It's easier to act like a dumbass when you aren't the one losing family members. That's the point, if he was to lose his wife to this disease, he would be on TV boohooing and promoting mask wearing. But... Because he hasn't been personally affected... Mask wearing is stupid. It's immature, callous, and I expected better from him. That type of attitude is what's wrong with this country now on almost every front. Too many people can't feel the pain of others unless they are personally affected.
Again, he didn't say wearing a mask was stupid. Kyle Brandt gave that as the "1" on the scale, not Cousins.
I get it that if you lose someone, you're more likely to be sensitive to it. But it still doesn't change how people of faith feel about the virus. You won't understand that, but it's the truth. Even if I lost my wife to Covid, it wouldn't change my outlook. Covid is a virus, and until that virus dies out or we have a vaccine, everybody is susceptible to it. Wearing a mask won't protect my wife, who works in a place where there are hundreds of people. They're all supposed to be wearing masks, but she's still exposed to a lot of people for whom there is no tracking. I would be devastated if I lost her, but it wouldn't change my outlook. My faith tells me that I'm not really in charge of my eternal destiny. I'm OK with giving up control. And I believe that is EXACTLY what Kirk Cousins was saying. To people of faith, it was anything but immature.
Here's something else. I know you're a medical professional. Here's the attitude I'm getting from SOME medical professionals ... they're bitter that they, themselves, have to be exposed to people who have caught this virus. They believe the person's callous attitude has put THEM in danger. I'm not saying that's your attitude, but if it is, I'm sad for you.
Kyle gave him a 1 to 10 and he said near 0. Whats your point? I am also a believer in Christ. I love God and my faith. None of that has anything to do with being considerate of the voice that I have. I don't believe you that if you lost someone close to you, that wouldnt have an profound impact on how you view the need to wear masks. Wearing a mask and Christianity are not mutually exclusive. If it is to you and Kirk...
1. Don't look both ways when you cross the street
2. Dont get vaccinated
3. Don't go to the doctor or dentist
4. Don't take prescribed medicines
Having faith isn't foolish at all. Living recklessly in the name of faith, is. I also believe that God has granted us free will. He is all knowing but he allows us to fall. If we had no control of our destiny, the story of Jonah would be of no use. Jonah was directly told where and what to do and chose not to.
Last edited by YikesVikes on Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Man, what a tough life to live. How will you continue on. Hate to destroy your argument with facts but actually almost 40% of people who have died from this disease are under 75. 20% are under 65. It's not just the old 70 year old that needs to worry. Additionally, the young may catch it and spread it to perfect strangers and or family while being asymptomatic.
Why do I live a tough life? I'm confused by that.
I don't know if the world stats are much different than the US, but i was talking about the United States. However, I'd be SHOCKED if the rest of the world was in such contrast to the US.
Here are the numbers straight from the CDC as of last week. So obviously these numbers are a few days old. Again, no chance they skew things that much. I still maintain what I said. If I was over 70 this would have my attention. If it makes a difference to you I'll concede it should make a difference if you're over 65 I suppose. 65 and older make up 76% of all American deaths as of a couple days ago.
These are CDC stats as of three days ago. This isn't meant to minimize the virus or make light of people dying. It'd be great if no one died ever from anything. But in the real world, people die. They die of all sorts of reasons every year. But these are straight facts in it's simplest forms. Obviously there are other factors such as other health issues that play a part in these deaths as well. So right now, today, by 39 year old self has a 98.03% chance of not dying from this virus. Can you think of anything else in regular life where you wouldn't take your chances if you had a 98% chance of winning something?!
So I'll concede I could have said 65 instead of 70 in my post above. Though that is a span of 10 years so I don't know the exact breakdown of all ages 65-74.
I don't know why some people get so upset at others not being as fearful of this thing when the exact data shows just why that is.
We aren't upset about others not being fearful. We are upset about others being stupid. The two are not the same. People die all the time is truthful. However, when car crashes become the leading cause of deaths in America in 4-month duration, despite a complete ban on driving.....get back to me.
You stat on you YOU dying is exactly the problem. It's not about YOU only. YOU are living in a civilization. YOU live in a society. YOU should be looking out for others and if YOU could do something that would keep someone else from dying, YOU should. So while this disease might not affect YOU, YOU coughing inro your hands and then touching doors, railings and buttons, further spreading the virus, could be devastating for someone else. Excuse me if I am deep.ly concerned as my community has faced the blunt of this disease.
Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:00 am
God bless Kirk for saying what he did. His body his choice. People inhaling second-hand smoke is dangerous and deadly. Do you berate and scream at a smoker when you walk by them in public? I agree that I don't want to live in lockdown and have to wear a muzzle for the rest of my life. People need to stop shaming others for what they say in this country. Not everyone thinks like you and even if they're wrong that's their choice. I'm sure they would think some things you choose to do or believe in are wrong. Everyone should mind their own business. If you are deathly afraid then you take precautions and stay inside for 10 years until we maybe get a safe vaccine. The rest of us should and must go on.
What a horrible comparison. Let me know when breathing in 2nd hand smoke kills you within weeks and then can be spread throughout a household and community. Again 190k people have died despite the entire country being on isolation precautions. With attitudes like yours, mankind would be extinct.
With attitudes like yours mankind would have starved in the cave too afraid to come out. Your beloved CDC says even a very limited exposure to secondhand smoke can cause cancer...which last I checked is much more deadly than Covid. Does cancer have a 99.8% survivability?
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:02 pm
What a horrible comparison. Let me know when breathing in 2nd hand smoke kills you within weeks and then can be spread throughout a household and community. Again 190k people have died despite the entire country being on isolation precautions. With attitudes like yours, mankind would be extinct.
With attitudes like yours mankind would have starved in the cave too afraid to come out. Your beloved CDC says even a very limited exposure to secondhand smoke can cause cancer...which last I checked is much more deadly than Covid. Does cancer have a 99.8% survivability?
Even brief secondhand smoke exposure can damage cells in ways that set the cancer process in motion.4
CANCER ISN'T CONTAGIOUS. That's it. Thats the message. Cancer isn't more deadly than COVID. COVID is the leading killer of Americans and it has done it in 4 months, while the country was actively shutdown to prevent it. Had Americans continued their way of life and not been isolated in their homes, the death rate would have been in the millions. Facts are your friends.
With attitudes like yours mankind would have starved in the cave too afraid to come out. Your beloved CDC says even a very limited exposure to secondhand smoke can cause cancer...which last I checked is much more deadly than Covid. Does cancer have a 99.8% survivability?
Even brief secondhand smoke exposure can damage cells in ways that set the cancer process in motion.4
CANCER ISN'T CONTAGIOUS. That's it. Thats the message. Cancer isn't more deadly than COVID. COVID is the leading killer of Americans and it has done it in 4 months, while the country was actively shutdown to prevent it. Had Americans continued their way of life and not been isolated in their homes, the death rate would have been in the millions. Facts are your friends.
Only 6% of those individuals died solely of Covid. The rest of them died of something else and happened to test positive for Covid... if you believe the accuracy of the tests... and if you believe they were even given a test. So I think the deaths from Covid are more like 10,000 tops. Also, it has been here for more than 4 months. Death from Covid and death with Covid are two different things. Not all of America was isolated some states did far less than others and had similar or better results. Some countries did less or nothing and had better results. And the death rate would have been on a scale of 0 to 100% not in the millions that would fall under death numbers. Stop being condescending. Ask anyone if they'd prefer pancreatic cancer or a brain tumor to Covid.
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mael·strom
a powerful whirlpool in the sea or a river.
a situation or state of confused movement or violent turmoil.
CANCER ISN'T CONTAGIOUS. That's it. Thats the message. Cancer isn't more deadly than COVID. COVID is the leading killer of Americans and it has done it in 4 months, while the country was actively shutdown to prevent it. Had Americans continued their way of life and not been isolated in their homes, the death rate would have been in the millions. Facts are your friends.
Only 6% of those individuals died solely of Covid. The rest of them died of something else and happened to test positive for Covid... if you believe the accuracy of the tests... and if you believe they were even given a test. So I think the deaths from Covid are more like 10,000 tops. Also, it has been here for more than 4 months. Death from Covid and death with Covid are two different things. Not all of America was isolated some states did far less than others and had similar or better results. Some countries did less or nothing and had better results. And the death rate would have been on a scale of 0 to 100% not in the millions that would fall under death numbers. Stop being condescending. Ask anyone if they'd prefer pancreatic cancer or a brain tumor to Covid.
