Cliff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 12:54 pm
I want him to be able to put significant resources into getting one of the QBs he wants and plugging them into an offense he has already put together himself.
I'd really like to see what KOC can do when he is actually able to get the pieces in place that he wants.
On what basis is he deciding what he wants, though?
Put another way, KAM passed on Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis in his first draft as GM of the Vikings. He evaluated the talent available to him at pick 12(?) that year wasn't more valuable than trading back to the end of the 1st round and swapping 2nds with the Lions. He then picked Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth.
There are SO many examples of QB evaluation gone horribly wrong in the 1st rounds of drafts. KAM doesn't have a record there yet, but caution is advised, especially when future draft picks are thrown into the mix.
Cliff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 12:54 pm
I want him to be able to put significant resources into getting one of the QBs he wants and plugging them into an offense he has already put together himself.
I'd really like to see what KOC can do when he is actually able to get the pieces in place that he wants.
On what basis is he deciding what he wants, though?
Put another way, KAM passed on Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis in his first draft as GM of the Vikings. He evaluated the talent available to him at pick 12(?) that year wasn't more valuable than trading back to the end of the 1st round and swapping 2nds with the Lions. He then picked Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth.
There are SO many examples of QB evaluation gone horribly wrong in the 1st rounds of drafts. KAM doesn't have a record there yet, but caution is advised, especially when future draft picks are thrown into the mix.
I don't know what KOC uses as criteria, I just know he has the final say when it comes to QBs. It's not about what KAM would do, it's been made pretty clear it's KOCs call.
On what basis is he deciding what he wants, though?
Put another way, KAM passed on Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis in his first draft as GM of the Vikings. He evaluated the talent available to him at pick 12(?) that year wasn't more valuable than trading back to the end of the 1st round and swapping 2nds with the Lions. He then picked Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth.
There are SO many examples of QB evaluation gone horribly wrong in the 1st rounds of drafts. KAM doesn't have a record there yet, but caution is advised, especially when future draft picks are thrown into the mix.
I don't know what KOC uses as criteria, I just know he has the final say when it comes to QBs. It's not about what KAM would do, it's been made pretty clear it's KOCs call.
I'm not sure that makes me feel any better...
KAM said the Vikings have been looking at this QB class for the last 2 years. I hope all that pays off tomorrow.
I don't know what KOC uses as criteria, I just know he has the final say when it comes to QBs. It's not about what KAM would do, it's been made pretty clear it's KOCs call.
I'm not sure that makes me feel any better...
KAM said the Vikings have been looking at this QB class for the last 2 years. I hope all that pays off tomorrow.
It's not about feeling any particular way, it's just that I want this coach to actually be able to completely put his stamp on this team. I don't want them to be a 9 or 10 win team that is pretty good but can't just make it over that hump. But "it's not really KOC's fault, things just didn't ever line up for QB, really it's all KAM's fault!". I want to know what KOC is like as a coach when things are done the way he wants and he's able to choose his QB and train him to run his offense; his supposed strength. Then over the next 2 years see what that looks like and if they should keep him.
It certainly makes sense to be looking at it, it's clearly got a lot of talent in it even if none of them pan out it's generally agreed the talent is there. I hope so too.
Bright side in all of this is that KAM is an analytics guy so he should well know all of this and hopefully that tempers whatever decisions he makes today.
My last thought comes not from the world of football or analytics, but from the movie "Dumb & Dumber" which I believe sums up this pre-draft process pretty well:
Supposedly Giants and Vikes looking to trade up for the No 3 pick for Maye. I know Daniel Jones or Danny Dimes whatever you like is under contract but the Giants still need to pay a pick and Maye can watch how not to play the position by seeing Jones in action for a season. Just don't let him watch old clips of him playing us. That even made me a firm believer in Danny. He looked all world but quickly fell back to earth. Even won a playoff game before getting destroyed. If Maye goes to the Giants just place the bust sticker on him. Hand that in along with the pick card. The Wilf's are Giant fans since birth so they might tell KAM bring Danny boy in for a shot and we will think more about our future plan to let you and KOC go after year 4. He just needs something around him. Once Jones gets cut after this season KAM can do another prove it contract. I guess 30 mil should do it. That's Mayfield money which is a former high pick prove it deal.
