Heading into the 2021 Offseason- FO/Coaching

[S197]

Gary Kubiak has officially retired, now please take Klint with you and please hire Gase to be the offensive coordinator so offensive coordinators can stop leaving every year

Gase? We will be begging to fire him by Oct. The dude's run offense is so predictable. No motions, and they almost always run to the strong side.

In other words, he'll fit right in

[StumpHunter]

You look at the remaining teams in the playoffs, and it is the 3 of the 4 best QBs this year, along with the GOAT. Not the 3 of 4 best remaining defenses, only TB is in the top 10 at #6 in scoring, but the best at QB.

History proves that to be irrelevant.

In 2017 the final 4 QBs were:

Tom Brady
Nick Foles
Case Keenum
Blake Bortles

There is a perfect example of 3 of the 4 best remaining DEFENSES.

There are exceptions to every rule, but the actual history of the final four teams and not just a single cherry picked year indicate the best offenses are winning in the playoffs.

Let me help you with an actual history that proves what I said to be very relevant:
2018 scoring defenses:
#7
#28
#19
#20

2019
#4
#9
#10
#12

2020
#6
#13
#16
#17

Offenses:
2018
#1
#2
#3
#8

2019
#2
#5
#8
#12

2020
#1
#3
#4
#5

This does show that generally bad defenses don't make it far in the playoffs as well, and we saw that this year with both of the bottom defenses, TN and Cleveland getting knocked out.

The recipe in the modern NFL for winning it all is a GREAT offense and a solid defense. A solid offense and a great defense doesn't get it done the vast majority of the time.

[YikesVikes]

Gase? We will be begging to fire him by Oct. The dude's run offense is so predictable. No motions, and they almost always run to the strong side.

I doubt Gase is worse than DiFLOPio

He is. Flip wanted to throw the ball and he was good at it. Gase wants to run the ball and is bad at it. Flip just didn't fit our personnel and Head Coach's direction. Gase's offense is somewhere between high school and junior college.

[Pondering Her Percy]

History proves that to be irrelevant.

In 2017 the final 4 QBs were:

Tom Brady
Nick Foles
Case Keenum
Blake Bortles

There is a perfect example of 3 of the 4 best remaining DEFENSES.

There are exceptions to every rule, but the actual history of the final four teams and not just a single cherry picked year indicate the best offenses are winning in the playoffs.

Let me help you with an actual history that proves what I said to be very relevant:
2018 scoring defenses:
#7
#28
#19
#20

2019
#4
#9
#10
#12

2020
#6
#13
#16
#17

Offenses:
2018
#1
#2
#3
#8

2019
#2
#5
#8
#12

2020
#1
#3
#4
#5

This does show that generally bad defenses don't make it far in the playoffs as well, and we saw that this year with both of the bottom defenses, TN and Cleveland getting knocked out.

The recipe in the modern NFL for winning it all is a GREAT offense and a solid defense. A solid offense and a great defense doesn't get it done the vast majority of the time.

I dont think it has to be a "great" offense either. It's like any year, you have to be balanced. You cant be an absolute sieve on defense either. The definition of being unbalanced is having the 4th total offense and 27th total defense like we did this year. Those cancel out and you're floating around a 7-9 / 8-8 average team. But in 2017, when you had an elite defense paired with a very good offense, you're in an NFC championship game. The Vikings were just as talented or more talented than that Eagles team. They were simply outcoached. Zim figured he could get to Foles with pressure and he'd check down all game and instead, they went over the top each and every time. Pair that with Keenum finally crapping his pants, that's the result you get.

[StumpHunter]

There are exceptions to every rule, but the actual history of the final four teams and not just a single cherry picked year indicate the best offenses are winning in the playoffs.

Let me help you with an actual history that proves what I said to be very relevant:
2018 scoring defenses:
#7
#28
#19
#20

2019
#4
#9
#10
#12

2020
#6
#13
#16
#17

Offenses:
2018
#1
#2
#3
#8

2019
#2
#5
#8
#12

2020
#1
#3
#4
#5

This does show that generally bad defenses don't make it far in the playoffs as well, and we saw that this year with both of the bottom defenses, TN and Cleveland getting knocked out.

The recipe in the modern NFL for winning it all is a GREAT offense and a solid defense. A solid offense and a great defense doesn't get it done the vast majority of the time.

