Vikings working to restructure Barr

[Maelstrom88]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/ ... 7004864513

[Rhodes Closed]

I'll take it. Restructuring his deal is arguably the best thing to do outside of trading him to create space.

[CharVike]

I'll take it. Restructuring his deal is arguably the best thing to do outside of trading him to create space.

What would be your guess on his trade value?

[Rhodes Closed]

I'll take it. Restructuring his deal is arguably the best thing to do outside of trading him to create space.

What would be your guess on his trade value?

Could have feasibly traded him for a Guard and some mid-round (4-5) picks as long as we were willing to give up some later rounds (5-7)

[YikesVikes]

Glad he restructured. I don't mind him at his current cap hit. I feel we can upgrade from him next season. I would love us to skip the OG train and go sign Clowney. He's a good pass rusher but excellent run stuffer. With pierce back and hopefully Hunter, we have the makings of a decent DL. Address 3tech in the first and trade up into the 2nd for a safety ( giving up or 3rd and a fourth). Draft a guard in the 3rd and one of the WRs that fall into the 4th. A couple of corners' LBs and Safeties with the other picks and we are good to go.

[RandyMoss84]

Glad he restructured. I don't mind him at his current cap hit. I feel we can upgrade from him next season. I would love us to skip the OG train and go sign Clowney. He's a good pass rusher but excellent run stuffer. With pierce back and hopefully Hunter, we have the makings of a decent DL. Address 3tech in the first and trade up into the 2nd for a safety ( giving up or 3rd and a fourth). Draft a guard in the 3rd and one of the WRs that fall into the 4th. A couple of corners' LBs and Safeties with the other picks and we are good to go.

I sure hope Vikings do not sign Clowney, he is overrated

[YikesVikes]

Glad he restructured. I don't mind him at his current cap hit. I feel we can upgrade from him next season. I would love us to skip the OG train and go sign Clowney. He's a good pass rusher but excellent run stuffer. With pierce back and hopefully Hunter, we have the makings of a decent DL. Address 3tech in the first and trade up into the 2nd for a safety ( giving up or 3rd and a fourth). Draft a guard in the 3rd and one of the WRs that fall into the 4th. A couple of corners' LBs and Safeties with the other picks and we are good to go.

I sure hope Vikings do not sign Clowney, he is overrated

I'm what way?

[Pondering Her Percy]

I sure hope Vikings do not sign Clowney, he is overrated

I'm what way?

Every way. You talk about Barr not being worth #9 overall? Clowney was #1 overall in 2014, played 1 full season since entering the league, has bounced from team to team and is far from a consistent pass rusher. The guy is the definition of overrated.

[YikesVikes]

I'm what way?

Every way. You talk about Barr not being worth #9 overall? Clowney was #1 overall in 2014, played 1 full season since entering the league, has bounced from team to team and is far from a consistent pass rusher. The guy is the definition of overrated.

Clowney is a Burst for the Houston @ the #1 pick. No doubt. Good thing we aren't drafting him.
Far from consistent but has back to back 9 sack seasons, while holding a 91+ PFF run def grade.
Barr has played 2 full seasons in 7 years. Not exactly better.
Clowney is a good pass rusher. He isn't an excellent pass rusher. He is simply good. He is an elite run stopper and disrupter. Something that Barr is not. So I would take a B pass rusher and a A+ run defender at RDE, any day of the week. We have a hole that he fixes. Obviously, Barr is more like I think he is given the fact that he had to reduce his salary to stay with us.

[S197]

Every way. You talk about Barr not being worth #9 overall? Clowney was #1 overall in 2014, played 1 full season since entering the league, has bounced from team to team and is far from a consistent pass rusher. The guy is the definition of overrated.

Clowney is a Burst for the Houston @ the #1 pick. No doubt. Good thing we aren't drafting him.
Far from consistent but has back to back 9 sack seasons, while holding a 91+ PFF run def grade.
Barr has played 2 full seasons in 7 years. Not exactly better.
Clowney is a good pass rusher. He isn't an excellent pass rusher. He is simply good. He is an elite run stopper and disrupter. Something that Barr is not. So I would take a B pass rusher and a A+ run defender at RDE, any day of the week. We have a hole that he fixes. Obviously, Barr is more like I think he is given the fact that he had to reduce his salary to stay with us.

You bring up a good point, in Zimmer's defense, the DL is actually tasked with stopping the run first, not rushing the passer. At least that's the way it used to be when he would use the double-A gap and disguised blitzes a lot more. I don't know what type of contract Clowney would command but he could potentially be a good scheme fit.

[fiestavike]

Clowney is a Burst for the Houston @ the #1 pick. No doubt. Good thing we aren't drafting him.
Far from consistent but has back to back 9 sack seasons, while holding a 91+ PFF run def grade.
Barr has played 2 full seasons in 7 years. Not exactly better.
Clowney is a good pass rusher. He isn't an excellent pass rusher. He is simply good. He is an elite run stopper and disrupter. Something that Barr is not. So I would take a B pass rusher and a A+ run defender at RDE, any day of the week. We have a hole that he fixes. Obviously, Barr is more like I think he is given the fact that he had to reduce his salary to stay with us.

