2024 NFL Draft

[CharVike]

I'm gonna chime in here with my two cents. I don't know the X's and O's of football that most of you do. So I'm not gonna get into which players I like/don't like because I honestly have no idea. But I don't really understand the "don't trade up" philosophy some of you have. I just want the Vikes to get 'their guy'. That may mean we have to trade up. Fine, do it. Or that may mean we can stay at 11 and 23 and get Penix. Even better, do it. All I know is this franchise has never drafted a QB in the top 10 and look how that's panned out. And this is the first time in a long time we have the draft capital to go up and get their guy if need be. In my humble opinion getting a true, game changing QB is paramount and everything else comes secondary. So do whatever it takes (within reason of course) and get him. Sure, you can win some games without one. But we'll be stuck in the same purgatory we've been in forever. And sure, whatever QB we get may be a bust. But we HAVE to at least try!!! My biggest fear in this draft is KAM misses out on whoever KOC deems 'the guy' because he's playing moneyball. I'd rather them swing and miss then not swing at all.

Isn't a team using it's first pick in the draft taking a swing?

But IMO if you are going to take a swing then put your best swing on it. I think that's what Dakota is saying and I agree. In any draft every pick is a swing but we all have to admit the 1st pick is the best swing. We all saw that with our GMs 1st draft. In his original slot the best player was available for him at the position of need. He ignored that and went down and grabbed the 3rd safety selected. QB is the more prominent position. You miss that and the show is over for at least 4 years and in reality much longer because the cycle will be repeated. The Atlantic had an article that points this out.
https://theathletic.com/5256546/2024/02 ... ncy-draft/
Thirteen of the 67 quarterbacks who will have started a Super Bowl by Sunday were the top picks in their respective drafts. That includes 11 No. 1 selections in the standard NFL draft, a No. 1 pick in the 1965 AFL Draft (Joe Namath) and the top choice in the NFL’s supplemental draft in 1984 (Steve Young). That’s a staggering 19.4 percent of starting Super Bowl quarterbacks who were taken at the top of the draft.
I do think Penix will be the pick because it's the easiest and more ready to be a starter. In my mind I want nothing to do with him. He gets hit for that terrible championship game performance but he deserves it. Mr Happy feet. Harbough said before the Champ game Penix has the "IT FACTOR" That's a bunch of blabber. The IT factor is nothing but a talking point to avoid the question asked.
He couldn't say we are coming at him and he will eventually get happy feet because he will start seeing ghost rushers.

[VikingLord]

Thirteen of the 67 quarterbacks who will have started a Super Bowl by Sunday were the top picks in their respective drafts. That includes 11 No. 1 selections in the standard NFL draft, a No. 1 pick in the 1965 AFL Draft (Joe Namath) and the top choice in the NFL’s supplemental draft in 1984 (Steve Young). That’s a staggering 19.4 percent of starting Super Bowl quarterbacks who were taken at the top of the draft.

How about over the last ten years, or even last 20? I suspect that percentage has gone down over time.

Harbough said before the Champ game Penix has the "IT FACTOR"

So you think Harbaugh was not being honest?

Penix carried that Washington team on his back to the national championship game. They had a crappy offensive line and his receivers were suspect as well. And you yourself always say that every QB will fail under pressure. So what gives singling Penix out for particular disdain?

Penix has his flaws for sure. They are why he's not in the top tier of QB prospects. But, none of his flaws are unfixable with the possible exception of his injury history, and if he checked out medically and ends up in the right situation Penix could be the steal of this year's draft. Mark my words on this one. He has rare arm talent and is a clear leader on the field. He makes the players around him much better than they otherwise would be.

[Dakotavike]

But I don't really understand the "don't trade up" philosophy some of you have. I just want the Vikes to get 'their guy'. That may mean we have to trade up.

I haven't see anyone say the Vikings shouldn't trade up if it made the most sense to trade up.

I have seen people question whether such a move makes sense given what is known about the rookie QBs in this year's draft.

All I know is this franchise has never drafted a QB in the top 10 and look how that's panned out. And this is the first time in a long time we have the draft capital to go up and get their guy if need be.