I dont think it has to be a "great" offense either. It's like any year, you have to be balanced. You cant be an absolute sieve on defense either. The definition of being unbalanced is having the 4th total offense and 27th total defense like we did this year. Those cancel out and you're floating around a 7-9 / 8-8 average team. But in 2017, when you had an elite defense paired with a very good offense, you're in an NFC championship game. The Vikings were just as talented or more talented than that Eagles team. They were simply outcoached. Zim figured he could get to Foles with pressure and he'd check down all game and instead, they went over the top each and every time. Pair that with Keenum finally crapping his pants, that's the result you get.

We didn't have the 4th best scoring offense (scoring being what wins games, not yards), we had the 10th best scoring offense.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsoff/2020

There were a number of teams that didn't make the playoffs with similar offenses, LV, Houston, AZ, and ever offense that did make the playoffs with a similar scoring offense or worse than the Vikings, Balt, Cle, Pitt, LAR and Indy, are no longer in the playoffs. Of those playoff teams only Cleveland had a below average defense, and the other Baltimore, Pitt and LAR were all top 4 defenses.

In other words even if the Viking had a top 5 defense they still weren't good enough on offense to win it all. Not because of covid or injuries, but because the Oline isn't very good and the QB is just an above average QB.

[YikesVikes]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pff-regrad ... 54282.html

"Bradbury’s pass-protection has been a borderline liability for Minnesota over the last couple of years. Among 41 centers to play at least 500 snaps in pass-protection in their first two seasons in the NFL, Bradbury ranks dead last in pass-block grade by nearly six grading points (36.3). Since being drafted, he has allowed a league-worst 5.2% pressure rate. Considering the low success rate of interior offensive linemen in the first round, as well as the sample we have on Bradbury through the first two years, things aren’t looking great for this selection.”

[RandyMoss84]

Defensive backs coach Daronte Jones is taking the job at Lousiana State, he did a good job with the defensive backs, he will be missed and I hope Vikings will find a good replacement for him, now Vikings will need to find offensive coordinator, defensive backs, special teams, and conditioning coach

[Pondering Her Percy]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pff-regrad ... 54282.html

"Bradbury’s pass-protection has been a borderline liability for Minnesota over the last couple of years. Among 41 centers to play at least 500 snaps in pass-protection in their first two seasons in the NFL, Bradbury ranks dead last in pass-block grade by nearly six grading points (36.3). Since being drafted, he has allowed a league-worst 5.2% pressure rate. Considering the low success rate of interior offensive linemen in the first round, as well as the sample we have on Bradbury through the first two years, things aren’t looking great for this selection.”

Yeah I've harped on this for quite some time now. Bradbury is an excellent run blocker but his pass blocking has been brutal. And each year I have given him the benefit of the doubt hoping it will improve the following season and just hasnt.

The problem right now with our entire interior in regards to Spielman and Zimmer is that one or the other (or both) are too worried about "if they fit the scheme" or not. The Vikings have done a much better job "investing in OL" as of the past 4 years in the earlier rounds.

2017- Elflein (3rd round)
2018- O'Neill (2nd round)
2019- Bradbury (1st round)
2020- Cleveland (2nd round)

If you asked someone that didnt know anything about the Vikings current OL, by looking at what the Vikings have invested in OL above, do you think they did a good job addressing the OL. I guarantee the answer would be yes. The above looks good on paper.

Hear me out here.... The problem is their skill set. They are all excellent athletes for offensive lineman. Nobody can disagree there and I think that's exactly why we targeted them because of our style of running and them wanting the OL to get out to the second level.

What is their problem then? It's clear as day. It's CORE STRENGTH.

There is a reason this has not been a problem for someone like O'Neill but has been for the others. IMO, offensive tackles in this league DO need to be great athletes and not slow footed lugs. 95% of what tackles see coming off the edge is all speed and very little power. This will also bode well for Ezra Cleveland IF they move him out to his natural position of LT.

However when it comes to guard or center, they need to stop worrying about "what fits the scheme". We have Dalvin Cook at RB. The guy does not need some sort of unreal run blocking OL. He's similar to AP in the sense that they are so good, that they will make a bad run blocking OL look good. In turn, we have to stop looking for all these athletes (mainly on the interior) and find guys that have a legitimate anchor and core strength to handle power on the inside.

