2024 NFL Draft

[VikingsVictorious]

I’ve been hooked on the generated mock drafts the past few days where you get to play GM. I just scored…

Odunze (I feel he’ll be the best WR in the draft depending on his QB)

Coop DeJean

Penix

Sweat

Fiske

But… it took trading all our picks this year, AND next year.

Thoughts?

I hate it. I can normally get something close to that while adding a first and a 2nd round pick to next year.

[Alaskan]

How has KAM addressed that though? He extended Cousins again and has made some pretty questionable moves both in the draft and in free agency thus far. By all accounts KOC and he wanted to keep Cousins around longer, too, only they weren't willing to hand him another huge guaranteed deal for 4 years - just 2 more years.

I'm not a fan of what KAM has done thus far. His first draft in particular was awful near the top both in the moves he made (getting relatively little for a big move down in the 1st) and then getting players with those picks that have contributed relatively little to an area of the team that continues to be a big issue.

And then the situation he finds himself in this offseason now with no Cousins and no real plan behind Cousins. That was actually an issue that first reared it's ugly head after Cousins went down with injury last year, but now it is just magnified. KAM never committed to Cousins and maybe Cousins never made that possible, but if a GM is playing "rent-a-QB" on a year-to-year basis it would have made sense to try to find his longer-term replacement in an earlier draft, via trade, or even in free agency before finding himself in the spot he currently finds himself. Unless they thought Jaren Hall could be that guy, which I highly doubt given where they drafted him.

So here KAM sits now. He has positioned himself to make a move if he feels he needs to make a move. The big problem is, he doesn't enjoy a spot in the 1st round that is great. It's not terrible, but with the 1st 3 teams in the draft all needing QBs and all very unlikely to be willing to trade down, he's not going to get his pick of the guys coming out and will instead be forced to make an eventful call on draft day - does he spend a ton of draft capital to move up a few slots to take a swing at one of the other hyped QBs coming out, or does he sit pat and let fate decide what options he has? His decision could take the team in radically different directions in the near future as well as his own career as a GM. Literally everyone doing mocks sees KAM being desperate, sees the move to get the 23rd pick in the 1st round as KAM loading up to make a move up, and JJ McCarthy seems to be the QB du jour on the opposite end of that move.

Is KAM about to teach a master class in deception? Could he know who he's taking and where and is instead going to use one of his first two picks to further bolster the team with a player at a different position he could not otherwise get sitting pat in the 2nd round? Or is KAM going to prove that despite his lofty perch, advanced analytics available to him, and all he has on the line that in many respects he's no better at assessing talent or more gifted anaytically than pretty much everyone who posts on this board? It's a monkey-see, monkey-do league. Players get way over-hyped in every draft, *especially* at the QB position. Does this Vikings leadership team possess any real skill at evaluating top talent, at QB or, for that matter, at any other position?

This draft is going to tell us a lot about the guys driving the longship right now. Are they likely to discover new frontiers to conquer, or more likely to get lost in thick sea fog?

Great post. I'm not a fan of what Kam has done so far as a GM. He seems better suited to be a capologist than a football evaluator. His first draft was atrocious and if you look at the roster most of the good players were acquired by Spielman. This is undoubtedly the make or break off-season for this regime. Hit on a QB and all is well. Horrific trade down moves and the early selection of a safety who has one tackle in 3 years will be somewhat forgiven. A whiff on the QB and, even worse, a costly move up to draft him will result in a clean house 2 years down the road.

I disagree with you both. You almost make my argument for me with your posts. Draft picks, what are they really worth? Look up some analytics on draft bust rates of 1st and 2nd round picks. Might open some eyes. Without a young QB to build around, they have near zero chance to compete. Period. Those picks mean near nothing without a QB. Cousins wasn’t the answer at 50 million a year gaurenteed!! He just didn’t provide that kind of value for that kind of money. I am not sure what you expect a guy to do walking into a mild dumpster fire. I agree, he should have parted ways with Cousins instead of extending him, but I am guessing there is more to that story we arent privy too. We can agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to commit to quality back and forth dialogue. I see things quite differently than most, i understand that. Please keep sharing.

