Spielman is actually better then average. there are more Vikings who were drafted on the roster then any other team.
Draft is a crapshoot. Some kids work there tail off, some dont. That helps a lot. If you look at Spielmans drafts he picks a lot of Notre Dame guys, guys who are low trouble hard work ethic, it shows enough. If Vikes get 4 starters out of this draft its terrific, Spielman increased those odds by getting lots of draft picks. I am a little tired of the Vikings devolopment of offensive lineman too. But Zimmer is great at developing defensive ends.
Would have to say the drafting of Trae Waynes looks bad now, but the Giants busted on Eli Apple too, it just happens.
Trae Waynes is a fine enough player, but I don't think he had the demeanor to really truly excel at the NFL level. Demeanor is a difficult thing to gauge in the draft process, but its 2nd only to having sufficient athleticism in importance.
Yeah I think it is just those two Notre Dame guys, oops, but I guess my point they do seem to get high quality people.
Also I just couldnt have endured another year of Waynes, Rhodes. Glad they got new guys. Mike Hughes is going to have to step up big time.Weird isnt it, Waynes has great straight line speed, but gets beat way to often.
Eller wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:48 pm
Would have to say the drafting of Trae Waynes looks bad now, but the Giants busted on Eli Apple too, it just happens.
Waynes wasn't that bad. He was a reliable run defender and tackler and often had decent position. If Waynes had a glaring flaw it was he didn't seem to turn that ability to stay into position to plays on the ball itself, whether that was to deny the reception or intercept the ball.
Could Spielman have found a guy who fit that description as a DB later than the 1st round? More than likely he could have. But I wasn't upset with the Waynes pick then and I'm not now. Waynes was a reasonable choice where the Vikings got him and based on what he put on tape and was known about him.
Eller wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 9:55 am
Yeah I think it is just those two Notre Dame guys, oops, but I guess my point they do seem to get high quality people.
Maybe it's all the gold helmets. We had a lot at one point, with Barr, Kendricks, Smith, and Rudolph. Plus Robert Blanton at the time and I think maybe one more.
Eller wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 9:55 am
Yeah I think it is just those two Notre Dame guys, oops, but I guess my point they do seem to get high quality people.
Maybe it's all the gold helmets. We had a lot at one point, with Barr, Kendricks, Smith, and Rudolph. Plus Robert Blanton at the time and I think maybe one more.
It's a worthwhile point: they DO seem to put emphasis on character, which is smart. I don't have the data, but IIRC this year we selected a number of players who were captains, even as underclassmen. Creating and maintaining a healthy locker room chemistry is important. My gut tells me that they were reminded of this, yet again, in light of the Diggs drama.
Maybe it's all the gold helmets. We had a lot at one point, with Barr, Kendricks, Smith, and Rudolph. Plus Robert Blanton at the time and I think maybe one more.
It's a worthwhile point: they DO seem to put emphasis on character, which is smart. I don't have the data, but IIRC this year we selected a number of players who were captains, even as underclassmen. Creating and maintaining a healthy locker room chemistry is important. My gut tells me that they were reminded of this, yet again, in light of the Diggs drama.
Cleaning out the Defensive Backs room, including Coach Jerry Gray, might also be telling in this regard.
Its possible that there was a bit of an internal schism on the team. To jettison four defensive backs, 3 starters, and the position coach all at once is unusual. Of course, there are salary cap constraints and poor performance to justify all the moves as well, so who knows.
But Mac and Jayron Kearse were both good players who evidently weren't good cultural fits in the locker room.
It's a worthwhile point: they DO seem to put emphasis on character, which is smart. I don't have the data, but IIRC this year we selected a number of players who were captains, even as underclassmen. Creating and maintaining a healthy locker room chemistry is important. My gut tells me that they were reminded of this, yet again, in light of the Diggs drama.
Cleaning out the Defensive Backs room, including Coach Jerry Gray, might also be telling in this regard.