You are arguing about CoVID's Lethality with a nurse in the Emergency Room of the biggest hospital in Washington DC. My experience outweighs yours. People with commobidities like CHF, COPD, Asthma... are at risk but they are dying becuase of what CoVID does to the lungs. Its not a conspiracy. When a hospital reports deaths, they report the cause of death. They are not reporting deaths w/ COVID. Get your news from someplace besides FOXNEWS.
vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:12 pm
Why do I live a tough life? I'm confused by that.
I don't know if the world stats are much different than the US, but i was talking about the United States. However, I'd be SHOCKED if the rest of the world was in such contrast to the US.
Here are the numbers straight from the CDC as of last week. So obviously these numbers are a few days old. Again, no chance they skew things that much. I still maintain what I said. If I was over 70 this would have my attention. If it makes a difference to you I'll concede it should make a difference if you're over 65 I suppose. 65 and older make up 76% of all American deaths as of a couple days ago.
These are CDC stats as of three days ago. This isn't meant to minimize the virus or make light of people dying. It'd be great if no one died ever from anything. But in the real world, people die. They die of all sorts of reasons every year. But these are straight facts in it's simplest forms. Obviously there are other factors such as other health issues that play a part in these deaths as well. So right now, today, by 39 year old self has a 98.03% chance of not dying from this virus. Can you think of anything else in regular life where you wouldn't take your chances if you had a 98% chance of winning something?!
So I'll concede I could have said 65 instead of 70 in my post above. Though that is a span of 10 years so I don't know the exact breakdown of all ages 65-74.
I don't know why some people get so upset at others not being as fearful of this thing when the exact data shows just why that is.
We aren't upset about others not being fearful. We are upset about others being stupid. The two are not the same. People die all the time is truthful. However, when car crashes become the leading cause of deaths in America in 4-month duration, despite a complete ban on driving.....get back to me.
You stat on you YOU dying is exactly the problem. It's not about YOU only. YOU are living in a civilization. YOU live in a society. YOU should be looking out for others and if YOU could do something that would keep someone else from dying, YOU should. So while this disease might not affect YOU, YOU coughing inro your hands and then touching doors, railings and buttons, further spreading the virus, could be devastating for someone else. Excuse me if I am deep.ly concerned as my community has faced the blunt of this disease.
Exactly. That’s why I’M being a good person and doing what they tell me to.
You know the masks could prevent regular flu deaths too right? Have you always worn a mask? Are you planning on wearing them from here on out until you die? Because while it may not be corona, other viruses kill people every single year. Every example you listed above could be given for the tens of thousands that die of the flu. Can you tell me that you’ve always worn a mask and plan on doing so forever? If not, that is major hypocrisy.
Also, your car accident case above is perfect. We could prevent a ton of those deaths too. We could ban driving which is extreme but not a ton more than forcing schools and businesses to close. Many of those deaths are related to drinking and driving. Here in Montana our bars were finally allowed to open but still just close at midnight. You know, because corona is way more dangerous with drunks after midnight. We could prevent deaths by always closing bars that early. Hell we could save millions just by closing bars! Go a step farther and close fast food joints to curve heart disease....
Of course if you have loved ones die of corona you’re perspective is different. That’s the case with everything. My father killed himself so my view on suicide may be different than yours. Doesn’t make suicide deaths more important than other means of dying. I wouldn’t ask the rest of the world to shut down until we get ahead of the curve on mental health in the country! That’s the whole point. Why act like this virus is so much more deadly or important than other means of dying when the stats certainly don’t back up that claim?
Only 6% of those individuals died solely of Covid. The rest of them died of something else and happened to test positive for Covid... if you believe the accuracy of the tests... and if you believe they were even given a test. So I think the deaths from Covid are more like 10,000 tops. Also, it has been here for more than 4 months. Death from Covid and death with Covid are two different things. Not all of America was isolated some states did far less than others and had similar or better results. Some countries did less or nothing and had better results. And the death rate would have been on a scale of 0 to 100% not in the millions that would fall under death numbers. Stop being condescending. Ask anyone if they'd prefer pancreatic cancer or a brain tumor to Covid.