[CharVike]

Great post. I'm not a fan of what Kam has done so far as a GM. He seems better suited to be a capologist than a football evaluator. His first draft was atrocious and if you look at the roster most of the good players were acquired by Spielman. This is undoubtedly the make or break off-season for this regime. Hit on a QB and all is well. Horrific trade down moves and the early selection of a safety who has one tackle in 3 years will be somewhat forgiven. A whiff on the QB and, even worse, a costly move up to draft him will result in a clean house 2 years down the road.

I disagree with you both. You almost make my argument for me with your posts. Draft picks, what are they really worth? Look up some analytics on draft bust rates of 1st and 2nd round picks. Might open some eyes. Without a young QB to build around, they have near zero chance to compete. Period. Those picks mean near nothing without a QB. Cousins wasn’t the answer at 50 million a year gaurenteed!! He just didn’t provide that kind of value for that kind of money. I am not sure what you expect a guy to do walking into a mild dumpster fire. I agree, he should have parted ways with Cousins instead of extending him, but I am guessing there is more to that story we arent privy too. We can agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to commit to quality back and forth dialogue. I see things quite differently than most, i understand that. Please keep sharing.

Draft picks are worth nothing when you can't evaluate players. His 1st draft he passed on Hamilton, an all pro, traded down to the bottom for a safety who can't play. Every team that is good draft wells. That is how you build/replenish the team. With Cousins we beat the 49ers with our junk core team and we played the Chiefs right to the end. They were great games and fun to watch. Without him there were games we couldn't score. The Bear night game and that Raider game were embarrassments. Can't watch that stuff. With him we made the playoffs with the worst defense we ever put on the field. Our defense was horrible because we can't draft well. The bust rate is high and always has been. That has nothing to do with evaluating players.

[Maelstrom88]

Great post. I'm not a fan of what Kam has done so far as a GM. He seems better suited to be a capologist than a football evaluator. His first draft was atrocious and if you look at the roster most of the good players were acquired by Spielman. This is undoubtedly the make or break off-season for this regime. Hit on a QB and all is well. Horrific trade down moves and the early selection of a safety who has one tackle in 3 years will be somewhat forgiven. A whiff on the QB and, even worse, a costly move up to draft him will result in a clean house 2 years down the road.

I disagree with you both. You almost make my argument for me with your posts. Draft picks, what are they really worth? Look up some analytics on draft bust rates of 1st and 2nd round picks. Might open some eyes. Without a young QB to build around, they have near zero chance to compete. Period. Those picks mean near nothing without a QB. Cousins wasn’t the answer at 50 million a year gaurenteed!! He just didn’t provide that kind of value for that kind of money. I am not sure what you expect a guy to do walking into a mild dumpster fire. I agree, he should have parted ways with Cousins instead of extending him, but I am guessing there is more to that story we arent privy too. We can agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to commit to quality back and forth dialogue. I see things quite differently than most, i understand that. Please keep sharing.

I agree that you must get a great QB to win on today's league. I just don't think JJ McCarthy is that guy. I also think you can let the draft play out every year and have a guy as talented or moreso than JJ fall into your lap. You can be proactive and draft a QB in the top 4 rounds every couple of years to see if a guy can develop into a surprisingly good QB. Waiting until you're desperate isn't the solution. Yet that's what the Vikings have done so at this point all you can do is hope they pick the right guy after likely trading the farm to get him.

[Cliff]

I disagree with you both. You almost make my argument for me with your posts. Draft picks, what are they really worth? Look up some analytics on draft bust rates of 1st and 2nd round picks. Might open some eyes. Without a young QB to build around, they have near zero chance to compete. Period. Those picks mean near nothing without a QB. Cousins wasn’t the answer at 50 million a year gaurenteed!! He just didn’t provide that kind of value for that kind of money. I am not sure what you expect a guy to do walking into a mild dumpster fire. I agree, he should have parted ways with Cousins instead of extending him, but I am guessing there is more to that story we arent privy too. We can agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to commit to quality back and forth dialogue. I see things quite differently than most, i understand that. Please keep sharing.

