Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

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StumpHunter
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:11 pm
cmoss84 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:15 am Not sure where to post this question. But how many of you would trade Cousins and Rieff (or? Barr?) for Deshaun Watson? He's not a happy fellow.
I wouldn't want the guy. He's a public cry baby. You don't want that on your team. Not sure what he is not happy about but it's probably money. These numbers get posted on websites but I don't know how they get them. Does the NFL as a trade association need to provide them. I doubt it. Do private firms or teams need to provide them? That I know they don't. So these are pie in the sky numbers posted by someone. I read Watson will get 39 million. I'm sure others have read a different number. I'll stick with the 39 million and he's unhappy for some reason. I wouldn't give a bag of pop corn for the cry baby. Right now he has one of the best O lines in the game. What till he gets behind a piece of crap line. Those numbers will go down. They do for all when the pressure is turned up. He needs to grow up before I would want him on our team. We get a new OC every year. I'm not sure how he would deal with that. Probably cry to the media again. A big no thanks.
Do you have any quotes from Watson demonstrating he is cry baby?

Watson is the 2nd highest paid QB in the NFL and wants to win, this isn't about money. His team is terrible and they don't have a 1st or 2nd round pick to get better and to top it all off, they are over the cap already next season. You would want to leave that dumpster fire too if you were him.

His oline is one of the best in the game? His Oline gave up 273 pressures on the season, ours 272. We must have one of the best olines in the game too I guess.

You should really do some research instead of making snap judgements about a QB.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:29 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:11 pm
I wouldn't want the guy. He's a public cry baby. You don't want that on your team. Not sure what he is not happy about but it's probably money. These numbers get posted on websites but I don't know how they get them. Does the NFL as a trade association need to provide them. I doubt it. Do private firms or teams need to provide them? That I know they don't. So these are pie in the sky numbers posted by someone. I read Watson will get 39 million. I'm sure others have read a different number. I'll stick with the 39 million and he's unhappy for some reason. I wouldn't give a bag of pop corn for the cry baby. Right now he has one of the best O lines in the game. What till he gets behind a piece of crap line. Those numbers will go down. They do for all when the pressure is turned up. He needs to grow up before I would want him on our team. We get a new OC every year. I'm not sure how he would deal with that. Probably cry to the media again. A big no thanks.
Do you have any quotes from Watson demonstrating he is cry baby?

Watson is the 2nd highest paid QB in the NFL and wants to win, this isn't about money. His team is terrible and they don't have a 1st or 2nd round pick to get better and to top it all off, they are over the cap already next season. You would want to leave that dumpster fire too if you were him.

His oline is one of the best in the game? His Oline gave up 273 pressures on the season, ours 272. We must have one of the best olines in the game too I guess.

You should really do some research instead of making snap judgements about a QB.
Houston Pro Bowl tackle Laremy Tunsil. I don't think we have a pro bowl anything on the OL. Below is a link about OL class of south. I've never seen anything about our OL being the class of the north.
https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2020/05 ... afc-south/
I'm not looking up who their center or guards are but I would take them over the crap show we have sight unseen. But you claim it's even based on pressures.
Sources say Watson could play hardball with Texans about a trade. His new $156 million contract includes a no-trade clause but informed speculation from a source is that he would consider the @MiamiDolphins in which Tua Tagovailoa and additional compensation goes to Houston.

— Chris Mortensen (@mortreport) January 10, 2021

Breer explains that Mahomes “put in a strong word” for Bieniemy, which prompted Watson to push for Bieniemy. The Texans, who had said they’d consult with Watson, ignored Watson’s suggestion. And that undoubtedly has contributed to the consternation and frustration that Watson is currently feeling.
Watson thinks he should make the coaching decisions. I wouldn't want a guy like that on our team.

Maybe Watson should take a page from Rodgers book and lead a team into the playoffs and stop crying. The Texans have as much talent as the Packers. Neither is what I would call stacked from top to bottom. But it's not like the Pack has anything that has teams shaking beyond Rodgers.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:17 am
StumpHunter wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:29 pm
Do you have any quotes from Watson demonstrating he is cry baby?

Watson is the 2nd highest paid QB in the NFL and wants to win, this isn't about money. His team is terrible and they don't have a 1st or 2nd round pick to get better and to top it all off, they are over the cap already next season. You would want to leave that dumpster fire too if you were him.

His oline is one of the best in the game? His Oline gave up 273 pressures on the season, ours 272. We must have one of the best olines in the game too I guess.