You are arguing about CoVID's Lethality with a nurse in the Emergency Room of the biggest hospital in Washington DC. My experience outweighs yours. People with commobidities like CHF, COPD, Asthma... are at risk but they are dying becuase of what CoVID does to the lungs. Its not a conspiracy. When a hospital reports deaths, they report the cause of death. They are not reporting deaths w/ COVID. Get your news from someplace besides FOXNEWS.
I don't watch FOX News. I watch Ron Paul on YouTube primarily. You know, a physician. I respect your opinion and disagree. Obviously, I concede you have seen and know more than I do because of your firsthand knowledge. However, I do believe this virus has been politicized on both sides and that it is not something to be overly worried about unless you are older and/or have outstanding circumstances. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
mael·strom
a powerful whirlpool in the sea or a river.
a situation or state of confused movement or violent turmoil.
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:20 pm
We aren't upset about others not being fearful. We are upset about others being stupid. The two are not the same. People die all the time is truthful. However, when car crashes become the leading cause of deaths in America in 4-month duration, despite a complete ban on driving.....get back to me.
You stat on you YOU dying is exactly the problem. It's not about YOU only. YOU are living in a civilization. YOU live in a society. YOU should be looking out for others and if YOU could do something that would keep someone else from dying, YOU should. So while this disease might not affect YOU, YOU coughing inro your hands and then touching doors, railings and buttons, further spreading the virus, could be devastating for someone else. Excuse me if I am deep.ly concerned as my community has faced the blunt of this disease.
Exactly. That’s why I’M being a good person and doing what they tell me to.
You know the masks could prevent regular flu deaths too right? Have you always worn a mask? Are you planning on wearing them from here on out until you die? Because while it may not be corona, other viruses kill people every single year. Every example you listed above could be given for the tens of thousands that die of the flu. Can you tell me that you’ve always worn a mask and plan on doing so forever? If not, that is major hypocrisy.
Also, your car accident case above is perfect. We could prevent a ton of those deaths too. We could ban driving which is extreme but not a ton more than forcing schools and businesses to close. Many of those deaths are related to drinking and driving. Here in Montana our bars were finally allowed to open but still just close at midnight. You know, because corona is way more dangerous with drunks after midnight. We could prevent deaths by always closing bars that early. Hell we could save millions just by closing bars! Go a step farther and close fast food joints to curve heart disease....
Of course if you have loved ones die of corona you’re perspective is different. That’s the case with everything. My father killed himself so my view on suicide may be different than yours. Doesn’t make suicide deaths more important than other means of dying. I wouldn’t ask the rest of the world to shut down until we get ahead of the curve on mental health in the country! That’s the whole point. Why act like this virus is so much more deadly or important than other means of dying when the stats certainly don’t back up that claim?
This is the right question. What rate or mortality does a disease have to have to require this reaction? Why use for covid, and not for flu? Cold? If someone wont provide a particular threshold, I'd say their opinion is ideological, not scientific, and furthermore that its worthless.
CANCER ISN'T CONTAGIOUS. That's it. Thats the message. Cancer isn't more deadly than COVID. COVID is the leading killer of Americans and it has done it in 4 months, while the country was actively shutdown to prevent it. Had Americans continued their way of life and not been isolated in their homes, the death rate would have been in the millions. Facts are your friends.
Only 6% of those individuals died solely of Covid. The rest of them died of something else and happened to test positive for Covid... if you believe the accuracy of the tests... and if you believe they were even given a test. So I think the deaths from Covid are more like 10,000 tops. Also, it has been here for more than 4 months. Death from Covid and death with Covid are two different things. Not all of America was isolated some states did far less than others and had similar or better results. Some countries did less or nothing and had better results. And the death rate would have been on a scale of 0 to 100% not in the millions that would fall under death numbers. Stop being condescending. Ask anyone if they'd prefer pancreatic cancer or a brain tumor to Covid.
What happened to flu deaths? Same time frame last flu season, we had somewhere close to 100,000 flu deaths. No flu deaths this year. A puzzler!
808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:19 am
As far as wearing a mask for both protection and to limit spread. If done correctly, wearing a mask protects you and others. I don't think that's debatable. Plus, it's harder to bite your nails, dig your nose, lick your fingers, pick your teeth, when you have a mask on. Id say thats much worse than just adjusting your mask.
