J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:25 am
Not to speak for fiestavike, but I think what he means is that Kirk Cousins needs to be LESS temperamental in stressful situations like end-of-game comeback drives. Many say he struggles to control the emotions of the moment. In other words, he gets nervous. Tight.
I don't know whether that's true, but the evidence is there. A perfect example is the fourth-down play late in the game at Seattle. He chose the wrong receiver, which is a mental thing, not physical. I'm pretty sure that if he'd seen the open man, he could have physically gotten him the football. Instead, he appeared to panic a bit and tried to force a low-percentage throw to Irv Smith. He missed the open man (don't remember who it was, but it was called out on this board multiple times).
Some QBs seem to have icewater in their veins and almost play better when the pressure is at its highest. Russell Wilson comes to mind. Obviously Brady is another.
Although I do want to specify, I am not just talking about pressure in a football sense, but pressure in a psychological sense. There are games where Kirk comes out and is obviously tight, aiming his passes, trying not to err. In those cases his response to physical pressure is often at its worst.
Holy heck! I forgot about that play.
Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of panicking in the pocket.
Clint Hurdle (Pirates ex-manager) used to refer to players as having a "Slow heart beat"....no matter the situation. Haven't you ever met someone in life that you can tell, just by the look on their face that they are nervous/uncomfortable? They have trouble even looking you in the eye. This is what Kirk reminds me of. He just seems to have a totally different demeanor in high pressure situations. And I'm pretty sure he isn't one of these "Slow Heart Beat" players.
Absolutely not. If you want to win a meaningless game and put up 300 yards and 4 TDs, Cousins is your man. If there is a MUST WIN game with the season on the line, look elsewhere.
VikeFanInEagleLand wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:04 am
Clint Hurdle (Pirates ex-manager) used to refer to players as having a "Slow heart beat"....no matter the situation. Haven't you ever met someone in life that you can tell, just by the look on their face that they are nervous/uncomfortable? They have trouble even looking you in the eye. This is what Kirk reminds me of. He just seems to have a totally different demeanor in high pressure situations. And I'm pretty sure he isn't one of these "Slow Heart Beat" players.
That's about right. I don't want to take it too far, because playing QB in the NFL in front of millions of people is a sincerly high pressure situation that very few human beings could handle. Still, among NFL QBs, I'd say Kirk has one of the fastest heartbeats out there.
I mentioned in another recent thread that I have been watching the Vikings since game one in 1961 when I was ten years old. My dad was a huge Gophers fan and a fan of Van Brocklin so he insisted that I follow our new team with him. I think with the Vikings and all teams getting to the big dance depends on all parts of the roster coming together at the same time, some good fortune avoiding injury and a few lucky bounces. Even the strongest Vikings teams as good as they were over the years couldn't catch a break from lady luck. It seems like either we have a great offense or a great defense or are strong at certain positions but the key to winning it all is for everything to come together at the right time.
Over the past decade it has always been something. Remember not too many years ago when we spent a few years dealing with question marks at wide receiver? Now it appears that the weaknesses are aging players on defense, a porous secondary and ongoing troubles at offensive line. We went all in on Cousins thinking he was the missing piece of the puzzle but now we're seeing players skills dropping off in other areas as they reach the end of their prime. It seems to me that efforts to fix things are like the game "whack a mole", whenever we try to hammer on one weakness another pops up somewhere else. On paper I have cheered most everything the Vikings have done over the past decade thinking that it sounded like a good roster move, draft choice or player coming to us through free agency.
So now the question at hand, can Kirk carry the team on his shoulders. I would say yes, if he gets on a hot streak and this team gels and plays a great game they are capable of winning and Cousins is capable of a game winning drive. Will it happen? Well, I'm posting on a Vikings message board so I want to say yes he will but there are so many factors and a lot of luck not to mention how loud it's going to be.
I think in my case at 68 years old and the Vikings obviously facing another rebuild with one hand tied behind their back by the Cousins contract I question whether my life long dream of seeing them win the Super Bowl will happen in my lifetime. So rather than bet on Cousins orchestrating a game winning drive the wagers should be placed on whether or not I will ever see them win the Super Bowl in my lifetime. We have come ever so close so many times and we've gone through some nightmare coaching staffs and lack of talent on the field but at the end of the day we haven't won the big one and I'm skeptical that I'll ever see that happen.