Draft picks are worth nothing when you can't evaluate players. His 1st draft he passed on Hamilton, an all pro, traded down to the bottom for a safety who can't play. Every team that is good draft wells. That is how you build/replenish the team. With Cousins we beat the 49ers with our junk core team and we played the Chiefs right to the end. They were great games and fun to watch. Without him there were games we couldn't score. The Bear night game and that Raider game were embarrassments. Can't watch that stuff. With him we made the playoffs with the worst defense we ever put on the field. Our defense was horrible because we can't draft well. The bust rate is high and always has been. That has nothing to do with evaluating players.

With the top two picks of his first draft being defense, and him being new, I wonder how much of his decision making was influenced by Ed Donatell who in hindsight might not have been extremely helpful.

I think KAM is probably going to be better suited to free agency. Or at least the whole statistics thing should work better there. All of the data is all NFL players against each other. Apples to apples. College ball is all over the place in terms of competition, coaching, scheme, player attitude, etc. Statistically accounting for all of those variables isn't a real option. I think that's why draft picks are still so much of a gamble. Anybody claiming they know how a given college prospect is actually going to turn out in the NFL is wrong. I don't know of a single analyst that is very much better than 50% accurate.

[CharVike]

CBS has us drafting Ruke Orhorhoro DL 6'4" / 290 effective gap-plugger -- and potential difference-maker -- at any spot along Brian Flores' 3-4 line. G Dominick Puni in round 4. Has a stout, powerful frame at 6-foot-4, 334 pounds, yet carries his weight very well. He has experience at both (left) guard and tackle. In round 5 C Beaux Limmer and WR Ainias Smith WR to take Osborn place and have a better catch rate hopefully.
I'd take this draft. You won't see Puni pushed into the backfield. He'll do the pushing.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/viki ... for-ol-dl/

[CharVike]

Draft picks are worth nothing when you can't evaluate players. His 1st draft he passed on Hamilton, an all pro, traded down to the bottom for a safety who can't play. Every team that is good draft wells. That is how you build/replenish the team. With Cousins we beat the 49ers with our junk core team and we played the Chiefs right to the end. They were great games and fun to watch. Without him there were games we couldn't score. The Bear night game and that Raider game were embarrassments. Can't watch that stuff. With him we made the playoffs with the worst defense we ever put on the field. Our defense was horrible because we can't draft well. The bust rate is high and always has been. That has nothing to do with evaluating players.

With the top two picks of his first draft being defense, and him being new, I wonder how much of his decision making was influenced by Ed Donatell who in hindsight might not have been extremely helpful.

I think KAM is probably going to be better suited to free agency. Or at least the whole statistics thing should work better there. All of the data is all NFL players against each other. Apples to apples. College ball is all over the place in terms of competition, coaching, scheme, player attitude, etc. Statistically accounting for all of those variables isn't a real option. I think that's why draft picks are still so much of a gamble. Anybody claiming they know how a given college prospect is actually going to turn out in the NFL is wrong. I don't know of a single analyst that is very much better than 50% accurate.

No team or GM hits in the draft or FA year in and year out. The draft is a crap shoot. Always has been. But I do believe there are ways to improve your shot. Having pick 1 in the draft versus pick 32 can't be compared. The year Trevor L was picked he was going No 1 not No 32. KAM put us in a way worse position than when we started draft 1. He also needed to get a following year pick and didn't. That has nothing to do with being new to the job. He signed that Davenport to a prove it deal for 13 million. I never heard a number like that on a prove it contract. I'll give him credit for getting something for Ezra before he left for nothing. CB Murphy was a good signing.

