Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

[RandyMoss84]

No, honestly ... it's not.

Kansas City has been a playoff team 7 of the past 8 years.

The Patriots are missing the playoffs for the first time since 2008 and the second time since 2002.

The 49ers have been to the playoffs as much in the 2010s as the Vikings, with the difference being they've reached two Super Bowls.

The Saints have won six straight division titles.

The Pukers have missed the playoffs a total of six times in the past 27 years.

Mike Tomlin has been the coach of the Steelers since 2007. He has never had a losing season.

John Harbaugh has been coach of the Ravens since 2008. He has one losing season and is closing in on a 9th playoff trip.

These are examples of teams with great coaching.

As for the "stiff" Case Keenum, he finished top-10 in the 2017 MVP voting and was named by his peers to the list of Top-100 NFL players going into 2018 (Keenum finished 51st ... ahead of players like Xavier Rhodes and Stefon Diggs). While it's true he's been anything but an MVP-type player before or since, calling him a stiff for 2017 is far from accurate. Not coincidentally, the Vikings offense in 2017 was coached by Pat Shurmur, who has undoubtedly been our best OC under Zimmer.

Good coaching matters. We don't have it.

The stiff beat one team with a winning record in 2017 and it took a miracle for that to happen. He was far from a top QB in 2017. It was a feel good story. Elway found that out the hard way. Tomlin has had a HOF QB. Packers have had back to back HOF QBs. Bellichick had a HOF QB. Now that he don't he can't make the playoffs. The Saints have a HOF QB. HOF QBs don't grow on trees. They are hard to find. Every coach needs players. And to make the Super Bowl they need great players and most importantly a great QB. Jimmy Johnson found that out the hard way also. He went to the Dolphins and couldn't get them to the Super Bowl. That's with a HOF QB. I don't care if we move on from Zimmer. If Tomlin came here I don't see us as a Super Bowl favorite with him. We don't have that talent level. Especially on defense. Bring Eric B here. He better bring Mahomes with him. We don't become Super Bowl contenders with him. Our D isn't good enough and we don't have Rodgers at QB. Perhaps Eric B can build our D up. I don't know. Bring everybody in from KC that they can. They still need to find a top dog QB who plays for nothing. I don't see that in this draft with our projected pick or in FA. Maybe in 2022 or 23 or 24 ect..... When we started this rebuild this year many of us were happy with that fact that maybe we will get the 1st pick and this years stud QB. The kid looks like a great player. Well that won't happen now because we won some meaningless games. That hurt more than it helped. But you can't tell the team to lay down. Players won't do that. Bring in Eric send Kirk to the trash. Maybe we will make the Super Bowl in 2022.

Only chance Vikings will make a Super Bowl in 2022 if Zimmer is not head coach of Vikings

[CharVike]

The stiff beat one team with a winning record in 2017 and it took a miracle for that to happen. He was far from a top QB in 2017. It was a feel good story. Elway found that out the hard way. Tomlin has had a HOF QB. Packers have had back to back HOF QBs. Bellichick had a HOF QB. Now that he don't he can't make the playoffs. The Saints have a HOF QB. HOF QBs don't grow on trees. They are hard to find. Every coach needs players. And to make the Super Bowl they need great players and most importantly a great QB. Jimmy Johnson found that out the hard way also. He went to the Dolphins and couldn't get them to the Super Bowl. That's with a HOF QB. I don't care if we move on from Zimmer. If Tomlin came here I don't see us as a Super Bowl favorite with him. We don't have that talent level. Especially on defense. Bring Eric B here. He better bring Mahomes with him. We don't become Super Bowl contenders with him. Our D isn't good enough and we don't have Rodgers at QB. Perhaps Eric B can build our D up. I don't know. Bring everybody in from KC that they can. They still need to find a top dog QB who plays for nothing. I don't see that in this draft with our projected pick or in FA. Maybe in 2022 or 23 or 24 ect..... When we started this rebuild this year many of us were happy with that fact that maybe we will get the 1st pick and this years stud QB. The kid looks like a great player. Well that won't happen now because we won some meaningless games. That hurt more than it helped. But you can't tell the team to lay down. Players won't do that. Bring in Eric send Kirk to the trash. Maybe we will make the Super Bowl in 2022.

Only chance Vikings will make a Super Bowl in 2022 if Zimmer is not head coach of Vikings

I posted bring in Eric. He won't do it either. Not enough time to rebuild with his type of players.

[RandyMoss84]

Only chance Vikings will make a Super Bowl in 2022 if Zimmer is not head coach of Vikings

I posted bring in Eric. He won't do it either. Not enough time to rebuild with his type of players.

