Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:52 pm

CharVike wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:10 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:32 am


I thought Dak played well enough to win last night.

Of course, so did Brady, but at least in terms of QB performance the two looked comparable.

The result of the game is more a reflection of the fact that the result of a game doesn't always come down to which QB played better and instead can be the result of special teams and/or defense. Trying to boil a result like last night's down to the QBs does a disservice to both IMHO.
Dak played well but he lost. I know games come down to more than just a QB. My point was that Stump pointed out that Cousins has a losing record against winning teams and I pointed out so does Dak who is rated in the media as much better than Cousins.
No, I don't really care that Cousins has a losing record against winning teams. If it were as simple as him having a losing record, it could be excused away and wouldn't be that concerning. What I care about is that his record against winning teams is awful, like worst in the NFL bad.

7-35 for Cousins (.190 win %) and 3-16 (.163) as a Viking

13-20 for Dak (.393 win %)

Nearly twice the number of wins in 9 fewer opportunities.

If Kirk won against winning teams at the same rate Dak did, he would have won 5 more games and the Vikings would have been in the playoffs all three years he was QB here. THAT is why his win % against winning teams matters. Not to mention the last time I checked most playoff teams have winning records, and I also believe that you have to beat playoff teams to advance in the playoffs. To win the SB, you likely have to advance in the playoffs as well. Don't quote me on that though.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by VikingLord » Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:03 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:52 pm
If Kirk won against winning teams at the same rate Dak did, he would have won 5 more games and the Vikings would have been in the playoffs all three years he was QB here. THAT is why his win % against winning teams matters.
I realize as time goes on this factor becomes increasingly likely to average out, and I think you discussed this before, but any chance Cousins is just incredibly unlucky and/or other factors beyond his control have just cut against him that cause his won-loss stats against winning teams to not accurately reflect his contributions in the games against winning teams?

Put another way, he's played well enough to win in most of those losses, but ended up on the losing side because the team around him just stunk it up in one way or another?

Another way of putting it would be to look at Zimmer's record in those same games, as Zimmer would have the same record. Could the results attributed to Cousins in those games not more accurately reflect Zimmer's coaching decisions/preparations against winning teams than Cousins ability to overcome them?

You can probably tease out that last factor by looking at Cousins' entire career against winning teams (maybe your stats already did that) so that isolates his relative contribution more across distinct teams and coaches, but I think to be fair to Cousins you have to find ways to tease out his individual contributions to the net outcomes to fairly criticize his ability or lack thereof to win against winning teams.
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:52 pm
To win the SB, you likely have to advance in the playoffs as well. Don't quote me on that though.
:rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol:

This has been one of the more entertaining days on the Vikings Message Board...
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by 808vikingsfan » Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:46 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:28 am
My posts are in line with what everyone outside of MN thinks of Cousins. I am not the crazy one here, I am the one pointing out the reality that some just don't want to see.
This right here.

100% of the opinions of Cousins would be different if he wasn't on this team.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by VikingsVictorious » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:56 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:46 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:35 pm
Jim Rome was the undisputed tool of all sports media until undefeated host Skip Bayless came along to give him competition. When he had Jim Everett on his show and called him Cris he was very deserving of an #### whooping.
:lol:

Kapp and you are cracking me up today.
He did deserve what he got right. They stopped Everett before he could do any real damage, but Rome was on the ground fetal.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by VikingsVictorious » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:01 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:46 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:28 am
My posts are in line with what everyone outside of MN thinks of Cousins. I am not the crazy one here, I am the one pointing out the reality that some just don't want to see.
This right here.

100% of the opinions of Cousins would be different if he wasn't on this team.
I agree that Stump and the haters would have a different opinion on Cousins if he wasn't on the Vikings, but no way would 100% of the opinions be different. I liked Cousins before and after he was a Viking so clearly my opinion wouldn't be different.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by CharVike » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:56 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:52 pm
CharVike wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:10 pm

Dak played well but he lost. I know games come down to more than just a QB. My point was that Stump pointed out that Cousins has a losing record against winning teams and I pointed out so does Dak who is rated in the media as much better than Cousins.
No, I don't really care that Cousins has a losing record against winning teams. If it were as simple as him having a losing record, it could be excused away and wouldn't be that concerning. What I care about is that his record against winning teams is awful, like worst in the NFL bad.

