Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

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Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:06 pm

Yesterday's game was hard to watch but I must say that I excepted to lose this game to the Packers. I think us fans are in for a rude awakening about just where this team is talent wise. We will be competitive this season but I don't know if we will be a playoff team.
Anyway....

Good: Despite Aaron's big day, our young corners seemed up to the task. They weren't great but they filled me with hope for the future. Given enough time, these guys are going to be good players.

Bad: The offensive flow. I am baffled by the score. Close to half time the score was 8-7. How did we end up in a high octane shootout? Even with the amount of points we put up the game never felt close. We are really going to miss our fans at home. Having home games essentially being neutral gounds is really going to hurt us.

Ugly: The amount of time Rogers had to throw. In fact, I can't remember many plays made behind the line of scrimmage in the run or pass game. This points to use not winning at the LOS. It's going to be a long season if our Oline gets dominate but we are unable to dominate at LOS
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by S197 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:54 pm

I think the good was predominantly Thielen and Kendricks. Cousins noticeably made an effort to move around in the pocket a lot more. It wasn't very pretty at times, but it got the job done.

I'll change bad to the disappointing. I think offensively, it was difficult to see no one really step up besides Thielen and Cook. We spent a 2nd on Irv Smith and I still don't understand how they're intending on utilizing him. Bisi didn't do anything until the game was out of reach. Sharpe had one ball thrown his way, that honestly shouldn't have been thrown. Jefferson, we'll see. He looked like he had a drop on 2nd down (was tough to tell with FOX's horrendous angles on everything) but he did look very fluid on that catch over the middle.

The ugly to me was the gameplan and lack of adjustments. You have young corners so you stick them on islands with no safety help over the top? Then Barr comes out saying they were hesitant to blitz because Rodgers is quick striking them. So what exactly was the plan? A base nickel? The defense looked like they were in preseason mode where all the calls are vanilla because you don't want to show your hand. I really don't get it.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:18 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:06 pm
Ugly: The amount of time Rogers had to throw. In fact, I can't remember many plays made behind the line of scrimmage in the run or pass game. This points to use not winning at the LOS. It's going to be a long season if our Oline gets dominate but we are unable to dominate at LOS
I think it felt like Rodgers has all day because he was so quick with his decisions whereas Cousins always takes forever.
Time to Throw measurement (TTT) Cousins was measured at 2.91s per att (5th in league), while Rodgers was ranked tied for 17th at 2.59s. Whether it's his physical limitations, playcalling, or the poor WRs the Vikings have, Cousins took much more time to throw than Rodgers. And this is a measurement, not a stat.


My good: Uh, Kendricks was all over the field. Thielen looking good. Mattison was running well.

Bad: Run D. Hard to put pressure on Rodgers when its always 2nd and short.

Ugly: The safety and the INT. Two crucial mistakes that could have made a difference. It cost points, could have given the d a breather, and it just stopped whatever momentum the Vikings had at the time. You could hear the air deflate with the silence of the crowd.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:11 pm

Offense

The Good: Theilen is back and 4 of the 5 Oline only gave up 2 pressures total. More on the rest of the Oline below...

The Bad: Cousins decision making while the game was still on the line. The Int and 4th down decision could have been backbreakers if the D hadn't already made the outcome of the game inevitable.

The Ugly: Elflien gave up 5 of the 7 pressures given up yesterday. Changing to RG has not improved his play. He is awful.

Defense

The Good: Kendricks played well. That is all.

The Bad: Everyone but Kendricks was all bad.