I'm totally with you on masks, I think everyone should wear them while in public around others. But the purpose of wearing a mask is to protect others. The purpose of others wearing a mask is to protect you.
Cover your mouth and nose with a mask when around others
You could spread COVID-19 to others even if you do not feel sick.
The mask is meant to protect other people in case you are infected.
Everyone should wear a mask in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.
Masks should not be placed on young children under age 2, anyone who has trouble breathing, or is unconscious, incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.
Do NOT use a mask meant for a healthcare worker. Currently, surgical masks and N95 respirators are critical supplies that should be reserved for healthcare workers and other first responders.
Continue to keep about 6 feet between yourself and others. The mask is not a substitute for social distancing.
But the CDC does note, “A cloth face covering may not protect the wearer, but it may keep the wearer from spreading the virus to others.” By wearing a cloth covering in public, the spread of the virus can be slowed by lessening the transmission to others.
But saying wearing a mask protects you and is not debatable is erroneous based on what we current understand about the virus.
I think we're both on the same page for the most part however, the CDC initially was saying not to wear masks while the rest of the world (Asia mostly) was so I don't trust everything they say. Seems like they've been slow to react from the beginning. . When I work (fix machines in hospitals and clinics), I absolutely wear a mask for both controlling the spread and to protect myself. I keep it on from the time I leave my car until I return. When I fly, or when I'm in the hospital, I'm assuming everyone may have the virus, whatever I touch may have the virus, I myself may have the virus. Remember, the virus can live on surfaces from hours for up to 3 days. Think of all the things you touch daily. I keep my mask on so I don't infect myself and others. I don't want to argue.. Fact is, if you wear a mask, you are preventing the spread of the virus.
Only 6% of those individuals died solely of Covid. The rest of them died of something else and happened to test positive for Covid... if you believe the accuracy of the tests... and if you believe they were even given a test. So I think the deaths from Covid are more like 10,000 tops. Also, it has been here for more than 4 months. Death from Covid and death with Covid are two different things. Not all of America was isolated some states did far less than others and had similar or better results. Some countries did less or nothing and had better results. And the death rate would have been on a scale of 0 to 100% not in the millions that would fall under death numbers. Stop being condescending. Ask anyone if they'd prefer pancreatic cancer or a brain tumor to Covid.
What happened to flu deaths? Same time frame last flu season, we had somewhere close to 100,000 flu deaths. No flu deaths this year. A puzzler!
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
Looks like we average about 38,000 deaths from the flu per year.
We are nearing 200k from COVID in half a year.
Also, flu-season starts in Oct not during the spring and summer
Last edited by YikesVikes on Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:48 pm
. Ask anyone if they'd prefer pancreatic cancer or a brain tumor to Covid.
I'm sure neither. But you cannot prevent others from getting pancreatic caner or a brain tumor. You can with COVID19.
I think it's pretty simple. Those that are closer to the virus take it seriously. Those that aren't affected yet don't. We are also only talking about death here. Lets not forget the lingering health issues it creates, the economic toll that it's doing. Sad that people don't care enough.
Last edited by 808vikingsfan on Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm totally with you on masks, I think everyone should wear them while in public around others. But the purpose of wearing a mask is to protect others. The purpose of others wearing a mask is to protect you.
But saying wearing a mask protects you and is not debatable is erroneous based on what we current understand about the virus.
I think we're both on the same page for the most part however, the CDC initially was saying not to wear masks while the rest of the world (Asia mostly) was so I don't trust everything they say. Seems like they've been slow to react from the beginning. . When I work (fix machines in hospitals and clinics), I absolutely wear a mask for both controlling the spread and to protect myself. I keep it on from the time I leave my car until I return. When I fly, or when I'm in the hospital, I'm assuming everyone may have the virus, whatever I touch may have the virus, I myself may have the virus. Remember, the virus can live on surfaces from hours for up to 3 days. Think of all the things you touch daily. I keep my mask on so I don't infect myself and others. I don't want to argue.. Fact is, if you wear a mask, you are preventing the spread of the virus.
You may want to look into KN95 masks if you are very concerned as they’re becoming more available and relatively affordable. My wife works in healthcare and I’ve bought them throughout the pandemic for her and have seen a pretty good decline in price. They still run a little under $3 a piece but that’s better than the $10+ (when you could find them) back in April/May. Stay safe out there.