You should really do some research instead of making snap judgements about a QB.
Houston Pro Bowl tackle Laremy Tunsil. I don't think we have a pro bowl anything on the OL. Below is a link about OL class of south. I've never seen anything about our OL being the class of the north.
https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2020/05 ... afc-south/
I'm not looking up who their center or guards are but I would take them over the crap show we have sight unseen. But you claim it's even based on pressures.
Sources say Watson could play hardball with Texans about a trade. His new $156 million contract includes a no-trade clause but informed speculation from a source is that he would consider the @MiamiDolphins in which Tua Tagovailoa and additional compensation goes to Houston.

— Chris Mortensen (@mortreport) January 10, 2021

Breer explains that Mahomes “put in a strong word” for Bieniemy, which prompted Watson to push for Bieniemy. The Texans, who had said they’d consult with Watson, ignored Watson’s suggestion. And that undoubtedly has contributed to the consternation and frustration that Watson is currently feeling.
Watson thinks he should make the coaching decisions. I wouldn't want a guy like that on our team.

Maybe Watson should take a page from Rodgers book and lead a team into the playoffs and stop crying. The Texans have as much talent as the Packers. Neither is what I would call stacked from top to bottom. But it's not like the Pack has anything that has teams shaking beyond Rodgers.
Tunsil is just one guy on a 5 man line and gave up twice as many sacks as our LT and only 2 fewer pressures. Also, your article from prior to training camp doesn't hold much water compared to the actual results of the season, where Watson's line gave up more pressures than the Vikings.

I asked for a quote of Watson being a "cry baby", and you come back with reports of him wanting to be traded from a terrible team and wanting input on his head coach? You don't think Rodgers gave input on who his new HC would be? He certainly had input about his old one.

The 4 win Houston Texans are as talented as the #1 seed in the NFC? They are certainly close at QB, but going down the position groups: Houston is deeper at WR, but doesn't have the top end guy that GB has, isn't close to being as good on Oline, isn't close to being as good at RB, isn't close to being as good in the secondary, isn't close on the D line, and isn't close at LBer. Outside of the WRs and QB, where is this talent on Houston?
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by YikesVikes »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:32 am
CharVike wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:17 am
Houston Pro Bowl tackle Laremy Tunsil. I don't think we have a pro bowl anything on the OL. Below is a link about OL class of south. I've never seen anything about our OL being the class of the north.
https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2020/05 ... afc-south/
I'm not looking up who their center or guards are but I would take them over the crap show we have sight unseen. But you claim it's even based on pressures.
Sources say Watson could play hardball with Texans about a trade. His new $156 million contract includes a no-trade clause but informed speculation from a source is that he would consider the @MiamiDolphins in which Tua Tagovailoa and additional compensation goes to Houston.

— Chris Mortensen (@mortreport) January 10, 2021

Breer explains that Mahomes “put in a strong word” for Bieniemy, which prompted Watson to push for Bieniemy. The Texans, who had said they’d consult with Watson, ignored Watson’s suggestion. And that undoubtedly has contributed to the consternation and frustration that Watson is currently feeling.
Watson thinks he should make the coaching decisions. I wouldn't want a guy like that on our team.

Maybe Watson should take a page from Rodgers book and lead a team into the playoffs and stop crying. The Texans have as much talent as the Packers. Neither is what I would call stacked from top to bottom. But it's not like the Pack has anything that has teams shaking beyond Rodgers.
Tunsil is just one guy on a 5 man line and gave up twice as many sacks as our LT and only 2 fewer pressures. Also, your article from prior to training camp doesn't hold much water compared to the actual results of the season, where Watson's line gave up more pressures than the Vikings.

I asked for a quote of Watson being a "cry baby", and you come back with reports of him wanting to be traded from a terrible team and wanting input on his head coach? You don't think Rodgers gave input on who his new HC would be? He certainly had input about his old one.

The 4 win Houston Texans are as talented as the #1 seed in the NFC? They are certainly close at QB, but going down the position groups: Houston is deeper at WR, but doesn't have the top end guy that GB has, isn't close to being as good on Oline, isn't close to being as good at RB, isn't close to being as good in the secondary, isn't close on the D line, and isn't close at LBer. Outside of the WRs and QB, where is this talent on Houston?
:confused: :confused:
I'm as confused as you.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by S197 »

CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:11 pm
cmoss84 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:15 am Not sure where to post this question. But how many of you would trade Cousins and Rieff (or? Barr?) for Deshaun Watson? He's not a happy fellow.
I wouldn't want the guy. He's a public cry baby. You don't want that on your team. Not sure what he is not happy about but it's probably money. These numbers get posted on websites but I don't know how they get them. Does the NFL as a trade association need to provide them. I doubt it. Do private firms or teams need to provide them? That I know they don't. So these are pie in the sky numbers posted by someone. I read Watson will get 39 million. I'm sure others have read a different number. I'll stick with the 39 million and he's unhappy for some reason. I wouldn't give a bag of pop corn for the cry baby. Right now he has one of the best O lines in the game. What till he gets behind a piece of crap line. Those numbers will go down. They do for all when the pressure is turned up. He needs to grow up before I would want him on our team. We get a new OC every year. I'm not sure how he would deal with that. Probably cry to the media again. A big no thanks.
The reason he's unhappy is because ownership told him he would have a say in the next GM and HC. They then proceeded to hire someone without taking any of his input and that's why he's unhappy. Now, you may say that a player doesn't have input on GM/HC positions and that's usually the case, but the Texans specifically told Watson he would have a say in the matter. So it's a very different situation than an ordinary guy overstepping his bounds.

Also, your comments about his contract confuse me. You seem to be alluding that no one knows how much he's making, which is absolutely false. It's well documented and public knowledge, you can find the breakdown here:

https://overthecap.com/player/deshaun-watson/5596/
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by CharVike »

S197 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:10 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:11 pm
I wouldn't want the guy. He's a public cry baby. You don't want that on your team. Not sure what he is not happy about but it's probably money. These numbers get posted on websites but I don't know how they get them. Does the NFL as a trade association need to provide them. I doubt it. Do private firms or teams need to provide them? That I know they don't. So these are pie in the sky numbers posted by someone. I read Watson will get 39 million. I'm sure others have read a different number. I'll stick with the 39 million and he's unhappy for some reason. I wouldn't give a bag of pop corn for the cry baby. Right now he has one of the best O lines in the game. What till he gets behind a piece of crap line. Those numbers will go down. They do for all when the pressure is turned up. He needs to grow up before I would want him on our team. We get a new OC every year. I'm not sure how he would deal with that. Probably cry to the media again. A big no thanks.
The reason he's unhappy is because ownership told him he would have a say in the next GM and HC. They then proceeded to hire someone without taking any of his input and that's why he's unhappy. Now, you may say that a player doesn't have input on GM/HC positions and that's usually the case, but the Texans specifically told Watson he would have a say in the matter. So it's a very different situation than an ordinary guy overstepping his bounds.

Also, your comments about his contract confuse me. You seem to be alluding that no one knows how much he's making, which is absolutely false. It's well documented and public knowledge, you can find the breakdown here:

https://overthecap.com/player/deshaun-watson/5596/
Thanks for clearing that up. Never thought an ownership group would tell a player they would have any say in the selection process for two important positions within the organization. Regardless I wouldn't want the guy. We need much more than a new QB. Unless that new QB was beyond Rodgers. This guy isn't that.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by VikingPaul73 »

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/307 ... pt-pay-cut

Well, looks like Rudolph is refusing to negotiate

With their current cap situation, they simply cannot pay Rudolph his current contract, and I don’t think he will get anything near it in FA

Hopefully they follow their heads and not their hearts, and release him.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingPaul73 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:43 am https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/307 ... pt-pay-cut

Well, looks like Rudolph is refusing to negotiate

With their current cap situation, they simply cannot pay Rudolph his current contract, and I don’t think he will get anything near it in FA

Hopefully they follow their heads and not their hearts, and release him.
This is interesting, isn't it?

Rudolph claims his production was down because the Vikings asked him to block so much, and he was a good soldier and worked hard on his blocking and did what he was asked.

Yet when he went down with injury, Smith and Conklin easily surpassed his production in the receiving department. They had 33 receptions after Rudolph went down with an injury compared to 26 for Rudolph for the entire season — 12 games played. And the running game didn't suffer at all without Rudolph.

Now for the dollars. Rudolph's 2021 cap hit is $9.45 million. Smith and Conklin TOGETHER are $2.6 million.

Other than being an icon in the community, Rudolph has no leverage here. So you're right ... hopefully the Vikings do the smart thing and not the heart thing.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by StumpHunter »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:15 am
VikingPaul73 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:43 am https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/307 ... pt-pay-cut

Well, looks like Rudolph is refusing to negotiate

With their current cap situation, they simply cannot pay Rudolph his current contract, and I don’t think he will get anything near it in FA

Hopefully they follow their heads and not their hearts, and release him.
This is interesting, isn't it?

Rudolph claims his production was down because the Vikings asked him to block so much, and he was a good soldier and worked hard on his blocking and did what he was asked.

Yet when he went down with injury, Smith and Conklin easily surpassed his production in the receiving department. They had 33 receptions after Rudolph went down with an injury compared to 26 for Rudolph for the entire season — 12 games played. And the running game didn't suffer at all without Rudolph.

