Baker Mayfield

[808vikingsfan]

Thank you all for your insight/opinions.

I am torn on this one. I kind of want to see how the new regime handles Cousins, but I also want to shed his salary and see where it can be better spent. To me...Baker + FA help on both sides of the ball will result in a better team than what we are rolling with now.

I would be shocked if a trade (or multiple trades) did happen. However...those of you who say Kirk is untradeable...I really think this is not true. There are a lot of smoke screens around the league. Teams not might be telling the truth...ya know? There is always a desperate team or two out there willing to overpay.

Do I think Mayfield is better than Cousins? No. But I do not think he is as big of a fall off as many of you think. Yes, Baker had 17 and 13 last year. He was also hurt for part of the season and threw the ball 150 less times than Kirk. The Browns are also a heavy-running team that scored 20 rushing TDs. I'll take his stats last year with a grain of salt. He might even still have room for growth or thrive if given a fresh start with a new team.

I’m not sure how much more clear I can make it.

Cousins’ restructure means that trading him would result in $50 million in dead cap. In other words, trading him now wouldn’t help the Vikings’ cap situation.

It’s not a matter of whether other teams would want him. It’s a matter of the cost being too high for the Vikings.

And I’m not sure why you keep bringing up the Browns. Are you not aware that they just traded 3 first-round draft picks for Deshaun Watson and signed him to a fully guaranteed $230 million contract?

It’s time for us fans to realize … the Vikings have made the decision to roll with Kirk Cousins for at least the next two years. It’s not going to change.

KIRK OR BUST! AGAIN!

Let's see if he can get another GM/HC team fired

Sorry. Not directed towards you Kapp. Just frustrated.

[CharVike]

I’m not sure how much more clear I can make it.

Cousins’ restructure means that trading him would result in $50 million in dead cap. In other words, trading him now wouldn’t help the Vikings’ cap situation.

It’s not a matter of whether other teams would want him. It’s a matter of the cost being too high for the Vikings.

And I’m not sure why you keep bringing up the Browns. Are you not aware that they just traded 3 first-round draft picks for Deshaun Watson and signed him to a fully guaranteed $230 million contract?

It’s time for us fans to realize … the Vikings have made the decision to roll with Kirk Cousins for at least the next two years. It’s not going to change.

KIRK OR BUST! AGAIN!

Let's see if he can get another GM/HC team fired

Sorry. Not directed towards you Kapp. Just frustrated.

The GM/HC got themselves fired. They were given more lives than a cat and couldn't do it. Not too many teams are begging them to come on board. If we cut Kirk he will be employed very quickly but you better have the green.

[Foreman44]

Thank you all for your insight/opinions.

I am torn on this one. I kind of want to see how the new regime handles Cousins, but I also want to shed his salary and see where it can be better spent. To me...Baker + FA help on both sides of the ball will result in a better team than what we are rolling with now.

I would be shocked if a trade (or multiple trades) did happen. However...those of you who say Kirk is untradeable...I really think this is not true. There are a lot of smoke screens around the league. Teams not might be telling the truth...ya know? There is always a desperate team or two out there willing to overpay.

Do I think Mayfield is better than Cousins? No. But I do not think he is as big of a fall off as many of you think. Yes, Baker had 17 and 13 last year. He was also hurt for part of the season and threw the ball 150 less times than Kirk. The Browns are also a heavy-running team that scored 20 rushing TDs. I'll take his stats last year with a grain of salt. He might even still have room for growth or thrive if given a fresh start with a new team.

He reminds me of Johnny mansell. Just different in there problems.i didn’t want Manziel In the draft, as some viking fans did...you could see the problems coming.same with mayfield. Maybe it’s immaturity. Maybe a fresh start, will help him grow up.

But I don’t see him coming to minn.cleveland isn’t getting anything, mayfields best hope is they release him.. and some team picks him up per a injured starter..maybe Carolina.outside chance .jmo

[CharVike]

Thank you all for your insight/opinions.

I am torn on this one. I kind of want to see how the new regime handles Cousins, but I also want to shed his salary and see where it can be better spent. To me...Baker + FA help on both sides of the ball will result in a better team than what we are rolling with now.

I would be shocked if a trade (or multiple trades) did happen. However...those of you who say Kirk is untradeable...I really think this is not true. There are a lot of smoke screens around the league. Teams not might be telling the truth...ya know? There is always a desperate team or two out there willing to overpay.