[CharVike]

I disagree with you both. You almost make my argument for me with your posts. Draft picks, what are they really worth? Look up some analytics on draft bust rates of 1st and 2nd round picks. Might open some eyes. Without a young QB to build around, they have near zero chance to compete. Period. Those picks mean near nothing without a QB. Cousins wasn’t the answer at 50 million a year gaurenteed!! He just didn’t provide that kind of value for that kind of money. I am not sure what you expect a guy to do walking into a mild dumpster fire. I agree, he should have parted ways with Cousins instead of extending him, but I am guessing there is more to that story we arent privy too. We can agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to commit to quality back and forth dialogue. I see things quite differently than most, i understand that. Please keep sharing.

I agree that you must get a great QB to win on today's league. I just don't think JJ McCarthy is that guy. I also think you can let the draft play out every year and have a guy as talented or moreso than JJ fall into your lap. You can be proactive and draft a QB in the top 4 rounds every couple of years to see if a guy can develop into a surprisingly good QB. Waiting until you're desperate isn't the solution. Yet that's what the Vikings have done so at this point all you can do is hope they pick the right guy after likely trading the farm to get him.

Thing is most can't agree on what is a great QB, Good QB ect... I don't think Lamar is a great QB yet they make the playoffs year after year ever since he stepped in. Lost a home champ game. His D only gave up 17. If Kirk did that the media would kill him. Even Purdy I wouldn't call great. When he played against us he was up and down. Basically gave it to us at the end. Even the guy for the Eagles I don't know if I would call him great. Once his D could no longer play great they couldn't beat anybody. Wentz/Foles won a SB. They both suck. Dak for the Cowboys? He puts up monster numbers but things seem to fall apart once in the playoffs. Stafford was always called the biggest loser outside of Kirk. He won a SB. We played him twice a year for a long time. I sat back because I knew he would turn it over eventually. Great teams can make a QB look great. It never works the other way. I'll admit Mahomes is off the charts. I'll call him great. But that team isn't a hunk of junk either. That are well rounded with talent at all levels and are coached well. Plus they draft great. That 2021 draft has set them up for a few years until their contracts end. If JJM is picked by the Pats call him a bust right now. That will end his career before it starts.

[Tommy TarkenKapp]

I agree that you must get a great QB to win on today's league. I just don't think JJ McCarthy is that guy. I also think you can let the draft play out every year and have a guy as talented or moreso than JJ fall into your lap. You can be proactive and draft a QB in the top 4 rounds every couple of years to see if a guy can develop into a surprisingly good QB. Waiting until you're desperate isn't the solution. Yet that's what the Vikings have done so at this point all you can do is hope they pick the right guy after likely trading the farm to get him.

Thing is most can't agree on what is a great QB, Good QB ect... I don't think Lamar is a great QB yet they make the playoffs year after year ever since he stepped in. Lost a home champ game. His D only gave up 17. If Kirk did that the media would kill him. Even Purdy I wouldn't call great. When he played against us he was up and down. Basically gave it to us at the end. Even the guy for the Eagles I don't know if I would call him great. Once his D could no longer play great they couldn't beat anybody. Wentz/Foles won a SB. They both suck. Dak for the Cowboys? He puts up monster numbers but things seem to fall apart once in the playoffs. Stafford was always called the biggest loser outside of Kirk. He won a SB. We played him twice a year for a long time. I sat back because I knew he would turn it over eventually. Great teams can make a QB look great. It never works the other way. I'll admit Mahomes is off the charts. I'll call him great. But that team isn't a hunk of junk either. That are well rounded with talent at all levels and are coached well. Plus they draft great. That 2021 draft has set them up for a few years until their contracts end. If JJM is picked buy the Pats call him a bust right now. That will end his career before it starts.

The media wasn't very kind to Lamar after that AFC Championship performance. And rightfully so. And if Kirk did that...Well, it's hard to say. They might still be stupefied that a Kirk Cousins' led offence actually won two straight playoff games to actually appear in a conference championship game and let it slide.

