I need....some optimism

[S197]

Defensively, the only starter not returning is Richardson and he's being replaced by Shamar who obviously knows the defense well. There should be a great deal of continuity. The secondary also has good depth if they can make it past the first 4 games in good health.

The schedule is set up for a late season run. Not only due to all 3 December division games being at home but the team doesn't play outdoors after November 3rd. Okay they do but in San Diego so no cold games where they have traditionally struggled.

On paper the OL should be much improved. I think Kubiak can also help the run game to bring back some balance to the offense. All the skill position players are back and if a guy like Beebe can be a solid #3, they have a good core of starters.

It's also an odd year, the team has done well in years that end in odd numbers.

I think we’re going to see someone emerge other than Stephen. I think Holmes, Hercules and Watts are all sleepers. Watts might be a year or so away. But Holmes and Hercules are going to make some noise this year I think. Both of them are on the more athletic/quicker side than usual DTs you see. They might be considered “small” but small isn’t always a bad thing.

I think Spielman signing Stephen was a very good under the radar signing because he’s so good vs the run but that doesn’t always gain the recognition it should. Holmes and Hercules are going to be our pass rushing DTs I think. Watts is the same way. But we really needed a run stopper at 3 tech because we didn’t have one. That’s where Stephen fills in

I think Hercules would be a pass rushing specialist type role, similar to when they would put Robison in at DT on passing downs. Maybe he can be more, we'll see when the pads come on. Haven't seen much of Holmes outside of some small amount of playing time when games were out of reach. It would be great if one of them could compliment Linval.

[J. Kapp 11]

Kubiak definitely has the track record, especially in the run game. He seems like the type of coach that fits very well with what Zimmer wants. I really think this team is going to make some serious noise this year

You can count me in the "skeptical" camp on Kubiak, or more precisely, on the impact he's likely to have primarily for two reasons:

- Stefanski, not Kubiak, is the offensive coordinator.
- Kubiak, for all the success he's had, doesn't strike me as more accomplished than another older former HC Zimmer hired in Norv Turner. And Norv had the title of offensive coordinator.

Yes, Kevin Stefanski IS the offensive coordinator. But let's not kid ourselves. He wouldn't be the OC if Gary Kubiak had been available when they hired Stefanski. Kubiak's track record for building great rushing attacks plays right into what Zimmer wants in an offense.

And I completely disagree with you on the second point. He's far more accomplished than Norv. Turner was OC for Dallas when they had 3 Hall-of-Famers leading the offense. He leveraged those three to implement a vertical passing game and a power running game that did the job in the 90s but doesn't work well in the modern NFL. Yet he's never adapted. What's more, Norv has been a failure at every other endeavor since then. He had one of the most talented teams in the NFL during his time as head coach in San Diego, yet rarely won playoff games, let alone sniff the Super Bowl. Norv was terrible as OC in Cleveland, terrible as OC in Minnesota, and he's terrible in Carolina.

Kubiak, on the other hand, has been successful at every stop he's ever made. Steve Young had his best season and won his only SB with Kubiak as his QB coach. Kubiak was OC for two Super Bowl winning teams in Denver, and he led a Houston franchise from the dumpster to a 13-3 record. He was OC for the best offense Baltimore ever had, and he led Denver to a SB title as head coach. He's made stars out of low-round and undrafted running backs like Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Reuben Droughns, Arian Foster and Justin Forsett. He's worked over and over with middling-level quarterbacks whose only good years were when they worked with him. His WCO/zone-blocking/play-action scheme worked in the 90s, and it works today because he constantly adapts to the league and to his personnel. Norv, on the other hand, sees Cam Newton as Troy Aikman, Christian McCaffrey as Emmitt Smith, and Torrey Smith as Michael Irvin.

Gary Kubiak is here to teach Kevin Stefanski how to be an effective OC. If Stefanski succeeds, it will be because of Gary Kubiak.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think we’re going to see someone emerge other than Stephen. I think Holmes, Hercules and Watts are all sleepers. Watts might be a year or so away. But Holmes and Hercules are going to make some noise this year I think. Both of them are on the more athletic/quicker side than usual DTs you see. They might be considered “small” but small isn’t always a bad thing.

I think Spielman signing Stephen was a very good under the radar signing because he’s so good vs the run but that doesn’t always gain the recognition it should. Holmes and Hercules are going to be our pass rushing DTs I think. Watts is the same way. But we really needed a run stopper at 3 tech because we didn’t have one. That’s where Stephen fills in

Stephen is good on 1st and 2nd against the run, better than Richardson was. Where the Vikes need help is on 3rd down or obvious passing downs. Richardson and Johnson were very good at creating pressure up the middle, and the Vikes need someone to step up big to take their spots. Maybe moving Griff there like he did early in his career, or Weatherly possibly.

