowl from the NFC. Jimmy G made it. Is he that much better than Kirk? Goff made it. Is he that much better? Foles made it with the help of Wentz. I don't see any HOF super star guys there. Those teams all played very well at the end and had well rounded teams. That Eagle D held our offense to 7 points in the NFC champ game. That's playing D. Same game our D gave up 30 something. That's with the Eagles pulling the plug. That's not playing D. I don't think we have the core players to challenge for the tittle no matter who we have a QB. Brady is the current champ. The best to play the game. Do you actually think he makes our team the Super Bowl favorite? I don't.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:15 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:51 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:10 pm

Excellent post. I also saw cousins PFF grade. I said to a buddy today, I swear it’s like a black cloud over this teams head. The cousins haters love to say “he can’t lead a game winning drive blah blah”. Well of course this time he led TWO game winning drives when the ball is in his court and one led to the game tying field goal and one was where cook fumbled.

Cousins does what he’s suppose to do and then others crap the bed. Was cousins a little shaky early on? Yeah but after he got in a rhythm he was just fine. He was exactly why we came back when the defense started to crap. The haters can’t use the “cook carried the team” argument because that sure didn’t happen.
I have come to the conclusion that the issue isn't haters it is the people who claim things like Cousins lead two game winning drives, neither of which won the game. :confused:
Really? So now we're going to play dumb? We would've lost outright in regulation if it wasnt for the first drive. So yeah, that gave us a second chance. As for the second drive, that was in OT when we were marching down the field and got screwed on a botched call. But regardless, did Kirk Cousins fumble or did Dalvin Cook? Oh wait, it must've been Kirk that stripped the ball out of Dalvin's hands :roll:

But to address the "issue", yes it's most definitely the haters. All you have to do is look in the mirror brother. Being critical is one thing, nitpicking and pointing the finger at him every time he farts because you cant stand him is another. I've always said, if Cousins loses us a game, I have no problem saying that. Have before and have no problem doing it again. However, if you dont see that Cousins was the only reason we were in that game at the end, I would love to know who you think brought us back and kept us in the game after the defense got scored on 3 straight times in a row.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:29 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:15 am

Really? So now we're going to play dumb and act clueless? We would've lost outright in regulation if it wasnt for the first drive. So yeah, that gave us a second chance. As for the second drive, that was in OT when we were marching down the field and got screwed on a botched call. But regardless, did Kirk Cousins fumble or did Dalvin Cook? Oh wait, it must've been Kirk that stripped the ball out of Dalvin's hands :roll:
I am not playing dumb. You claimed Kirk had two game winning drives in a game we didn't win. Technically that is impossible. He had one game tieing drive and after the defense had two game saving stops(at the time), he had a drive that might have won the game. It might have also resulted in a missed FG and a tie or a false start that knocked us out of a FG range, or an interception on 2nd or 3rd down, or a sack. Blaming him for the turnover at the end of the game would be wrong, but so is giving him credit for something that didn't happen.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:15 am
But to address the "issue", yes it's most definitely the haters. All you have to do is look in the mirror brother. Being critical is one thing, nitpicking and pointing the finger at him every time he farts because you cant stand him is another. I've always said, if Cousins loses us a game, I have no problem saying that. Have before and have no problem doing it again. However, if you dont see that Cousins was the only reason we were in that game at the end, I would love to know who you think brought us back and kept us in the game after the defense got scored on 3 straight times in a row.
Labelling people haters because you disagree with them is not only childish, it adds nothing.

Cousins wasn't the ONLY reason we were in that game and saying as much is as stupid as someone claiming he was the ONLY reason we lost the game.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by VikingLord » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:08 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:51 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:10 pm

Excellent post. I also saw cousins PFF grade. I said to a buddy today, I swear it’s like a black cloud over this teams head. The cousins haters love to say “he can’t lead a game winning drive blah blah”. Well of course this time he led TWO game winning drives when the ball is in his court and one led to the game tying field goal and one was where cook fumbled.