Do I think Mayfield is better than Cousins? No. But I do not think he is as big of a fall off as many of you think. Yes, Baker had 17 and 13 last year. He was also hurt for part of the season and threw the ball 150 less times than Kirk. The Browns are also a heavy-running team that scored 20 rushing TDs. I'll take his stats last year with a grain of salt. He might even still have room for growth or thrive if given a fresh start with a new team.

He reminds me of Johnny mansell. Just different in there problems.i didn’t want Manziel In the draft, as some viking fans did...you could see the problems coming.same with mayfield. Maybe it’s immaturity. Maybe a fresh start, will help him grow up.

But I don’t see him coming to minn.cleveland isn’t getting anything, mayfields best hope is they release him.. and some team picks him up per a injured starter..maybe Carolina.outside chance .jmo

Johnny football never got off the college party train and it ended his career. I assume Mayfield has stuff going on behind the scenes that's not talked about but it ended his Browns career.

[JJBreaksRecords]

quick follow up...

FA still left IF we freed up Kirk and his contract:

Mathieu
Gilmore
Campbell
Hicks
D. Brown
Fischer

Trae Waynes is still out there also. I'm sure he'll sign on the cheap side. He got 3 yr 42 million from the Bungals and basically sucked and was sent to the FA dump. Like Kirk he wants money also. This is a Speilman swing and a miss wasted 1st round pick. This is the normal outcome when Spielman, CB and draft are mentioned together.

Theres a good reason Trae is out there. HE SUCKS. Always has. He was at least average with makes tackles when the rest of the team wasnt. And read some of Kapps posts sometimes. He usually right.

[CharVike]

Trae Waynes is still out there also. I'm sure he'll sign on the cheap side. He got 3 yr 42 million from the Bungals and basically sucked and was sent to the FA dump. Like Kirk he wants money also. This is a Speilman swing and a miss wasted 1st round pick. This is the normal outcome when Spielman, CB and draft are mentioned together.

Theres a good reason Trae is out there. HE SUCKS. Always has. He was at least average with makes tackles when the rest of the team wasnt. And read some of Kapps posts sometimes. He usually right.

Most of FA is guys that suck. These are players that teams don't won't any more. There will be some exceptions like the Patriots will only go so high for OL guys. They let the high cost guys go. The last two where signed by the Giants and Chiefs. Both were overpays which is another problem with FA. When you can't draft you have no other choice. I'm not a fan of FA. Kirk was a FA who refused to sign with the Skins so they franchised him a couple seasons until they made a trade for a new starter who suffered a career ending injury. If Kirk sucks as bad as some think he never would have been franchised. That cost a team big cap and is guaranteed. Drew Brees was also franchised. I think him and Kirk were the only two that where. I read most post. We all have hits and misses. Last draft some had Darrisaw as the pick.

[allday1991]

A guy whose best season was 26-8 td ratio with barely 3500 yards for a qb who constantly puts up 4000 yards and 30 tds a year well having less turnovers, like is this even a question? What’s next, A Kaepernick or Cousins thread?

[fiestavike]

On the whole, I miss Rick. He had his shortcomings, but I listened to a whole bunch of Spielman interviews yesterday. He had made the rounds after getting canned, and I think the Vikings lost something meaningful in going from Rick to Kwesi. They lost something of their identity that I think served as a buoy, keeping them from sinking too low, and something of the character of the organization. If things don't work out with young Kwesi, I think there is a real chance this team becomes the Jets or the Lions.

I honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious. We were caught in an eddy with Rick Spielman. If we lost something of our identity by letting Spielman go, what was that identity? Bungling the QB position, failing at drafting 1st round CBs, amassing 7th round picks as an admission that the draft for you and your team is a total crap shoot? I'm glad to shed that identity.

I'm talking about as a person, a personality, and leadership. I think the Vikings will regret (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Wilfs already regret) firing him. Certainly room to criticize on the QB and various other fronts, but Rick was, I believe, the closest thing to a de facto franchise leader the Vikings have had in a long time. They could perhaps replace him with a computer system that made better choices, but that's not what I'm talking about.

[Texas Vike]

I honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious. We were caught in an eddy with Rick Spielman. If we lost something of our identity by letting Spielman go, what was that identity? Bungling the QB position, failing at drafting 1st round CBs, amassing 7th round picks as an admission that the draft for you and your team is a total crap shoot? I'm glad to shed that identity.

