Trade with 49ers ?

[VikingsVictorious]

Obviously just a mock, but this helps illustrate why I'd be hesitant to trade up, and prefer to trade back.

In the last mock I did, I traded back, got Reagor at 33, Jaylon Johnson at 34. I could easily see those being the Vikings picks at 22 and 25, so that works. The big point here is that there is a group of players from 20 to maybe 40 that rate pretty similarly, and you are going to get valuable pieces at the top of the second round just about as much as you are at 22 and 25. Players I also added with the extra picks from those trade backs?

65.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire
RB LSU

75.
Amik Robertson
CB Louisiana Tech

147.
Kindle Vildor
CB Georgia Southern

160.
Michael Ojemudia
CB Iowa

197.
Tyrie Cleveland
WR Florida

215.
Javelin Guidry
S Utah

Cylde is a waste of a draft pick since Vikings have Cook, Mattison, Boone, and Abdullah, other than that, your mock draft is decent

If Clyde is good it's not a wasted draft pick.

[VikingsVictorious]

Obviously just a mock, but this helps illustrate why I'd be hesitant to trade up, and prefer to trade back.

In the last mock I did, I traded back, got Reagor at 33, Jaylon Johnson at 34. I could easily see those being the Vikings picks at 22 and 25, so that works. The big point here is that there is a group of players from 20 to maybe 40 that rate pretty similarly, and you are going to get valuable pieces at the top of the second round just about as much as you are at 22 and 25. Players I also added with the extra picks from those trade backs?

65.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire
RB LSU

75.
Amik Robertson
CB Louisiana Tech

147.
Kindle Vildor
CB Georgia Southern

160.
Michael Ojemudia
CB Iowa

197.
Tyrie Cleveland
WR Florida

215.
Javelin Guidry
S Utah

Totally agree; my only thought here is that every GM knows this, so there won't be trade partners. The only way there will be is if someone really wants to snag one of the QBs that falls (Herbert, Love, maybe Hurts, but I doubt it). The other advantage to picking at 22 and 25 instead of say 35 and 40 is that we get our pick of that tier. We don't know how Rick's board looks, and they might very well really favor a certain WR / CB / OL and not want to take the risk of having someone else pick them just to ensure that we get maximum value. I think it might be best for us fans to be OK with someone who is projected as a second round pick at our 1st rounders, because that's really likely to happen, if we stay put.

I've been led to believe that they are pretty close like most of us. However we don't know. There could be a huge difference from picks 22-40.

[VikingsVictorious]

I think Jefferson will go at #21 and we will pick Johnson.

That is a very popular belief. The WR I want is Mims, then Reagor, then Jefferson.

[RandyMoss84]

I think Jefferson will go at #21 and we will pick Johnson.

That is a very popular belief. The WR I want is Mims, then Reagor, then Jefferson.

I have said before that I am skeptical on drafting Baylor players, Baylor players have not done much in the NFL except for Mike Singletary who is a Hall of Famer but if Mims is drafted, he will have my full support and I hope he will have a good/great career with our Vikings and I heard that Mims is a huge Vikings fan which is cool

[Husker Vike]

I'm not against Mims, I just wonder how extensive of a route tree they had him run. What film I have seen is they run mostly out of spread sets and he just was able to out physical DB's and run go routes.

[VikingLord]

I'm not against Mims, I just wonder how extensive of a route tree they had him run. What film I have seen is they run mostly out of spread sets and he just was able to out physical DB's and run go routes.

This is from the Walterfootball profile on Mims:

4/21/20: Mims had 66 catches for 1,020 yards with 12 touchdowns in 2019. He was decent at the Senior Bowl and helped himself with a fast 40 at the combine. Mims is a very polarizing prospect around the league. In speaking to team sources, they are all over the board with Mims, as some see him as an early-round pick and think he could be an Allen Robinson-type receiver.


Others really don't like Mims, with some teams grading him on Day 3. The evaluators who don't like Mims say that he was not a separation receiver at Baylor, which the tape proves. TCU's Jeff Gladney, among others, was able to run the route and keep Mims from getting open. Those team evaluators say Mims also has some issues with drops, does not play as fast as his timed speed, and is not great on 50-50 receptions.