Not enough time? Zimmer rebuilt for 7 years, that is plenty of time, my mistake, I thought you were talking about Kendricks but I do not know about not enough time, look at Sean McVay, he took the Rams to the Superbowl in his 2nd year with his own players

[IIsweet]

You mention these teams with these HOF QBs as the successful teams. At what point do they, Zim and Rick, realize that Kirk isn't one of those guys? Why continue to restructure the guy and keep him here longer? Why draft sloths at the QB position every year instead of the foresight to take an athletic guy like a Jalen Hurts or Lamar Jackson or trade for a Tannehill or heck, maybe instead of always trading down, we move up and take an elite guy?
The game is evolving.
Cousins to me is a Batting Cage player. He is a cage monster, baseball terms. He is incredible in the small confines and a controlled environment, practice. When there is limited space and mechanics are prioritized. He looks great.
However, the game is played in a big space with tons of moving parts. You need to have feel and be able to anticipate.
Right now, we are not a good team. We have plenty of playmakers on offense to be elite. Why we struggle at the QB position is Zim and Rick's fault for not addressing the most important position in the game.

[Bowhunting Viking]

"The game is evolving.
Cousins to me is a Batting Cage player. He is a cage monster, baseball terms. He is incredible in the small confines and a controlled environment, practice. When there is limited space and mechanics are prioritized. He looks great.
However, the game is played in a big space with tons of moving parts. You need to have feel and be able to anticipate. "

[/quote]

That was a great analogy to describe Kirk. It's all well and good to be a phenomenal "practice " player. But how good are you when the guys on the other side of the ball are trying to blast you and punish you? How much improvising can you pull off to make something big happen.

I gotta be honest I was troubled to hear the reports that Kirk wasn't able to take things into his own hands when the communication in his helmet broke down and call a play on his own. How often do we see him audible and change plays at the line? Not often at all. Aikman and Buck commented that Zimmer said that they don't like to get the play in too early because it gets too confusing for Kirk at the line pre play. Are you F#$*@<g me??? A " SUPPOSED " NFL franchise QB who signs those contracts... and he gets confused at the line. WOW!!! That is very telling to me.

Like many here, I absolutely can't stand Erin. A total dickhead as far as a person IMHO. But.. BUT... there is no denying the type of QB the guy is and just how great he is for his team. Can you imagine him burning a time out because he can't hear the play in his ear? Getting confused at the line? I sure don't. Even the stuff he does to get extra yardage for the O. I truly can't see Kirk having the awareness to see that an opposing player is trotting off the field and calling for the snap to catch the D with too many players on the field. I have seen him do so many times, a way too many times for us. Hell even the way he seems to call for a flag to be thrown by the refs and all of a sudden there is laundry in the field. Won't happen with Kirk.

I was kinda excited when he first came. I really thought he may progress to the next level and take us deeper. And truthfully he has played better this year. Aikman has stressed in a few games that Kirk doesn't get the credit he deserves this year. Well, maybe. But how many here can honestly say that he is truly an elite high caliber QB who can out the team on his shoulders and inspire us to win?? Anybody?? I know you won't hear it from me.

That baseball analogy was great. My Bears fan best friend had another good one that hit home. He and I used to do alot of sparring and rolling in a local gym before it closed. All the regulars used to laugh about some of the guys who would come in for the first time making alot of noise, then doing some fighting, and then disappearing for good. Lol
My buddy compared Cousins to them. After the game he said " Ya know buddy Cousins is like the High School bad #### that come in to Velocity. They are really bad and tough whem picking on little guys , and then get exposed when they start throwing hands with big boys"

He is exactly right. It just seems like he is overwhelmed sometimes when things get going on the field.

He is an above average QB as far as the skill level goes, but doesn't translate that into elite QB play when we need it.

As usual... I say " Maybe in the Future ". But I am getting so sick of having to say that crap.

[CharVike]

You mention these teams with these HOF QBs as the successful teams. At what point do they, Zim and Rick, realize that Kirk isn't one of those guys? Why continue to restructure the guy and keep him here longer? Why draft sloths at the QB position every year instead of the foresight to take an athletic guy like a Jalen Hurts or Lamar Jackson or trade for a Tannehill or heck, maybe instead of always trading down, we move up and take an elite guy?
The game is evolving.
Cousins to me is a Batting Cage player. He is a cage monster, baseball terms. He is incredible in the small confines and a controlled environment, practice. When there is limited space and mechanics are prioritized. He looks great.
However, the game is played in a big space with tons of moving parts. You need to have feel and be able to anticipate.
Right now, we are not a good team. We have plenty of playmakers on offense to be elite. Why we struggle at the QB position is Zim and Rick's fault for not addressing the most important position in the game.

