Cousins is actually better under the bright lights

[Cliff]

Re: Cousins is overpaid for what he brings.

Lets take the bias (negative or positive) away from that part of the conversation and try to look more objectively at it. From the point of view of people that aren't Vikings fans.

Google the phrase "Most overpaid QBs" and see if you can find me a list that doesn't include Cousins. After he was a Viking, of course.

**Edit - I managed to find one article out of about 10 so far that doesn't list him as one of (or the) most overpaid QB.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Re: Cousins is overpaid for what he brings.

Lets take the bias (negative or positive) away from that part of the conversation and try to look more objectively at it. From the point of view of people that aren't Vikings fans.

Google the phrase "Most overpaid QBs" and see if you can find me a list that doesn't include Cousins. After he was a Viking, of course.

**Edit - I managed to find one article out of about 10 so far that doesn't list him as one of (or the) most overpaid QB.

Well, they are all overpaid. Him being one of the higher paid QBs/players, that is not surprising. Who else would be on the list but the highest paid ones?
And I agree, he is overpaid. But so are the rest of them. The market seems to think a 5-10 QB makes that much. Ridiculous but true.
Spielman certainly can go get the 20th best QB and pay him less, spend on others and build that way. That's one way to do it I guess. Then we can have a D end or something not bringing enough to the table to justify his salary. I don't know. I just don't get the money debate. Cut his salary 5M/year. Big deal. Won't effect anything.

[RandyMoss84]

Cousins may be overpaid but he is way cheaper than the other 100 to 135 million quarterbacks

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Cousins may be overpaid but he is way cheaper than the other 100 to 135 million quarterbacks

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/hi ... r-BB10JOim

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/

Just doesn't seem unreasonable does it? I mean, beyond the ridiculousness of what we pay athletes in general.

[Cliff]

Cousins may be overpaid but he is way cheaper than the other 100 to 135 million quarterbacks

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/hi ... r-BB10JOim

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/

Just doesn't seem unreasonable does it? I mean, beyond the ridiculousness of what we pay athletes in general.

Never mind that a currently 6 million dollar a year QB helped the Vikings get to their best record since 1998 - second best in team history. Do we think Case Keenum was just suddenly awesome that year? Zimmer's teams are defense heavy and set up to employ a "game manager" type QB. Partially because he focuses on limiting mistakes, partially because if you're putting so much money in the defense you can't necessarily afford one of the highest paid QBs in the league.

Given the results since 2017 should we not have just kept the cheap QB? Dumping off to Dalvin Cook out of the playaction with nobody in your face isn't exactly the most difficult task for a QB.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/hi ... r-BB10JOim

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/

Just doesn't seem unreasonable does it? I mean, beyond the ridiculousness of what we pay athletes in general.

Never mind that a currently 6 million dollar a year QB helped the Vikings get to their best record since 1998 - second best in team history. Do we think Case Keenum was just suddenly awesome that year? Zimmer's teams are defense heavy and set up to employ a "game manager" type QB. Partially because he focuses on limiting mistakes, partially because if you're putting so much money in the defense you can't necessarily afford one of the highest paid QBs in the league.

Given the results since 2017 should we not have just kept the cheap QB? Dumping off to Dalvin Cook out of the playaction with nobody in your face isn't exactly the most difficult task for a QB.

Maybe. That's the other approach. Get a guy, pay him peanuts. Pay everybody else. Works once in a while. Eventually a "successful" QB is going to get paid. Make Case your starter, and not your backup stepping up due to injury, and his salary goes up dramatically. He wins a some playoff games by not screwing up so much that his D can't win, his salary goes up dramatically. I stand by my belief that the 5-10 M saved by having Johnny HoHum at QB will not make a squirt of difference in building the juggernaut team.

[S197]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/hi ... r-BB10JOim

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/

Just doesn't seem unreasonable does it? I mean, beyond the ridiculousness of what we pay athletes in general.