Concerns I have on Mims are:

- Production. 12 TDs isn't bad, but it's not great either.
- Ability to generate separation consistently. I haven't watched a lot of him, but after the Treadwell experiment, I'm really reluctant to think a receiver who struggles to gain separation is worth a high pick no matter what else he does well.
- Wide range of opinions. That strongly suggests a player is being helped based on "potential", usually coming from things like fast 40 times or other results on drills or other factors that don't translate well to game day performance. These kinds of players are in every draft. They have major question marks around them, but teams get distracted by these other factors and almost talk themselves into believing they can wring the potential out of the player with the right coaching, time in the weight room, etc. "Potential" players like that might turn out. Sometimes the teams that see that potential are right and the player pans out. Most of the time, though, those players underperform expectations.

Mims in the 4th round is fine. Mims earlier than that is not a risk I would take. He's not a pure "potential" player, but there are a LOT of WRs in this draft who have fewer question marks around them than Mims IMHO.

[Texas Vike]

I'm not against Mims, I just wonder how extensive of a route tree they had him run. What film I have seen is they run mostly out of spread sets and he just was able to out physical DB's and run go routes.

This is from the Walterfootball profile on Mims:

4/21/20: Mims had 66 catches for 1,020 yards with 12 touchdowns in 2019. He was decent at the Senior Bowl and helped himself with a fast 40 at the combine. Mims is a very polarizing prospect around the league. In speaking to team sources, they are all over the board with Mims, as some see him as an early-round pick and think he could be an Allen Robinson-type receiver.


Others really don't like Mims, with some teams grading him on Day 3. The evaluators who don't like Mims say that he was not a separation receiver at Baylor, which the tape proves. TCU's Jeff Gladney, among others, was able to run the route and keep Mims from getting open. Those team evaluators say Mims also has some issues with drops, does not play as fast as his timed speed, and is not great on 50-50 receptions.

Concerns I have on Mims are:

- Production. 12 TDs isn't bad, but it's not great either.
- Ability to generate separation consistently. I haven't watched a lot of him, but after the Treadwell experiment, I'm really reluctant to think a receiver who struggles to gain separation is worth a high pick no matter what else he does well.
- Wide range of opinions. That strongly suggests a player is being helped based on "potential", usually coming from things like fast 40 times or other results on drills or other factors that don't translate well to game day performance. These kinds of players are in every draft. They have major question marks around them, but teams get distracted by these other factors and almost talk themselves into believing they can wring the potential out of the player with the right coaching, time in the weight room, etc. "Potential" players like that might turn out. Sometimes the teams that see that potential are right and the player pans out. Most of the time, though, those players underperform expectations.

Mims in the 4th round is fine. Mims earlier than that is not a risk I would take. He's not a pure "potential" player, but there are a LOT of WRs in this draft who have fewer question marks around them than Mims IMHO.

Good write up.

As a Longhorn and Horned Frog fan, I dislike Baylor and have since I moved to Texas in 2002; they are kind of the equivalent of the Packers--a team and institution you love to hate. But I wouldn't let that make me biased against any player the Vikings might choose. Trying to be objective with Mims, I share your same qualms. I went back and reviewed TCU vs. Baylor from this past season, a game that illustrated TCU's frustrating season perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gshd8bu ... ure=onebox

I decided to post it here because three prospects that the Vikings might be looking at for their picks 22 and 25 are on the field (Gladney, Mims, and Reagor), so it might be of interest. Watching highlights and looking at stats is one thing. Watching games is another.

If you take the time to watch it (8 minute summary), you'll see why Jalen Reagor had a down year (the freshman QB was horrendous). You won't see Mims do anything during the defensive battle of regular time (9-6 TCU win until Baylor's back up kicker nails a 51 yard FG with 30 seconds), because Gladney shut him down.

Then, in the first and second OTs, you'll see Mims score two TDs because he was matched up against a freshman CB instead of Gladney. So he ended up with like 50 yards total, 2 TDs, but that was after a game of being almost entirely shut out by Gladney.

[VikingsVictorious]

I'm not against Mims, I just wonder how extensive of a route tree they had him run. What film I have seen is they run mostly out of spread sets and he just was able to out physical DB's and run go routes.

This is from the Walterfootball profile on Mims:

4/21/20: Mims had 66 catches for 1,020 yards with 12 touchdowns in 2019. He was decent at the Senior Bowl and helped himself with a fast 40 at the combine. Mims is a very polarizing prospect around the league. In speaking to team sources, they are all over the board with Mims, as some see him as an early-round pick and think he could be an Allen Robinson-type receiver.


