Vikings Message Board.Com

Husker Vike wrote:Good write up as usual PHP, I don't think that there is any chance drafting at # 30 spot that Price or Payne will be there,do you think Rick will be willing to trade up if need be?

For sure. When you have a deeper team like we do, it's easier to trade up to get better players. Spielman always did a lot of trading down in later rounds to provide depth on the roster. He can easily do that again if he wants to trade up in the first.

fiestavike wrote:The Vikings now have two WRs who can get open 1 on 1 and make contested catches. If they can complete a Cowboys/Titans like OL reconstruction (two new interior starters), add a big back to compliment Cook, and a TE with enough athleticism to create a mismatch with linebackers, merely competent QB play should be enough to keep them very competitive. A vet like Brees or Cousins would set the world on fire with that formula. A mobile QB could also be an interesting fit, and open up holes in the run game for the RBs.

I dont see the need for another RB when we still have Murray under contract. He had a pretty solid year for us and can carry a load when needed. No chance we land Brees or Cousins IMO

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

PurpleKoolaid wrote:As long as Rick doesnt make any more horrible trades like the one for Bradford, we should be able to recover through drafting. We just cant sell the Vikings out again, for a QB like Favre or Bradford. I'm not sure anymore if Case is the answer, but spending a huge amount on Smith, Brees, Manning, whatever, isnt the answer. I dont know what is because this team cant find a QB to play for 5 years or more. Whether its bad luck or scouting, our QBs have been sub par or cursed.

Well in 2016 someone needed to be our QB. It was either Hill or Bradford. I take throwing a first away and getting Bradford any day over letting our team rot and hope Hill can win some games. Either way, I dont think the trade effected us much anyways. We were able to land Cook and Elflein with our first two picks anyways. Would a first help? Sure but it's not like we had a bad draft because of that trade

We are also losing a 4th at the very least this year.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

fiestavike wrote:The Vikings now have two WRs who can get open 1 on 1 and make contested catches. If they can complete a Cowboys/Titans like OL reconstruction (two new interior starters), add a big back to compliment Cook, and a TE with enough athleticism to create a mismatch with linebackers, merely competent QB play should be enough to keep them very competitive. A vet like Brees or Cousins would set the world on fire with that formula. A mobile QB could also be an interesting fit, and open up holes in the run game for the RBs.

I dont see the need for another RB when we still have Murray under contract. He had a pretty solid year for us and can carry a load when needed. No chance we land Brees or Cousins IMO

Murray just isn't very good. Plus the vikings need a bigger back who can make a bit of hay after contact.

*edit: by 'bigger' I mean a power back. despite his size, Murray is an upright runner who doesn't break many tackles or have much drive.

fiestavike wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

fiestavike wrote:The Vikings now have two WRs who can get open 1 on 1 and make contested catches. If they can complete a Cowboys/Titans like OL reconstruction (two new interior starters), add a big back to compliment Cook, and a TE with enough athleticism to create a mismatch with linebackers, merely competent QB play should be enough to keep them very competitive. A vet like Brees or Cousins would set the world on fire with that formula. A mobile QB could also be an interesting fit, and open up holes in the run game for the RBs.

I dont see the need for another RB when we still have Murray under contract. He had a pretty solid year for us and can carry a load when needed. No chance we land Brees or Cousins IMO

Murray just isn't very good. Plus the vikings need a bigger back who can make a bit of hay after contact.

*edit: by 'bigger' I mean a power back. despite his size, Murray is an upright runner who doesn't break many tackles or have much drive.

I dont get why people are saying this. "Murray just isnt very good"? He had 842 yards and 8 tds in 12 games practically. If Cook wasnt here and he started those first 4 games he would've been over 1000 yards and probably double digit TDs. Thats considered "not very good" now??

PurpleKoolaid wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

PurpleKoolaid wrote:As long as Rick doesnt make any more horrible trades like the one for Bradford, we should be able to recover through drafting. We just cant sell the Vikings out again, for a QB like Favre or Bradford. I'm not sure anymore if Case is the answer, but spending a huge amount on Smith, Brees, Manning, whatever, isnt the answer. I dont know what is because this team cant find a QB to play for 5 years or more. Whether its bad luck or scouting, our QBs have been sub par or cursed.

Well in 2016 someone needed to be our QB. It was either Hill or Bradford. I take throwing a first away and getting Bradford any day over letting our team rot and hope Hill can win some games. Either way, I dont think the trade effected us much anyways. We were able to land Cook and Elflein with our first two picks anyways. Would a first help? Sure but it's not like we had a bad draft because of that trade

We are also losing a 4th at the very least this year.