You bring up a good point, in Zimmer's defense, the DL is actually tasked with stopping the run first, not rushing the passer. At least that's the way it used to be when he would use the double-A gap and disguised blitzes a lot more. I don't know what type of contract Clowney would command but he could potentially be a good scheme fit.

A front line of Clowney, Tomlinson, Pierce, and Hunter would be great against the run, but not provide much in the pass rush, I fear.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Every way. You talk about Barr not being worth #9 overall? Clowney was #1 overall in 2014, played 1 full season since entering the league, has bounced from team to team and is far from a consistent pass rusher. The guy is the definition of overrated.

Clowney is a Burst for the Houston @ the #1 pick. No doubt. Good thing we aren't drafting him.
Far from consistent but has back to back 9 sack seasons, while holding a 91+ PFF run def grade.
Barr has played 2 full seasons in 7 years. Not exactly better.
Clowney is a good pass rusher. He isn't an excellent pass rusher. He is simply good. He is an elite run stopper and disrupter. Something that Barr is not. So I would take a B pass rusher and a A+ run defender at RDE, any day of the week. We have a hole that he fixes. Obviously, Barr is more like I think he is given the fact that he had to reduce his salary to stay with us.

Dude he had back to back 9 sack seasons in 2017 and 2018. Thats 3-4 years ago and completely irrelevant right now.

Regardless of how you want to look at it, Barr has been more durable than Clowney has and has never missed significant time outside of this past year.

Also, I'm not sure why you're trying to compare Clowney's sacks to Barr's. Barr is an outside LB in a true 4-3 scheme. He's not a defensive end like Clowney or a 3-4 OLB. So of course Clowney is going to have more sacks. That's like me trying to brag about Barr's cover skills by comparing him to Clowney's cover skills (which I'm guessing are pathetic).

Of course Clowney "fixes" the other DE spot, nobody is there? But Barr is also just as valuable at his spot, actually knows this defense and knows what his job is. Plus, by signing Clowney, our entire starting DL would be under heavy contracts. Given what we currently have, drafting your replacement for the other DE spot is the perfect move IMO

[YikesVikes]

Clowney is a Burst for the Houston @ the #1 pick. No doubt. Good thing we aren't drafting him.
Far from consistent but has back to back 9 sack seasons, while holding a 91+ PFF run def grade.
Barr has played 2 full seasons in 7 years. Not exactly better.
Clowney is a good pass rusher. He isn't an excellent pass rusher. He is simply good. He is an elite run stopper and disrupter. Something that Barr is not. So I would take a B pass rusher and a A+ run defender at RDE, any day of the week. We have a hole that he fixes. Obviously, Barr is more like I think he is given the fact that he had to reduce his salary to stay with us.

Dude he had back to back 9 sack seasons in 2017 and 2018. Thats 3-4 years ago and completely irrelevant right now.

Regardless of how you want to look at it, Barr has been more durable than Clowney has and has never missed significant time outside of this past year.

Also, I'm not sure why you're trying to compare Clowney's sacks to Barr's. Barr is an outside LB in a true 4-3 scheme. He's not a defensive end like Clowney or a 3-4 OLB. So of course Clowney is going to have more sacks. That's like me trying to brag about Barr's cover skills by comparing him to Clowney's cover skills (which I'm guessing are pathetic).

Of course Clowney "fixes" the other DE spot, nobody is there? But Barr is also just as valuable at his spot, actually knows this defense and knows what his job is. Plus, by signing Clowney, our entire starting DL would be under heavy contracts. Given what we currently have, drafting your replacement for the other DE spot is the perfect move IMO

That would be your preferred move. I would rather have Clowney on a 2 year rental, and replace Barr with Parsons, Collins, or Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah.

I also didn't try and compare Barr's and Clowney's sacks numbers. This is why discussions with you sometimes are a waste of time. You often start arguing things no one said. I said Clowney is a disruptor. BTW his cover grades for the past 3 years are 80/87/87. I don't believe he is the same caliber of coverage LB as Barr (who isn't great) but Barr is easily better in space.

As for Barr being an 4-3 LB. That is true but you forgot to add that he plays in a double A gap scheme. He is plenty of blitzing opportunity and does not always get home. A great season from said LB would be 5 - 8 sacks. He has never had more than 3. The pressures he gets credit for are by products of the double A gap scheme. He's not beating a guard and getting home, he is coming clean and still failing to get to the QB. He's not good and I am glad he and his ridiculous contract and soft play will be gone after this season.