Its possible that there was a bit of an internal schism on the team. To jettison four defensive backs, 3 starters, and the position coach all at once is unusual. Of course, there are salary cap constraints and poor performance to justify all the moves as well, so who knows.
But Mac and Jayron Kearse were both good players who evidently weren't good cultural fits in the locker room.
What was the deal with Mac? I remember being excited about him, after reading a story about his work ethic right after we drafted him. I recall that the article mentioned that he worked in the citrus fields of Florida with his immigrant parents from when he was young. I thought he'd have an awesome work ethic, be humble, and driven. He turned out to be a complainer and not get along with Zimmer, as far as I know. Do you know anything else about how he didn't fit in the locker room?
How about Kearse? I don't know anything about his character issues.
Cleaning out the Defensive Backs room, including Coach Jerry Gray, might also be telling in this regard.
Its possible that there was a bit of an internal schism on the team. To jettison four defensive backs, 3 starters, and the position coach all at once is unusual. Of course, there are salary cap constraints and poor performance to justify all the moves as well, so who knows.
But Mac and Jayron Kearse were both good players who evidently weren't good cultural fits in the locker room.
What was the deal with Mac? I remember being excited about him, after reading a story about his work ethic right after we drafted him. I recall that the article mentioned that he worked in the citrus fields of Florida with his immigrant parents from when he was young. I thought he'd have an awesome work ethic, be humble, and driven. He turned out to be a complainer and not get along with Zimmer, as far as I know. Do you know anything else about how he didn't fit in the locker room?
How about Kearse? I don't know anything about his character issues.
I am certainly using a lot of conjecture, but I remember hearing that, as you said, Mac was not happy playing nickel, got into Zimmer's dog house a bit, and then signed a piddling contract in FA, as though we had no interest in re-signing him.
Kearse was on the record that he wanted out, never seemed to get out of Zimmer's doghouse despite some really good on field moments, then got arrested for DUI and a loaded handgun without a permit. He was also supposedly close with Stephon Diggs.
My hypothesis might be way off the mark, but I could see letting go of all four of those DBs and Jerry Gray as a potential sign that there was a problem in that position room.
What was the deal with Mac? I remember being excited about him, after reading a story about his work ethic right after we drafted him. I recall that the article mentioned that he worked in the citrus fields of Florida with his immigrant parents from when he was young. I thought he'd have an awesome work ethic, be humble, and driven. He turned out to be a complainer and not get along with Zimmer, as far as I know. Do you know anything else about how he didn't fit in the locker room?
How about Kearse? I don't know anything about his character issues.
I am certainly using a lot of conjecture, but I remember hearing that, as you said, Mac was not happy playing nickel, got into Zimmer's dog house a bit, and then signed a piddling contract in FA, as though we had no interest in re-signing him.
Kearse was on the record that he wanted out, never seemed to get out of Zimmer's doghouse despite some really good on field moments, then got arrested for DUI and a loaded handgun without a permit. He was also supposedly close with Stephon Diggs.
My hypothesis might be way off the mark, but I could see letting go of all four of those DBs and Jerry Gray as a potential sign that there was a problem in that position room.
Troubling if true as we invested a LOT of draft capital at corner. More than any other position on the field and we are essentially starting from scratch other than Hughes.
My thoughts are...Mac wasn't happy in the slot and Zimmer wouldn't move him.
So he got out.
Kearse wanted more playing time and wasn't getting it and said he was gone.
And Wayne's was all about getting paid...which we couldn't afford to do with our cap situation.
Maybe it's all the gold helmets. We had a lot at one point, with Barr, Kendricks, Smith, and Rudolph. Plus Robert Blanton at the time and I think maybe one more.
It's a worthwhile point: they DO seem to put emphasis on character, which is smart. I don't have the data, but IIRC this year we selected a number of players who were captains, even as underclassmen. Creating and maintaining a healthy locker room chemistry is important. My gut tells me that they were reminded of this, yet again, in light of the Diggs drama.
