J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:03 pmSeriously though, I'm not sure these superstar mid-rounders come along all that frequently. In 2012, when the Seahawks took Wilson at 75, we took Matt Kalil (ugh), Harrison Smith (good pick) and Josh Robinson (swing and a miss) ahead of him. So it could be said that was a miss (although Christian Ponder was just about to take over the reigns, so we were SET!!!!!!!).
He's not a superstar but the Vikings are currently paying $84 million for a QB who was drafted in the 4th round in 2012.
In other words, in a year in which the Vikings QB depth chart read:
1.) Christian Ponder
2.) Joe freakin' Webb
3.) McLeod Bethel-Thompson
... they showed no interest in drafting a "Plan B" to play behind Ponder or improve their depth, despite some obviously solid prospects being available in the 3rd and 4th round. Obviously, nobody knew Wilson would become the star he is today and Cousins is... problematic but Spielman hasn't exactly been alert to these possibilities or, if he has, hasn't been willing to actually spend draft picks on them.
Other than that, over the past decade, only Dak Prescott (4th round 2016) and Jimmy Garoppolo (2nd round 2014) have been remotely successful other than the high first-rounders. Who else are we talking about? Jacoby Brissett? Brett Hundley? DeShone Kizer? C.J. Beathard? Mason Rudolph? That's who we're picking from. Brady was 20 years ago. Rodgers was 15 years ago.
Kirk says "Ouch". That stung a little.
Nicely played, Jim. You got me there.
Well there you go. We found our "diamond" ... 4th-round draft choice Kirk Cousins!
Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
S197 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:47 am
Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
If you would go back and be able to look at all my posts about Cousins you would find that I've never been a Cousins hater nor a Cousins super supporter. I've tried to give him credit when due but also be provide honest negative commentary on his game when warranted.
When he played well and did great things I praised him for it but also gave those around him the credit for doing their jobs to make it happen. Conversely, when he has blown it and made mistakes, I would also try and point out deficiencies of those around him also if need be. But if his mistakes were terrible and pretty much all on him I also wasn't afraid to call it like it was .
But if many of you may remember, I did a few posts the day of ,or the day after it was announced that we signed him that has come to fruition.
I am in the unique situation of being able to to get some first hand , personal knowledge of Cousins as a person and as a player because of the fact that the Redskins starting guard in place when RG3 and Kirk were drafted, and ended up sliding back over to his natural position of center and was the starting center for Cousins whole career except for Kirk's final season due to the fact that Kory retired that year after 9 seasons due to the fact the injuries were piling up and also the fact he was so intelligent with his money and trust me , his kids kids kids kids will be set up for life lol.
But when it was first announced that we had signed Cousins, my first post was on the subject was my repeating the text that Kory's brother showed me that he had just recieved from Kory about the signing, that he wanted him to pass along to me.
He said tell Proffitt ( that's me lol) " Kirk's a great guy, all of us lineman love the guy and he's a great teammate and is a great QB, but the bad part is that he is gonna break your heart when it matters most."
I have remembered those words for the past 2 seasons. And like I said the didn't come from some TV talking head or someone's personal guess. It came from the guy who looked him in the eye every play in the huddle, called his line protection and snapped him the ball every play. So , it's a credible source. Unfortunately, as time goes on, I see that his knowledgeable assessment is coming true more often than not.
I know it's a team game, and Kirk has had some great moments. I will give him the credit there.
But I also won't blindly support the guy because I have also witnessed way too many plays that were there for the successful taking that he , because of his lack of recognition or just pure bad play, missed the opportunity on.
I kept hoping it would get better and better, but it just seems like when it starts to look like the light is gonna start shining bright and that corner has been turned and the narrative on him is finally squashed... well, we all know the story, the next week it all painfully comes back.
Its unfortunate because I believe all the physical skills are there, but something upstairs is just too inconsistent and there is some sort of confidence disconnect that rears its ugly head. I thought that the Saints game was gonna provide the ammo to shoot that demon down. But this past Saturday against the Niners it appeared again.