Never mind that a currently 6 million dollar a year QB helped the Vikings get to their best record since 1998 - second best in team history. Do we think Case Keenum was just suddenly awesome that year? Zimmer's teams are defense heavy and set up to employ a "game manager" type QB. Partially because he focuses on limiting mistakes, partially because if you're putting so much money in the defense you can't necessarily afford one of the highest paid QBs in the league.

Given the results since 2017 should we not have just kept the cheap QB? Dumping off to Dalvin Cook out of the playaction with nobody in your face isn't exactly the most difficult task for a QB.

I think this dynamic shows the most in the correlation between a successful running game and a successful offense. When the run game is clicking, the offense does well. I can't recall a game where the run game struggled and Cousins was able to step up and keep the fire going. There may have been a game or two but the majority of the time, the offense went in the dumpster once teams were able to contain Cook. Particularly in big games like the last game of the last two seasons.

I give Rick some slack on letting Keenum go and paying Cousins. I think based on what they did with Keenum, most would say the Vikings were in the window and an upgrade at QB could have been enough to put them over the edge. That didn't come to fruition, mainly due to Rick's poor handling of the guard situation that offseason, which is absolutely his fault but I see the logic.

What I don't understand is now that we know what Cousins is, the extension for a game manager really doesn't make sense to me. Why not let him play out his contract and earn that extension? Why not grab a guy like Eason who can hold a clipboard for a year and be a pretty good contingency plan if we need to move on?

I think fans are too binary on this. It doesn't boil down to paying for a good QB or saving money for a crap one. You can very much plan ahead for a smooth transition between QB's. Hate to say it but GB has shown how effective this can be with the transition from Favre to Rodgers. And now they're trying to do it again from Rodgers to Love.

Teams who have a lot of cap invested in QB simply are not very successful. It's easy to go back the last few years and see this. Building through the draft and getting younger is a great strategy for keeping a long-term roster competitive. And Rick for the most part does this, with almost sole exception being at QB. The most important position on the field. It baffles me and is why I continue to harp on it. I just don't understand.

[Cliff]

Maybe. That's the other approach. Get a guy, pay him peanuts. Pay everybody else. Works once in a while. Eventually a "successful" QB is going to get paid.

Case didn't. He was more successful in 2017 than Cousins has even been. At least in terms of wins. As far as garbage time stats, yeah, Cousins is the master.

Make Case your starter, and not your backup stepping up due to injury, and his salary goes up dramatically He wins a some playoff games by not screwing up so much that his D can't win, his salary goes up dramatically. I stand by my belief that the 5-10 M saved by having Johnny HoHum at QB will not make a squirt of difference in building the juggernaut team.

Denver made him the starter and paid him half of what Cousins is making. So, more like 15 million savings per year. More than Danielle Hunter's salary. Roughly what J.J. Watt makes per year.

[StumpHunter]

Never mind that a currently 6 million dollar a year QB helped the Vikings get to their best record since 1998 - second best in team history. Do we think Case Keenum was just suddenly awesome that year? Zimmer's teams are defense heavy and set up to employ a "game manager" type QB. Partially because he focuses on limiting mistakes, partially because if you're putting so much money in the defense you can't necessarily afford one of the highest paid QBs in the league.

Given the results since 2017 should we not have just kept the cheap QB? Dumping off to Dalvin Cook out of the playaction with nobody in your face isn't exactly the most difficult task for a QB.

Maybe. That's the other approach. Get a guy, pay him peanuts. Pay everybody else. Works once in a while. Eventually a "successful" QB is going to get paid. Make Case your starter, and not your backup stepping up due to injury, and his salary goes up dramatically. He wins a some playoff games by not screwing up so much that his D can't win, his salary goes up dramatically. I stand by my belief that the 5-10 M saved by having Johnny HoHum at QB will not make a squirt of difference in building the juggernaut team.

I don't think that is the solution either.

The vast majority of SB in the modern era were won by guys on rookie contracts or elite QBs. The perfect storm is an elite QB on a rookie contract, as we saw with Wilson and now Mahomes. Or an elite QB taking a team friendly deal to help them compete for a Super Bowl like Brady did for all those years. Not by the Case Keenum level QBs, or the Kirk Cousins level QBs making 45 million.

