Tell me again how Zimmer is a great coach?

[J. Kapp 11]

This is hard. I was ecstatic when we hired Mike Zimmer. And after Year 2, I really thought we finally had our Super Bowl coach.

But something happened. I don't know whether it was the terrible injury to Bridgewater and the panic that followed, or what it is. There just seems to be a cloud hanging over this regime, a pall. The Vikings can be pretty good at times, even dominant, but not consistent enough to be great. I thought maybe we had it going in the right direction in 2017, even with the blowout at Philly. Honestly, I didn't expect more than 8 or 9 wins, so when we won 13, it was so awesome. Such a fun season. Case Keenum, this undrafted nobody who has had zero success before or since, was in the MVP conversation. Dalvin Cook went down, yet we ended up being one of the best rushing offenses in the NFL. But at the same time, you had a coach who refused to give his QB credit, even when he was outstanding. And for all the Vikings' immense defensive talent, they fell apart in the second half against New Orleans and from the git-go against Philly.

Fast forward to now. Truth is, I've lost faith in Zimmer's ability to get this team over the hump. Some say his caustic personality rubs players the wrong way. But I think it's his philosophy. This whole "defense first, run the ball, use the clock, wear down the other team, mix in just enough passing to keep the other team honest" philosophy was fine for early 1990s Dallas, but it simply doesn't work anymore. At least not consistently. It worked for New England two years ago, and it worked for Denver in 2015. But both of those teams had generational defenses. Beyond that, Super Bowl winners have explosive offenses. They can score on anybody.

Under Zimmer, this team has expended vast amounts of draft capital on defense. It's been completely unbalanced, and the frustrating part is that much of it hasn't panned out. This has especially hurt the offensive line. We've been blessed to have some amazing skill position players over the past four years, but the line has been so bad that we simply can't maximize them. Keenum succeeded because he could escape. But having a replacement-level quarterback who can pull rabbits out of his hat is an unsustainable way to run an offense.

In hindsight, I actually understand the Cousins signing — given Zimmer's philosophy. Many saw him as a stat monster who could carry a talented (at the time) roster over the top, but that's not what he is at all. Cousins is a top-level game manager. He's an accurate, well-prepared, accountable quarterback with above average arm talent. He'll give you competent QB play, which is all Zimmer wants. But what he doesn't have is the sixth sense to escape pressure the way Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, and others do. He doesn't have the "it" factor. And he gets scared. When you get to him early and regularly, he starts to see the rush instead of feeling it. So you HAVE to protect him. You can't put a substandard O-line in front of a guy like Kirk Cousins. The Zimmer philosophy has set up Cousins for failure.

As for this year, yes, Zimmer had to deal with Covid and no OTAs and no preseason, etc. But y'know, so did everybody else. No excuses, Zimmer.

So ... doesn't Rick Spielman deserve blame? Sure. But of all the GMs I've ever seen, Spielman seems to be the most influenced by his coach. This team is created in Zimmer's image. It's Zimmer's desire to run 60% of the time. It's Zimmer's desire to spend high draft pick after high draft pick on corners, and many of them either don't pan out. Even this year ... who's been better? The first-rounder Gladney or the third-rounder Dantzler? I don't think there's any doubt it's Dantzler. What if we'd spent that other first-round pick on a guard? Or a defensive tackle? Look, I like how Gladney competes, but he's not really playing better than replacement level. As they say, 15 weeks into the season, you're not a rookie anymore.

OK, so to my mind, if they fire Spielman, I won't be upset. I just want the Vikings to move into 2021. Spielman is a puppet. He does whatever the coach wants. That's what he's been doing since Zimmer got here. So if he can hire a good coach with a winning philosophy, and acquire players who fit that philosophy, then I'm fine with keeping him. Fire him, don't fire him. I don't care. The coach is what I want.

That being said, the Vikings need to get out there and hire Eric Bieniemy. This guy has been learning under Andy Reid (the Reid tree produces good fruit) and he's VERY highly thought of as a head coaching candidate. Yes, the Chiefs are loaded, and it could be said that anybody could coach them. But they were a perennial playoff team even when Alex Smith was QB. Bieniemy is also an ex-Vikings position coach, so he knows the fan culture of the Vikings. He'd be perfect for this franchise.

I don't know how long it would take for Bieniemy to turn this careening bus around, but with his offensive acumen, I have to believe it would be fairly quick.

After defending Zimmer for almost 7 years, I'm ready for him to be gone. Fire them both. It was a nice try. It failed.