Cousins does what he’s suppose to do and then others crap the bed. Was cousins a little shaky early on? Yeah but after he got in a rhythm he was just fine. He was exactly why we came back when the defense started to crap. The haters can’t use the “cook carried the team” argument because that sure didn’t happen.
I have come to the conclusion that the issue isn't haters it is the people who claim things like Cousins lead two game winning drives, neither of which won the game. :confused:
Why is the focus on Cousins in this last game at all?

In my view he didn't win the game any more than he lost the game. He played well enough to win had other aspects played better, but also didn't make any amazing plays to compensate for those other aspects not playing better.

In the end, Cousins isn't the problem any more than he's the solution.

The problem against the Bengals were the offensive and defensive lines primarily along with some of the defensive secondary. The OL looked overmatched against a pretty underwhelming defensive front most of the game. They couldn't pass block consistently (Cousins did get pressured frequently), couldn't run block (Cook had nowhere to run most of the game), and couldn't execute (way too many penalties on the OL all game). They are the biggest reason why the team lost.

Right behind them is the defensive front who did a piss poor job of limiting the Bengals running game, mostly due to sloppy and undisciplined play up front (Hunter, in particular, was very undisciplined and allowed Mixon multiple huge cutback lanes). They generated some pass rush, which was nice, but it wasn't nearly enough. The secondary play was very uneven. Breeland in particular struggled, but he wasn't alone. That defensive performance was not near what I expected to see given all the changes that were made this offseason and all the purported talent the Vikings have on that side of the football now. They gave up too many running yards on early downs and the big plays down the field were reminiscent of last year as well.

Zimmer's team overall wasn't ready to play. Blame that on too conservative a preseason, the weather conditions on the field with the heat and humidity, or maybe the Vikings believing the Bengals were not a good team, but whatever it was, the Bengals were ready to play as a team and the Vikings were not.

THAT is what needs to be addressed.

The only thing I wanted to see from Cousins that I didn't see was a deep attempt or two. Just something to take the top off the defense and maybe draw a flag. Other than that he wasn't the issue.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:31 am

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:08 pm

Why is the focus on Cousins in this last game at all?
Because he cant bring himself NOT to at this point. It's an obsession
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by VikingLord » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:54 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:31 am
VikingLord wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:08 pm

Why is the focus on Cousins in this last game at all?
Because he cant bring himself NOT to at this point. It's an obsession
I wasn't directing that question at just Stump even though I quoted him in my response.

I was directing it at everyone involved in the discussion about Cousins in the last game.

Cousins in the last game was OK. Compared to the glaring issues exposed on with the OL and defense, Cousins is like a blip on the radar, while the other aspects are hurricane eyewall clouds.

Cousins isn't the problem - the same units that sunk the team last season are, and unless Zimmer figures out a way to improve them fast, will be again this season.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:47 am

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:54 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:31 am


Because he cant bring himself NOT to at this point. It's an obsession
I wasn't directing that question at just Stump even though I quoted him in my response.

I was directing it at everyone involved in the discussion about Cousins in the last game.

Cousins in the last game was OK. Compared to the glaring issues exposed on with the OL and defense, Cousins is like a blip on the radar, while the other aspects are hurricane eyewall clouds.

Cousins isn't the problem - the same units that sunk the team last season are, and unless Zimmer figures out a way to improve them fast, will be again this season.
And it will be again next season, guaranteed. Just like I knew it would be prior to this season despite people arguing that we had "greatly improved" the Oline.

Part of that is because of the talent. The GM is not good at identifying Oline and only 1 of the 5 starters actually has the talent to be a great Olineman. Part of that is on coaching. Dennison has never proven he can coach up players on the Oline at best, and at worst, he hurts young talent. We now have that guy's backup as our Oline coach. Part of that is who they are blocking for as Zimmer alluded too during halftime.