Now for the dollars. Rudolph's 2021 cap hit is $9.45 million. Smith and Conklin TOGETHER are $2.6 million.

Other than being an icon in the community, Rudolph has no leverage here. So you're right ... hopefully the Vikings do the smart thing and not the heart thing.
Yeah, Rudy wasn't even good in the red zone this season, which was the only thing he was good at last season.

5th highest paid TE in the NFL, 22nd in yards among TEs through 13 weeks when he got hurt. 32nd in TDs.

Last year he was 25th in yards but at least made up a little bit for his lack of production outside the red zone with the 4th best 6 TDs among TEs.

But it isn't your fault Rudy, it is everyone else's. Good luck on your next team you clown.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

A little more about the Rudolph-Smith-Conklin comparison.

For the first 11 games of the season, when Rudolph played, here was the breakdown in targets.

Rudolph 37
Smith 21
Conklin 4

For the 5 games after Rudolph went down, the targets for tight ends was as follows.

Smith 22
Conklin 21

So for the first 11 games, Kirk Cousins threw to his tight ends a total of 62 times. That's 5.6 targets per game to tight ends.

Over the last 5 games, he threw to his tight ends 43 times. That's 8.6 targets per game to his tight ends.

Let's not forget, when Cousins was in Washington, he had a great tight end named Jordan Reed. Cousins loves throwing to tight ends, and since the Vikings employ a lot of 2-tight end sets, you'd think he'd continue that trend in Minnesota.

So ... was the uptick in throwing to tight ends over the last five games of the season because the Vikings' defense descended into the abyss and the Vikings were in constant shootouts? Or was it because Smith and Conklin can actually get separation?
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by StumpHunter »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:28 am A little more about the Rudolph-Smith-Conklin comparison.

For the first 11 games of the season, when Rudolph played, here was the breakdown in targets.

Rudolph 37
Smith 21
Conklin 4

For the 5 games after Rudolph went down, the targets for tight ends was as follows.

Smith 22
Conklin 21

So for the first 11 games, Kirk Cousins threw to his tight ends a total of 62 times. That's 5.6 targets per game to tight ends.

Over the last 5 games, he threw to his tight ends 43 times. That's 8.6 targets per game to his tight ends.

Let's not forget, when Cousins was in Washington, he had a great tight end named Jordan Reed. Cousins loves throwing to tight ends, and since the Vikings employ a lot of 2-tight end sets, you'd think he'd continue that trend in Minnesota.

So ... was the uptick in throwing to tight ends over the last five games of the season because the Vikings' defense descended into the abyss and the Vikings were in constant shootouts? Or was it because Smith and Conklin can actually get separation?
Rudy played 70% of the offensive snaps against Jacksonville in week 13 he just did absolutely nothing in that game.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by VikingPaul73 »

GREAT stats Kapp and Stump!!! Thanks for pulling that together and making the point perfectly clear- much appreciated

Release Rudolph and draft a TE in the 4th to go with Irv and Conklin.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by Maelstrom88 »

Rudy is definitely not anywhere close to worth the money he thinks he is. If I were in charge I'd cut him and try to trade up for Pitts. Pitts inside with JJ outside would be a nightmare for opposing defenses IF we had an actual modern offensive HC. Hire Bienemy and trade up with the Broncos at 9 for Pitts. Quit running a stone age offense in a space age league.
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Maelstrom88 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:21 pm Rudy is definitely not anywhere close to worth the money he thinks he is. If I were in charge I'd cut him and try to trade up for Pitts. Pitts inside with JJ outside would be a nightmare for opposing defenses IF we had an actual modern offensive HC. Hire Bienemy and trade up with the Broncos at 9 for Pitts. Quit running a stone age offense in a space age league.
I agree Rudy isnt worth the money, but trading up in the first round for a TE isnt the answer either. We have two solid TEs under contract for cheap. We have way too many needs to address in round 1
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Re: Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

Post by Maelstrom88 »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:37 am
Maelstrom88 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:21 pm Rudy is definitely not anywhere close to worth the money he thinks he is. If I were in charge I'd cut him and try to trade up for Pitts. Pitts inside with JJ outside would be a nightmare for opposing defenses IF we had an actual modern offensive HC. Hire Bienemy and trade up with the Broncos at 9 for Pitts. Quit running a stone age offense in a space age league.
I agree Rudy isnt worth the money, but trading up in the first round for a TE isnt the answer either. We have two solid TEs under contract for cheap. We have way too many needs to address in round 1
I'm just in love with his mismatch potential. Where would you like to see us go in round 1 atm?
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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