[Bowhunting Viking]

Kapp EXCELLENT post. You hit the nail on the head with every point that you made. I would definitely be very happy if we were to hire Bienemy.

They always talk about how he is no nonsense and very much a discipline guy. But he also is very much in tune with his players. He isn't the rule with an iron fist and make the players do what he wants out if fear. He gets th he most out if the players , and earns their trust because of the respect that they have for him, and his work ethic and dedication. I have seen several stories on him where they talk about how he rarely sleeps because he is always thinking of new plays and schemes. The guy loves the game for sure. And the players really seem to love playing for him, and the respect they have for him drives them to do everything they can and play their butts off for him.

Unfortunately I don't think it is gonna happen. We are more than likely gonna continue to be a Zimmer/ Spielman regime. And I am now to the point that I truly mean UNFORTUNATELY!

[makila]

Yeah good post Kapp. Agree with all of it. Time to move on. Also like him as a target as discussed on here prior.

[StanM]

Well, it could always be worse. I have been on this roller coaster since day one in 1961. I doubt that I’m going to ever see that super bowl win.

[VikingPaul73]

Great post Kapp!!
The only point I am not sure on is the run first philosophy. I think it COULD work provided the HC and GM were on the same page and implemented that philosophy consistently

Case in point - Kirk Cousins. If you want a game manager why pay big $$? Draft a Qb in the early rounds and open a 4 year window . Pick up a guy similar to Alex Smith on a reasonable deal. Do something at qb OTHER THAN paying elite $ for a good but not great qb if you are going to be a run 1st team. I don’t want to start another Cousins argument because the point I’m trying to make is not about Cousins . It’s about properly allocating resources to best fit your system

My biggest issue with Zimmer’s philosophy is on defense. He like to focus on the back end with great cover corners . I would prefer to focus on defensive line and pressuring the QB and have corners that are decent enough but not necessarily lock down. When was the last time we had a 3 tech that could pressure the QB? Consistent pressure especially up the middle is how you win in the playoffs!!!

With Rick I was ready to move on a couple of years ago. This last draft has given me pause since it looks SOOOO promising . But you are right, he seems to be bullied by Zimmer. Is he just deferring his picks to zimmer and kubiak?? Seriously how many picks do we say “that’s a Zimmer pick” or “ that’s a Kubiak pick” vs “that’s a spielman pick”??? I can’t think of what a “Spielman pick “ would even mean? What’s his philosophy defensive or offensive??? His only signature pick is a non-pick and trading down

And I get that this might sound contradictory "GM and HC not on same page; GM defers his picks to HC". But digging a little deeper:
1. Rick seems more comfortable going on his own (ex Cousins) in FA than the draft.
2. Too much OC turnover. Norv Turner wanted guys for his system, Kubiak for his, etc. Now we're drafting for zone blocking, 2TE sets, run 1st, etc.....but how long before we have an OC with a different scheme? There is no consistency because the HC just wants to completely hand over the O to the OC of the year

[VikingPaul73]

Or “ that’s a Patterson pick”

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

It's the day after, and I'm even more upset about the decision to go for it on 4th down at your own 35. I can't get over this call. Think about the risk / reward for this decision. What's the reward? A first down at your own 35? So what! Now you still have 65 more yards you need for a TD. Heck, you're not even guaranteed another first down. What's the risk? We witnessed it. The other team is already in FG range, and you actually allow them a chance to score another TD before halftime.

It was an idiotic decision and I'm sick and tired of a coach the refuses to learn from his own mistakes. He has done this at least three times this year and it's backfired.

This might sound crazy, but I'm still willing to give this staff / team another chance next year, but if they don't at least go deep into the playoffs, I'm done. Time to clean house after that. I'm so frustrated I want to scream.

[chicagopurple]

Just like the rest of the league, he was terrified by the Bears juggernaut of an offense.....lolol
Pretty sad when you cant trust your defense to contain a clown like Trubitsky when the game is on the line...yeah he is a real defensive guru!
Zim is just a stubborn pig headed dinosaur. His next trick is gonna be when he makes JJ disappear......POOF

[halfgiz]

Zimmer's no head coach,he's proven that in important games...He needs to go back to defense coordinator or retire.

[StumpHunter]

The HC, GM and QB are all in the same category.

You could do a lot worse than each of them, but all three have proven to not be good enough at their jobs that you shouldn't be looking for better.

As long they are on the team, the team will be better than the garbage teams in the NFL, and worse than the truly elite teams. They will occasionally beat a Saints team in the playoffs to advance, only to eventually run into a team that is much better than they are that they can't even compete against in Philly and SF.