Not sure I agree with you on that. Look at the QBs taken in the top 10 in the last 5 years (or heck, the last 10) and tell me who among that group has turned into a game-changing QB. Mahomes wasn't taken in the top 10. Neither was Rodgers. In fact, I think the list of game-changing QBs taken outside of the top 10 in the last 10 years of drafts is much longer than the list of game-changing QBs taken inside the top 10. All of that data over all of that time suggests two things to me - it is very hard to project success for pro QBs based on what is known of them coming out of college even when they have spent a long time in college and success in the pros requires the right setup even for otherwise talented players. That means where the team that takes a given QB is when it takes him and what is expected out of the player and when is probably a bigger factor in that player's ultimate success as anything else.

I believe Mahomes was drafted at No. 10. And without putting too much thought or research into it Josh Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Kyler Murray, Tua, Lawrence, Stafford, Goff, Stroud were all top 10 picks. And while not all those guys are game changing they're all solid to great NFL QB's. And yes, I do agree that there's amazing QB's that were drafted outside the top 10. And I also agree that it's super hard to project which ones will pan out. We don't have to trade up, but we do have to draft one. So it just seems to me that in a year that we're within reach of one of the 'top' guys in a draft that's deemed to be a strong QB class we can't be afraid to go up and get 'our guy' if need be. We, hopefully, won't find ourselves in this position again for a long time. So let's take advantage of it and get 'our guy' whoever that may be. I've just heard to many people on here and various podcasts that are dead set against trading up and I just don't agree on that logic.

[Alaskan]

Thirteen of the 67 quarterbacks who will have started a Super Bowl by Sunday were the top picks in their respective drafts. That includes 11 No. 1 selections in the standard NFL draft, a No. 1 pick in the 1965 AFL Draft (Joe Namath) and the top choice in the NFL’s supplemental draft in 1984 (Steve Young). That’s a staggering 19.4 percent of starting Super Bowl quarterbacks who were taken at the top of the draft.

How about over the last ten years, or even last 20? I suspect that percentage has gone down over time.

Harbough said before the Champ game Penix has the "IT FACTOR"

So you think Harbaugh was not being honest?

Penix carried that Washington team on his back to the national championship game. They had a crappy offensive line and his receivers were suspect as well. And you yourself always say that every QB will fail under pressure. So what gives singling Penix out for particular disdain?

Penix has his flaws for sure. They are why he's not in the top tier of QB prospects. But, none of his flaws are unfixable with the possible exception of his injury history, and if he checked out medically and ends up in the right situation Penix could be the steal of this year's draft. Mark my words on this one. He has rare arm talent and is a clear leader on the field. He makes the players around him much better than they otherwise would be.

I am not sure I agree with you on some of what you’re saying. I like Penix a lot. But to say he had a crappy Oline and suspect receivers is very questionable. His oline was one of the best in the nation. They won the Joe Moore award in 2024 for the best offensive line in the country. Link below for proof:

https://247sports.com/college/washingto ... 13806/amp/

And his #1 reciever was Odunze. Who is likely a top 10 pick in this draft. Maybe a top 5. He might be the best WR in the draft. Ja’lynn Polk is projected to be a 3rd rounder and so is Jalen McMillan. Both looked at highly by anyalists and scouts.

Penix was the leader of that offense no question. But he had a supporting cast. That’s the point I am trying to make. He didn’t make all those guys elite prospects like you are claiming. There are some great articles out there about Penix and how Michigan made him look pedestrian. This is what NFL defenses do. The get QBs off there spots with pressure! When that happens to Penix’s his production drops way off. It didn’t happen a lot at UW.

I am not against drafting Penix, but he wouldn’t be a top target at 11 or higher for me.

[VikingsVictorious]

Isn't a team using it's first pick in the draft taking a swing?