The Ugly: The interior of the Dline. The edge rushers should improve and the corners are full of potential. The DTs have peaked though, and there is no hope behind them.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:22 pm

Thank you guys for doing this. I think its fun and positive and will be doing it each week.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by S197 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:00 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:11 pm
Offense

The Good: Theilen is back and 4 of the 5 Oline only gave up 2 pressures total. More on the rest of the Oline below...
Looks like the breakdown was Elflein had 5 pressures and O'Neill had 2. Reiff/Dakota/Bradbury didn't give up any. At least according to this tweet:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattAnderson ... 3497344000

This is O'Neill and Elf getting beat simulatneously:

https://gfycat.com/sereneillasianporcupine

O'neill getting beat:

https://gfycat.com/tightunrealisticiberianmidwifetoad

Both of them again:

https://gfycat.com/measlyunequaledbillygoat

There was also the Smith sack, which I'm guessing they credited against Elflein. The Packers also lost Clark and I think one other lineman in the first half so that probably helped Bradbury and possibly Dozier.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:16 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:00 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:11 pm
Offense

The Good: Theilen is back and 4 of the 5 Oline only gave up 2 pressures total. More on the rest of the Oline below...
Looks like the breakdown was Elflein had 5 pressures and O'Neill had 2. Reiff/Dakota/Bradbury didn't give up any. At least according to this tweet:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattAnderson ... 3497344000

This is O'Neill and Elf getting beat simulatneously:

https://gfycat.com/sereneillasianporcupine

O'neill getting beat:

https://gfycat.com/tightunrealisticiberianmidwifetoad

Both of them again:

https://gfycat.com/measlyunequaledbillygoat

There was also the Smith sack, which I'm guessing they credited against Elflein. The Packers also lost Clark and I think one other lineman in the first half so that probably helped Bradbury and possibly Dozier.
Yep 0 pressures given up by Bradbury, Reiff and Dozier.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:03 am

Good
Cousins improvising. I agree, some of it wasn't pretty, but that was more his unwillingness to slide. Of particular note was his very first time making a play off schedule, the 25-yard completion to Thielen on the Vikings' opening drive. He saw his escape route early, took it at the right time (before he had no chance to escape) and fired a strike. THAT is what we need.

Thielen is back. I'm not sure there's anybody in the league who's better at intermediate routes in the 15-25 yard range. Hoping he stays healthy.

Bradbury looked a lot better this game than he did at any time last year. I suppose part of that was because Clark was out, but he struggled against guys a lot less tough than Clark last year.

Kendricks was all over the field. Officially he had 7 tackles ... seemed like 27.

It's only one play, but Rudolph going down as soon as he made the catch late in the first half. If he had tried for more yardage, the clock would have run out. I heard on a radio show yesterday that the first words in the huddle when Cousins called the play were "Down, down," which means "get down as soon as you catch the ball." Good situational awareness, and a good job by Rudy to actually pay attention.

No fumbles.

Bad
Where on earth was Anthony Barr? Almost never heard his name called, but he did miss several tackles, so there IS that.

Cam Dantzler playing press coverage on the touchdown to Valdes-Scantling. Gotta understand the situation there. Keep the play in front of you, and the half will run out. He's young. He'll learn.

Brian O'Neill. Worst game I've seen him play in a long time. Yes, he was going up against the Smith brothers, but if he's our best O-lineman, he needs to step up.

Not much else, mainly because the rest of it falls into the "ugly" category for me.

Ugly
Where to start? OK, the lack of pressure. I realize Rodgers got rid of the ball quickly, but watching our line pass rush ... they were getting no push or speed upfield. I have no idea how it's going to get better against the Colts' outstanding O-line, but it needs to.

The second quarter. Offense: Safety, 3-and-out, interception. Defense: Great job on the goal-line stand. Bad job everything else. The game was lost over those 15 minutes. It seems like this happens far too often under Zimmer. We play 3 quarters of competitive football but fall on our faces for a quarter and lose.

The lack of crowd noise. It's pretty much unfair to allow Aaron Rodgers to stand there and call the play from the line based on what he sees. The rest of the NFL needs to take notice ... without crowd noise, Rodgers' experience is going to be tough to deal with.

Zero three-and-outs forced by our defense. One punt by Green Bay. Ugh.