VikingLord wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:33 am
For stat geeks and others who enjoy putting it all into context I thought I'd share some interesting links:
Bright side in all of this is that KAM is an analytics guy so he should well know all of this and hopefully that tempers whatever decisions he makes today.
My last thought comes not from the world of football or analytics, but from the movie "Dumb & Dumber" which I believe sums up this pre-draft process pretty well:
I've got a University of Michigan Polo shirt that my wife mistakenly bought me thinking it was Minnesota. I'm going to be wearing it in anticipation of us drafting JJ McCarthy hopefully at 8 or later.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 1:11 pm
I've got a University of Michigan Polo shirt that my wife mistakenly bought me thinking it was Minnesota.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 1:11 pm
I've got a University of Michigan Polo shirt that my wife mistakenly bought me thinking it was Minnesota.
That is funny. Maybe it was some kind of premonition. Maybe she is more of an expert than the rest of us combined. She just told you in a soft manner. A poster would have been more straight forward like "you don't know anything. I'm not debating with you." Hopefully she's wearing a Super Bowl or HOF polo next. Then you know it's a golden pick.
Any later round prospects that anybody likes. IMO a couple Gs would be nice. Even a blocking C would help. I hope they try and fix that before they throw the rookie into the swamp.
Evaluating the draft a week later.
I honestly expected Kwesi to trade up into 4th or 5th using 11-23 and 2025 1st. All reports are he offered those assets for 3 but was asking for a couple of 3rd round picks coming back our way. Word is he didn't even offer on 4 and 5 calling the bluff of the NYGs. Did he give away a 4th and a 5th for 6th swap for no reason moving up for pick 10. Decent chance he did, but McCarthy was actually expecting to go 12 for a time there so maybe Denver really did want him. Too bad the Falcons didn't outbid us for the pick as they did offer. Regardless I have no problem with the trade up.
It was very interesting seeing that almost immediately after Murphy II was taken at 16 the trade up to 17 was announced. Did our Vikings love both Murphy and Turner and were waiting for one to go before trading up? I sure could see it that way. There were 3 highly rated Edge rushers Latu, Turner and Verse. Latu was the first defender drafted at pick 15 and Verse went with pick 21 IIRC. Turner according to about 90% of the mocks was the best defender in the draft. I could easily see him being #5 on our draft board and only due to our QB need and #1 for the defensive players. We gave up a lot to move up 6 spots. It was reported that Jacksonville initiated the trade for pick 17. They called us we didn't call them. It cost us a 5th round pick this year and a 3rd and 4th round pick next year.
We could have stayed at 23 and got a pretty excellent CB in Arnold, the 2nd best DT in Jerz'hon (Johnny) Newton, Jackson Powers-Johnson for Center or guard, without giving up those picks. That indicates how strongly we felt about Turner. I think we made the right choice. Now we have to rotate Turner with Greenard and Van Ginkel unless Flores figures out ways to play them at the same time.
Due to the trade ups we were now down to 1 4th, our 2 5th round picks were gone, and we had 2 6ths and 2 7ths. at pick 108 we selected Khyree Jackson who had a very checkered football past, but huge potential at Just under 6'4" and a RAS of 7.86. A very commonly mocked to us player Cam Hart went a full round later and DT Brandon Dorlus who many had going to us went one pick later.
In the 6th we selected Walter Rouse OT from Oklahoma and followed him up with the first Kicker off the board Will Reichard from Alabama. This started a run of Kickers with 2 more going in the next 9 selections. In the 7th we wrapped up our draft with 2 positions of need. Center Michael Jurgens out of Wake Forest and we finally got Drake with our last pick instead of our first taking Levi Drake Rodrigues a DT out of Texas A&M Commerce.
We signed 17 UDFAs including the best of all of them according to just about everybody, Gabriel Murphy an Edge rusher out of UCLA. Also noteworthy is CB McGlothern. We signed 3 WRs, but no RB was drafted or signed UDFA. That's the whole draft weekend in a nutshell.