I wanna believe so bad that the guy is the franchise QB that we have been pining for to get us over that stupid hump.
I'm sorry, but just my honest opinion , it just isn't the case. I wish it was. Painfully wish it was.
I just wanna die as a Super Bowl Champion Viking Fan!!
S197 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:47 am
Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
All QBs have guys open on plays and don't hit them. Lamar the best in the game showed that. Brady just showed it. It happens Sage isn't qualified to do this. He couldn't see an open guy two feet in front of him. It's easy to look at a game were we got destroyed and picked out the crap. Why don't he pull up the 1st game of the season. Not too many open guys were missed. Cousins blew this game. He looked like a guy that never played football. The entire team blew. We couldn't move the ball at all. Cook blew. As a team we didn't show up. Looking at an a$$ kicking is easy. Look at the Giant win. Our team and Cousins looked like the best team/QB in the game. We were heavy road dogs with half our secondary out and a tired group of players with very little time off. I get trapped in this also. Bad game to judge the guys.
S197 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:47 am
Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
All QBs have guys open on plays and don't hit them. Lamar the best in the game showed that. Brady just showed it. It happens Sage isn't qualified to do this. He couldn't see an open guy two feet in front of him. It's easy to look at a game were we got destroyed and picked out the crap. Why don't he pull up the 1st game of the season. Not too many open guys were missed. Cousins blew this game. He looked like a guy that never played football. The entire team blew. We couldn't move the ball at all. Cook blew. As a team we didn't show up. Looking at an a$$ kicking is easy. Look at the Giant win. Our team and Cousins looked like the best team/QB in the game. We were heavy road dogs with half our secondary out and a tired group of players with very little time off. I get trapped in this also. Bad game to judge the guys.
Lamar, the best in the game?
Yes, all QB's miss open guys...don't see them or bad throws. But this should happen, what?..maybe 10% of the time? So 30 attempts= 3 missed opportunities. Here's the thing. The bigger the game, the higher that number seems to go for Cousins. Like I said before, if you look at the Saints game, he had just as many bad throws and bad decisions. But they are overlooked because of the two great throws in OT. The only game that I defined as big that he performed very well in was the Seahawks game. But even in that game, he had chance one last time to lead the team to a win, but didn't.
I was hoping that the win against the Saints would somehow ignite something internally. Give him the calm confidence needed to play in the big games the same way he plays in most of the other games. Saturday's performance gave no evidence to that. I really want bigger success for him, but I just don't think it's going to happen.
CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 am
All QBs have guys open on plays and don't hit them. Lamar the best in the game showed that. Brady just showed it. It happens Sage isn't qualified to do this. He couldn't see an open guy two feet in front of him. It's easy to look at a game were we got destroyed and picked out the crap. Why don't he pull up the 1st game of the season. Not too many open guys were missed. Cousins blew this game. He looked like a guy that never played football. The entire team blew. We couldn't move the ball at all. Cook blew. As a team we didn't show up. Looking at an a$$ kicking is easy. Look at the Giant win. Our team and Cousins looked like the best team/QB in the game. We were heavy road dogs with half our secondary out and a tired group of players with very little time off. I get trapped in this also. Bad game to judge the guys.
Lamar, the best in the game?
Yes, all QB's miss open guys...don't see them or bad throws. But this should happen, what?..maybe 10% of the time? So 30 attempts= 3 missed opportunities. Here's the thing. The bigger the game, the higher that number seems to go for Cousins. Like I said before, if you look at the Saints game, he had just as many bad throws and bad decisions. But they are overlooked because of the two great throws in OT. The only game that I defined as big that he performed very well in was the Seahawks game. But even in that game, he had chance one last time to lead the team to a win, but didn't.
I was hoping that the win against the Saints would somehow ignite something internally. Give him the calm confidence needed to play in the big games the same way he plays in most of the other games. Saturday's performance gave no evidence to that. I really want bigger success for him, but I just don't think it's going to happen.