7-35 for Cousins (.190 win %) and 3-16 (.163) as a Viking

13-20 for Dak (.393 win %)

Nearly twice the number of wins in 9 fewer opportunities.

If Kirk won against winning teams at the same rate Dak did, he would have won 5 more games and the Vikings would have been in the playoffs all three years he was QB here. THAT is why his win % against winning teams matters. Not to mention the last time I checked most playoff teams have winning records, and I also believe that you have to beat playoff teams to advance in the playoffs. To win the SB, you likely have to advance in the playoffs as well. Don't quote me on that though.
Last year we got knocked out of the playoffs when Cousins lost to a winning team the Saints. We scored 33 and couldn't win. Our D gave up 52. But in your opinion most QB would win that one. The last time we gave up 52 points was in 1961. We didn't win that one either. The 102 points the Vikings have given up in their first three games of 2020 is the most in their 60-year history. That was 3 winning teams that beat Cousins. You think a defense like that is a playoff team with a better QB? We basically had a first year expansion team defense last year. IMO there isn't a QB that ever played this game that was taking that hunk of junk to the playoffs.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:32 am

CharVike wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:56 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:52 pm


No, I don't really care that Cousins has a losing record against winning teams. If it were as simple as him having a losing record, it could be excused away and wouldn't be that concerning. What I care about is that his record against winning teams is awful, like worst in the NFL bad.

7-35 for Cousins (.190 win %) and 3-16 (.163) as a Viking

13-20 for Dak (.393 win %)

Nearly twice the number of wins in 9 fewer opportunities.

If Kirk won against winning teams at the same rate Dak did, he would have won 5 more games and the Vikings would have been in the playoffs all three years he was QB here. THAT is why his win % against winning teams matters. Not to mention the last time I checked most playoff teams have winning records, and I also believe that you have to beat playoff teams to advance in the playoffs. To win the SB, you likely have to advance in the playoffs as well. Don't quote me on that though.
Last year we got knocked out of the playoffs when Cousins lost to a winning team the Saints. We scored 33 and couldn't win. Our D gave up 52. But in your opinion most QB would win that one. The last time we gave up 52 points was in 1961. We didn't win that one either. The 102 points the Vikings have given up in their first three games of 2020 is the most in their 60-year history. That was 3 winning teams that beat Cousins. You think a defense like that is a playoff team with a better QB? We basically had a first year expansion team defense last year. IMO there isn't a QB that ever played this game that was taking that hunk of junk to the playoffs.
Yet Cousins almost did. :shock:
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by Thaumaturgist » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:39 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:01 pm
808vikingsfan wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:46 pm


This right here.

100% of the opinions of Cousins would be different if he wasn't on this team.
I agree that Stump and the haters would have a different opinion on Cousins if he wasn't on the Vikings, but no way would 100% of the opinions be different. I liked Cousins before and after he was a Viking so clearly my opinion wouldn't be different.
Can you please try to refrain from the name calling, Haters, etc...
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by CharVike » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:54 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:32 am
CharVike wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:56 pm

Last year we got knocked out of the playoffs when Cousins lost to a winning team the Saints. We scored 33 and couldn't win. Our D gave up 52. But in your opinion most QB would win that one. The last time we gave up 52 points was in 1961. We didn't win that one either. The 102 points the Vikings have given up in their first three games of 2020 is the most in their 60-year history. That was 3 winning teams that beat Cousins. You think a defense like that is a playoff team with a better QB? We basically had a first year expansion team defense last year. IMO there isn't a QB that ever played this game that was taking that hunk of junk to the playoffs.
Yet Cousins almost did. :shock:
We all have opinions on the players of the team. Kirk isn't well liked by some and the media certainly can't stand him. RG III hates him because he beat his lame a$$ out. Kirk isn't a top 5 guy we all know that. He's not cheap but it's not like every good player we had bolted since he came here. Matter of fact we are actually overpaying guys. Look at this OL we have. How can a GM and the coaches be satisfied with that. Zimmer has stated he's not concerned which is mind bending. A bad OL has an impact on the QB. One poster stated a QB makes the OL good. Brady's current center was a pro bowler before he got there but Brady made that happen. Every stat Kirk ever put up is garbage to some. Basically if your down by 10 the game is over and every stat after that is garbage. The team should give up. Stauback who is a HOFer kept playing hard when his team was down and it worked out great at times including beating us with a garbage time throw to make the Super Bowl. Every stat can be twisted. This year I wanted Jones to be the pick and the kid has won the starting job already. I also liked the Samia pick and he's out of the league. I'm no expert. This year it's the same story again. We need to beat out Rodgers for the title. Could that happen? Sure but we need to stay healthy and every player needs to play at their best level. Some like our entire OL needs to improve and start dominating the action. Take games over. We'll see what happens.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:43 pm