Others really don't like Mims, with some teams grading him on Day 3. The evaluators who don't like Mims say that he was not a separation receiver at Baylor, which the tape proves. TCU's Jeff Gladney, among others, was able to run the route and keep Mims from getting open. Those team evaluators say Mims also has some issues with drops, does not play as fast as his timed speed, and is not great on 50-50 receptions.

Concerns I have on Mims are:

- Production. 12 TDs isn't bad, but it's not great either.
- Ability to generate separation consistently. I haven't watched a lot of him, but after the Treadwell experiment, I'm really reluctant to think a receiver who struggles to gain separation is worth a high pick no matter what else he does well.
- Wide range of opinions. That strongly suggests a player is being helped based on "potential", usually coming from things like fast 40 times or other results on drills or other factors that don't translate well to game day performance. These kinds of players are in every draft. They have major question marks around them, but teams get distracted by these other factors and almost talk themselves into believing they can wring the potential out of the player with the right coaching, time in the weight room, etc. "Potential" players like that might turn out. Sometimes the teams that see that potential are right and the player pans out. Most of the time, though, those players underperform expectations.

Mims in the 4th round is fine. Mims earlier than that is not a risk I would take. He's not a pure "potential" player, but there are a LOT of WRs in this draft who have fewer question marks around them than Mims IMHO.

Mims in the first round is fine. In what world is 28 TDs and 2 1000 yard receiving seasons out of 3 at a major college program not great production. He wasn't decent at the Senior bowl. All reports are he was dominant at the Senior bowl. As for lack of separation simply not true. He got separation most of the time. Put all of that together with his elite plus measurables and he is virtually zero risk. Here's what PFF has to say about Mims looking at the good, the bad, and the ugly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FQ-KoI6EE
About the only negative was an above average drop rate. Mostly associated with his junior year the only season he didn't record 1000 yards. Turns out he played through a broken hand the entire season.
Baylor WR Denzel Mims played his entire junior year with a broken hand, which could be part of the issue revolving around all the drops that year. (Ian Rapoport on Twitter)
Fantasy Impact:
One of the biggest question marks surrounding Mims heading into the Draft is his issue with drops. Now that we know he played his junior year at Baylor with a broken hand, are there any issues with Mims’ game? He’s got the size and speed that can get any coach or scout very excited. There’s been reports that Mims is a top-3 receiver in this draft class, and if the drops issue has been resolved, let’s see if he’s not a guy that goes earlier than expected in the first round.

PFF still sees him as a sure fire first round pick.

[VikingsVictorious]

This is from the Walterfootball profile on Mims:



Concerns I have on Mims are:

- Production. 12 TDs isn't bad, but it's not great either.
- Ability to generate separation consistently. I haven't watched a lot of him, but after the Treadwell experiment, I'm really reluctant to think a receiver who struggles to gain separation is worth a high pick no matter what else he does well.
- Wide range of opinions. That strongly suggests a player is being helped based on "potential", usually coming from things like fast 40 times or other results on drills or other factors that don't translate well to game day performance. These kinds of players are in every draft. They have major question marks around them, but teams get distracted by these other factors and almost talk themselves into believing they can wring the potential out of the player with the right coaching, time in the weight room, etc. "Potential" players like that might turn out. Sometimes the teams that see that potential are right and the player pans out. Most of the time, though, those players underperform expectations.

Mims in the 4th round is fine. Mims earlier than that is not a risk I would take. He's not a pure "potential" player, but there are a LOT of WRs in this draft who have fewer question marks around them than Mims IMHO.

Good write up.

As a Longhorn and Horned Frog fan, I dislike Baylor and have since I moved to Texas in 2002; they are kind of the equivalent of the Packers--a team and institution you love to hate. But I wouldn't let that make me biased against any player the Vikings might choose. Trying to be objective with Mims, I share your same qualms. I went back and reviewed TCU vs. Baylor from this past season, a game that illustrated TCU's frustrating season perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gshd8bu ... ure=onebox

I decided to post it here because three prospects that the Vikings might be looking at for their picks 22 and 25 are on the field (Gladney, Mims, and Reagor), so it might be of interest. Watching highlights and looking at stats is one thing. Watching games is another.

If you take the time to watch it (8 minute summary), you'll see why Jalen Reagor had a down year (the freshman QB was horrendous). You won't see Mims do anything during the defensive battle of regular time (9-6 TCU win until Baylor's back up kicker nails a 51 yard FG with 30 seconds), because Gladney shut him down.

Then, in the first and second OTs, you'll see Mims score two TDs because he was matched up against a freshman CB instead of Gladney. So he ended up with like 50 yards total, 2 TDs, but that was after a game of being almost entirely shut out by Gladney.