Listen I'm not saying Cousins is a top flight or the best in the game. He made some throws that were embarrassing. Like that bounce pass to Diggs. He made other bad throws also. He proved that he couldn't pull our team out of that game. I look for a QB every year. I wanted us to draft Drew Lock last year and we passed. I was pissed and didn't pay attention after that. He sucked this year but he was a rookie and it's not over for him yet. He will probably be a bum but he has the physical tools I like. I give Speilman credit for trying to get the position right. He could have sat still with Keenum. Many here would have liked that and thought that was the best move. Elway felt that way also. The guy is a great backup. Can't hold a starting gig. I said Lamar because I think he is considered one of the best based on what I read and his stats. He's a winner. Well he is 0-2 in big game playoffs.Somethings wrong. He can't pull them out. And that was a home favorite with no travel. Not a road dog. That's a huge advantage. We made the playoffs and beat a dam good team on the road. We hit the wall. That 49er team played great. I wasn't impressed with Grap and I thought his accuracy was bad. Even his completions took great catches and took the receiver out of stride. But he made some very good handoffs. Bottom line we need to draft a guy. That won't happen this year.
CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 am
Bad game to judge the guys.
If you want to reserve judgment for a divisional round playoff game and make excuses for the team, be my guest, but to me, this level is what teams do all the offseason work, the preseason, and the long regular season and endure all that travel and injuries to get to. If you're not going to judge them at this stage, why bother judging them at all, much less based on a thumping of a bottom dweller Giants team that had serious and easily exploitable issues throughout its defense?
I mean, come on. These guys are professionals. This is what they do. They do what they do not for fun or for pure entertainment but to try to get to and win Superbowls. To come out in such a key game and lay such a complete egg *begs* for judgment and critical analysis IMHO, if for no other reason than I assume that next year we all (and by "we", I mean the players, coaches, GM and owners in addition to the fans) all hope for a better end result. So what is it going to take to make that next step? Or should everyone just be content with the result and clap for the teams that somehow manage to take it?
Been a fan too long now to just accept excuses. The Vikings were thoroughly outclassed by the 49ers, which means changes have to be made this offseason so next season there is a chance it's the Vikings who get the first round bye in the playoffs and hand out drubbings and its the fans of other teams that are searching for answers and making excuses. Personally, I'm tired of it always being us.
CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 am
Bad game to judge the guys.
If you want to reserve judgment for a divisional round playoff game and make excuses for the team, be my guest, but to me, this level is what teams do all the offseason work, the preseason, and the long regular season and endure all that travel and injuries to get to. If you're not going to judge them at this stage, why bother judging them at all, much less based on a thumping of a bottom dweller Giants team that had serious and easily exploitable issues throughout its defense?
I mean, come on. These guys are professionals. This is what they do. They do what they do not for fun or for pure entertainment but to try to get to and win Superbowls. To come out in such a key game and lay such a complete egg *begs* for judgment and critical analysis IMHO, if for no other reason than I assume that next year we all (and by "we", I mean the players, coaches, GM and owners in addition to the fans) all hope for a better end result. So what is it going to take to make that next step? Or should everyone just be content with the result and clap for the teams that somehow manage to take it?
Been a fan too long now to just accept excuses. The Vikings were thoroughly outclassed by the 49ers, which means changes have to be made this offseason so next season there is a chance it's the Vikings who get the first round bye in the playoffs and hand out drubbings and its the fans of other teams that are searching for answers and making excuses. Personally, I'm tired of it always being us.
If there's one thing we should have learned from this year's playoffs it's that THE REGULAR SEASON MATTERS.
Home-field advantage is big. The bye is HUGE. Without the bye, it's likely San Francisco would have been eliminated on Wild Card weekend. They weren't the same defense without Ford, Alexander and Tartt, and those guys weren't ready on Wild Card weekend. The Vikings, on the other hand, expended everything they had to beat the Saints, then had five days off to play a rested 49er team. That's not an excuse, but it's a fact. Mike Zimmer himself said they just didn't have the same energy level as they had the week before.