I'm talking about as a person, a personality, and leadership. I think the Vikings will regret (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Wilfs already regret) firing him. Certainly room to criticize on the QB and various other fronts, but Rick was, I believe, the closest thing to a de facto franchise leader the Vikings have had in a long time. They could perhaps replace him with a computer system that made better choices, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Thanks for clarifying. I have to respectfully disagree though. I really have a hard time imagining that Rick was some kind of leader that had any significant impact on how the players executed on game day. That really isn't the role of the GM, to begin with. Secondly, the GM certainly CAN and DOES create a culture. So far I prefer the culture that KAM is creating. He also just strikes me as vastly more intelligent than Rick.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I'm talking about as a person, a personality, and leadership. I think the Vikings will regret (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Wilfs already regret) firing him. Certainly room to criticize on the QB and various other fronts, but Rick was, I believe, the closest thing to a de facto franchise leader the Vikings have had in a long time. They could perhaps replace him with a computer system that made better choices, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Thanks for clarifying. I have to respectfully disagree though. I really have a hard time imagining that Rick was some kind of leader that had any significant impact on how the players executed on game day. That really isn't the role of the GM, to begin with. Secondly, the GM certainly CAN and DOES create a culture. So far I prefer the culture that KAM is creating. He also just strikes me as vastly more intelligent than Rick.

I think KAM is more intelligent in other areas. His evaluation of talent worries me and I will say I am somewhat worried about this upcoming draft. Now I would hope he is smart enough to trust his scouts and coaches but we will see.

I agree with fiesta in the fact that I'm not entirely sold on KAM quite yet for obvious reasons but I said a while back and recently that I'm not so sure firing Spielman was the right choice. You can critique Spielman for all you want, but I will say you can also do that any GM in this league.

You can critique Gutekunst for not putting any other WRs around Aaron Rodgers, you can critique Jerry Jones for constantly under achieving every year and hiring garbage head coaches, you can critique Loomis for putting the Saints in salary cap hell year after year, you can critique John Schneider for putting together terrible defenses and bad offensive lines for Russell Wilson year after year, we're on the verge or critiquing John Lynch if he didnt hit on Trey Lance. And these are just some of the better franchises as of late.

There was some you could critique Spielman on but ultimately, he put a lot of talent on this team. He gave Zimmer a lot of pieces to work with. And year after year analysts were always considering the Vikings a playoff team. But some years they were not. Was that on Zimmer or Spielman? I'll lean more towards that being on Zimmer and his overall approach to game days. The talent was their, the game planning and execution was not. I mean with how bad his defense was in the final two minutes of halves? Thats a Zimmer problem. Spielman provides the talent, it's Zimmer's job to do something with it.

You mentioned him failing with first round CBs. I dont agree with that. I actually thought Waynes was a very very solid CB especially later into his rookie contract. They simply werent going to pay him top 7 CB money in free agency. And I would say the whole Jeff Gladney thing was simply bad luck. Spielman cant prevent him from beating his gf.

Either way, Zimmer was a no brainer fire. Spielman, I'm not so sure. I need to see how Kwesi approaches these next couple drafts to get a true tell. I was really down on Kwesi with this Hunter situation but he figured it out so I will eat crow on that one. And I have liked the signings he has made. Let's see how this draft goes now.

[Texas Vike]

Thanks for clarifying. I have to respectfully disagree though. I really have a hard time imagining that Rick was some kind of leader that had any significant impact on how the players executed on game day. That really isn't the role of the GM, to begin with. Secondly, the GM certainly CAN and DOES create a culture. So far I prefer the culture that KAM is creating. He also just strikes me as vastly more intelligent than Rick.

I think KAM is more intelligent in other areas. His evaluation of talent worries me and I will say I am somewhat worried about this upcoming draft. Now I would hope he is smart enough to trust his scouts and coaches but we will see.

I agree with fiesta in the fact that I'm not entirely sold on KAM quite yet for obvious reasons but I said a while back and recently that I'm not so sure firing Spielman was the right choice. You can critique Spielman for all you want, but I will say you can also do that any GM in this league.

You can critique Gutekunst for not putting any other WRs around Aaron Rodgers, you can critique Jerry Jones for constantly under achieving every year and hiring garbage head coaches, you can critique Loomis for putting the Saints in salary cap hell year after year, you can critique John Schneider for putting together terrible defenses and bad offensive lines for Russell Wilson year after year, we're on the verge or critiquing John Lynch if he didnt hit on Trey Lance. And these are just some of the better franchises as of late.