Gladney is a very good CB. He had a good game against Mims. One game which he was shut down in regulation and then came up huge in OT. I'd rather look at the career. One game in his college career when he was the hero of that game in OT isn't going to turn me off on him.
I also like Reagor and Gladney a lot and would not be disappointed at all if the Vikings first round is all TCU.

[fiestavike]

Count me as not a Mims fan. He makes a lot of contested catches, but he won't be making any contested catches as a Viking, and he's not great at getting separation against college players. He's worth a gamble later in the draft, I wouldn't touch him in the 1st.

[fiestavike]

Good write up.

As a Longhorn and Horned Frog fan, I dislike Baylor and have since I moved to Texas in 2002; they are kind of the equivalent of the Packers--a team and institution you love to hate. But I wouldn't let that make me biased against any player the Vikings might choose. Trying to be objective with Mims, I share your same qualms. I went back and reviewed TCU vs. Baylor from this past season, a game that illustrated TCU's frustrating season perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gshd8bu ... ure=onebox

I decided to post it here because three prospects that the Vikings might be looking at for their picks 22 and 25 are on the field (Gladney, Mims, and Reagor), so it might be of interest. Watching highlights and looking at stats is one thing. Watching games is another.

If you take the time to watch it (8 minute summary), you'll see why Jalen Reagor had a down year (the freshman QB was horrendous). You won't see Mims do anything during the defensive battle of regular time (9-6 TCU win until Baylor's back up kicker nails a 51 yard FG with 30 seconds), because Gladney shut him down.

Then, in the first and second OTs, you'll see Mims score two TDs because he was matched up against a freshman CB instead of Gladney. So he ended up with like 50 yards total, 2 TDs, but that was after a game of being almost entirely shut out by Gladney.

Gladney is a very good CB. He had a good game against Mims. One game which he was shut down in regulation and then came up huge in OT. I'd rather look at the career. One game in his college career when he was the hero of that game in OT isn't going to turn me off on him.
I also like Reagor and Gladney a lot and would not be disappointed at all if the Vikings first round is all TCU.

Then get Blacklock at 58?

[Texas Vike]

Good write up.

As a Longhorn and Horned Frog fan, I dislike Baylor and have since I moved to Texas in 2002; they are kind of the equivalent of the Packers--a team and institution you love to hate. But I wouldn't let that make me biased against any player the Vikings might choose. Trying to be objective with Mims, I share your same qualms. I went back and reviewed TCU vs. Baylor from this past season, a game that illustrated TCU's frustrating season perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gshd8bu ... ure=onebox

I decided to post it here because three prospects that the Vikings might be looking at for their picks 22 and 25 are on the field (Gladney, Mims, and Reagor), so it might be of interest. Watching highlights and looking at stats is one thing. Watching games is another.

If you take the time to watch it (8 minute summary), you'll see why Jalen Reagor had a down year (the freshman QB was horrendous). You won't see Mims do anything during the defensive battle of regular time (9-6 TCU win until Baylor's back up kicker nails a 51 yard FG with 30 seconds), because Gladney shut him down.

Then, in the first and second OTs, you'll see Mims score two TDs because he was matched up against a freshman CB instead of Gladney. So he ended up with like 50 yards total, 2 TDs, but that was after a game of being almost entirely shut out by Gladney.

Gladney is a very good CB. He had a good game against Mims. One game which he was shut down in regulation and then came up huge in OT. I'd rather look at the career. One game in his college career when he was the hero of that game in OT isn't going to turn me off on him.
I also like Reagor and Gladney a lot and would not be disappointed at all if the Vikings first round is all TCU.

By "looking at his career" do you mean "looking at his stats sheet and highlights on youtube"? Or are you a Baylor fan and you watched Mims closely all season?

I do my best to NOT watch the Baylor Bears, but since they are a rival for my two college teams and I live in Big 12 country, I end up seeing them play at least 3-4 times a year. I'm guessing that's 3-4 more times a year than most folks on this board. Mims scares me as a prospect, honestly. I can see why there are such varied opinions on him among NFL GMs.

[VikingsVictorious]

Gladney is a very good CB. He had a good game against Mims. One game which he was shut down in regulation and then came up huge in OT. I'd rather look at the career. One game in his college career when he was the hero of that game in OT isn't going to turn me off on him.
I also like Reagor and Gladney a lot and would not be disappointed at all if the Vikings first round is all TCU.