The INT by Kirk. Just a terrible throw, forced to a covered Thielen, on the wrong side, and so, so costly. The best way to prevent Rodgers from getting a quick score before the half is not giving him the ball in the first place. You CANNOT make a turnover there. Instead of going into the half trailing 15-7 at worst, 15-10 or even 15-14 if you do things right, we fell behind 22-7. The only turnover of the game, and it was HUGE.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:09 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:03 am
Good
Cousins improvising. I agree, some of it wasn't pretty, but that was more his unwillingness to slide. Of particular note was his very first time making a play off schedule, the 25-yard completion to Thielen on the Vikings' opening drive. He saw his escape route early, took it at the right time (before he had no chance to escape) and fired a strike. THAT is what we need.

Thielen is back. I'm not sure there's anybody in the league who's better at intermediate routes in the 15-25 yard range. Hoping he stays healthy.

Bradbury looked a lot better this game than he did at any time last year. I suppose part of that was because Clark was out, but he struggled against guys a lot less tough than Clark last year.

Kendricks was all over the field. Officially he had 7 tackles ... seemed like 27.

It's only one play, but Rudolph going down as soon as he made the catch late in the first half. If he had tried for more yardage, the clock would have run out. I heard on a radio show yesterday that the first words in the huddle when Cousins called the play were "Down, down," which means "get down as soon as you catch the ball." Good situational awareness, and a good job by Rudy to actually pay attention.

No fumbles.

Bad
Where on earth was Anthony Barr? Almost never heard his name called, but he did miss several tackles, so there IS that.

Cam Dantzler playing press coverage on the touchdown to Valdes-Scantling. Gotta understand the situation there. Keep the play in front of you, and the half will run out. He's young. He'll learn.

Brian O'Neill. Worst game I've seen him play in a long time. Yes, he was going up against the Smith brothers, but if he's our best O-lineman, he needs to step up.

Not much else, mainly because the rest of it falls into the "ugly" category for me.

Ugly
Where to start? OK, the lack of pressure. I realize Rodgers got rid of the ball quickly, but watching our line pass rush ... they were getting no push or speed upfield. I have no idea how it's going to get better against the Colts' outstanding O-line, but it needs to.

The second quarter. Offense: Safety, 3-and-out, interception. Defense: Great job on the goal-line stand. Bad job everything else. The game was lost over those 15 minutes. It seems like this happens far too often under Zimmer. We play 3 quarters of competitive football but fall on our faces for a quarter and lose.

The lack of crowd noise. It's pretty much unfair to allow Aaron Rodgers to stand there and call the play from the line based on what he sees. The rest of the NFL needs to take notice ... without crowd noise, Rodgers' experience is going to be tough to deal with.

Zero three-and-outs forced by our defense. One punt by Green Bay. Ugh.

The INT by Kirk. Just a terrible throw, forced to a covered Thielen, on the wrong side, and so, so costly. The best way to prevent Rodgers from getting a quick score before the half is not giving him the ball in the first place. You CANNOT make a turnover there. Instead of going into the half trailing 15-7 at worst, 15-10 or even 15-14 if you do things right, we fell behind 22-7. The only turnover of the game, and it was HUGE.
Good call out of Bradbury. Contrary to what many have said, he did not improve much as the season went on last year, and 0 pressures given up and playing well in the run game game 1 is huge.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:10 am

S197 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:00 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:11 pm
Offense

The Good: Theilen is back and 4 of the 5 Oline only gave up 2 pressures total. More on the rest of the Oline below...
Looks like the breakdown was Elflein had 5 pressures and O'Neill had 2. Reiff/Dakota/Bradbury didn't give up any. At least according to this tweet:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattAnderson ... 3497344000

This is O'Neill and Elf getting beat simulatneously:

https://gfycat.com/sereneillasianporcupine

O'neill getting beat:

https://gfycat.com/tightunrealisticiberianmidwifetoad

Both of them again:

https://gfycat.com/measlyunequaledbillygoat

There was also the Smith sack, which I'm guessing they credited against Elflein. The Packers also lost Clark and I think one other lineman in the first half so that probably helped Bradbury and possibly Dozier.
Looking at these clips, the first one where you say O'Neill and Elf get beat simultaneously.....there was one problem there. It was Elflein. This is what's going to kill us this year is our interior. Watch how far O'Neill blocks his guy up field. That's an easy step up into the pocket for Cousins but he cant because Elflein gives us immediate pressure up the middle.