You act like there have never been any running QBs in NFL history. Steve Young was the best and he was a great passer alo. This isn't an evolution it's been there forever. RG III is still available. He can't pass at the level needed. But he can run with the best. Everyone knows Kirk will not be a HOFer. I don't see a HOFer in this draft. I'd like to have Rodgers because I think he's the best in the NFC and he isn't a runner either. The Pack wont trade him because he can carry the team. Rick drafted Bridgewater. It was a miss. I think Cousins is the best we have had since Fran. Others think he's a bum. Other teams were after Cousins. We can win with Cousins. But we can't win with our current defense. We are rebuilding the D and if Hunter is done, which is probably the case, we need a stud passer rusher now. Who is that? There's nothing in FA because teams don't let young stud pass rushers leave their teams. IMO this year has one stud QB in the draft and he will go pick no 1. The rest of the group I wouldn't pick in an early round. The guy from FL is getting the build up. They say his arm has improved. A year ago his arm wasn't an NFL arm. How did that change in one year? It's hype. I wouldn't touch the guy from ohio st with a ten foot pole. He hates competition and he struggles big time when under pressure. Guess what? That's what the NFL is. Some other team can have them. I was pissed when Speilman passed on Lock. He was right because the guy blows. Elway missed. But he took a swing. Elway gave Case a fortune. At least Speilman told him to hit the road. The NFL needs QBs big time. That's always the case. If you go with a runner QB you better have a few of them. Sooner or later they will get knocked out. The press writes that the NFL is evolving. Just look at the last 10 NFC Super Bowl QBs. Very few if any were / are great runners or athletes. Including Jimmy G and the guy from the Rams or N Foles. Mahomes is the guy. They don't come out every year. He can do it all. Tell us who the next Mahomes is. I don't see it in this years draft.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

You know, I don't get all of the negative focus on Cousins. Up until this year, I was on the side of "We'll never win with Cousins". But he really changed my mind this year. I agree that he's not the ultimate QB, but there is SO much more to worry about with this team right now. The subject of the topic is about Zimmer, but eventually it always turns around to Cousins negativity.

I do think we can win with Cousins. I no longer think we can win with Zimmer. I read all kinds of speculations about how he has lost the team, and other conjecture. I don't know about that. I can only judge him on what I see with my own eyes. I don't care how good of a team you have...there will always be a few games in a year that are going to be close, hard fought games. You will most likely have at least one of these types of games in the playoffs. You're only going to win these games if you paly mistake-free football AND if your coach doesn't throw an obstacle out in front of you on the field. I have heard time and time again coaches say "It's my job to put the players in he best position to succeed". Well, Zimmer doesn't do that. They often come into games with game plans, or he makes game decisions that actually make it MORE DIFFICULT to succeed. As a team, you can't continue to win in spite of a coach that makes stupid decisions that you must now overcome. But you'll never hear him say in the post game press conference anything like "Looking back, I shouldn't have gone for it on 4th & 1 from our OWN 35, in the FIRST HALF, when we were only down by 10." No...instead you'll hear him blame the defense, or not executing, or whatever.

Honestly, I'm tired of the guy. He reminds me of a local high school coach in our area, that believes that when they win, it's because he's a great coach but when they lose, it's the players fault. I don't think he has faith in any QB. I don't believe that the reason Cousins didn't call his own play when the headphones weren't working was because of Cousins failing. I believe it's because Zimmer has told Cousins that "You call the play WE tell you to call." I remember when Belichick was with Cleveland, and Kosar called an audible and threw a TD pass. When Kosar came to the sidelines, Belichick grabbed him by the face mask and yanked his head around because he didn't use the play that he called. That's the way I see Zimmer too.

Maybe I'm the one that's presuming too much right now, but that's the way I see it. I'm not down on Spielman because I think he has given Zimmer plenty to win with over the years but Zimmer couldn't get it done. The only thing I will give him is that he has a good defensive mind, but even his defenses are overrated in my opinion. It doesn't matter how much of a defensive genius you are if you can't get the players to understand or execute.

All this said, I'm willing to give the guy ONE more chance. Next year, with a healthier team, and a full year under the belt of his young players, we'll see what he can do. I predict...more of the same.