There is a good chance you move on from them and you take a step back. A really good chance in fact. It is a chance you have to take if you ever want to win it all though. The Vikings will never get the next Mahomes, Lynch or Bellicheck sticking with what they have.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

G
Case in point - Kirk Cousins. If you want a game manager why pay big $$? Draft a Qb in the early rounds and open a 4 year window . Pick up a guy similar to Alex Smith on a reasonable deal. Do something at qb OTHER THAN paying elite $ for a good but not great qb if you are going to be a run 1st team. I don’t want to start another Cousins argument because the point I’m trying to make is not about Cousins . It’s about properly allocating resources to best fit your system

Guys like Alex Smith don't get reasonable deals. He makes reasonably close to what Kirk makes. You want a reasonable deal QB, you get Case, Fitz, Tyrod Taylor. There is nothing reasonable about a good QBs deal. So yeah, if you want to run and ball control and don't care if your QB does much but hand off and throw screens, then those are your guys. They will still get 20 M if they start.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

The HC, GM and QB are all in the same category.

You could do a lot worse than each of them, but all three have proven to not be good enough at their jobs that you shouldn't be looking for better.

As long they are on the team, the team will be better than the garbage teams in the NFL, and worse than the truly elite teams. They will occasionally beat a Saints team in the playoffs to advance, only to eventually run into a team that is much better than they are that they can't even compete against in Philly and SF.

There is a good chance you move on from them and you take a step back. A really good chance in fact. It is a chance you have to take if you ever want to win it all though. The Vikings will never get the next Mahomes, Lynch or Bellicheck sticking with what they have.

None of this is wrong, but most people believe in what they are building, I would think. So blowing a good/close thing up to try to hit Yahtzee!!! is not a strategy most will try. You blow it up when there is no hope. So I don't see them doing it.

[S197]

G
Case in point - Kirk Cousins. If you want a game manager why pay big $$? Draft a Qb in the early rounds and open a 4 year window . Pick up a guy similar to Alex Smith on a reasonable deal. Do something at qb OTHER THAN paying elite $ for a good but not great qb if you are going to be a run 1st team. I don’t want to start another Cousins argument because the point I’m trying to make is not about Cousins . It’s about properly allocating resources to best fit your system

Guys like Alex Smith don't get reasonable deals. He makes reasonably close to what Kirk makes. You want a reasonable deal QB, you get Case, Fitz, Tyrod Taylor. There is nothing reasonable about a good QBs deal. So yeah, if you want to run and ball control and don't care if your QB does much but hand off and throw screens, then those are your guys. They will still get 20 M if they start.

He makes nowhere near what Kirk makes. You could almost get two Alex Smith's for what we're going to be paying Kirk. He has zero guaranteed salary next year and in 2022 but even if he did, he's still $20 million cheaper than Cousins in 2022.

[CharVike]

This is hard. I was ecstatic when we hired Mike Zimmer. And after Year 2, I really thought we finally had our Super Bowl coach.

But something happened. I don't know whether it was the terrible injury to Bridgewater and the panic that followed, or what it is. There just seems to be a cloud hanging over this regime, a pall. The Vikings can be pretty good at times, even dominant, but not consistent enough to be great. I thought maybe we had it going in the right direction in 2017, even with the blowout at Philly. Honestly, I didn't expect more than 8 or 9 wins, so when we won 13, it was so awesome. Such a fun season. Case Keenum, this undrafted nobody who has had zero success before or since, was in the MVP conversation. Dalvin Cook went down, yet we ended up being one of the best rushing offenses in the NFL. But at the same time, you had a coach who refused to give his QB credit, even when he was outstanding. And for all the Vikings' immense defensive talent, they fell apart in the second half against New Orleans and from the git-go against Philly.

Fast forward to now. Truth is, I've lost faith in Zimmer's ability to get this team over the hump. Some say his caustic personality rubs players the wrong way. But I think it's his philosophy. This whole "defense first, run the ball, use the clock, wear down the other team, mix in just enough passing to keep the other team honest" philosophy was fine for early 1990s Dallas, but it simply doesn't work anymore. At least not consistently. It worked for New England two years ago, and it worked for Denver in 2015. But both of those teams had generational defenses. Beyond that, Super Bowl winners have explosive offenses. They can score on anybody.