[CharVike]

Thing is most can't agree on what is a great QB, Good QB ect... I don't think Lamar is a great QB yet they make the playoffs year after year ever since he stepped in. Lost a home champ game. His D only gave up 17. If Kirk did that the media would kill him. Even Purdy I wouldn't call great. When he played against us he was up and down. Basically gave it to us at the end. Even the guy for the Eagles I don't know if I would call him great. Once his D could no longer play great they couldn't beat anybody. Wentz/Foles won a SB. They both suck. Dak for the Cowboys? He puts up monster numbers but things seem to fall apart once in the playoffs. Stafford was always called the biggest loser outside of Kirk. He won a SB. We played him twice a year for a long time. I sat back because I knew he would turn it over eventually. Great teams can make a QB look great. It never works the other way. I'll admit Mahomes is off the charts. I'll call him great. But that team isn't a hunk of junk either. That are well rounded with talent at all levels and are coached well. Plus they draft great. That 2021 draft has set them up for a few years until their contracts end. If JJM is picked buy the Pats call him a bust right now. That will end his career before it starts.

The media wasn't very kind to Lamar after that AFC Championship performance. And rightfully so. And if Kirk did that...Well, it's hard to say. They might still be stupefied that a Kirk Cousins' led offence actually won two straight playoff games to actually appear in a conference championship game and let it slide.

Your right with being stupefied. They would let it slide. I know the check down to Hock didn't slide away. That will be his signature play for us. I'll keep it more positive and remember the long 4th down strike to JJ against the Bills.

[Tommy TarkenKapp]

The media wasn't very kind to Lamar after that AFC Championship performance. And rightfully so. And if Kirk did that...Well, it's hard to say. They might still be stupefied that a Kirk Cousins' led offence actually won two straight playoff games to actually appear in a conference championship game and let it slide.

Your right with being stupefied. They would let it slide. I know the check down to Hock didn't slide away. That will be his signature play for us. I'll keep it more positive and remember the long 4th down strike to JJ against the Bills.

Kirk was pretty damn good for us. Sometimes great. We never had a complete team during his tenure. We got Kirk two years too late. We needed him for 2016 & 2017. Zimmer's defense was at it's best then. The defensive rankings were still upper half in 2018 & 2019. But, the cracks were starting to show. Actually, that defense got exposed badly against Philly in that frickin' NFC Championship game. And Zims' defense never really did show up in most of the big games and/or against upper echelon QBs.

Regardless, it was time to move on from Kirk. We weren't going anywhere. The 2024 Falcons are in the same boat as the 2018 Vikings were. Just a good QB away. Will it be too late for them as well?

Also, I'm in the minority but I'm not certain that Sam Darnold can't be our QB of the future if we aren't able to move up in the draft for a QB without completely mortgaging the future. There's a whole lot of playmakers on the offense for him to work with. If we get that damn extension with Jefferson done. Addison will only be better. Hopefully, Hockenson's rehab is going well. This draft is deep at WR. So I expect a promising rookie there. And I really liked Powell when he was in there. Jones will be a good dual threat at RB. Chandler should get better. I'd like a better interior offensive line. But, it's been serviceable. This will be the best situation Darnold's been in during his NFL career. If he fails. It's on him.

[VikingsVictorious]

I was visiting a Denver Broncos podcast to see how they were feeling about trading up for a QB. When asked should we trade up 1 out of 13 responders said yes. 12 said no. They are smarter than Vikings fans IMO.

[CharVike]

Your right with being stupefied. They would let it slide. I know the check down to Hock didn't slide away. That will be his signature play for us. I'll keep it more positive and remember the long 4th down strike to JJ against the Bills.

Kirk was pretty damn good for us. Sometimes great. We never had a complete team during his tenure. We got Kirk two years too late. We needed him for 2016 & 2017. Zimmer's defense was at it's best then. The defensive rankings were still upper half in 2018 & 2019. But, the cracks were starting show. Actually, that defense got exposed badly against Philly in that frickin' NFC Championship game. And Zims' defense never really did show up in most of the big games and/or against upper echelon QBs.