The mind boggling part of this was that the Vikings could have attempted to fix one of those issues easily this past off season and refused to move on from Dennison. Instead they tried to fix the harder two issues to address: adding better talent on the Oline and adding a QB who moves well in the pocket. So far neither of those have worked out and won't work out and probably were never going to work out this year with how they went about doing it.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by vikeinmontana » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:56 am

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:08 pm

Why is the focus on Cousins in this last game at all?
Par for the course. Find me any NFL team, or college for that matter where the QB position isn't the most talked about. Fair or unfair, whenever discussing a football team, the QB will make up about 90% of that conversation.

Throw in the fact that said QB is one of the highest paid in the entire league, and he'll likely be the center of discussion in nearly every topic.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by CharVike » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:33 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:54 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:31 am


Because he cant bring himself NOT to at this point. It's an obsession
I wasn't directing that question at just Stump even though I quoted him in my response.

I was directing it at everyone involved in the discussion about Cousins in the last game.

Cousins in the last game was OK. Compared to the glaring issues exposed on with the OL and defense, Cousins is like a blip on the radar, while the other aspects are hurricane eyewall clouds.

Cousins isn't the problem - the same units that sunk the team last season are, and unless Zimmer figures out a way to improve them fast, will be again this season.
I have more confidence that our D line can improve than I do in our OL. We have some good to very good talent on our DL. They will improve as Zimmer and his staff figure out how to use them better. You can't let backs rip off 100 yards every week. There's nothing that can be done for the OL. It's worse than it was last year. Teams will abuse that unit all season. It's too late to get some talent that boat sailed along time ago. Wait and hope is the battle cry for that group.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by VikingLord » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:01 pm

Some might have seen this, but thought I would post the link to it here to add to the discussion about the OL:

https://www.startribune.com/film-review ... fresh=true

You know it's bad when the opposing DC can target it all game and there isn't really any answer from the offense.

We can expect more of the same all year unless the Vikings find a way to answer it too. Cousins is going to consistently get pressured up the middle and have his ability to step up in the pocket and escape pressure taken away in the passing game because of this, while Cook and the running game will have to find most of their yardage outside the tackles.

After watching the play summaries at the included link I'm almost wondering if the Vikings can make a trade or do something to replace Bradbury yet this season. Short of Davis stepping up, I don't think they have a viable alternative at center, but after watching Bradbury get consistently driven back and being ineffective run blocking since he joined the team I think Spielman and Zimmer have to call a spade a spade and admit that pick isn't going to work out.

Cleveland also struggles against bigger interior linemen, but he seems to do a better job holding his ground at least. Udoh I think should be fine as he has the size and strength to handle interior rushers, but not sure he has the technique down. Of those 3 I think he's got the best chance to round out and be a reliable interior starter.

Arg, top-flight skill position talent across the board on offense is negated by subpar interior OL talent yet again. Broken record that needs to change. I don't think I can take watching another year where Cousins is getting consumed by a defensive tackle just as he turns to look downfield, or watch Cook getting hit 3 yards deep before he can make any decision about where to run.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by CharVike » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:55 am

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:01 pm
Some might have seen this, but thought I would post the link to it here to add to the discussion about the OL:

https://www.startribune.com/film-review ... fresh=true

You know it's bad when the opposing DC can target it all game and there isn't really any answer from the offense.

We can expect more of the same all year unless the Vikings find a way to answer it too. Cousins is going to consistently get pressured up the middle and have his ability to step up in the pocket and escape pressure taken away in the passing game because of this, while Cook and the running game will have to find most of their yardage outside the tackles.

After watching the play summaries at the included link I'm almost wondering if the Vikings can make a trade or do something to replace Bradbury yet this season. Short of Davis stepping up, I don't think they have a viable alternative at center, but after watching Bradbury get consistently driven back and being ineffective run blocking since he joined the team I think Spielman and Zimmer have to call a spade a spade and admit that pick isn't going to work out.

Cleveland also struggles against bigger interior linemen, but he seems to do a better job holding his ground at least. Udoh I think should be fine as he has the size and strength to handle interior rushers, but not sure he has the technique down. Of those 3 I think he's got the best chance to round out and be a reliable interior starter.