[allday1991]

You mention these teams with these HOF QBs as the successful teams. At what point do they, Zim and Rick, realize that Kirk isn't one of those guys? Why continue to restructure the guy and keep him here longer? Why draft sloths at the QB position every year instead of the foresight to take an athletic guy like a Jalen Hurts or Lamar Jackson or trade for a Tannehill or heck, maybe instead of always trading down, we move up and take an elite guy?
The game is evolving.
Cousins to me is a Batting Cage player. He is a cage monster, baseball terms. He is incredible in the small confines and a controlled environment, practice. When there is limited space and mechanics are prioritized. He looks great.
However, the game is played in a big space with tons of moving parts. You need to have feel and be able to anticipate.
Right now, we are not a good team. We have plenty of playmakers on offense to be elite. Why we struggle at the QB position is Zim and Rick's fault for not addressing the most important position in the game.

Funny you mention this, almost every Steelers fan I've talked to doesn't like Big Ben, I always give them this crazy look like he has won you two superbowls. But nope they dont like him cause he holds on to the ball to long, he's injuried to much etc. Funny how fan bases are.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Not a contract guru here, but Alex signed a 4 year 94M contract with 71M guaranteed, 24M a year, the same year Washington wouldn't but Minny did pay Kirk a 3 year 84M contract? Most Washington fans were furious they wouldn't pay Kirk 28M but did pay captain checkdown 24M and gave up picks and players to do it. Now a lot of that is Brucifer Allen's doing, but nevertheless, the choice is have a chump QB or pay a good one too much.

You are leaving out the option to draft a really good rookie and pay him pennies compared to what Cousins makes.

Besides, what exactly is overpaying Kirk versus settling for a Fitz or Keenum getting us right now? A lesser team around the QB and absolutely no hope is all I am seeing.

That's an option if you can identify the "really good rookie" and be in position to get him. I'm still not sure who we haven't been able to get or keep as a result of Kirk's salary.

[IIsweet]

Actually CharVike... you couldn't be more wrong on your assumption of me. There have always been running athletic QBs and I have always been a proponent for one. I loved Randall Cunningham,Jeff George had a cannon but could move around a little, Favre moved at 63 years old for us, Culpepper would run when needed. We need an athletic QB when our OL is poor. Moving the pocket, rolling out,scrambling, and extending plays that allowed to get into space. Also keeps the defense leery of about tucking it and running.
I prefer us taking an athletic QB instead of the Mannion, Stanley, sloth type.
I WANT the athlete named Hurts, Jackson, etc.

[J. Kapp 11]

No, honestly ... it's not.

Kansas City has been a playoff team 7 of the past 8 years.

The Patriots are missing the playoffs for the first time since 2008 and the second time since 2002.

The 49ers have been to the playoffs as much in the 2010s as the Vikings, with the difference being they've reached two Super Bowls.

The Saints have won six straight division titles.

The Pukers have missed the playoffs a total of six times in the past 27 years.

Mike Tomlin has been the coach of the Steelers since 2007. He has never had a losing season.

John Harbaugh has been coach of the Ravens since 2008. He has one losing season and is closing in on a 9th playoff trip.

These are examples of teams with great coaching.

As for the "stiff" Case Keenum, he finished top-10 in the 2017 MVP voting and was named by his peers to the list of Top-100 NFL players going into 2018 (Keenum finished 51st ... ahead of players like Xavier Rhodes and Stefon Diggs). While it's true he's been anything but an MVP-type player before or since, calling him a stiff for 2017 is far from accurate. Not coincidentally, the Vikings offense in 2017 was coached by Pat Shurmur, who has undoubtedly been our best OC under Zimmer.

Good coaching matters. We don't have it.

The stiff beat one team with a winning record in 2017 and it took a miracle for that to happen. He was far from a top QB in 2017. It was a feel good story. Elway found that out the hard way. Tomlin has had a HOF QB. Packers have had back to back HOF QBs. Bellichick had a HOF QB. Now that he don't he can't make the playoffs. The Saints have a HOF QB. HOF QBs don't grow on trees. They are hard to find. Every coach needs players. And to make the Super Bowl they need great players and most importantly a great QB. Jimmy Johnson found that out the hard way also. He went to the Dolphins and couldn't get them to the Super Bowl. That's with a HOF QB. I don't care if we move on from Zimmer. If Tomlin came here I don't see us as a Super Bowl favorite with him. We don't have that talent level. Especially on defense. Bring Eric B here. He better bring Mahomes with him. We don't become Super Bowl contenders with him. Our D isn't good enough and we don't have Rodgers at QB. Perhaps Eric B can build our D up. I don't know. Bring everybody in from KC that they can. They still need to find a top dog QB who plays for nothing. I don't see that in this draft with our projected pick or in FA. Maybe in 2022 or 23 or 24 ect..... When we started this rebuild this year many of us were happy with that fact that maybe we will get the 1st pick and this years stud QB. The kid looks like a great player. Well that won't happen now because we won some meaningless games. That hurt more than it helped. But you can't tell the team to lay down. Players won't do that. Bring in Eric send Kirk to the trash. Maybe we will make the Super Bowl in 2022.