When you have a true pocket passing QB, the worst place to give up pressure in on the interior because it gives your QB zero pocket to step into. This has been a constant problem with our OL. So many times over the past few years, the second Cousins hits the back of his drop, he has his own offensive lineman sitting on his lap. Think about it. Try and name all the times you remember Cousins getting sacked by guys coming around the edge compared to how often he's been sacked by someone up the middle. The latter happens SO much more often.

We make OL so much more complicated than it should be. You need to find core strength with your interior guys and athleticism with your tackles. Sure there is more that goes into it but if we can find that at all 5 positions on the OL, I think you would see a drastic improvement.

1.)

[StumpHunter]

2017- Elflein (3rd round)
2018- O'Neill (2nd round)
2019- Bradbury (1st round)
2020- Cleveland (2nd round)

If you asked someone that didnt know anything about the Vikings current OL, by looking at what the Vikings have invested in OL above, do you think they did a good job addressing the OL. I guarantee the answer would be yes. The above looks good on paper.

I have been saying for a while now that Rick's problem isn't that he doesn't invest in the Oline, it is that his investments don't pay off. So far only O'Neil has lived up to his draft pick while the rest look to be really poor value for where they were picked, which is why looking simply at where a player was picked to decide if the OL was addressed properly is pretty stupid.

Of course, he had 2 holes on the Oline this year and only drafted one guy to fill them, didn't sign anyone of note in FAs, and maybe that is what people don't like about what Rick has done with the Oline? Each year it seems like we have multiple holes on the line, and Rick always leaves at least one open going into the season.

[YikesVikes]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pff-regrad ... 54282.html

"Bradbury’s pass-protection has been a borderline liability for Minnesota over the last couple of years. Among 41 centers to play at least 500 snaps in pass-protection in their first two seasons in the NFL, Bradbury ranks dead last in pass-block grade by nearly six grading points (36.3). Since being drafted, he has allowed a league-worst 5.2% pressure rate. Considering the low success rate of interior offensive linemen in the first round, as well as the sample we have on Bradbury through the first two years, things aren’t looking great for this selection.”

Yeah I've harped on this for quite some time now. Bradbury is an excellent run blocker but his pass blocking has been brutal. And each year I have given him the benefit of the doubt hoping it will improve the following season and just hasnt.

The problem right now with our entire interior in regards to Spielman and Zimmer is that one or the other (or both) are too worried about "if they fit the scheme" or not. The Vikings have done a much better job "investing in OL" as of the past 4 years in the earlier rounds.

2017- Elflein (3rd round)
2018- O'Neill (2nd round)
2019- Bradbury (1st round)
2020- Cleveland (2nd round)

If you asked someone that didnt know anything about the Vikings current OL, by looking at what the Vikings have invested in OL above, do you think they did a good job addressing the OL. I guarantee the answer would be yes. The above looks good on paper.

Hear me out here.... The problem is their skill set. They are all excellent athletes for offensive lineman. Nobody can disagree there and I think that's exactly why we targeted them because of our style of running and them wanting the OL to get out to the second level.

What is their problem then? It's clear as day. It's CORE STRENGTH.

There is a reason this has not been a problem for someone like O'Neill but has been for the others. IMO, offensive tackles in this league DO need to be great athletes and not slow footed lugs. 95% of what tackles see coming off the edge is all speed and very little power. This will also bode well for Ezra Cleveland IF they move him out to his natural position of LT.

However when it comes to guard or center, they need to stop worrying about "what fits the scheme". We have Dalvin Cook at RB. The guy does not need some sort of unreal run blocking OL. He's similar to AP in the sense that they are so good, that they will make a bad run blocking OL look good. In turn, we have to stop looking for all these athletes (mainly on the interior) and find guys that have a legitimate anchor and core strength to handle power on the inside.

When you have a true pocket passing QB, the worst place to give up pressure in on the interior because it gives your QB zero pocket to step into. This has been a constant problem with our OL. So many times over the past few years, the second Cousins hits the back of his drop, he has his own offensive lineman sitting on his lap. Think about it. Try and name all the times you remember Cousins getting sacked by guys coming around the edge compared to how often he's been sacked by someone up the middle. The latter happens SO much more often.

