2024 NFL Draft

[CharVike]

JJ has bigger receiving numbers than Moss or Rice did because he's playing 40 years after Rice and 25 years after Moss with many rules changes making the passing game far easier. As a person who has been following the NFL since 1970 I have seen the entirety of Rice and Moss's careers. JJ is amazing. He is not on the level of either of those receivers.

Trading for Herbert is as close to impossible as it gets. His contract structure makes over $100 Million immediately hit the Chargers salary cap if he is traded or released.

I’ll give you that, comparing players from different generations is impossible, there’s been too many rule changes etc. One thing I will stand by is Jj is playing better athletes. Back in Moss’s day a 4.3 meant you were top 5 faster player in the league. Nowadays some Lbs almost run 4.3s, different type of athletes nowadays.

Just because a guy is a better athlete doesn't mean they can play the sport at a higher level. A couple years ago we signed a CB that had one of the best ever 40 combine times. Problem is he couldn't play football at the NFL level and is gone. The generation thing is what separates it the most. However if you plug Dan Marino in today's game he will still put up big numbers and more than likely bigger than when he did play. He could throw every type of pass in the book and his release was lighting quick. This 40 yard dash time gets way overblown. We had the draft talk about S Hamilton and his 40 time sucked. Some felt he wasn't worth a 1st round pick. But on the field he could go sideline to sideline and make plays. Now we have Cine with a better 40 time who played 8 snaps while Hamilton is a 2nd year all pro.

[allday1991]

I’ll give you that, comparing players from different generations is impossible, there’s been too many rule changes etc. One thing I will stand by is Jj is playing better athletes. Back in Moss’s day a 4.3 meant you were top 5 faster player in the league. Nowadays some Lbs almost run 4.3s, different type of athletes nowadays.

Just because a guy is a better athlete doesn't mean they can play the sport at a higher level. A couple years ago we signed a CB that had one of the best ever 40 combine times. Problem is he couldn't play football at the NFL level and is gone. The generation thing is what separates it the most. However if you plug Dan Marino in today's game he will still put up big numbers and more than likely bigger than when he did play. He could throw every type of pass in the book and his release was lighting quick. This 40 yard dash time gets way overblown. We had the draft talk about S Hamilton and his 40 time sucked. Some felt he wasn't worth a 1st round pick. But on the field he could go sideline to sideline and make plays. Now we have Cine with a better 40 time who played 8 snaps while Hamilton is a 2nd year all pro.

True, by todays standards we are calling a 4.59 40 slow? That’s elite speed back in the 80s. Especially from a 6’4” individual. It’s true being a great athlete doesn’t mean your a great football player, however coaching staff usually find it easier to turn an athlete into a good football player than it is to turn someone who understands football into a good athlete. It’s a middle ground no? You have to have enough football knowledge to know where to be and enough athleticism to make the play. Wayne’s could run a 3.9 if he doesn’t know where to go it doesn’t matter, Hamilton can have all the football iq in the world, but if he runs a 5.1 he isn’t making any plays.

[VikingLord]

There's a lot to be said for not drafting a QB at all, but IMO Nix is well worth pick 11. We could take BPA at 11 and hope for Nix or Penix at 23. I prefer getting Nix at 11 and seeing which players remain at 23. Lots of players that are being Projected at 23 that I think would be worthy of 11.

Out of curiosity, if we don’t land one of the top 4 QBs. Who does the board like out of Nix and Penix? Personally I’d take Penix.

I think the mere fact this is even a debate shows how unclear and flat this QB class is for everyone not named Caleb Williams. And that concerns me more than just about anything else because there are going to be a lot of teams that end up settling on a guy they like for one reason or another in a class where honestly there isn't another QB who stands out at this point.

If I had to choose between Penix and Nix at 11 I'd take neither. Both are 3rd round picks in my view. Penix has some real skills but his injury history is extensive and I don't see him shaking that in the pros. Nix is the penultimate game manager QB. His ceiling as a pro is probably along the lines of Kirk Cousins. So the question in the back of my head when thinking about Nix at 11 is do you spend the 11th pick in the draft on a QB who, if he pans out, puts you right back where you were at QB with Cousins?