Right that’s exactly where I think Hercules, Watts or Holmes will come in. I can’t imagine all 3 suck and we have nobody that can do that. They have all been talked up recently

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think we’re going to see someone emerge other than Stephen. I think Holmes, Hercules and Watts are all sleepers. Watts might be a year or so away. But Holmes and Hercules are going to make some noise this year I think. Both of them are on the more athletic/quicker side than usual DTs you see. They might be considered “small” but small isn’t always a bad thing.

I think Spielman signing Stephen was a very good under the radar signing because he’s so good vs the run but that doesn’t always gain the recognition it should. Holmes and Hercules are going to be our pass rushing DTs I think. Watts is the same way. But we really needed a run stopper at 3 tech because we didn’t have one. That’s where Stephen fills in

I think Hercules would be a pass rushing specialist type role, similar to when they would put Robison in at DT on passing downs. Maybe he can be more, we'll see when the pads come on. Haven't seen much of Holmes outside of some small amount of playing time when games were out of reach. It would be great if one of them could compliment Linval.

Yeah Hercules and Holmes are both getting quite a bit of hype from what I’ve seen. I think Zim knows what he has there and that’s why he didn’t chase a 3 tech this offseason

[Bowhunting Viking]

I have alot of optimism for the upcoming season... but , I do apologize for taking a different turn... but I just got a dose of optimism and pride.
Although I saw it when it first aired, i watched the episode of A Football Life on Pat Tillman again.. for about the 5th or 6th time now.
That was a different then what the starter of the thread had in mind, but it's a story of an unselfish overacheiver who put his pride and the desire to serve his country ahead of the financial reward and the trappings of being an NFL player.
I remember the utter disgust I felt for Simeon Rice when he made the idiotic and heartless comments on the Jim Rome show about Tillman leaving the NFL to serve.
And to this day I wont listen to Colin Cowheard due to the BS he spewed after Tillman was killed. I remember my dad, an old Marine Corps veteran who saw plenty of action, wishing that he were able to send Rice and Cowheard out on patrol in Afghanistan or somewhere like that and see the difference between sitting behind a microphone talking nonsense and taking fire trying to survive.
Sorry to go off track , but Pat Tillman and others like him are the true heros in my mind.
Sometimes it's good to be reminded where true Heroism lies.
Again sorry I veered off there, just was inspired by Tillman's story yet again

[mike2mike]