Ok? In what way is it going to be MORE than a 4th? Its a 4th as far as I know. And still, I'd rather not let our team rot for a year for a first and a 4th.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I dont get why people are saying this. "Murray just isnt very good"? He had 842 yards and 8 tds in 12 games practically. If Cook wasnt here and he started those first 4 games he would've been over 1000 yards and probably double digit TDs. Thats considered "not very good" now??

I think there is a fundamental distinction between fans who measure player performance by stats, and fans who measure player performance by performance, and I have come to the conclussion that it is an unbridgable gap.

fiestavike wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I dont get why people are saying this. "Murray just isnt very good"? He had 842 yards and 8 tds in 12 games practically. If Cook wasnt here and he started those first 4 games he would've been over 1000 yards and probably double digit TDs. Thats considered "not very good" now??

I think there is a fundamental distinction between fans who measure player performance by stats, and fans who measure player performance by performance, and I have come to the conclussion that it is an unbridgable gap.

I'm not measuring just by stats. But either way, if you're going over 1000 and scoring double digit tds I dont care who you are, thats a good year in the NFL. If he "wasnt very good" he wouldnt have done what he did this year and lead one of the better rushing attacks in the NFL. He is probably hands down the top backup in the NFL when Cook comes back (outside of the Ingram/Kamara combo which is a little different). So why would he not be a good enough backup?? He could probably go and start for a handful of teams next year.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I dont see the need for another RB when we still have Murray under contract. He had a pretty solid year for us and can carry a load when needed. No chance we land Brees or Cousins IMO

You and I disagreed on Murray early in the season. I didn't see much in him. But I have to say, he showed me something throughout the year the more he recovered from ankle surgery. I do think he runs a bit upright for a big back, and he isn't much of a home-run threat. But he's a solid between-the-tackles runner who catches the ball out of the backfield and does a good job in protection. He's also a quality teammate and a solid veteran presence, from everything I've read. And his best quality might be how tough he is near the goal line, which makes our red-zone offense better. I'm fine with keeping him.

To me, there really isn't room for all three -- Cook, Murray and McKinnon. I'd keep Cook and Murray. I love Jet, but he's basically a smaller, less talented version of Cook. Murray and Cook have different running styles. They'd be a nice change-of-pace for each other.

As for Brees or Cousins, I'd agree with you on Brees. Let's see about Cousins. He'd be really expensive, but he could be a great fit for this team. He's got plenty of arm talent and lots of mobility. Also, the Vikings have a lot going for them. A head coach who is really gaining a solid reputation in the NFL. An amazing stadium. A brand-new team facility. A roster that is ready to win right now. Incredible as it may sound, the Minnesota Vikings may be one of the most attractive teams out there to free agents. It's a matter of whether the Vikings want to spend the money on him. But I believe if they went after him, he'd listen.

J. Kapp 11 wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I dont see the need for another RB when we still have Murray under contract. He had a pretty solid year for us and can carry a load when needed. No chance we land Brees or Cousins IMO

You and I disagreed on Murray early in the season. I didn't see much in him. But I have to say, he showed me something throughout the year the more he recovered from ankle surgery. I do think he runs a bit upright for a big back, and he isn't much of a home-run threat. But he's a solid between-the-tackles runner who catches the ball out of the backfield and does a good job in protection. He's also a quality teammate and a solid veteran presence, from everything I've read. And his best quality might be how tough he is near the goal line, which makes our red-zone offense better. I'm fine with keeping him.

To me, there really isn't room for all three -- Cook, Murray and McKinnon. I'd keep Cook and Murray. I love Jet, but he's basically a smaller, less talented version of Cook. Murray and Cook have different running styles. They'd be a nice change-of-pace for each other.

As for Brees or Cousins, I'd agree with you on Brees. Let's see about Cousins. He'd be really expensive, but he could be a great fit for this team. He's got plenty of arm talent and lots of mobility. Also, the Vikings have a lot going for them. A head coach who is really gaining a solid reputation in the NFL. An amazing stadium. A brand-new team facility. A roster that is ready to win right now. Incredible as it may sound, the Minnesota Vikings may be one of the most attractive teams out there to free agents. It's a matter of whether the Vikings want to spend the money on him. But I believe if they went after him, he'd listen.