Regardless, it was time to move on from Kirk. We weren't going anywhere. The 2024 Falcons are in the same boat as the 2018 Vikings were. Just a good QB away. Will it be too late for them as well?

Also, I'm in the minority but I'm not certain that Sam Darnold can't be our QB of the future if we aren't able to move up in the draft for a QB without completely mortgaging the future. There's a whole lot of playmakers on the offense for him to work with. If we get that damn extension with Jefferson done. Addison will only be better. Hopefully, Hockenson's rehab is going well. This draft is deep at WR. So I expect a promising rookie there. And I really liked Powell when he was in there. Jones will be a good dual threat at RB. Chandler should get better. I'd like a better interior offensive line. But, it's been serviceable. This will be the best situation Darnold's been in during his NFL career. If he fails. It's on him.

Powell did the job fine. Players like him are key. I have no faith in Darnold. But at least he has an arm. We'll see. Moving on from Kirk had to be done. It's a shame because it looked like he was part of the team and guys rallied around him. He showed leadership more so than at any point. The players looked up to him. I give that to KOC coaching. Under Zim a QB was nothing and in Kirks case a money draw from his defense. His D didn't play well in the post season. The miracle win his D lost a 17 point half time lead. I think our IL is bad. Teams attack us there. They hold there own but better fronts kick their a$$es. You can't win like that. They will pick a QB. I even hope they pick one later and do a 3 yr dev progam.

[Tommy TarkenKapp]

Kirk was pretty damn good for us. Sometimes great. We never had a complete team during his tenure. We got Kirk two years too late. We needed him for 2016 & 2017. Zimmer's defense was at it's best then. The defensive rankings were still upper half in 2018 & 2019. But, the cracks were starting show. Actually, that defense got exposed badly against Philly in that frickin' NFC Championship game. And Zims' defense never really did show up in most of the big games and/or against upper echelon QBs.

Regardless, it was time to move on from Kirk. We weren't going anywhere. The 2024 Falcons are in the same boat as the 2018 Vikings were. Just a good QB away. Will it be too late for them as well?

Also, I'm in the minority but I'm not certain that Sam Darnold can't be our QB of the future if we aren't able to move up in the draft for a QB without completely mortgaging the future. There's a whole lot of playmakers on the offense for him to work with. If we get that damn extension with Jefferson done. Addison will only be better. Hopefully, Hockenson's rehab is going well. This draft is deep at WR. So I expect a promising rookie there. And I really liked Powell when he was in there. Jones will be a good dual threat at RB. Chandler should get better. I'd like a better interior offensive line. But, it's been serviceable. This will be the best situation Darnold's been in during his NFL career. If he fails. It's on him.

Powell did the job fine. Players like him are key. I have no faith in Darnold. But at least he has an arm. We'll see. Moving on from Kirk had to be done. It's a shame because it looked like he was part of the team and guys rallied around him. He showed leadership more so than at any point. The players looked up to him. I give that to KOC coaching. Under Zim a QB was nothing and in Kirks case a money draw from his defense. His D didn't play well in the post season. The miracle win his D lost a 17 point half time lead. I think our IL is bad. Teams attack us there. They hold there own but better fronts kick their a$$es. You can't win like that. They will pick a QB. I even hope they pick one later and do a 3 yr dev progam.

It's not so much faith in Darnold as faith in the situation he's going to be in. The Jets & Panthers were a $hit show. No QBs have been successful for those teams for quite some time. KOC's offense & the playmakers we have on offense will be better than anything he ever had to work with. If Nick Mullins can move the ball & produce points in this offense then so can Darnold. Just avoid the interceptions that Mullins had a penchant for.

[Tommy TarkenKapp]

I was visiting a Denver Broncos podcast to see how they were feeling about trading up for a QB. When asked should we trade up 1 out of 13 responders said yes. 12 said no. They are smarter than Vikings fans IMO.

I'm really warming up to staying put & drafting Nix or Penix. I think Maye might have the highest ceiling of all the QB prospects. But, can & will he reach that potential. It's a roll of the dice.