Arg, top-flight skill position talent across the board on offense is negated by subpar interior OL talent yet again. Broken record that needs to change. I don't think I can take watching another year where Cousins is getting consumed by a defensive tackle just as he turns to look downfield, or watch Cook getting hit 3 yards deep before he can make any decision about where to run.
Speilman already made a trade in the off season for Cole. I think the trade gun is empty. He started 14 games at center one year. Just throw him in unannounced. I think he's still a center but he also could be a G and maybe a T since he played that in college. Basically a knowledge of everything master of nothing type. We need to play the guy we have and hope he don't get hurt. Just the opposite of what's needed.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by CharVike » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:15 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:39 pm
vikeinmontana wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:33 pm
I think we as fans overthink this too much. As long as our o-line continues to be awful, a guy like Kirk isn't good enough. If Kirk played for the Cowboys he'd likely look better than he does with us. If we had Mahomes, he'd likely be able to mask our abysmal line play. As it stands, we have an immobile qb behind an atrocious offensive line; thus both are going to look terrible.

Not a fun spot to be.
This is true, but I think it is a point worth emphasizing that Kirk is both immobile and doesn't throw until he sees guys open. You could mitigate the OL struggles if either one of those things weren't the case.
Everyone says Cousins is immobile. I have seen him run bootlegs and complete the pass. That takes mobility. Can he sprint out and take it 70 yards like Lamar Jackson no. He doesn't have his speed or running ability. That's expecting a player to do a task that he has no skill for. Ask Theilen to blow the top off the house with his speed. That won't and can't happen. Doesn't mean he sucks. He performs great within the boundaries of his skill level. It's always said that Cousins never extends a play which is another bunch of BS. This link I provide the dude even said the play was extended by Cousins. He should throw to a guy that's tripled teamed and fully covered? That has zero chance of a completion. That makes sense. He can read a coverage and it's shown here. Looks at the primary and then come across to the secondary. He buys time with fakes from the body. But everyone says he can't by time or extend. Now maybe this guy is a homer and he's full of it. The tape says otherwise. Cousin has thrown some horrible passes and has had some terrible games. That will happen again. Maybe this week. But the Skins franchised him twice and teams did attempt to sign him during FA . This clips just goes the opposite of what you just posted.

https://youtu.be/NL52D1j60mU
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by CharVike » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:44 pm

CharVike wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:15 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:39 pm


This is true, but I think it is a point worth emphasizing that Kirk is both immobile and doesn't throw until he sees guys open. You could mitigate the OL struggles if either one of those things weren't the case.
Everyone says Cousins is immobile. I have seen him run bootlegs and complete the pass. That takes mobility. Can he sprint out and take it 70 yards like Lamar Jackson no. He doesn't have his speed or running ability. That's expecting a player to do a task that he has no skill for. Ask Theilen to blow the top off the house with his speed. That won't and can't happen. Doesn't mean he sucks. He performs great within the boundaries of his skill level. It's always said that Cousins never extends a play which is another bunch of BS. This link I provide the dude even said the play was extended by Cousins. He should throw to a guy that's tripled teamed and fully covered? That has zero chance of a completion. That makes sense. He can read a coverage and it's shown here. Looks at the primary and then come across to the secondary. He buys time with fakes from the body. But everyone says he can't by time or extend. Now maybe this guy is a homer and he's full of it. The tape says otherwise. Cousin has thrown some horrible passes and has had some terrible games. That will happen again. Maybe this week. But the Skins franchised him twice and teams did attempt to sign him during FA . This clips just goes the opposite of what you just posted.

https://youtu.be/NL52D1j60mU
Also people say he has no anticipation zero. Never throws until the guy is open and just stands there. That's not true either. He makes some throws here that show anticipation as the ball is throw long before the catch point and he drops in a bucket.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by ERIK the PURPLE » Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:27 am

I think it’s time we got creative on the O-Line schemes. It’s obvious our front 5 can’t get the job done consistently. Why not throw in an extra tackle or guard and play a 6 man line? Maybe a 6 man line with and Ham or a TE on the other side. Dalton at RB and 2 WR’s.
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