Rodgers, Brady, Wilson and their ilk have a reputation for winning. I honestly think that has a big affect on how their teammates play. They know when those guys are having a bad game, if they just keep their QB in it, he will turn it around and help them win.
Watching that Packer game, I started to wonder if Cousins' teammates have started to buy into Cousins reputation for losing? Are we as fans the problem with our perpetuating the talk of Cousins being unable to win big games?
CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:59 am
I don't even know how temperamental fits with a pro sports. As I said I don't even know what it means so I looked it up. Here it is.
A temperamental person is someone whose mood often changes very suddenly. Is that your view or is it different.
Based on this simple meaning isn't that every player? I've seen Diggs up and down. When he missed that trick player he was smiling because he knew he blew it. His bad play cost us a possible score in a must win game. That's a temperamental player. One minute up next down. I can go through example after example but it would take too much time. So basically Kirk needs to show no emotion to be successful I guess. Troy Aikman showed emotion. I've seen both sides. He had success once the OL was built and he had a back and a...... I guess I don't understand what temperamental has to do with Kirk's play. IMO this OL we have sucks. Kirk is scared right now because this Jordan guy is a beast and has great movement and will run by or through this joke LT we have. I'd be scared to. Your right he is temperamental.
Not to speak for fiestavike, but I think what he means is that Kirk Cousins needs to be LESS temperamental in stressful situations like end-of-game comeback drives. Many say he struggles to control the emotions of the moment. In other words, he gets nervous. Tight.
I don't know whether that's true, but the evidence is there. A perfect example is the fourth-down play late in the game at Seattle. He chose the wrong receiver, which is a mental thing, not physical. I'm pretty sure that if he'd seen the open man, he could have physically gotten him the football. Instead, he appeared to panic a bit and tried to force a low-percentage throw to Irv Smith. He missed the open man (don't remember who it was, but it was called out on this board multiple times).
Some QBs seem to have icewater in their veins and almost play better when the pressure is at its highest. Russell Wilson comes to mind. Obviously Brady is another.
Sorry for late response but this Wilson guy is a good QB but people act like he carried the team. He had the LOB behind him. One of the best defenses ever. Wilson lost a Super Bowl when the ice water froze up and he threw the int to butler and lost the game. He beat us this year. I think that team had some rushing yards. That was all Wilson of course. Had nothing to do with the OL dominating the LOS. Wilson is here now again the ice water froze up again and he lost another big game that cost his team big time. Or didn't that happen. There's no ice water involved. If our D plays like the LOB this Sunday Kirk will win the game. All he has to do is take the snap. Let our LOB shut them out and do the scoring. Will Kirk have ice water at that point and be a great winner.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:25 am
Not to speak for fiestavike, but I think what he means is that Kirk Cousins needs to be LESS temperamental in stressful situations like end-of-game comeback drives. Many say he struggles to control the emotions of the moment. In other words, he gets nervous. Tight.
I don't know whether that's true, but the evidence is there. A perfect example is the fourth-down play late in the game at Seattle. He chose the wrong receiver, which is a mental thing, not physical. I'm pretty sure that if he'd seen the open man, he could have physically gotten him the football. Instead, he appeared to panic a bit and tried to force a low-percentage throw to Irv Smith. He missed the open man (don't remember who it was, but it was called out on this board multiple times).
Some QBs seem to have icewater in their veins and almost play better when the pressure is at its highest. Russell Wilson comes to mind. Obviously Brady is another.
Sorry for late response but this Wilson guy is a good QB but people act like he carried the team. He had the LOB behind him. One of the best defenses ever. Wilson lost a Super Bowl when the ice water froze up and he threw the int to butler and lost the game. He beat us this year. I think that team had some rushing yards. That was all Wilson of course. Had nothing to do with the OL dominating the LOS. Wilson is here now again the ice water froze up again and he lost another big game that cost his team big time. Or didn't that happen. There's no ice water involved. If our D plays like the LOB this Sunday Kirk will win the game. All he has to do is take the snap. Let our LOB shut them out and do the scoring. Will Kirk have ice water at that point and be a great winner.
When Jordan blows this bum Reif up and gets to Cousins in about 1/2 a second that is Cousins fault and he is thinking too much. Or he is tense. No crap he's tense. The bum can't block. How about Reif driving this Jordan about 20 yards downfield and bury his #### into the ground. Cousins can stand there and wait for a guy to clear. Why can't that work? He won't be tense. I seen Brady again last week in a must win and his OL didn't block well for him every play and he took some hits. Nothing even hard and he started to tense up. Why is that? What if he was blind sided big time. He would tense up also. I've seen it before. Of course that doesn't happen to him. IMO they all tense up when the heat is coming. A few good licks and it's over.