There was some you could critique Spielman on but ultimately, he put a lot of talent on this team. He gave Zimmer a lot of pieces to work with. And year after year analysts were always considering the Vikings a playoff team. But some years they were not. Was that on Zimmer or Spielman? I'll lean more towards that being on Zimmer and his overall approach to game days. The talent was their, the game planning and execution was not. I mean with how bad his defense was in the final two minutes of halves? Thats a Zimmer problem. Spielman provides the talent, it's Zimmer's job to do something with it.

You mentioned him failing with first round CBs. I dont agree with that. I actually thought Waynes was a very very solid CB especially later into his rookie contract. They simply werent going to pay him top 7 CB money in free agency. And I would say the whole Jeff Gladney thing was simply bad luck. Spielman cant prevent him from beating his gf.

Either way, Zimmer was a no brainer fire. Spielman, I'm not so sure. I need to see how Kwesi approaches these next couple drafts to get a true tell. I was really down on Kwesi with this Hunter situation but he figured it out so I will eat crow on that one. And I have liked the signings he has made. Let's see how this draft goes now.

Your admiration of Rick is pretty well documented, so this take is not surprising. Nor do I think I can say anything that will change your opinion about him, so I won't try.

The one thing that I have not liked so far about KAM is Mannion as backup. I really hope we draft a QB to groom this year or next, if they don't think Mond looks promising. I also hope that KAM and KOC can assemble a better OL than the Ricker did. He was cursed when it came to OL.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Your admiration of Rick is pretty well documented, so this take is not surprising. Nor do I think I can say anything that will change your opinion about him, so I won't try.

You're probably right. Just saying it how it is.

The one thing that I have not liked so far about KAM is Mannion as backup. I really hope we draft a QB to groom this year or next, if they don't think Mond looks promising. I also hope that KAM and KOC can assemble a better OL than the Ricker did. He was cursed when it came to OL.

I agree I dont like the Mannion re-signing either. I dont see them drafting a QB this year because they are going to want to see how Mond develops. If anything it would be next year. Either way, I'm not big on the "developmental guy" like some are on here. The Jake Fromm's of the world rarely pan out no matter how much you try and "develop" them. And the ceiling for these guys is Jalen Hurts level play which isnt great by any means. Everyone wants to find the next hidden gem Tom Brady in the draft. 90% of the league consists of first round QBs. And this is such a QB driven league now that it is extremely rare for a future star to fall any later than the first round. Scouts just dont miss that potential anymore when it comes to QBs.

If we want a true QB of the future, we need to draft one in the first round next year. I'd even be willing to trade down this year with someone like Pittsburgh who wants to come up to snag someone like Malik Willis (who I think is overrated) and gain an extra first round pick next year. That will give us 2 first round picks in 2023 which is a prime time to snag a QB of the future. Keep an eye out for Will Levis from Kentucky.

[fiestavike]

I'm talking about as a person, a personality, and leadership. I think the Vikings will regret (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Wilfs already regret) firing him. Certainly room to criticize on the QB and various other fronts, but Rick was, I believe, the closest thing to a de facto franchise leader the Vikings have had in a long time. They could perhaps replace him with a computer system that made better choices, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Thanks for clarifying. I have to respectfully disagree though. I really have a hard time imagining that Rick was some kind of leader that had any significant impact on how the players executed on game day. That really isn't the role of the GM, to begin with. Secondly, the GM certainly CAN and DOES create a culture. So far I prefer the culture that KAM is creating. He also just strikes me as vastly more intelligent than Rick.

I agree that come game day, the GM's effect on the team is already a fait accompli. It's not like he is gonna make them play better by standing on the sideline. But Rick was personable and pretty well respected. He had people skills, some impressive personal character, and was generally well liked. What worries me more than anything (especially after hearing from Kwesi), is that everyone in leadership position for the Vikings strikes me as an empty suit. The Wilfs are business people. Kwesi comes from finance and aspires to be a computer. Kirk takes a similar data processing approach to life, football and image management. Nobody in that building, from the outside, seems to have any real leadership qualities.

Maybe it's a generational thing, but it seems to me that this team really lacks something fundamental even more now than they did before they made the changes at HC and GM. It your organization develops that absolute failure culture, that vacuum of leadership in professional sports, it can take decades to climb out of it. I'm not saying the Vikings were in great position with Rick, per se...I just think they are worse off now.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Thanks for clarifying. I have to respectfully disagree though. I really have a hard time imagining that Rick was some kind of leader that had any significant impact on how the players executed on game day. That really isn't the role of the GM, to begin with. Secondly, the GM certainly CAN and DOES create a culture. So far I prefer the culture that KAM is creating. He also just strikes me as vastly more intelligent than Rick.