1)Centers tend to make great offense. Bradberry and Stefanski implementing Kubiak’s system will transform this unit to be an explosive play offense again.
2)Mattison will help making running in short yardage more viable given the system than Murray would have. I’m not calling it an upgrade but Mattison is better in a Kubiak system then Murray would have been.
3)Elflein may be a better fit for guard.
4)ONeil, Elflein and Bradberry are all excellent fits for the system. Samia and Klein brought in with knowledge
5)I believe I heard that between our two guards last year we allowed more inside pressures then any two guys on OL in NFL history. Our passing volume was really high but even still if that improves to even halfway decent Cousins productivity per play and efficiency skyrockets.
6)Chad Bebe has extremely high motor function to be able to be aware of two defenders, position his feet, leap up, high point the ball, hip check the one guy, extend the arms away from the other, secure the ball as defender is attempting to strip the completion and run through the contact and accelerate out of it may have only been one play but it tells me everything I need to know about Bebe’s future in the NFL.
7)The fact that Kubiak’s guy from Denver Taylor is still in competition for Bebe tells me that was a very very great signing and having a mental let up on a good portion of the offense gives him some value and possible rotation as the #3WR if we find the roster spot for two guys like that. If not, it means good things for Oblasi Johnson and/or Dillon Mitchel.
8)Diggs is the age Thielen was when he just was starting his ascent into an NFL starting role. If Thielen’s progression was any indication, Imagine how much better he can still be.
9)The defense is still historically good at locking down 3rd downs and still really good on earlier downs as well. The massive advantage at secondary prevents anything outside and forces everything inside where Harrison Smith can enforce and Barr and Kendricks can enforce anything shallow.
10)Daniel Hunter is a freakish athlete who is getting better every year and his improvement at the inside move is going to make him like Dwight Freeny or better. Griffin’s mind is on football and so I think we will see some bounce back, Weatherly we are looking to extend and seem to think we can do it,so I won’t hype him up too much but not bad for a 7th rounder, eh? Kearse and Shamar Stephen also 7th rounders so Speilman’s stockpiling 7ths has worked out.
11)A lot of the young DL are going to have a chance to shine and that could make a big difference in our team as a whole.
12) The Kubiak/Shannihan coaching tree/system was what Cousins balled out in, Cook is an ideal One cut and go back, Diggs and Thielen are amazing.
13)George Kittle excelled last year in a Shannihan system (same as the Kubiak mostly) and Kubiak Shannihan TEs are under rated compared to Kubiak/Shannihan RBs. In Theory Rudolph should be able to do most of the stuff Kittle did although ideally they want Smith to be the guy who lines up at WR or in the slot. There are only so many targets to go around so don’t expect Kittle numbers from the TE tandem but similar impact per play is possible at the TE position between the two. See also:Shannan Sharpe, Jordan Reed, etc
14)Trae Waynes has gotten better every year, Linval Joseph and Rhodes will bounce back due to health being more in their favor and typical return to their career value average.Hughes looked amazing as a rookie so if/when he is 100% he will have a lot of value. macKenzie got better and was most improved player, Kearse found value/role as the big nickel and showed he can hang with the size of TEs and may have a role as hybrid LBer as well. Hilton Hill will return from suspension healthy. One of the guys may move to safety like Newman had to for a game against the Cardinals and that could upgrade safety opposite Smith while Kearse gets on the field more as well. This flexibility will allow us to do interesting stuff on defense
15)The defense will be ready to start the year out fast this time having a sense of urgency based on what happened last year and the offense isn’t going to pass 40 times a game to put them in bad spots early and that should get us to start fast and stay healthy or healthier.
16)There are a lot of draft picks I haven’t even mentioned and UDFAs and former practice squad guys that have a chance to contribute.
17)Teams like the Chiefs and Rams and Patriots and Saints will get all the attention and gameplanning against and they will overlook us and that will play to our advantage.

All the signs are looking good, I think this team has a really good shot to be dominant offensively and defensively and if so we have a chance to shock the league and go 12-4 or better and win a couple playoff games... maybe even win it all. We also have a young and hungry group of players that also have a lot of key veterans as well that should be together for a long time and if we draft well enough and continue to develop and find scheme fits, we can free up cap room and continue to improve.

[PacificNorseWest]

I like what I'm hearing...More, please...

[VikingLord]

Gary Kubiak is here to teach Kevin Stefanski how to be an effective OC. If Stefanski succeeds, it will be because of Gary Kubiak.

I hope you're right. I really do. Kubiak has a long record of success and knows how to do things the right way. If Stefanski is smart, he'll learn all he can.

But I don't know much about Stefanski, and he might be full of p1ss and vinegar and think he's the guy in charge.

And then Zimmer is still floating above it all, and one has to wonder if he could resist the temptation to insert himself into things if the offense struggles a bit.

I don't know... This situation has the potential to become an offensive coaching triangle and those, like romantic triangles, can get really messy.

I just hope whoever the alpha is establishes himself quickly and gets the offensive engine up to speed quickly so this is a non-issue.

[J. Kapp 11]

Gary Kubiak is here to teach Kevin Stefanski how to be an effective OC. If Stefanski succeeds, it will be because of Gary Kubiak.

I hope you're right. I really do. Kubiak has a long record of success and knows how to do things the right way. If Stefanski is smart, he'll learn all he can.

But I don't know much about Stefanski, and he might be full of p1ss and vinegar and think he's the guy in charge.

And then Zimmer is still floating above it all, and one has to wonder if he could resist the temptation to insert himself into things if the offense struggles a bit.

I don't know... This situation has the potential to become an offensive coaching triangle and those, like romantic triangles, can get really messy.

I just hope whoever the alpha is establishes himself quickly and gets the offensive engine up to speed quickly so this is a non-issue.

Here's where I'm optimistic.

Kubiak, of course, was the head man in Denver, where he won a Super Bowl. He had some health issues, which caused him to step down as the head coach. He then moved up to the front office as a personnel assistant to John Elway. After two years, he felt the itch to get back on the field and coach players, but he didn't want to risk his health by being a head coach. It was widely believed he would be the Broncos' OC, but Vic Fangio didn't want him (a curious decision, given that Kubiak did wonders for Joe Flacco in Baltimore, and the Broncos signed Flacco). That's when he decided to leave Denver, and the Vikings picked him up to help Stefanski.