But IMO if you are going to take a swing then put your best swing on it. I think that's what Dakota is saying and I agree. In any draft every pick is a swing but we all have to admit the 1st pick is the best swing. We all saw that with our GMs 1st draft. In his original slot the best player was available for him at the position of need. He ignored that and went down and grabbed the 3rd safety selected. QB is the more prominent position. You miss that and the show is over for at least 4 years and in reality much longer because the cycle will be repeated. The Atlantic had an article that points this out.
https://theathletic.com/5256546/2024/02 ... ncy-draft/
Thirteen of the 67 quarterbacks who will have started a Super Bowl by Sunday were the top picks in their respective drafts. That includes 11 No. 1 selections in the standard NFL draft, a No. 1 pick in the 1965 AFL Draft (Joe Namath) and the top choice in the NFL’s supplemental draft in 1984 (Steve Young). That’s a staggering 19.4 percent of starting Super Bowl quarterbacks who were taken at the top of the draft.
I do think Penix will be the pick because it's the easiest and more ready to be a starter. In my mind I want nothing to do with him. He gets hit for that terrible championship game performance but he deserves it. Mr Happy feet. Harbough said before the Champ game Penix has the "IT FACTOR" That's a bunch of blabber. The IT factor is nothing but a talking point to avoid the question asked.
He couldn't say we are coming at him and he will eventually get happy feet because he will start seeing ghost rushers.

Pick 11 isn't just a swing. It's a very big swing. I guess every year we can do whatever it takes to get to #1 to take the very biggest swing, but it would be our only swing. Let's take a Big Swing at QB with pick 11 and be able to take more big swings like at 23 this year and in the first round next year.

[VikingsVictorious]

I haven't see anyone say the Vikings shouldn't trade up if it made the most sense to trade up.

I have seen people question whether such a move makes sense given what is known about the rookie QBs in this year's draft.



Not sure I agree with you on that. Look at the QBs taken in the top 10 in the last 5 years (or heck, the last 10) and tell me who among that group has turned into a game-changing QB. Mahomes wasn't taken in the top 10. Neither was Rodgers. In fact, I think the list of game-changing QBs taken outside of the top 10 in the last 10 years of drafts is much longer than the list of game-changing QBs taken inside the top 10. All of that data over all of that time suggests two things to me - it is very hard to project success for pro QBs based on what is known of them coming out of college even when they have spent a long time in college and success in the pros requires the right setup even for otherwise talented players. That means where the team that takes a given QB is when it takes him and what is expected out of the player and when is probably a bigger factor in that player's ultimate success as anything else.

I believe Mahomes was drafted at No. 10. And without putting too much thought or research into it Josh Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Kyler Murray, Tua, Lawrence, Stafford, Goff, Stroud were all top 10 picks. And while not all those guys are game changing they're all solid to great NFL QB's. And yes, I do agree that there's amazing QB's that were drafted outside the top 10. And I also agree that it's super hard to project which ones will pan out. We don't have to trade up, but we do have to draft one. So it just seems to me that in a year that we're within reach of one of the 'top' guys in a draft that's deemed to be a strong QB class we can't be afraid to go up and get 'our guy' if need be. We, hopefully, won't find ourselves in this position again for a long time. So let's take advantage of it and get 'our guy' whoever that may be. I've just heard to many people on here and various podcasts that are dead set against trading up and I just don't agree on that logic.

Let's get "our guy" at pick 11. I like that way more than giving an NFL opponent several of our first round picks.

[Dakotavike]

I believe Mahomes was drafted at No. 10. And without putting too much thought or research into it Josh Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Kyler Murray, Tua, Lawrence, Stafford, Goff, Stroud were all top 10 picks. And while not all those guys are game changing they're all solid to great NFL QB's. And yes, I do agree that there's amazing QB's that were drafted outside the top 10. And I also agree that it's super hard to project which ones will pan out. We don't have to trade up, but we do have to draft one. So it just seems to me that in a year that we're within reach of one of the 'top' guys in a draft that's deemed to be a strong QB class we can't be afraid to go up and get 'our guy' if need be. We, hopefully, won't find ourselves in this position again for a long time. So let's take advantage of it and get 'our guy' whoever that may be. I've just heard to many people on here and various podcasts that are dead set against trading up and I just don't agree on that logic.