Under Zimmer, this team has expended vast amounts of draft capital on defense. It's been completely unbalanced, and the frustrating part is that much of it hasn't panned out. This has especially hurt the offensive line. We've been blessed to have some amazing skill position players over the past four years, but the line has been so bad that we simply can't maximize them. Keenum succeeded because he could escape. But having a replacement-level quarterback who can pull rabbits out of his hat is an unsustainable way to run an offense.

In hindsight, I actually understand the Cousins signing — given Zimmer's philosophy. Many saw him as a stat monster who could carry a talented (at the time) roster over the top, but that's not what he is at all. Cousins is a top-level game manager. He's an accurate, well-prepared, accountable quarterback with above average arm talent. He'll give you competent QB play, which is all Zimmer wants. But what he doesn't have is the sixth sense to escape pressure the way Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, and others do. He doesn't have the "it" factor. And he gets scared. When you get to him early and regularly, he starts to see the rush instead of feeling it. So you HAVE to protect him. You can't put a substandard O-line in front of a guy like Kirk Cousins. The Zimmer philosophy has set up Cousins for failure.

As for this year, yes, Zimmer had to deal with Covid and no OTAs and no preseason, etc. But y'know, so did everybody else. No excuses, Zimmer.

So ... doesn't Rick Spielman deserve blame? Sure. But of all the GMs I've ever seen, Spielman seems to be the most influenced by his coach. This team is created in Zimmer's image. It's Zimmer's desire to run 60% of the time. It's Zimmer's desire to spend high draft pick after high draft pick on corners, and many of them either don't pan out. Even this year ... who's been better? The first-rounder Gladney or the third-rounder Dantzler? I don't think there's any doubt it's Dantzler. What if we'd spent that other first-round pick on a guard? Or a defensive tackle? Look, I like how Gladney competes, but he's not really playing better than replacement level. As they say, 15 weeks into the season, you're not a rookie anymore.

OK, so to my mind, if they fire Spielman, I won't be upset. I just want the Vikings to move into 2021. Spielman is a puppet. He does whatever the coach wants. That's what he's been doing since Zimmer got here. So if he can hire a good coach with a winning philosophy, and acquire players who fit that philosophy, then I'm fine with keeping him. Fire him, don't fire him. I don't care. The coach is what I want.

That being said, the Vikings need to get out there and hire Eric Bieniemy. This guy has been learning under Andy Reid (the Reid tree produces good fruit) and he's VERY highly thought of as a head coaching candidate. Yes, the Chiefs are loaded, and it could be said that anybody could coach them. But they were a perennial playoff team even when Alex Smith was QB. Bieniemy is also an ex-Vikings position coach, so he knows the fan culture of the Vikings. He'd be perfect for this franchise.

I don't know how long it would take for Bieniemy to turn this careening bus around, but with his offensive acumen, I have to believe it would be fairly quick.

After defending Zimmer for almost 7 years, I'm ready for him to be gone. Fire them both. It was a nice try. It failed.

There's many ways to win games. Last year the 49ers attempted 8 passes in the championship game. I don't think Dallas ever did that. We played that same team and Cook avg 2 yards a pop in the div game. It's hard to win that way. Of course our passing game didn't work and the same thing happened to Rodgers. The 49ers were hot and took over the LOS. They had a backup bum RB run for over 200 yards against the Pack D. Pounding the ball can get you there. I like having balance. But you need to be able to play strong defense. Without that you don't have much of a chance. At this point I don't see a change coming. But if it happens it happens. Clean house and start over I guess. Then it's back to getting a decent QB. That could take a year or never.

[CharVike]

Guys like Alex Smith don't get reasonable deals. He makes reasonably close to what Kirk makes. You want a reasonable deal QB, you get Case, Fitz, Tyrod Taylor. There is nothing reasonable about a good QBs deal. So yeah, if you want to run and ball control and don't care if your QB does much but hand off and throw screens, then those are your guys. They will still get 20 M if they start.

He makes nowhere near what Kirk makes. You could almost get two Alex Smith's for what we're going to be paying Kirk. He has zero guaranteed salary next year and in 2022 but even if he did, he's still $20 million cheaper than Cousins in 2022.

Jimmy G gets guaranteed coin and attempted 8 passes in the champ game last year. I don't think Kirk has ever attempted 8 passes in a big game. Jimmy has a real ground approach and it still cost big money. Cousins deal has not cost us any players. We didn't cut any stars. I would like a big time pass rusher or ballhawk saftey. But those type of players don't hit FA. Like our guy Hunter. He's still here making bucks. They wouldn't cut a player like that or let him walk. Saints always work the CAP regardless of old man Brees hit.