All this to say ... Gary Kubiak, by what he says, is perfectly happy to assist Kevin Stefanski. He says he doesn't need to be the man in charge. He just missed being on the field working with players. He got tired of the personnel role and wanted to be hands-on. He can do that in Minnesota and not risk his health.

So my hope is that he stays in his lane, mentors Kevin Stefanski, and helps this team build a solid, reliable offense that can score at least 24 a game. He certainly has the track record for it.

However, your fears aren't unfounded. Mike Zimmer certainly doesn't seem to have a problem dumping OCs mid-season. If the offense struggles, it's not hard to imagine Zimmer jettisoning Stefanski and inserting his pal Kubiak.

[StumpHunter]

I hope you're right. I really do. Kubiak has a long record of success and knows how to do things the right way. If Stefanski is smart, he'll learn all he can.

But I don't know much about Stefanski, and he might be full of p1ss and vinegar and think he's the guy in charge.

And then Zimmer is still floating above it all, and one has to wonder if he could resist the temptation to insert himself into things if the offense struggles a bit.

I don't know... This situation has the potential to become an offensive coaching triangle and those, like romantic triangles, can get really messy.

I just hope whoever the alpha is establishes himself quickly and gets the offensive engine up to speed quickly so this is a non-issue.

Here's where I'm optimistic.

Kubiak, of course, was the head man in Denver, where he won a Super Bowl. He had some health issues, which caused him to step down as the head coach. He then moved up to the front office as a personnel assistant to John Elway. After two years, he felt the itch to get back on the field and coach players, but he didn't want to risk his health by being a head coach. It was widely believed he would be the Broncos' OC, but Vic Fangio didn't want him (a curious decision, given that Kubiak did wonders for Joe Flacco in Baltimore, and the Broncos signed Flacco). That's when he decided to leave Denver, and the Vikings picked him up to help Stefanski.

All this to say ... Gary Kubiak, by what he says, is perfectly happy to assist Kevin Stefanski. He says he doesn't need to be the man in charge. He just missed being on the field working with players. He got tired of the personnel role and wanted to be hands-on. He can do that in Minnesota and not risk his health.

So my hope is that he stays in his lane, mentors Kevin Stefanski, and helps this team build a solid, reliable offense that can score at least 24 a game. He certainly has the track record for it.

However, your fears aren't unfounded. Mike Zimmer certainly doesn't seem to have a problem dumping OCs mid-season. If the offense struggles, it's not hard to imagine Zimmer jettisoning Stefanski and inserting his pal Kubiak.

Fangio rejected Kubiak because Dennison was a part of the deal. You know, the guy who is coaching the worst unit on our football team this year? He is the reason Fangio went with his second choice at OC.

Sorry not positive, but it still irks me.

[mansquatch]

Kubiak definitely has the track record, especially in the run game. He seems like the type of coach that fits very well with what Zimmer wants. I really think this team is going to make some serious noise this year

You can count me in the "skeptical" camp on Kubiak, or more precisely, on the impact he's likely to have primarily for two reasons:

- Stefanski, not Kubiak, is the offensive coordinator.
- Kubiak, for all the success he's had, doesn't strike me as more accomplished than another older former HC Zimmer hired in Norv Turner. And Norv had the title of offensive coordinator.

On that last point, I think its important to note that Turner left mid-season over what amounted to a dispute between Zimmer and himself regarding the offensive philosophy of the team. At least, that's the best I could make out of that situation. Which underscores that this is Zimmer's team first and foremost. Not Kubiak's and certainly not Stefanski's. From everything I can tell, Zimmer has strong views on how the offensive should play and if he feels like it isn't playing the way he wants it to, he's more than willing to step in and make changes. You can imagine that this is not exactly the sort of situation that an established coach is going to thrive in. Turner certainly didn't, and something tells me Kubiak won't either, regardless of how strong the relationship might be between him and Zimmer.

Stefanski is really the ideal guy to be the offensive coordinator for this team under Zimmer. He's far more likely to do whatever Zimmer wants him to do, and far less likely to challenge Zimmer in the event things aren't going well and Zimmer feels he needs to step in.

Suffice it to say, I'm still not even sold on the extent of the role Kubiak is going to play with this team. It could be he's going to be the Wizard working behind the curtain, but equally likely he'll take on a token advisory role and be more of a soundboard for Stefanski to bounce gameplan ideas off.

And if he is more than than just a true advisor, I still think that situation becomes rip for accountability issues should things start to go poorly on offense as nobody wants to admit to owning the ugly baby.