Yeah and thanks, I really got tired of the Diggs drama too. Then he would pose after a big TD. Then there was the whining Diggs did about not getting the ball enough. I think it got under Zimmers skin. The distractions are not good during the year. Diggs was a good player, but he was making a Kings ransom too.
It's a worthwhile point: they DO seem to put emphasis on character, which is smart. I don't have the data, but IIRC this year we selected a number of players who were captains, even as underclassmen. Creating and maintaining a healthy locker room chemistry is important. My gut tells me that they were reminded of this, yet again, in light of the Diggs drama.
Cleaning out the Defensive Backs room, including Coach Jerry Gray, might also be telling in this regard.
Its possible that there was a bit of an internal schism on the team. To jettison four defensive backs, 3 starters, and the position coach all at once is unusual. Of course, there are salary cap constraints and poor performance to justify all the moves as well, so who knows.
But Mac and Jayron Kearse were both good players who evidently weren't good cultural fits in the locker room.
I think McKensie Alexander hurts the most, I know hes a slot corner but hes been pretty good. Certainly not worth a ton of money. But I am kind of glad they have new corners with fresh legs. I dont think the fall off will be that bad, and I do think think the ceiling is much higher..
No expert am I here, but i was impressed with the tape on Jeff Gladney. He seems to time going after the ball or a tackle through the player perfectly. Its was sort of the one think Rhodes could never get right, just too many pass interference calls. If my memory is right, Rhodes at his best was Rhodes with a lot of penalties. This kid looks like few of that. But really glad they are going with new corners, just way way to many completed throws last year. Would have been hard to take the carnage for another year, and I think we all know the Vikes were not going to advance in the playoffs with the group they had.
halfgiz wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:46 pm
My thoughts are...Mac wasn't happy in the slot and Zimmer wouldn't move him.
So he got out.
Kearse wanted more playing time and wasn't getting it and said he was gone.
And Wayne's was all about getting paid...which we couldn't afford to do with our cap situation.
I couldn't agree more. Obviously Kearse driving around drunk with a semi automatic handgun probably didnt make the Vikings decision a hard one either.
Eller wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:48 pm
Would have to say the drafting of Trae Waynes looks bad now, but the Giants busted on Eli Apple too, it just happens.
Waynes wasn't that bad. He was a reliable run defender and tackler and often had decent position. If Waynes had a glaring flaw it was he didn't seem to turn that ability to stay into position to plays on the ball itself, whether that was to deny the reception or intercept the ball.
Could Spielman have found a guy who fit that description as a DB later than the 1st round? More than likely he could have. But I wasn't upset with the Waynes pick then and I'm not now. Waynes was a reasonable choice where the Vikings got him and based on what he put on tape and was known about him.
yeah he wasnt that bad its just with the 10th overall pick, you want to get a guy who can start for you for 8years. Getting 3 and half year starter just isnt getting it done.. I am fine with Spielmans job overall I think hes done well.
Mac only got 1 year so if the Vikings wanted him they cookie have kept him, but there was definitely some hostility there between he and the staff. Kearse said he wouldn’t be back long before him left iirc. He will be suspended for a couple games I would assume. Waynes was just too costly.
In a league that throws all the time we had better hope we struck gold. Hill needs to make sure he doesn’t get suspended again, Hughes better be healthy and take the next step and I hope Boyd is a good one. Add in the three rookies and you have youth and talent but also a ton of uncertainty
Pep2Moss wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 9:17 pm
Mac only got 1 year so if the Vikings wanted him they cookie have kept him, but there was definitely some hostility there between he and the staff. Kearse said he wouldn’t be back long before him left iirc. He will be suspended for a couple games I would assume. Waynes was just too costly.
In a league that throws all the time we had better hope we struck gold. Hill needs to make sure he doesn’t get suspended again, Hughes better be healthy and take the next step and I hope Boyd is a good one. Add in the three rookies and you have youth and talent but also a ton of uncertainty
If Hill gets suspended again, he needs to get cut since he cares more about weed than football