We should really be trying to emulate the champions of the NFL instead of the Lions, but it is what it is. Bad teams like the Lions, Raiders, Bengals and Dolphins give out monster contracts to average QBs, and we call that the market value. When in reality it is just the market value for what bad teams pay average QBs. Well run teams pay great QBs a lot of money and compete for SBs, poorly run teams pay average ones a lot of money and compete to go .500.

[Cliff]

I think this dynamic shows the most in the correlation between a successful running game and a successful offense. When the run game is clicking, the offense does well. I can't recall a game where the run game struggled and Cousins was able to step up and keep the fire going. There may have been a game or two but the majority of the time, the offense went in the dumpster once teams were able to contain Cook. Particularly in big games like the last game of the last two seasons.

That's how I see it too. This is defensive team and their offense goes through the run game. Paying a game manager QB that much doesn't fit with Zimmer's team, I don't think.

I give Rick some slack on letting Keenum go and paying Cousins. I think based on what they did with Keenum, most would say the Vikings were in the window and an upgrade at QB could have been enough to put them over the edge. That didn't come to fruition, mainly due to Rick's poor handling of the guard situation that offseason, which is absolutely his fault but I see the logic

Yes and no. "Our team did really well last year, lets change up the most important position on the team and see how that goes!". The offense had chemistry with Keenum that they don't have with Cousins. To the point where one of our best WRs wanted off the team.

I think fans are too binary on this. It doesn't boil down to paying for a good QB or saving money for a crap one. You can very much plan ahead for a smooth transition between QB's. Hate to say it but GB has shown how effective this can be with the transition from Favre to Rodgers. And now they're trying to do it again from Rodgers to Love.

This is exactly what I thought of! Greenbay has had great QB play since 1992 because they planned ahead at the QB position. It might not work out with Love, sure, but the strategy has paid them dividends for the last nearly 20 years so ...

Teams who have a lot of cap invested in QB simply are not very successful. It's easy to go back the last few years and see this. Building through the draft and getting younger is a great strategy for keeping a long-term roster competitive. And Rick for the most part does this, with almost sole exception being at QB. The most important position on the field. It baffles me and is why I continue to harp on it. I just don't understand.

I just don't get it either.

[StumpHunter]

Cousins may be overpaid but he is way cheaper than the other 100 to 135 million quarterbacks

His contract with the Vikings is 5 years, 150 million...fully guaranteed. He received the best contract in the history of the NFL, even when you take into account inflation in player salaries. On a per year basis he is right there with the top QBs, but the thing that puts him over the top is the guarantees that every QB asks for, but only our GM handed out.

[VikingsVictorious]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/hi ... r-BB10JOim

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/

Just doesn't seem unreasonable does it? I mean, beyond the ridiculousness of what we pay athletes in general.

Never mind that a currently 6 million dollar a year QB helped the Vikings get to their best record since 1998 - second best in team history. Do we think Case Keenum was just suddenly awesome that year? Zimmer's teams are defense heavy and set up to employ a "game manager" type QB. Partially because he focuses on limiting mistakes, partially because if you're putting so much money in the defense you can't necessarily afford one of the highest paid QBs in the league.

Given the results since 2017 should we not have just kept the cheap QB? Dumping off to Dalvin Cook out of the playaction with nobody in your face isn't exactly the most difficult task for a QB.

We couldn't have kept the cheap QB because he was no longer cheap. He would have been a bit less than Cousins at 20 million instead of 28, but I think we did much better with Cousins at 28 than we would have with Keenum at 20. I was among those in favor of sticking with Keenum, but seeing how he played since I'm very glad we went with Kirk.

[VikingsVictorious]

Never mind that a currently 6 million dollar a year QB helped the Vikings get to their best record since 1998 - second best in team history. Do we think Case Keenum was just suddenly awesome that year? Zimmer's teams are defense heavy and set up to employ a "game manager" type QB. Partially because he focuses on limiting mistakes, partially because if you're putting so much money in the defense you can't necessarily afford one of the highest paid QBs in the league.