Let's get "our guy" at pick 11. I like that way more than giving an NFL opponent several of our first round picks.

If only life were that simple. And that's exactly the mindset I don't get. Do you really think KAM and KOC have these guys all ranked the same? OF COURSE NOT!!! Otherwise sure, just take whoever falls to us. But we all know that one of these QB's is the one they want above all others. If the guy KOC really wants is Penix or Nix, then yeah, of course we can probably wait til 11. That would be great! Get our guy and keep both 1st rounders. I'm ecstatic with that!!! But my point is that if KOC's preferred target is Maye or JJ and we have to move up to 3 or 4 to get him then just do it. We don't get this opportunity very often so take a swing and go get your guy. We can't be so dang afraid to move up if need be!!!

[VikingLord]

I've just heard to many people on here and various podcasts that are dead set against trading up and I just don't agree on that logic.

I'm not dead set against a trade up, but I don't think there is much to support that move this year given the nature of the draft class at QB.

Hope isn't a strategy, so if they're making a move up it has to be based on more than just a hope that they just didn't convince themselves they found the right guy. I mean, just look on this board at all the opinions. Some people are dead set that player A is that guy while others wouldn't touch the same guy with a ten foot pole for some reason or another. One professional evaluator says guy A is a top prospect while a different evaluator ranks him much lower. They're all watching the same tape, have access to the same info for the most part, and yet reach wildly different conclusions.

So I'd be hard-pressed to understand how KAM and KOC arrived at the conclusion that a certain QB is "their guy" over the other options available, but at the same time if they did somehow manage to do that then yeah, make it happen. I'm just not confident in either of them being able to do that with any more certainty than others.

I mean, even with the QBs you listed, how many others were taken high that didn't make that list?

It's incredibly difficult to evaluate. Someone in KAM's position should understand that better than anyone and proceed accordingly.

[VikingLord]

I am not sure I agree with you on some of what you’re saying. I like Penix a lot. But to say he had a crappy Oline and suspect receivers is very questionable. His oline was one of the best in the nation. They won the Joe Moore award in 2024 for the best offensive line in the country. Link below for proof:

https://247sports.com/college/washingto ... 13806/amp/

And his #1 reciever was Odunze. Who is likely a top 10 pick in this draft. Maybe a top 5. He might be the best WR in the draft. Ja’lynn Polk is projected to be a 3rd rounder and so is Jalen McMillan. Both looked at highly by anyalists and scouts.

Penix was the leader of that offense no question. But he had a supporting cast. That’s the point I am trying to make. He didn’t make all those guys elite prospects like you are claiming. There are some great articles out there about Penix and how Michigan made him look pedestrian. This is what NFL defenses do. The get QBs off there spots with pressure! When that happens to Penix’s his production drops way off. It didn’t happen a lot at UW.

I am not against drafting Penix, but he wouldn’t be a top target at 11 or higher for me.

Interesting. I posted a link to that Kurt Warner review of Penix earlier in the thread and Warner seemed to imply that Penix didn't have the greatest protection from his OL during the season. In the game clips he analyzed there was very often quick pressure on Penix, and I know Michigan put a lot of heat on him too in the championship game. So maybe I went too far in assuming his line wasn't good.

Odunze is definitely a top receiver prospect. But referring back to the Warner analysis, Kurt seemed to imply he didn't have as much receiving talent as he had at least the prior year.

I think its safe to say that evaluating these guys is pretty tricky, including Penix. I still think he has rare release speed and power to go along with it, but he has to find himself in the right situation and get the right coaching (and be willing to take the coaching and fix certain things). I'd be pretty happy with either Penix or Nix at 11.

[Dakotavike]

I've just heard to many people on here and various podcasts that are dead set against trading up and I just don't agree on that logic.

I'm not dead set against a trade up, but I don't think there is much to support that move this year given the nature of the draft class at QB.

Hope isn't a strategy, so if they're making a move up it has to be based on more than just a hope that they just didn't convince themselves they found the right guy. I mean, just look on this board at all the opinions. Some people are dead set that player A is that guy while others wouldn't touch the same guy with a ten foot pole for some reason or another. One professional evaluator says guy A is a top prospect while a different evaluator ranks him much lower. They're all watching the same tape, have access to the same info for the most part, and yet reach wildly different conclusions.