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:48 pm
Rodgers, Brady, Wilson and their ilk have a reputation for winning. I honestly think that has a big affect on how their teammates play. They know when those guys are having a bad game, if they just keep their QB in it, he will turn it around and help them win.
Watching that Packer game, I started to wonder if Cousins' teammates have started to buy into Cousins reputation for losing? Are we as fans the problem with our perpetuating the talk of Cousins being unable to win big games?
First off what is a winner? Put Brady, who is the ultimate winner, on the Skins do they become SB favorites? Or the Giants. All the sudden Brady becomes a loser. I thought he was a winner. Brady just got beat last week. He took a few hits. Looked like a coward struggling to get off the ground. He wasn't hit hard. And he's looking around pissed off at his OL. He became tense which is a sign of a loser. Cousins does the same loser BS. As I said many times Wilson won Super Bowls for his team. He's the best winner in the game. Well the winner lost last week and cost his team big time. But he's still a winner I guess. IMO he drugged the team down the drain with him. That's a winner? Yes Cousins lost the Packer game. He played like crap. Good thing all the other winners held their end up.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:25 am
Not to speak for fiestavike, but I think what he means is that Kirk Cousins needs to be LESS temperamental in stressful situations like end-of-game comeback drives. Many say he struggles to control the emotions of the moment. In other words, he gets nervous. Tight.
I don't know whether that's true, but the evidence is there. A perfect example is the fourth-down play late in the game at Seattle. He chose the wrong receiver, which is a mental thing, not physical. I'm pretty sure that if he'd seen the open man, he could have physically gotten him the football. Instead, he appeared to panic a bit and tried to force a low-percentage throw to Irv Smith. He missed the open man (don't remember who it was, but it was called out on this board multiple times).
Some QBs seem to have icewater in their veins and almost play better when the pressure is at its highest. Russell Wilson comes to mind. Obviously Brady is another.
Sorry for late response but this Wilson guy is a good QB but people act like he carried the team. He had the LOB behind him. One of the best defenses ever. Wilson lost a Super Bowl when the ice water froze up and he threw the int to butler and lost the game. He beat us this year. I think that team had some rushing yards. That was all Wilson of course. Had nothing to do with the OL dominating the LOS. Wilson is here now again the ice water froze up again and he lost another big game that cost his team big time. Or didn't that happen. There's no ice water involved. If our D plays like the LOB this Sunday Kirk will win the game. All he has to do is take the snap. Let our LOB shut them out and do the scoring. Will Kirk have ice water at that point and be a great winner.
Um, he has carried the team. That’s why he’s 2nd team All-Pro. He’s in the top 20 all time in 4th-quarter comebacks in only 8 seasons. The Seahawks set an NFL record this year for one-score wins. And he holds the all-time record for 4th quarter comebacks in a single season. And I don’t know what you’re talking about, “the ice water froze up again and he lost another big game that cost his team big time.” It was Wilson who drove the team the length of the field in 2 and a half minutes and completed a pass that was stopped literally an inch short of the game-winning score. And by the way, he’s done a lot of this work over his career with a horrible O-line in front of him, and this year’s defense is anything but the LOB.
You can say what you want about Russell Wilson, but I’ll say this. If Kirk Cousins had half his composure late in games, we wouldn’t be having any of these conversations. I support Kirk, but this is still an area he needs to prove himself.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:25 am
Not to speak for fiestavike, but I think what he means is that Kirk Cousins needs to be LESS temperamental in stressful situations like end-of-game comeback drives. Many say he struggles to control the emotions of the moment. In other words, he gets nervous. Tight.
I don't know whether that's true, but the evidence is there. A perfect example is the fourth-down play late in the game at Seattle. He chose the wrong receiver, which is a mental thing, not physical. I'm pretty sure that if he'd seen the open man, he could have physically gotten him the football. Instead, he appeared to panic a bit and tried to force a low-percentage throw to Irv Smith. He missed the open man (don't remember who it was, but it was called out on this board multiple times).
Some QBs seem to have icewater in their veins and almost play better when the pressure is at its highest. Russell Wilson comes to mind. Obviously Brady is another.