We make OL so much more complicated than it should be. You need to find core strength with your interior guys and athleticism with your tackles. Sure there is more that goes into it but if we can find that at all 5 positions on the OL, I think you would see a drastic improvement.

1.)

I agree with you. However, I am not convinced that its all lack of core strength. I really do not know what our OL coach is teaching these guys. They look very unprepared to deal with the most basic of pass rushes. Its one thing to see them completely get destroyed, its another to see them make rudimentary pass blocking mistakes over and over again. I just want us to bring in Bill Callahan so badly.

[Pondering Her Percy]

2017- Elflein (3rd round)
2018- O'Neill (2nd round)
2019- Bradbury (1st round)
2020- Cleveland (2nd round)

If you asked someone that didnt know anything about the Vikings current OL, by looking at what the Vikings have invested in OL above, do you think they did a good job addressing the OL. I guarantee the answer would be yes. The above looks good on paper.

I have been saying for a while now that Rick's problem isn't that he doesn't invest in the Oline, it is that his investments don't pay off. So far only O'Neil has lived up to his draft pick while the rest look to be really poor value for where they were picked, which is why looking simply at where a player was picked to decide if the OL was addressed properly is pretty stupid.

Of course, he had 2 holes on the Oline this year and only drafted one guy to fill them, didn't sign anyone of note in FAs, and maybe that is what people don't like about what Rick has done with the Oline? Each year it seems like we have multiple holes on the line, and Rick always leaves at least one open going into the season.

Well I would say the jury is still out on Cleveland. He was playing on the complete opposite side of the line no less a completely different position than what he is use to. That would be like drafting Brian O'Neill and then asking him to play left guard. And then evaluating O'Neill after his rookie year and saying he didnt pan out. That's not really a fair assessment to O'Neill.

I think they really just need to move on from Reiff. He played much, much better this year so IMO, that did nothing but at least give him SOME sort of trade value. I dont even care if we take a 7th rounder for him. Something, anything. Outright cutting him is a possibility but he carries enough value to at least be traded.

Either way, they need to move on from him so we can get Cleveland in his natural position. Like STOP trying to fill your guard positions with offensive tackles. Invest in a damn guard in the draft and invest in one via FA. It doesnt have to be the best guard in FA that you overpay. But someone like a Mike Iupati or Kelechi Osemele. Someone that's been around the block a few times. A veteran leader that may be aging but still solid and reliable. Neither are the elite guard they were in the prime of their career but they are still very solid players.

As for the other guard spot, I would be all in for Alijah Vera-Tucker from USC who's a phenomenal pass blocker or Trey Smith out of Tennessee who might be the nastiest guard in all of football. No less Smith was said to be the 2nd best guard in the nation as a FRESHMAN behind Quinton Nelson in 2017. He took some steps back due to blood clots in his lungs. However recently he has made it back to being his old self.

I'm just so sick of seeing tackles playing guard. Trade Reiff, move Cleveland and find one rookie and one FA that are ACTUAL guards and can help this team

[J. Kapp 11]

I have been saying for a while now that Rick's problem isn't that he doesn't invest in the Oline, it is that his investments don't pay off. So far only O'Neil has lived up to his draft pick while the rest look to be really poor value for where they were picked, which is why looking simply at where a player was picked to decide if the OL was addressed properly is pretty stupid.

Of course, he had 2 holes on the Oline this year and only drafted one guy to fill them, didn't sign anyone of note in FAs, and maybe that is what people don't like about what Rick has done with the Oline? Each year it seems like we have multiple holes on the line, and Rick always leaves at least one open going into the season.

Well I would say the jury is still out on Cleveland. He was playing on the complete opposite side of the line no less a completely different position than what he is use to. That would be like drafting Brian O'Neill and then asking him to play left guard. And then evaluating O'Neill after his rookie year and saying he didnt pan out. That's not really a fair assessment to O'Neill.

I think they really just need to move on from Reiff. He played much, much better this year so IMO, that did nothing but at least give him SOME sort of trade value. I dont even care if we take a 7th rounder for him. Something, anything. Outright cutting him is a possibility but he carries enough value to at least be traded.

Either way, they need to move on from him so we can get Cleveland in his natural position. Like STOP trying to fill your guard positions with offensive tackles. Invest in a damn guard in the draft and invest in one via FA. It doesnt have to be the best guard in FA that you overpay. But someone like a Mike Iupati or Kelechi Osemele. Someone that's been around the block a few times. A veteran leader that may be aging but still solid and reliable. Neither are the elite guard they were in the prime of their career but they are still very solid players.