So I'd be hard-pressed to understand how KAM and KOC arrived at the conclusion that a certain QB is "their guy" over the other options available, but at the same time if they did somehow manage to do that then yeah, make it happen. I'm just not confident in either of them being able to do that with any more certainty than others.

I mean, even with the QBs you listed, how many were taken high that didn't make that list?

It's incredibly difficult to evaluate. Someone in KAM's position should understand that better than anyone and proceed accordingly.

Ok, I'm with you on all of this. TBH, I don't put much stock into how any of us evaluate these guys. That's not a knock on all of you. Because as I mentioned, I know that you all know WAY more about football than I ever will. But us fans just don't have access to all the medicals, the interviews, how they did drawing up plays on the board etc. And I agree that there does seem to be a lot of varying opinions even among the experts on these top QB's. Happens every year but maybe moreso this year than most. I guess my whole argument is on the assumption that KOC and McCown (not KAM) are good at evaluating QB's and have a guy they think fits their system with flaws they deem fixable. This is the first time KOC (a supposed QB whisperer) has been able to hand pick his QB and I just want KAM to do that for him. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. But in my opinion KAM needs to give him the opportunity.

[VikingsVictorious]

Let's get "our guy" at pick 11. I like that way more than giving an NFL opponent several of our first round picks.

If only life were that simple. And that's exactly the mindset I don't get. Do you really think KAM and KOC have these guys all ranked the same? OF COURSE NOT!!! Otherwise sure, just take whoever falls to us. But we all know that one of these QB's is the one they want above all others. If the guy KOC really wants is Penix or Nix, then yeah, of course we can probably wait til 11. That would be great! Get our guy and keep both 1st rounders. I'm ecstatic with that!!! But my point is that if KOC's preferred target is Maye or JJ and we have to move up to 3 or 4 to get him then just do it. We don't get this opportunity very often so take a swing and go get your guy. We can't be so dang afraid to move up if need be!!!

My best guess is "our guy" is Caleb Williams. Do you want us to do whatever it takes to get him? I'm sure we have QBs ranked from 1 to 10. I'm guessing the grades from 2-6 range from A- to B+. Is getting our A-QB worth giving our opponent several first round picks. Not IMO. It is also possible our A- QB will be available at 11 anyway and if we trade up we missed that Golden opportunity. Pick 11 is taking a very big swing at the QB position. I have no fear of moving up. I have the courage to stick and pick.

[BeforeIDie]

Isn't a team using it's first pick in the draft taking a swing?

But IMO if you are going to take a swing then put your best swing on it. I think that's what Dakota is saying and I agree. In any draft every pick is a swing but we all have to admit the 1st pick is the best swing. We all saw that with our GMs 1st draft. In his original slot the best player was available for him at the position of need. He ignored that and went down and grabbed the 3rd safety selected. QB is the more prominent position. You miss that and the show is over for at least 4 years and in reality much longer because the cycle will be repeated. The Atlantic had an article that points this out.
https://theathletic.com/5256546/2024/02 ... ncy-draft/
Thirteen of the 67 quarterbacks who will have started a Super Bowl by Sunday were the top picks in their respective drafts. That includes 11 No. 1 selections in the standard NFL draft, a No. 1 pick in the 1965 AFL Draft (Joe Namath) and the top choice in the NFL’s supplemental draft in 1984 (Steve Young). That’s a staggering 19.4 percent of starting Super Bowl quarterbacks who were taken at the top of the draft.
I do think Penix will be the pick because it's the easiest and more ready to be a starter. In my mind I want nothing to do with him. He gets hit for that terrible championship game performance but he deserves it. Mr Happy feet. Harbough said before the Champ game Penix has the "IT FACTOR" That's a bunch of blabber. The IT factor is nothing but a talking point to avoid the question asked.
He couldn't say we are coming at him and he will eventually get happy feet because he will start seeing ghost rushers.