Sparano operated in a very similar situation with Shurmer and they were quite successful in 2017. Zimmer has a good track record with this type of model at this point in his career. To a point, that I do not find this criticism credible. It would be more viable if they had no history, but they do have history and it is positive.

[Dames]

Fangio rejected Kubiak because Dennison was a part of the deal. You know, the guy who is coaching the worst unit on our football team this year? He is the reason Fangio went with his second choice at OC.

Sorry not positive, but it still irks me.

That's the rumor I heard also. Doesn't make me feel great either, but maybe Fangio just has a personality conflict with Dennison. I guess I haven't heard many Broncos fans saying good things about him though. Here's hoping things work out for us!

[mansquatch]

Fangio rejected Kubiak because Dennison was a part of the deal. You know, the guy who is coaching the worst unit on our football team this year? He is the reason Fangio went with his second choice at OC.

Sorry not positive, but it still irks me.

That's the rumor I heard also. Doesn't make me feel great either, but maybe Fangio just has a personality conflict with Dennison. I guess I haven't heard many Broncos fans saying good things about him though. Here's hoping things work out for us!

This took about 45 seconds to find:
https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-bronco ... 129361778/

According to the piece, Kubiak was adamant about bringing some of his guys in on the offensive staff. Fangio balked at the idea, wanting control over who was hired. This caused Kubiak to leave Denver. Those same assistants followed him to MN where they are now on the staff. That isn't exactly a reason that screams "overrated" or "cant' coach offense". If this makes you uncomfortable you are entitled to your discomfort, but i think it hardly lends itself to any conclusion outside of Kubiak showing that he is willing to go to the mat for his people. Fangio's decision on the matter could just as likely be a new HC wanting control over his destiny as it could be anything negative about Gary Kubiak.

If this is the only evidence, I'm inclined to sleep easy on Kubiak's long track record in the league.

[VikingLord]

Sparano operated in a very similar situation with Shurmer and they were quite successful in 2017. Zimmer has a good track record with this type of model at this point in his career. To a point, that I do not find this criticism credible. It would be more viable if they had no history, but they do have history and it is positive.

Even if I accept that the Sparano-Shurmer situation is comparable to the Stefanski-Kubiak situation as you claim, what happens if the outcome is poor? It's easy to point at the one example and say it worked out, but the offense performed well in that situation. It might have been because of that arrangement. It might have been in spite of that arrangement. However, that was a different year with different people, so there isn't much to base the claim on.

We all hope this goes well and the offense performs up to expectations, but if it doesn't, who takes the blame between Kubiak and Stefanski and further, at what point does Zimmer find it necessary to get more involved?

I don't think anyone on this board can answer that question with any certainty. The only way we find out the answer will be if the offense struggles, especially early. With any luck, 2019 will be a repeat of 2017 and we won't have to find out.

[J. Kapp 11]

Here's where I'm optimistic.

Kubiak, of course, was the head man in Denver, where he won a Super Bowl. He had some health issues, which caused him to step down as the head coach. He then moved up to the front office as a personnel assistant to John Elway. After two years, he felt the itch to get back on the field and coach players, but he didn't want to risk his health by being a head coach. It was widely believed he would be the Broncos' OC, but Vic Fangio didn't want him (a curious decision, given that Kubiak did wonders for Joe Flacco in Baltimore, and the Broncos signed Flacco). That's when he decided to leave Denver, and the Vikings picked him up to help Stefanski.

All this to say ... Gary Kubiak, by what he says, is perfectly happy to assist Kevin Stefanski. He says he doesn't need to be the man in charge. He just missed being on the field working with players. He got tired of the personnel role and wanted to be hands-on. He can do that in Minnesota and not risk his health.

So my hope is that he stays in his lane, mentors Kevin Stefanski, and helps this team build a solid, reliable offense that can score at least 24 a game. He certainly has the track record for it.

However, your fears aren't unfounded. Mike Zimmer certainly doesn't seem to have a problem dumping OCs mid-season. If the offense struggles, it's not hard to imagine Zimmer jettisoning Stefanski and inserting his pal Kubiak.

Fangio rejected Kubiak because Dennison was a part of the deal. You know, the guy who is coaching the worst unit on our football team this year? He is the reason Fangio went with his second choice at OC.

Sorry not positive, but it still irks me.

Dennison was the offensive line coach for the Super Bowl winning Broncos, so it's not like he's unqualified.

Sorry, but if a head coach won't allow his OC to hire the guys he wants to work with as his position coaches, then the head coach is the one with the problem. Screw the rumors. My take ... it's insecurity. Fangio didn't want to look over his shoulder at a former Super Bowl winning head coach on his staff.