That's why so many people weren't happy with Zimmer's "it's not the end of the world" comment after the loss to Seattle. Every regular season game matters. If you're a team that fancies itself a contender, you need to get that bye. It lets you get healthy. Remember how Dalvin Cook looked against the Saints? It reminded me of the one preseason carry he had, the 85-yard touchdown. Just a burst and explosion and a gear that nobody else had, mainly because he'd rested since the LAC game. Against SF, he wasn't the same. His line didn't do him any favors, but Dalvin wasn't quite the same, either. Should we be surprised? He had 30 touches against the Saints and 5 days rest.
I like Zimmer, but sometimes his whole, "We gotta clean up some things and we'll be alright" attitude feels like he doesn't value the regular season. I'm sure that's not the case, but the urgency needs to start in September, not December.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:45 pm
[Remember how Dalvin Cook looked against the Saints? It reminded me of the one preseason carry he had, the 85-yard touchdown. Just a burst and explosion and a gear that nobody else had, mainly because he'd rested since the LAC game. Against SF, he wasn't the same. His line didn't do him any favors, but Dalvin wasn't quite the same, either. Should we be surprised? He had 30 touches against the Saints and 5 days rest.
He didn't look right in the 2nd half of the Saints game either. I have my suspicions that he still wasn't all the way healthy. Maybe he was just tired, but it seems like more than that. He didn't look comfortable at all, and he wasn't making people miss (or breaking tackles).
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:45 pm
[Remember how Dalvin Cook looked against the Saints? It reminded me of the one preseason carry he had, the 85-yard touchdown. Just a burst and explosion and a gear that nobody else had, mainly because he'd rested since the LAC game. Against SF, he wasn't the same. His line didn't do him any favors, but Dalvin wasn't quite the same, either. Should we be surprised? He had 30 touches against the Saints and 5 days rest.
He didn't look right in the 2nd half of the Saints game either. I have my suspicions that he still wasn't all the way healthy. Maybe he was just tired, but it seems like more than that. He didn't look comfortable at all, and he wasn't making people miss (or breaking tackles).
Speaking of Cook, he's up for an extension this offseason if Spielman wants to avoid him becoming a free agent after next season. What should be done with that?
On the one hand, Cook is a dynamic, game-changing player when he's healthy. The problem has been he hasn't stayed healthy for a full season yet.
And then you have Mattison up behind him. Mattison isn't the game-changer that Cook is, but he's not bad, either. One wonders if an improved offensive line with a combo of Mattison/Boone could still get it done for acceptable cost.
I don't know what Cook would fetch on the open market. In theory, it could be quite a haul, but his injury history probably puts a cap on what he could realistically expect. It's probable that the Vikings can work something out with him this offseason that is a win for both sides in terms of extending his contract and making it more cap friendly. But Cook might want to test the free agent waters, especially if he feels like the team isn't moving in a positive direction.
So much depends on how Spielman works the cap early in the offseason. Vikes are like $10 million over as of today. They have to cut that down.
S197 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:47 am
Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
This is the kind of breakdown we fans need. Some of these are pretty inexcusable. It's tough to watch. It reminds me of the Bears game early in the season.
S197 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:47 am
Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
This is the kind of breakdown we fans need. Some of these are pretty inexcusable. It's tough to watch. It reminds me of the Bears game early in the season.
If you go to the Should the Vikings trade for Joe Barrow thread and read my reply, this here is exactly what brought me to the conclusion posted there. Very concerning
I just wanna die as a Super Bowl Champion Viking Fan!!
S197 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:47 am
Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
This is the kind of breakdown we fans need. Some of these are pretty inexcusable. It's tough to watch. It reminds me of the Bears game early in the season.
I definitely wish we could see this more often. Diggs throwing his helmet may have some validity. Let’s not forget Thielens comments last year as well. I think both are trying not to throw Cousins under the bus but the frustration just leaks out at times.