[CharVike]

Just because a guy is a better athlete doesn't mean they can play the sport at a higher level. A couple years ago we signed a CB that had one of the best ever 40 combine times. Problem is he couldn't play football at the NFL level and is gone. The generation thing is what separates it the most. However if you plug Dan Marino in today's game he will still put up big numbers and more than likely bigger than when he did play. He could throw every type of pass in the book and his release was lighting quick. This 40 yard dash time gets way overblown. We had the draft talk about S Hamilton and his 40 time sucked. Some felt he wasn't worth a 1st round pick. But on the field he could go sideline to sideline and make plays. Now we have Cine with a better 40 time who played 8 snaps while Hamilton is a 2nd year all pro.

True, by todays standards we are calling a 4.59 40 slow? That’s elite speed back in the 80s. Especially from a 6’4” individual. It’s true being a great athlete doesn’t mean your a great football player, however coaching staff usually find it easier to turn an athlete into a good football player than it is to turn someone who understands football into a good athlete. It’s a middle ground no? You have to have enough football knowledge to know where to be and enough athleticism to make the play. Wayne’s could run a 3.9 if he doesn’t know where to go it doesn’t matter, Hamilton can have all the football iq in the world, but if he runs a 5.1 he isn’t making any plays.

Your correct IQ can only cover athletic limitations to a certain extent. It's also true you can turn a great athlete into a football player with coaching. I prefer having fast guys just like I prefer having the bigger guys. Having a slow team isn't good. Just like have a small team isn't good. You will have a blend.

[cogitator]

There is no team past the Pats at 3 that's going to draft a QB before the Vikings at 11, so there shouldn't be a need to trade up for any pick after 3 in my opinion. I'd also take Nix or Penix before McCarthy at 11.

A little bit of chatter about the Jets and Giants taking a qb. Giants seem less likely than Jets to grab a qb. Also, someone behind the Vikings could jump up to grab a quarterback, Denver seeming to be the mostly likely team to do that.

[VikingsVictorious]

Out of curiosity, if we don’t land one of the top 4 QBs. Who does the board like out of Nix and Penix? Personally I’d take Penix.

I think the mere fact this is even a debate shows how unclear and flat this QB class is for everyone not named Caleb Williams. And that concerns me more than just about anything else because there are going to be a lot of teams that end up settling on a guy they like for one reason or another in a class where honestly there isn't another QB who stands out at this point.

If I had to choose between Penix and Nix at 11 I'd take neither. Both are 3rd round picks in my view. Penix has some real skills but his injury history is extensive and I don't see him shaking that in the pros. Nix is the penultimate game manager QB. His ceiling as a pro is probably along the lines of Kirk Cousins. So the question in the back of my head when thinking about Nix at 11 is do you spend the 11th pick in the draft on a QB who, if he pans out, puts you right back where you were at QB with Cousins?

Tom Brady was the ultimate game manager.
Let's say Nix is the next Kirk Cousins plus great mobility. That would be an incredible QB and picking him at 11 would mean a 5 or 6 million a year contract for the next 4 years (I'm guessing) and the option to keep him for 5. That would be GREAT.

[VikingsVictorious]

There is no team past the Pats at 3 that's going to draft a QB before the Vikings at 11, so there shouldn't be a need to trade up for any pick after 3 in my opinion. I'd also take Nix or Penix before McCarthy at 11.

A little bit of chatter about the Jets and Giants taking a qb. Giants seem less likely than Jets to grab a qb. Also, someone behind the Vikings could jump up to grab a quarterback, Denver seeming to be the mostly likely team to do that.

With one of the three great WRs on the board the giants don't take a QB at 6. With how angry Aaron would get if they take a QB at 10 no way the Jets take one. Yeah Denver could trade ahead of us, but they love Nix and expect him to be available at 12 so no need. The Raiders would be the biggest threat, but I think they would be just fine with Penix.

[CharVike]

There is no team past the Pats at 3 that's going to draft a QB before the Vikings at 11, so there shouldn't be a need to trade up for any pick after 3 in my opinion. I'd also take Nix or Penix before McCarthy at 11.

A little bit of chatter about the Jets and Giants taking a qb. Giants seem less likely than Jets to grab a qb. Also, someone behind the Vikings could jump up to grab a quarterback, Denver seeming to be the mostly likely team to do that.