The second one, on the clip it looks like it's O'Neill that gets beat but that wasnt the problem again. They showed that replay during the game and Luke Braun spoke about it on his podcast yesterday. The Packers ran a late stunt. In a zone blocking scheme, Elflein needs to get the guy coming inside and O'Neill gets the guy going outside. O'Neill got caught in a pickle because the guy lined up over him came to the outside to start and then bailed last minute while Smith came inside. O'Neill was left on an island there while Elflein blocked nobody. That is another mistake on Elflein's part.

The third one, O'Neill wasnt really beat, he was pushed back which is where his below average strength comes into play.

But overall, the main problem here is Elflein and I really wonder if it's why Elflein was moved to RG because they figured O'Neill might make him better. That's not going to be the case and Elflein simply shouldnt be starting in general. Pat Elflein is going to make O'Neill look bad at times, at least to the average fan. But when you look at what actually broke down, it was Elflein, not Oneill. I trust Oneill pass blocking any day of the week.

It just baffles me that guys like Samia or Cleveland arent playing over Elflein. I'm sorry but neither of them can be THAT bad.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:17 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:10 am
S197 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:00 pm


Looks like the breakdown was Elflein had 5 pressures and O'Neill had 2. Reiff/Dakota/Bradbury didn't give up any. At least according to this tweet:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattAnderson ... 3497344000

This is O'Neill and Elf getting beat simulatneously:

https://gfycat.com/sereneillasianporcupine

O'neill getting beat:

https://gfycat.com/tightunrealisticiberianmidwifetoad

Both of them again:

https://gfycat.com/measlyunequaledbillygoat

There was also the Smith sack, which I'm guessing they credited against Elflein. The Packers also lost Clark and I think one other lineman in the first half so that probably helped Bradbury and possibly Dozier.
Looking at these clips, the first one where you say O'Neill and Elf get beat simultaneously.....there was one problem there. It was Elflein. This is what's going to kill us this year is our interior. Watch how far O'Neill blocks his guy up field. That's an easy step up into the pocket for Cousins but he cant because Elflein gives us immediate pressure up the middle.

The second one, on the clip it looks like it's O'Neill that gets beat but that wasnt the problem again. They showed that replay during the game and Luke Braun spoke about it on his podcast yesterday. The Packers ran a late stunt. In a zone blocking scheme, Elflein needs to get the guy coming inside and O'Neill gets the guy going outside. O'Neill got caught in a pickle because the guy lined up over him came to the outside to start and then bailed last minute while Smith came inside. O'Neill was left on an island there while Elflein blocked nobody. That is another mistake on Elflein's part.

The third one, O'Neill wasnt really beat, he was pushed back which is where his below average strength comes into play.

But overall, the main problem here is Elflein and I really wonder if it's why Elflein was moved to RG because they figured O'Neill might make him better. That's not going to be the case and Elflein simply shouldnt be starting in general. Pat Elflein is going to make O'Neill look bad at times, at least to the average fan. But when you look at what actually broke down, it was Elflein, not Oneill. I trust Oneill pass blocking any day of the week.

It just baffles me that guys like Samia or Cleveland arent playing over Elflein. I'm sorry but neither of them can be THAT bad.
I recently rewatched game 1 of last year and Elf's play from that game mirrored this one. Plays where you watch him and wonder how he made an NFL roster, let alone earned a start.