I heard Latavius Murray could be a cut/restructure candidate. His contract was designed in a way to give the Vikings a choice to continue the relationship after 2018.
So it remains to be seen what the Vikings will do, or if we cut Murray would he re-sign?
Maybe with McKinnon leaving that would change things.

halfgiz wrote:

J. Kapp 11 wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I dont see the need for another RB when we still have Murray under contract. He had a pretty solid year for us and can carry a load when needed. No chance we land Brees or Cousins IMO

You and I disagreed on Murray early in the season. I didn't see much in him. But I have to say, he showed me something throughout the year the more he recovered from ankle surgery. I do think he runs a bit upright for a big back, and he isn't much of a home-run threat. But he's a solid between-the-tackles runner who catches the ball out of the backfield and does a good job in protection. He's also a quality teammate and a solid veteran presence, from everything I've read. And his best quality might be how tough he is near the goal line, which makes our red-zone offense better. I'm fine with keeping him.

To me, there really isn't room for all three -- Cook, Murray and McKinnon. I'd keep Cook and Murray. I love Jet, but he's basically a smaller, less talented version of Cook. Murray and Cook have different running styles. They'd be a nice change-of-pace for each other.

As for Brees or Cousins, I'd agree with you on Brees. Let's see about Cousins. He'd be really expensive, but he could be a great fit for this team. He's got plenty of arm talent and lots of mobility. Also, the Vikings have a lot going for them. A head coach who is really gaining a solid reputation in the NFL. An amazing stadium. A brand-new team facility. A roster that is ready to win right now. Incredible as it may sound, the Minnesota Vikings may be one of the most attractive teams out there to free agents. It's a matter of whether the Vikings want to spend the money on him. But I believe if they went after him, he'd listen.

I heard Latavius Murray could be a cut/restructure candidate. His contract was designed in a way to give the Vikings a choice to continue the relationship after 2018.
So it remains to be seen what the Vikings will do, or if we cut Murray would he re-sign?
Maybe with McKinnon leaving that would change things.

Only place I've heard about Murray as a cut candidate is on fan sites like this one. Not on any legitimate news outlet.

If I were Murray and the Vikings cut me, there's no way I'd re-sign. The guy ran for more than 800 yards in 12 games and scored 8 times. If I did that for a team and they asked me to take a pay cut, I'd walk. He's a solid player. He'd find a home.

I'd be very surprised (and disappointed) if Latavius Murray is not on the Vikings next year. McKinnon, on the other hand, wants to be a feature back. I'll be shocked if he's in purple next season.

Are Murray and Cook complimentary? They seem very similar to me.

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PurpleMustReign wrote:Are Murray and Cook complimentary? They seem very similar to me.

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Different style runners for sure

Cook and Murray are both versatile and agile, but that's kind of where the similarities end. Cook is better on the outside in space while Murray is a between-the-tackles back good for getting some tough yards, but they each can do both fairly well from what I've seen, and both got good hands for catching screen passes. Makes it nice for not telegraphing your plays when you have versatile backs like that.

As far as the offseason goes, I think we have a lot of the right pieces. I'm not sure what to make of the QB situation, there's a lot that Spielman is probably thinking about right now that could go into that discussion and I can't really even imagine what that's like. I'm currently leaning towards wanting them to bring back Keenum, although Teddy's an interesting option because he has been good for us in the past, the team's mostly in-tune with him and vice-versa, and he will most likely be cheap. He had a pretty gruesome knee injury though, and I'm not so sure that he's going to necessarily be the same if he were to resume his position as starting QB. I think Bradford is more than likely the one who's gone even if he is the most proven QB at the pro level - he's a big injury risk with that oft-injured knee, he was ineffective when he returned against the Bears, and he's going to be asking for big money most likely. Some have mentioned Brees or Cousins, I think both of those guys would cost way too much money to bring here and would inhibit our ability to sign players to fill other needs at positions like offensive guard and defensive tackle, as well as our ability to maybe extend someone like Anthony Barr who I would definitely want to see here for another 5 years or so.

What do you guys think? It's going to be an interesting offseason no matter what, but will it be an ultimately GOOD offseason?

As far as the qb's go I'm hoping that they all get to test the market and get a idea what these guys are worth. Questions arise how much interest any of them will garner.
Murray is good enough. Leroy Hoard 2.0. Need a guy like that. Especially that we don't really know what we'll have in Cook when he comes back. Hoping for the best for sure.
As far as the draft goes, I don't think Price would be available for us but if so, wow! Him and Elf together would be interesting to see who would end up at C. Need more push up front on both sides. That is what I try to finagle.
I'm just hoping we buck a trend and NOT draft a WR in the 1st round.