I agree that come game day, the GM's effect on the team is already a fait accompli. It's not like he is gonna make them play better by standing on the sideline. But Rick was personable and pretty well respected. He had people skills, some impressive personal character, and was generally well liked. What worries me more than anything (especially after hearing from Kwesi), is that everyone in leadership position for the Vikings strikes me as an empty suit. The Wilfs are business people. Kwesi comes from finance and aspires to be a computer. Kirk takes a similar data processing approach to life, football and image management. Nobody in that building, from the outside, seems to have any real leadership qualities.

Maybe it's a generational thing, but it seems to me that this team really lacks something fundamental even more now than they did before they made the changes at HC and GM. It your organization develops that absolute failure culture, that vacuum of leadership in professional sports, it can take decades to climb out of it. I'm not saying the Vikings were in great position with Rick, per se...I just think they are worse off now.

I cant say if we are worse off now or not in terms of GM because it's just too early still with KAM. But I will say he's done better than I expected him to with handling this roster so far. Jury will be out come draft day though. But I agree with what you're saying with Rick. If anyone brought any sort of positive culture around this team over the past however many years, I believe it was Spielman. It sure wasnt Zimmer. After Zimmer was fired, the players proved that it was indeed Zim's culture that was a problem.

[StanM]

Thanks for clarifying. I have to respectfully disagree though. I really have a hard time imagining that Rick was some kind of leader that had any significant impact on how the players executed on game day. That really isn't the role of the GM, to begin with. Secondly, the GM certainly CAN and DOES create a culture. So far I prefer the culture that KAM is creating. He also just strikes me as vastly more intelligent than Rick.

I think KAM is more intelligent in other areas. His evaluation of talent worries me and I will say I am somewhat worried about this upcoming draft. Now I would hope he is smart enough to trust his scouts and coaches but we will see.

I agree with fiesta in the fact that I'm not entirely sold on KAM quite yet for obvious reasons but I said a while back and recently that I'm not so sure firing Spielman was the right choice. You can critique Spielman for all you want, but I will say you can also do that any GM in this league.

You can critique Gutekunst for not putting any other WRs around Aaron Rodgers, you can critique Jerry Jones for constantly under achieving every year and hiring garbage head coaches, you can critique Loomis for putting the Saints in salary cap hell year after year, you can critique John Schneider for putting together terrible defenses and bad offensive lines for Russell Wilson year after year, we're on the verge or critiquing John Lynch if he didnt hit on Trey Lance. And these are just some of the better franchises as of late.

There was some you could critique Spielman on but ultimately, he put a lot of talent on this team. He gave Zimmer a lot of pieces to work with. And year after year analysts were always considering the Vikings a playoff team. But some years they were not. Was that on Zimmer or Spielman? I'll lean more towards that being on Zimmer and his overall approach to game days. The talent was their, the game planning and execution was not. I mean with how bad his defense was in the final two minutes of halves? Thats a Zimmer problem. Spielman provides the talent, it's Zimmer's job to do something with it.

You mentioned him failing with first round CBs. I dont agree with that. I actually thought Waynes was a very very solid CB especially later into his rookie contract. They simply werent going to pay him top 7 CB money in free agency. And I would say the whole Jeff Gladney thing was simply bad luck. Spielman cant prevent him from beating his gf.

Either way, Zimmer was a no brainer fire. Spielman, I'm not so sure. I need to see how Kwesi approaches these next couple drafts to get a true tell. I was really down on Kwesi with this Hunter situation but he figured it out so I will eat crow on that one. And I have liked the signings he has made. Let's see how this draft goes now.

The buzz before Rick was fired was that he fully expected to be retained on black Monday and that Zim would be let go. They were reporting on some sources that he was going to be offered another position in the Vikings organization. Something happened in that meeting or during that time that changed their minds and they let Rick go. Likely it had something to do with the situation between he and Zim but we don't know that for sure. Whatever it was they pivoted on a dime and let him go. We're not a party to what went into that decision.

Original 1961 Vikings fan is offering advice on how to watch them for 60+ years and not allow it to affect our sanity. Just shoot me an email and I will recommend the best beers to counter the angst.