I think both the Jets and Giants are in position to take a QB. Rodgers is ancient and coming of an injury. The Giant guy can only play good against us. They will also have the added benefit of allowing the guy a year to learn. I wonder if tossing these QBs out there year 1 is even worth it and the reason most bust. Of course there are exceptions like CJ. The Jets and Giants have OL issues that don't help at all. Darnold sees ghost every time he drops back and that started with the Jets. I think if a QB is there they like then they make the pick. I wouldn't be shocked if the Falcons pick a guy. They have an old guy with an injury also.

[Angels Wings]

There is no team past the Pats at 3 that's going to draft a QB before the Vikings at 11, so there shouldn't be a need to trade up for any pick after 3 in my opinion. I'd also take Nix or Penix before McCarthy at 11.

A little bit of chatter about the Jets and Giants taking a qb. Giants seem less likely than Jets to grab a qb. Also, someone behind the Vikings could jump up to grab a quarterback, Denver seeming to be the mostly likely team to do that.

Regardless, I don’t see the need to overpay via both picks this year and our 1st next year for JJ McCarthy. I’d rather stay put and take Penix at 11 than overpay.

[Cliff]

If there is a QB KOC really really likes that he can actually get he should do what it takes, within reason, to get them. It's what the team needs and being able to groom one is a major reason he's the head coach. Time to move on it.

If he doesn't have the ability to get that person, it is what it is, but I don't necessarily want them to draft some edge rusher (or whatever) that ends up being great and helps the team limp along at a game or 2 over .500.

Having a Jefferson/Moss/Peterson on the team is great but it hasn't translated to consistently good teams. To consistently win they need more from QB.

[Angels Wings]

If there is a QB KOC really really likes that he can actually get he should do what it takes, within reason, to get them. It's what the team needs and being able to groom one is a major reason he's the head coach. Time to move on it.

If he doesn't have the ability to get that person, it is what it is, but I don't necessarily want them to draft some edge rusher (or whatever) that ends up being great and helps the team limp along at a game or 2 over .500.

Having a Jefferson/Moss/Peterson on the team is great but it hasn't translated to consistently good teams. To consistently win they need more from QB.

Within reason is the key. I would have no issue with trading both 1sts and possibly next years’ 1st for the 2nd or 3rd pick. All of that for a pick below to reach for a QB? Nah…

[VikingsVictorious]

If there is a QB KOC really really likes that he can actually get he should do what it takes, within reason, to get them. It's what the team needs and being able to groom one is a major reason he's the head coach. Time to move on it.

If he doesn't have the ability to get that person, it is what it is, but I don't necessarily want them to draft some edge rusher (or whatever) that ends up being great and helps the team limp along at a game or 2 over .500.

Having a Jefferson/Moss/Peterson on the team is great but it hasn't translated to consistently good teams. To consistently win they need more from QB.

I don't see 2 FRPs being within reason unless it's a top 2 pick. There are no Elway/Luck/Burrow level prospects in this draft IMO so two FRPs the maximum.

[VikingsVictorious]

I watched film from McCarthy's pro day. I know it's not real football, but I liked how accurate he was on the move. Very impressive.
Short Clip praising him.

Longer clip analyzing the film.

[Cliff]

If there is a QB KOC really really likes that he can actually get he should do what it takes, within reason, to get them. It's what the team needs and being able to groom one is a major reason he's the head coach. Time to move on it.

If he doesn't have the ability to get that person, it is what it is, but I don't necessarily want them to draft some edge rusher (or whatever) that ends up being great and helps the team limp along at a game or 2 over .500.

Having a Jefferson/Moss/Peterson on the team is great but it hasn't translated to consistently good teams. To consistently win they need more from QB.

I don't see 2 FRPs being within reason unless it's a top 2 pick. There are no Elway/Luck/Burrow level prospects in this draft IMO so two FRPs the maximum.

I'll leave KOC to decide if it's worth it but I'm good with 2 1sts if he thinks one is there.

[CharVike]

I watched film from McCarthy's pro day. I know it's not real football, but I liked how accurate he was on the move. Very impressive.
Short Clip praising him.

Longer clip analyzing the film.

He has great ball velocity. I'm sure when they talked to him they tried to figure his mental side. He has all the physical skills. It will come down to how quickly he processes things. KAM has a responsibility also. Don't put some half baked OL out there. His game film is good. They are the pros and have a ton of information that no fan sees. They only have one year left on their contracts. They need to knock it out of the park this draft. We'll find out soon enough.