Although I do want to specify, I am not just talking about pressure in a football sense, but pressure in a psychological sense. There are games where Kirk comes out and is obviously tight, aiming his passes, trying not to err. In those cases his response to physical pressure is often at its worst.
What makes it worse is there’s a WR (Thielen?) open on the left. He finds the hole in the zone and is at least 10 yards between the nearest two defenders.
CharVike wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:13 am
Sorry for late response but this Wilson guy is a good QB but people act like he carried the team. He had the LOB behind him. One of the best defenses ever. Wilson lost a Super Bowl when the ice water froze up and he threw the int to butler and lost the game. He beat us this year. I think that team had some rushing yards. That was all Wilson of course. Had nothing to do with the OL dominating the LOS. Wilson is here now again the ice water froze up again and he lost another big game that cost his team big time. Or didn't that happen. There's no ice water involved. If our D plays like the LOB this Sunday Kirk will win the game. All he has to do is take the snap. Let our LOB shut them out and do the scoring. Will Kirk have ice water at that point and be a great winner.
Um, he has carried the team. That’s why he’s 2nd team All-Pro. He’s in the top 20 all time in 4th-quarter comebacks in only 8 seasons. The Seahawks set an NFL record this year for one-score wins. And he holds the all-time record for 4th quarter comebacks in a single season. And I don’t know what you’re talking about, “the ice water froze up again and he lost another big game that cost his team big time.” It was Wilson who drove the team the length of the field in 2 and a half minutes and completed a pass that was stopped literally an inch short of the game-winning score. And by the way, he’s done a lot of this work over his career with a horrible O-line in front of him, and this year’s defense is anything but the LOB.
You can say what you want about Russell Wilson, but I’ll say this. If Kirk Cousins had half his composure late in games, we wouldn’t be having any of these conversations. I support Kirk, but this is still an area he needs to prove himself.
Cousins lead us back against the division champion Packers in their house. He was down 21 points. That's hard to make up. He drove us down at the end but he made a mistake and threw an interception. That was his mistake he lost the game for us. But he did get us in position. If we would have just ran the ball I felt we would have won. A cousins win.The Pack couldn't stop Cook all day long. Cousins didn't have a great game. But lead us at the end. Wilson drove his team down and didn't score and lost but that was great. Cousins did basically the same thing and it wasn't good. Not scoring at the end for one is great and for the other it's a colossal failure. Don't take this as I'm saying Cousins is better than Wilson. But Wilson had a very good D when he won a Super Bowl. Our D isn't close to that IMO.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:30 am
Um, he has carried the team. That’s why he’s 2nd team All-Pro. He’s in the top 20 all time in 4th-quarter comebacks in only 8 seasons. The Seahawks set an NFL record this year for one-score wins. And he holds the all-time record for 4th quarter comebacks in a single season. And I don’t know what you’re talking about, “the ice water froze up again and he lost another big game that cost his team big time.” It was Wilson who drove the team the length of the field in 2 and a half minutes and completed a pass that was stopped literally an inch short of the game-winning score. And by the way, he’s done a lot of this work over his career with a horrible O-line in front of him, and this year’s defense is anything but the LOB.
You can say what you want about Russell Wilson, but I’ll say this. If Kirk Cousins had half his composure late in games, we wouldn’t be having any of these conversations. I support Kirk, but this is still an area he needs to prove himself.
Cousins lead us back against the division champion Packers in their house. He was down 21 points. That's hard to make up. He drove us down at the end but he made a mistake and threw an interception. That was his mistake he lost the game for us. But he did get us in position. If we would have just ran the ball I felt we would have won. A cousins win.The Pack couldn't stop Cook all day long. Cousins didn't have a great game. But lead us at the end. Wilson drove his team down and didn't score and lost but that was great. Cousins did basically the same thing and it wasn't good. Not scoring at the end for one is great and for the other it's a colossal failure. Don't take this as I'm saying Cousins is better than Wilson. But Wilson had a very good D when he won a Super Bowl. Our D isn't close to that IMO.
If you’ve read any of my posts, you know I support Cousins. He played great after the first 20 minutes of the Green Bay game ... except that he threw the interception late. How can you see that as anything other than a failure in that situation? I’m one of his most ardent supporters, and I can admit it. Heck, HE admitted it. Wilson got the Seahawks down the field and completed the pass ... it ended up an inch short. So yes, he failed ... but it wasn’t the same. The other problem with your argument is the other 28 times Wilson didn’t fail. That’s how many 4th-quarter comebacks he has in 8 years, which is phenomenal.