By "looking at his career" do you mean "looking at his stats sheet and highlights on youtube"? Or are you a Baylor fan and you watched Mims closely all season?

I do my best to NOT watch the Baylor Bears, but since they are a rival for my two college teams and I live in Big 12 country, I end up seeing them play at least 3-4 times a year. I'm guessing that's 3-4 more times a year than most folks on this board. Mims scares me as a prospect, honestly. I can see why there are such varied opinions on him among NFL GMs.

Video breakdown, scouting reports and yes his STATS. Reagor didn't do much his senior year. Sure his QB sucked. Reagor's stats are dwarfed by Mims. Mims is bigger and faster than Reagor unless you believe a "Pro Day" where Reagor was 2/10th of a second faster than his combine. Never take pro days seriously particularly one in which virtually nobody attended. All that said if we come out of this draft with either of them I'm going to be a happy camper. Separation questions should be answered by this Senior Bowl footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r_9ZBwmjMc

[Texas Vike]

By "looking at his career" do you mean "looking at his stats sheet and highlights on youtube"? Or are you a Baylor fan and you watched Mims closely all season?

I do my best to NOT watch the Baylor Bears, but since they are a rival for my two college teams and I live in Big 12 country, I end up seeing them play at least 3-4 times a year. I'm guessing that's 3-4 more times a year than most folks on this board. Mims scares me as a prospect, honestly. I can see why there are such varied opinions on him among NFL GMs.

Video breakdown, scouting reports and yes his STATS. Reagor didn't do much his senior year. Sure his QB sucked. Reagor's stats are dwarfed by Mims. Mims is bigger and faster than Reagor unless you believe a "Pro Day" where Reagor was 2/10th of a second faster than his combine. Never take pro days seriously particularly one in which virtually nobody attended. All that said if we come out of this draft with either of them I'm going to be a happy camper. Separation questions should be answered by this Senior Bowl footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r_9ZBwmjMc

Didn't answer my questions, but that's great that they did for you. I wish I could say that I trust Vikings' scouts, but they have brought us some first round losers at the position. So it's simply not easy to predict NFL success, even for guys who do this professionally and ostensibly with a lot more time and resources than us fans.

Both Reagor and Mims are fast, but on the field folks who have watched Big 12 football will tell you that Reagor is faster on the field, in games, with pads on. Even my buddy who is a huge Baylor fan would admit that.

Edit to add: if you want to (ignorantly, IMO) dismiss the QB issue for Reagor, compare 2018 stats for both guys. Mims: 55 rec, 794 yards, 8 TDs. Reagor: 72, 1061, 9. Who dwarfed whom?

[VikingsVictorious]

Video breakdown, scouting reports and yes his STATS. Reagor didn't do much his senior year. Sure his QB sucked. Reagor's stats are dwarfed by Mims. Mims is bigger and faster than Reagor unless you believe a "Pro Day" where Reagor was 2/10th of a second faster than his combine. Never take pro days seriously particularly one in which virtually nobody attended. All that said if we come out of this draft with either of them I'm going to be a happy camper. Separation questions should be answered by this Senior Bowl footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r_9ZBwmjMc

Didn't answer my questions, but that's great that they did for you. I wish I could say that I trust Vikings' scouts, but they have brought us some first round losers at the position. So it's simply not easy to predict NFL success, even for guys who do this professionally and ostensibly with a lot more time and resources than us fans.

Both Reagor and Mims are fast, but on the field folks who have watched Big 12 football will tell you that Reagor is faster on the field, in games, with pads on. Even my buddy who is a huge Baylor fan would admit that.

Edit to add: if you want to (ignorantly, IMO) dismiss the QB issue for Reagor, compare 2018 stats for both guys. Mims: 55 rec, 794 yards, 8 TDs. Reagor: 72, 1061, 9. Who dwarfed whom?

If that didn't answer separation questions I don't know what to say. He got separation all but one time.

Reagor is very fast on the field. You could be right that he plays faster. He gets better separation. I didn't dismiss bad QB play at all. I specifically pointed it out. One season out of 3 when Mims was playing with a Broken Hand Reagor had better production. For their careers Mims dominated. However, in Reagor's favor when they were both Freshman Reagor already broke out while Mims didn't break out until his sophomore season. The three year comparison is Mims sophomore through senior season, but it's Reagor's freshman through junior seasons. I don't believe either redshirted.

In the end the reason I prefer Mims is the catch radius.