As for the other guard spot, I would be all in for Alijah Vera-Tucker from USC who's a phenomenal pass blocker or Trey Smith out of Tennessee who might be the nastiest guard in all of football. No less Smith was said to be the 2nd best guard in the nation as a FRESHMAN behind Quinton Nelson in 2017. He took some steps back due to blood clots in his lungs. However recently he has made it back to being his old self.

I'm just so sick of seeing tackles playing guard. Trade Reiff, move Cleveland and find one rookie and one FA that are ACTUAL guards and can help this team

It's too bad about Reiff. He probably had his best year, and he did it on a reduced salary. Even though he's not a star, I've always liked him as a player, and from all accounts he's a true leader in the O-line room.

But with the cap situation being what it is, both for the Vikings and the NFL in general, that $13.95 million cap hit is just too big to keep on the books. For once, the Vikings have a situation where the prorated bonus (dead cap) is relatively small at $2.2 million compared to the total package. So I don't see how they wouldn't either cut or trade him. The issue with trading him is finding a trade partner in this stormy cap climate to take on that $11.65 million base salary. The Vikings may have to simply cut him.

If that's the case, then the Vikings MUST move Cleveland to tackle. That's what they drafted him to play.

Let's also not forget that Cleveland moved to guard with no OTAs, no minicamp, and no preseason. He was learning on the fly and playing out of position. He was a stud in the running game, but pass blocking at guard is different than pass blocking at tackle. I'm with you, PHP. He needs to be playing his natural position in order to be evaluated fairly.

Also, with the cap situation in the NFL, I think we're going to see some veterans available that might not otherwise be out there. Lots of teams are going to be in the Reiff situation, so I have to believe the Vikings can find at least a replacement-level veteran guard at an affordable salary.

[RandyMoss84]

Vikings have hired Keenan McCardell as wide receivers coach, Diggs loved that guy, he coached Diggs when Diggs was at Maryland so I think Keenan will make an impact on Jefferson and it is looking likely that Klint will be the offensive coordinator and Andrew Janaocko will replace Kubiak as quarterbacks coach and Vikings are going to hire former Philadelphia Eagles strength and conditioning coach Josh Hingst, who had been with the organization since 2013. No candidates on special teams coach yet but they did hire former Giants Anthony Blevins for the position

https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-viki ... GbP6YK1zQo

[Pondering Her Percy]

Vikings have hired Keenan McCardell as wide receivers coach, Diggs loved that guy, he coached Diggs when Diggs was at Maryland so I think Keenan will make an impact on Jefferson and it is looking likely that Klint will be the offensive coordinator and Andrew Janaocko will replace Kubiak as quarterbacks coach and Vikings are going to hire former Philadelphia Eagles strength and conditioning coach Josh Hingst, who had been with the organization since 2013. No candidates on special teams coach yet but they did hire former Giants Anthony Blevins for the position

https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-viki ... GbP6YK1zQo

I'm actually pretty excited about the McCardell signing. He's gotten a ton of praise as of late as a coach.

As for special teams, supposedly we have promoted Ryan Ficken to special teams coordinator. He's been with the Vikings 14 years and this is his 8th year as an assistant special teams coordinator.

[RandyMoss84]

Vikings have hired Keenan McCardell as wide receivers coach, Diggs loved that guy, he coached Diggs when Diggs was at Maryland so I think Keenan will make an impact on Jefferson and it is looking likely that Klint will be the offensive coordinator and Andrew Janaocko will replace Kubiak as quarterbacks coach and Vikings are going to hire former Philadelphia Eagles strength and conditioning coach Josh Hingst, who had been with the organization since 2013. No candidates on special teams coach yet but they did hire former Giants Anthony Blevins for the position

https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-viki ... GbP6YK1zQo

I'm actually pretty excited about the McCardell signing. He's gotten a ton of praise as of late as a coach.

As for special teams, supposedly we have promoted Ryan Ficken to special teams coordinator. He's been with the Vikings 14 years and this is his 8th year as an assistant special teams coordinator.

Hmmm, I guess promoting Ryan is a good move since he has experience, thank you for the update