Given the results since 2017 should we not have just kept the cheap QB? Dumping off to Dalvin Cook out of the playaction with nobody in your face isn't exactly the most difficult task for a QB.

Maybe. That's the other approach. Get a guy, pay him peanuts. Pay everybody else. Works once in a while. Eventually a "successful" QB is going to get paid. Make Case your starter, and not your backup stepping up due to injury, and his salary goes up dramatically. He wins a some playoff games by not screwing up so much that his D can't win, his salary goes up dramatically. I stand by my belief that the 5-10 M saved by having Johnny HoHum at QB will not make a squirt of difference in building the juggernaut team.

Very well put.

[VikingsVictorious]

Never mind that a currently 6 million dollar a year QB helped the Vikings get to their best record since 1998 - second best in team history. Do we think Case Keenum was just suddenly awesome that year? Zimmer's teams are defense heavy and set up to employ a "game manager" type QB. Partially because he focuses on limiting mistakes, partially because if you're putting so much money in the defense you can't necessarily afford one of the highest paid QBs in the league.

Given the results since 2017 should we not have just kept the cheap QB? Dumping off to Dalvin Cook out of the playaction with nobody in your face isn't exactly the most difficult task for a QB.

I think this dynamic shows the most in the correlation between a successful running game and a successful offense. When the run game is clicking, the offense does well. I can't recall a game where the run game struggled and Cousins was able to step up and keep the fire going. There may have been a game or two but the majority of the time, the offense went in the dumpster once teams were able to contain Cook. Particularly in big games like the last game of the last two seasons.

I give Rick some slack on letting Keenum go and paying Cousins. I think based on what they did with Keenum, most would say the Vikings were in the window and an upgrade at QB could have been enough to put them over the edge. That didn't come to fruition, mainly due to Rick's poor handling of the guard situation that offseason, which is absolutely his fault but I see the logic.

What I don't understand is now that we know what Cousins is, the extension for a game manager really doesn't make sense to me. Why not let him play out his contract and earn that extension? Why not grab a guy like Eason who can hold a clipboard for a year and be a pretty good contingency plan if we need to move on?

I think fans are too binary on this. It doesn't boil down to paying for a good QB or saving money for a crap one. You can very much plan ahead for a smooth transition between QB's. Hate to say it but GB has shown how effective this can be with the transition from Favre to Rodgers. And now they're trying to do it again from Rodgers to Love.

Teams who have a lot of cap invested in QB simply are not very successful. It's easy to go back the last few years and see this. Building through the draft and getting younger is a great strategy for keeping a long-term roster competitive. And Rick for the most part does this, with almost sole exception being at QB. The most important position on the field. It baffles me and is why I continue to harp on it. I just don't understand.

I know who Cousins is and it was far more than a game manager. He was one of the best QBs in the NFL. Statistics back this up and the Vikings finishing 5th also back this up. Just need to take another step or two forward in the next couple years.

[VikingsVictorious]

Maybe. That's the other approach. Get a guy, pay him peanuts. Pay everybody else. Works once in a while. Eventually a "successful" QB is going to get paid.

Case didn't. He was more successful in 2017 than Cousins has even been. At least in terms of wins. As far as garbage time stats, yeah, Cousins is the master.

Make Case your starter, and not your backup stepping up due to injury, and his salary goes up dramatically He wins a some playoff games by not screwing up so much that his D can't win, his salary goes up dramatically. I stand by my belief that the 5-10 M saved by having Johnny HoHum at QB will not make a squirt of difference in building the juggernaut team.

Denver made him the starter and paid him half of what Cousins is making. So, more like 15 million savings per year. More than Danielle Hunter's salary. Roughly what J.J. Watt makes per year.

Denver paid Keenum $20 million. Kirk made 28 millions. That's 71.4% not half. No way. Savings would have been $8 million. Not 15.