This discussion has nothing to do with defenses. It has to do with a quarterback’s ability to lead his team on a late-game drive. Russell Wilson’s body of work proves that he has plenty of that ability. Kirk Cousins’ does not. I’d love for him to change that narrative in these playoffs. Better yet, I’d love to see the Vikings win without the need for heroics. But until Kirk comes through in a late big-game situation, he’s going to known for his failures. Nobody is rooting for him more than me. But it is what it is.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:30 am
Um, he has carried the team. That’s why he’s 2nd team All-Pro. He’s in the top 20 all time in 4th-quarter comebacks in only 8 seasons. The Seahawks set an NFL record this year for one-score wins. And he holds the all-time record for 4th quarter comebacks in a single season. And I don’t know what you’re talking about, “the ice water froze up again and he lost another big game that cost his team big time.” It was Wilson who drove the team the length of the field in 2 and a half minutes and completed a pass that was stopped literally an inch short of the game-winning score. And by the way, he’s done a lot of this work over his career with a horrible O-line in front of him, and this year’s defense is anything but the LOB.
You can say what you want about Russell Wilson, but I’ll say this. If Kirk Cousins had half his composure late in games, we wouldn’t be having any of these conversations. I support Kirk, but this is still an area he needs to prove himself.
Cousins lead us back against the division champion Packers in their house. He was down 21 points. That's hard to make up. He drove us down at the end but he made a mistake and threw an interception. That was his mistake he lost the game for us. But he did get us in position. If we would have just ran the ball I felt we would have won. A cousins win.The Pack couldn't stop Cook all day long. Cousins didn't have a great game. But lead us at the end. Wilson drove his team down and didn't score and lost but that was great. Cousins did basically the same thing and it wasn't good. Not scoring at the end for one is great and for the other it's a colossal failure. Don't take this as I'm saying Cousins is better than Wilson. But Wilson had a very good D when he won a Super Bowl. Our D isn't close to that IMO.
I don't think you can count a drive where the QB threw one 5 yard pass and an interception as "driving us down".
StanM wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:21 pm
I mentioned in another recent thread that I have been watching the Vikings since game one in 1961 when I was ten years old. My dad was a huge Gophers fan and a fan of Van Brocklin so he insisted that I follow our new team with him. I think with the Vikings and all teams getting to the big dance depends on all parts of the roster coming together at the same time, some good fortune avoiding injury and a few lucky bounces. Even the strongest Vikings teams as good as they were over the years couldn't catch a break from lady luck. It seems like either we have a great offense or a great defense or are strong at certain positions but the key to winning it all is for everything to come together at the right time.
Over the past decade it has always been something. Remember not too many years ago when we spent a few years dealing with question marks at wide receiver? Now it appears that the weaknesses are aging players on defense, a porous secondary and ongoing troubles at offensive line. We went all in on Cousins thinking he was the missing piece of the puzzle but now we're seeing players skills dropping off in other areas as they reach the end of their prime. It seems to me that efforts to fix things are like the game "whack a mole", whenever we try to hammer on one weakness another pops up somewhere else. On paper I have cheered most everything the Vikings have done over the past decade thinking that it sounded like a good roster move, draft choice or player coming to us through free agency.
So now the question at hand, can Kirk carry the team on his shoulders. I would say yes, if he gets on a hot streak and this team gels and plays a great game they are capable of winning and Cousins is capable of a game winning drive. Will it happen? Well, I'm posting on a Vikings message board so I want to say yes he will but there are so many factors and a lot of luck not to mention how loud it's going to be.
I think in my case at 68 years old and the Vikings obviously facing another rebuild with one hand tied behind their back by the Cousins contract I question whether my life long dream of seeing them win the Super Bowl will happen in my lifetime. So rather than bet on Cousins orchestrating a game winning drive the wagers should be placed on whether or not I will ever see them win the Super Bowl in my lifetime. We have come ever so close so many times and we've gone through some nightmare coaching staffs and lack of talent on the field but at the end of the day we haven't won the big one and I'm skeptical that I'll ever see that happen.
I can't thumbs up this one enough. Some of us are at the end of our rope when it comes to patience with this team.