I’m new to this message board. But from what I’ve seen, you and I agree on some things. We’re not the biggest fans of Kwesi. And Cousins should’ve been extended years ago for cheaper, with the future high level draft pick rook marinating behind him. Cousins was a top 5 pure passer and decision maker, top 10 overall QB.

But I disagree with you on Penix. Harbaugh also said that Mcarthy was the best QB in this draft blah blah blah. All I’ve heard and seen on Mcarthy from analysts is that “in his LIMITED opportunities, he’s shined”. If he was the best QB in college football, he would’ve had more than “limited” opportunities. So Harbaugh is clearly BS’ing on Mcarthy as well.

I think the Alaskan gentleman credited Penix’s success largely to his supporting cast. Was Mcarthy’s supporting cast (coach included) better than Penix’s? YUP. So I can’t imagine the Alaskan bro being too big a Mcarthy fan.

What I haven’t seen mentioned regarding Kwesi and KOC’s pick… is job security. Who lasts longer, the GM that trades Jefferson and 3 FRP’s to get up to number 1 and draft sweet Caleb… or the GM that sits and picks Penix at 11? The answer is obviously who has more success. But that can’t be predicted. What is known is the currency that is the National PERCEPTION. If you gamble on what is widely considered to be a sure thing in sweet Caleb, and lose… then it’s just understandable bad luck. If you gamble on what is widely considered a second round pick (Penix) at number 11, and lose… you’re fired. So there is a portion of the decision making that comes down to “what worst case scenario buy’s me more time and money?”

[CharVike]

If only life were that simple. And that's exactly the mindset I don't get. Do you really think KAM and KOC have these guys all ranked the same? OF COURSE NOT!!! Otherwise sure, just take whoever falls to us. But we all know that one of these QB's is the one they want above all others. If the guy KOC really wants is Penix or Nix, then yeah, of course we can probably wait til 11. That would be great! Get our guy and keep both 1st rounders. I'm ecstatic with that!!! But my point is that if KOC's preferred target is Maye or JJ and we have to move up to 3 or 4 to get him then just do it. We don't get this opportunity very often so take a swing and go get your guy. We can't be so dang afraid to move up if need be!!!

My best guess is "our guy" is Caleb Williams. Do you want us to do whatever it takes to get him? I'm sure we have QBs ranked from 1 to 10. I'm guessing the grades from 2-6 range from A- to B+. Is getting our A-QB worth giving our opponent several first round picks. Not IMO. It is also possible our A- QB will be available at 11 anyway and if we trade up we missed that Golden opportunity. Pick 11 is taking a very big swing at the QB position. I have no fear of moving up. I have the courage to stick and pick.

That's not a guess it's a given. He's been the top ranked guy for 2 seasons. But I do know Caleb was running his mouth saying I will only play for these teams. Talking about money. That has stopped because his agent and advisors told him to cool it or you will cost yourself some spots in the draft. That means we all lose money. Maye has been No 2 for 2 seasons. His 3rd year was a drop from his 2nd but he didn't fall off the table. Jayden is the wild card. He went from a day 3 pick all the way up to 2 or 3 and some say 1. His stats year 5 are through the roof. He can do everything at the highest level. He's Lamar. But Jayden is a skinny player. Lamar is thick. That's a huge advantage for Lamar and his style of play. The question for Jayden is what happen those other 4 seasons and what skeme does he fit. The rest are far below these 3. Basically round 2 on down. We don't have a 2nd or a 3rd so we will need to reach at 11 or 23. If we can't move up wait till round 4. Or trade down from 11 to get a 2nd and late 1st. Then make a pick in the 2nd. Kwesi did say the additional 1st rounder didn't mean a trade up. What is he going to say? He also said there are several guys they love. Weird way of saying it but he had to say something.

[makila]

It's his dad who runs the mouth for CW. Yes that's first hand from his time at OU. His dad is an issue somewhat, at least collegiality.

[cmoss84]

I still get the feeling we trade jj to chargers at #5. Then, if needed, trade up from there. Makes too much sense for both teams.