One other note about the Oline: PFF has Reiff as our 2nd worst graded pass blocking Olineman yesterday. He gave up 0 pressures, had 0 penalties and is somehow graded worse than O'Neil.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by Texas Vike » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:19 am

S197 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:00 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:11 pm
Offense

The Good: Theilen is back and 4 of the 5 Oline only gave up 2 pressures total. More on the rest of the Oline below...
Looks like the breakdown was Elflein had 5 pressures and O'Neill had 2. Reiff/Dakota/Bradbury didn't give up any. At least according to this tweet:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattAnderson ... 3497344000

This is O'Neill and Elf getting beat simulatneously:

https://gfycat.com/sereneillasianporcupine

O'neill getting beat:

https://gfycat.com/tightunrealisticiberianmidwifetoad

Both of them again:

https://gfycat.com/measlyunequaledbillygoat

There was also the Smith sack, which I'm guessing they credited against Elflein. The Packers also lost Clark and I think one other lineman in the first half so that probably helped Bradbury and possibly Dozier.
It stood out that O'Neill looked less impressive than he did last year in this game and I'm now wondering if part of that is being next to Elflein.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by StpViking » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:47 am

The OL as a group is not really known for being good 1 on 1 blockers. Zimm, Kubiak, Dennison are convince they have the right guys, we fans are not, but lets see who is correct at the end of another Zimm/Spielman season.

If it turns out us couch potato fans, with access only to game tape, can evaluate talent better then the recently extend Coach/GM. Boy the franchise is in big trouble.
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by Tark » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:43 am

StpViking wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:47 am
The OL as a group is not really known for being good 1 on 1 blockers. Zimm, Kubiak, Dennison are convince they have the right guys, we fans are not, but lets see who is correct at the end of another Zimm/Spielman season.

If it turns out us couch potato fans, with access only to game tape, can evaluate talent better then the recently extend Coach/GM. Boy the franchise is in big trouble.
Agreed, this franchise has been in big trouble since Tarkenton and Grant left the building. Garbage time production from the offense is meaningless. I'm with Percy, start the young players and the best talent we have and give them some on the job training. What could possibly go wrong..another embarrassment against the Slackers?? :confused: This club has yet to find a franchise QB. After Tark left who have we had?: Bob Lee, Percy's buddy Tommy Kramer, Wade Wilson, Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Daunte Culpepper, Teddy Bridgewater, TJ, and retreads like Randall Cunningham, Brett Farve, Jeff George, Donovan McNabb and the list goes on. Cousins probably isn't it either. Who are we bringing in after Cousins? Peyton Manning or John Elway??? :wallbang:
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Re: Vikings vs. Packers: Good, Bad, and Ugly

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:30 pm

Tark wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:43 am
StpViking wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:47 am
The OL as a group is not really known for being good 1 on 1 blockers. Zimm, Kubiak, Dennison are convince they have the right guys, we fans are not, but lets see who is correct at the end of another Zimm/Spielman season.

If it turns out us couch potato fans, with access only to game tape, can evaluate talent better then the recently extend Coach/GM. Boy the franchise is in big trouble.
Agreed, this franchise has been in big trouble since Tarkenton and Grant left the building. Garbage time production from the offense is meaningless. I'm with Percy, start the young players and the best talent we have and give them some on the job training. What could possibly go wrong..another embarrassment against the Slackers?? :confused: This club has yet to find a franchise QB. After Tark left who have we had?: Bob Lee, Percy's buddy Tommy Kramer, Wade Wilson, Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Daunte Culpepper, Teddy Bridgewater, TJ, and retreads like Randall Cunningham, Brett Farve, Jeff George, Donovan McNabb and the list goes on. Cousins probably isn't it either. Who are we bringing in after Cousins? Peyton Manning or John Elway??? :wallbang:
Switch our 2020 first round pick and give up 2 more for Trevor Lawrence. I am so serious. Lets solve this once and for all. ALl these other teams swing and hit or swing and miss and they still make up for it and are as competitive as we are. Time to have someone to look forward to.
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