Seriously man, you should look things up before you cite facts.

In addition to the New Orleans win in the playoffs, the 2017 Vikings also beat the Lions (9-7), the Ravens (9-7), the Falcons (10-6) and the Rams (11-5). That’s five total wins against teams with winning records. Three of those wins were on the road.

[CharVike]

The stiff beat one team with a winning record in 2017 and it took a miracle for that to happen. He was far from a top QB in 2017. It was a feel good story. Elway found that out the hard way. Tomlin has had a HOF QB. Packers have had back to back HOF QBs. Bellichick had a HOF QB. Now that he don't he can't make the playoffs. The Saints have a HOF QB. HOF QBs don't grow on trees. They are hard to find. Every coach needs players. And to make the Super Bowl they need great players and most importantly a great QB. Jimmy Johnson found that out the hard way also. He went to the Dolphins and couldn't get them to the Super Bowl. That's with a HOF QB. I don't care if we move on from Zimmer. If Tomlin came here I don't see us as a Super Bowl favorite with him. We don't have that talent level. Especially on defense. Bring Eric B here. He better bring Mahomes with him. We don't become Super Bowl contenders with him. Our D isn't good enough and we don't have Rodgers at QB. Perhaps Eric B can build our D up. I don't know. Bring everybody in from KC that they can. They still need to find a top dog QB who plays for nothing. I don't see that in this draft with our projected pick or in FA. Maybe in 2022 or 23 or 24 ect..... When we started this rebuild this year many of us were happy with that fact that maybe we will get the 1st pick and this years stud QB. The kid looks like a great player. Well that won't happen now because we won some meaningless games. That hurt more than it helped. But you can't tell the team to lay down. Players won't do that. Bring in Eric send Kirk to the trash. Maybe we will make the Super Bowl in 2022.

Seriously man, you should look things up before you cite facts.

In addition to the New Orleans win in the playoffs, the 2017 Vikings also beat the Lions (9-7), the Ravens (9-7), the Falcons (10-6) and the Rams (11-5). That’s five total wins against teams with winning records. Three of those wins were on the road.

You're correct I posted the wrong info. I thought I did look it up. It's not that hard. Maybe I saw what I wanted to see. I'll be more careful in the future. Thanks for your time and providing the correct info.

[CharVike]

Actually CharVike... you couldn't be more wrong on your assumption of me. There have always been running athletic QBs and I have always been a proponent for one. I loved Randall Cunningham,Jeff George had a cannon but could move around a little, Favre moved at 63 years old for us, Culpepper would run when needed. We need an athletic QB when our OL is poor. Moving the pocket, rolling out,scrambling, and extending plays that allowed to get into space. Also keeps the defense leery of about tucking it and running.
I prefer us taking an athletic QB instead of the Mannion, Stanley, sloth type.
I WANT the athlete named Hurts, Jackson, etc.

I've seen Cousins tuck it and run for 1st downs. From a QB I want the passing skills. If they can run some that's great also. Gannon was an athletic guy who needed to work on his passing skills. We let him go and he led a team to the Super Bowl. We kept Cunningham over Johnson. Johnson led a team to the Super Bowl. Johnson had some mobility. Johnson played on the Florida State basketball team and started 11 games as a freshman. So he was an athletic guy. Bottom line if they get rid of Zimmer it wouldn't bother me. He had his shot and at this point based on history he probably won't get us to the Super Bowl. I've been watching/following for 50 years and have been waiting for that franchise QB and return to the show. I don't even know what they should do at this point. We look to be a long way off at this point. Especially when having to beat out Rodgers for the next 5 to 8 years just to win the division. Maybe new leadership from top to bottom is the answer.

[Frozen Rope]

You are leaving out the option to draft a really good rookie and pay him pennies compared to what Cousins makes.

Besides, what exactly is overpaying Kirk versus settling for a Fitz or Keenum getting us right now? A lesser team around the QB and absolutely no hope is all I am seeing.

That's an option if you can identify the "really good rookie" and be in position to get him. I'm still not sure who we haven't been able to get or keep as a result of Kirk's salary.

I got it FSL. Dwayne Haskins!

[RandyMoss84]

That's an option if you can identify the "really good rookie" and be in position to get him. I'm still not sure who we haven't been able to get or keep as a result of Kirk's salary.

I got it FSL. Dwayne Haskins!

Dwayne Haskins is garbage, have you seen him play today?