Thaumaturgist wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:39 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:01 pm

I agree that Stump and the haters would have a different opinion on Cousins if he wasn't on the Vikings, but no way would 100% of the opinions be different. I liked Cousins before and after he was a Viking so clearly my opinion wouldn't be different.
Can you please try to refrain from the name calling, Haters, etc...
Is haters name calling. Maybe where you come from. It's just a word to describe those who are against someone where I come from.
Is denigrators better? What's the word I should have used?
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:18 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:43 pm
Thaumaturgist wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:39 am


Can you please try to refrain from the name calling, Haters, etc...
Is haters name calling. Maybe where you come from. It's just a word to describe those who are against someone where I come from.
Is denigrators better? What's the word I should have used?
You could always try not to put labels on people and just discuss the points they make instead of trying to pigeon hole them into a group.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:23 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:32 am
CharVike wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:56 pm

Last year we got knocked out of the playoffs when Cousins lost to a winning team the Saints. We scored 33 and couldn't win. Our D gave up 52. But in your opinion most QB would win that one. The last time we gave up 52 points was in 1961. We didn't win that one either. The 102 points the Vikings have given up in their first three games of 2020 is the most in their 60-year history. That was 3 winning teams that beat Cousins. You think a defense like that is a playoff team with a better QB? We basically had a first year expansion team defense last year. IMO there isn't a QB that ever played this game that was taking that hunk of junk to the playoffs.
Yet Cousins almost did. :shock:
Not really.

You know which QB actually did make the playoffs with a defense as bad as ours though? Ryan Tannehill. His defense gave up 2.67 points per drive, ours 2.68. 40 yards per driver compared to our 37.

He did have a great RB to rely on though, something Kirk didn't have...nm.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:02 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:23 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:32 am

Yet Cousins almost did. :shock:
Not really.

You know which QB actually did make the playoffs with a defense as bad as ours though? Ryan Tannehill. His defense gave up 2.67 points per drive, ours 2.68. 40 yards per driver compared to our 37.

He did have a great RB to rely on though, something Kirk didn't have...nm.
Dalvin is not great?
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by Rhodes Closed » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:52 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:23 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:32 am

Yet Cousins almost did. :shock:
Not really.

You know which QB actually did make the playoffs with a defense as bad as ours though? Ryan Tannehill. His defense gave up 2.67 points per drive, ours 2.68. 40 yards per driver compared to our 37.

He did have a great RB to rely on though, something Kirk didn't have...nm.
And here you have not a damn clue what you are even talking about.
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Re: Vikings QB Kellen Mond test positive for COVID; three QBs including Kirk Cousins expected to miss practice

Post by CharVike » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:41 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:23 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:32 am

Yet Cousins almost did. :shock:
Not really.

You know which QB actually did make the playoffs with a defense as bad as ours though? Ryan Tannehill. His defense gave up 2.67 points per drive, ours 2.68. 40 yards per driver compared to our 37.

He did have a great RB to rely on though, something Kirk didn't have...nm.
Ryan Tannehill is a good QB who was picked No 8 overall in his draft class. Came in and started from day 1 and is still starting. That's not easy. If he gets cut today teams would be chasing him. Same thing would happen with Cousins. Tannehill could get that team to the Super Bowl with a better supporting cast. The guy had 9.6 yards per attempt in 2019 which is impressive. If you feel he's better than Cousins I won't argue that. We all have opinions about players. He also has a losing record against winning teams which to some is a knock and basically is a loser in that regard.
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