[YikesVikes]

You bring up a good point, in Zimmer's defense, the DL is actually tasked with stopping the run first, not rushing the passer. At least that's the way it used to be when he would use the double-A gap and disguised blitzes a lot more. I don't know what type of contract Clowney would command but he could potentially be a good scheme fit.

A front line of Clowney, Tomlinson, Pierce, and Hunter would be great against the run, but not provide much in the pass rush, I fear.

Clowney and Hunter will create plenty of pressure. We will also be facing more 3rd and longs. Lets stop pretending than Clowney is a bad pass rusher. They guys is a good pass rusher. The issue is he was drafted to be an Elite pass rusher.

[Pondering Her Percy]

That would be your preferred move. I would rather have Clowney on a 2 year rental, and replace Barr with Parsons, Collins, or Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah.

We already have a ridiculous amount of cap into 3 defensive lineman and that's just going to get larger if Hunter gets a new deal. Adding a 4th and having nobody on a rookie contract doesnt make much sense to me. Clowney is going to continue to want big money. The guy has never posted double digit sacks in his career and was the #1 overall pick. I'd much rather keep Barr right now and draft a top DE instead of paying Clowney big money and drafting a LB. No less you're now bringing in two new guys that will be new to this defensive scheme vs. bringing in just one. I'd rather keep that chemistry with Barr and Kendricks. I'm just not a fan of Clowney and never have been. And to be honest, the guy is too banged up too often it seems

I also didn't try and compare Barr's and Clowney's sacks numbers. This is why discussions with you sometimes are a waste of time. You often start arguing things no one said. I said Clowney is a disruptor. BTW his cover grades for the past 3 years are 80/87/87. I don't believe he is the same caliber of coverage LB as Barr (who isn't great) but Barr is easily better in space.

okay? But you say Clowney had back to back 9 sacks seasons....that happened 3-4 years ago. If you arent comparing, what are you trying to prove. We're talking about a guy that is now 3-4 years older than he was then and is often banged up.

Regarding Clowneys coverage grades, I honestly dont care what they are, he's not a linebacker no less a cover LB. Those grades are taken off of an extremely small sample size. He's a 4-3 DE, that is all. When you have a LB that's not deserving of his big contract but knows this defense inside and out and has that chemistry vs. a DE that is not worth what he is going to ask for and doesnt know this defense, regardless of who it is, I dont make that change. Neither Clowney or Barr are going to be worth what they are paid IMO but at least Barr has that chemistry, does his job and knows this defense.

As for Barr being an 4-3 LB. That is true but you forgot to add that he plays in a double A gap scheme. He is plenty of blitzing opportunity and does not always get home. A great season from said LB would be 5 - 8 sacks. He has never had more than 3. The pressures he gets credit for are by products of the double A gap scheme. He's not beating a guard and getting home, he is coming clean and still failing to get to the QB. He's not good and I am glad he and his ridiculous contract and soft play will be gone after this season.

Come on.... given the athlete Barr is and you saying "he's coming through clean and failing to get to the QB" what are you really trying to prove there? You want to sit here and talk double A gap scheme....well in that scheme, he blitzes most of the time right up the A gap. That is directly in the QBs face. It's not like a DE coming from a QBs blindside. The QB see's him right off the snap. You think he's just going to soak a sack every time? That blitzing is something that isnt going to show up on a stat sheet. Eric Kendricks is arguably the best MLB in the NFL. He is lining up in that double A gap blitz and blitzes just like Barr does. Kendricks has 2.5 sacks in the last 4 years....total. Those blitzes arent designed for the LBs to rack up sacks. It forces the QB to throw the ball away fast or make a panic throw that results in a big play.

The problem with some fans and Barr is that many fans had that vision that Barr was that hybrid LB/pass rusher coming out of college and in a way, he was posting double digit sacks his last two years at UCLA. Fans think that is suppose to automatically transfer to the NFL. But what they dont understand is that he is NOT used like that in this scheme. He's not asked to hit an offensive lineman with speed and bend and strip sack the QB. Like Barr's sack numbers are constantly brought up. He's a 4-3 OLB, NOT a DE! He is primarily asked to go from sideline to sideline to make plays in the run game and hold solid in coverage. He racks up plenty of pressures when asked to blitz up the A gap. Those blitzes consistently work when both him and Kendricks are playing. However, they dont always result in sacks but they do result in many busted plays, picks, throw aways, incompletions, etc. I mean are you really going to say that Parsons would get more sacks because he'd get to the QB faster than Barr? I hope not. Athletically, Barr can hang with the best of them, so saying he cant get home on double A gap blitzes is just flat out false and quite silly to be honest. The amount of times I've seen a QB take the snap, Barr blitzes and the QB throws directly in the dirt because his WRs arent even out of their breaks yet have been plenty since he has been here. And that's something that will never show up on your nfl.com stat sheet.

This is exactly what I'm talking about in regards to people not realizing the importance of Barr. Look last year, I cant even recall a double A gap blitz in any game because he was out all year and then Kendricks missed the last third of the year.