The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:38 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:59 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:38 am


Agreed 100%. That's something we definitely have to consider. And yes, I've been right with you regarding coaching decisions. Not only were they the biggest key this offseason but also last offseason. You could see how much our offensive dipped with an OC that didnt know how to balance an offense and the passing of Sparano.



Also agree. As for their division, let's not forget, the Bills had arguably one of the best defenses in the NFL last year. It's just their offense was pitiful per usual. But it doesnt matter who the Pats are playing, they still have 3rd round picks or worse blocking at a high level. Another reason its not a MUST to draft an OL in the first round. If they are the BPA, then yeah. But if you have to reach for one when there are better players on the board at other positions, that's bad drafting.
Both of you guys are arguing a premise that's wrong

1. Pats are an exception to the rule. If you try to do what they do, you will fail. Its not a system that is replicable
2. Pats drafted a tackle in the 1st round. Isiah Wynn was a 1st rounder. They like all teams realize the importance of drafting OL high because the number of quality guys drops off rather quickly.

Wynn got hurt but their plan was never to go into the season with all 3rd rounders like you guys are preaching. With Brady giving those guys hope that they can win, paired with Bills knowledge and prep, its a powerful combo that no other team has to prop up bums.
That is not true. The pats aren’t the only team that does this. The rams arguably had the best offensive line in the nfl this year and had 3 second round picks, a 6th round pick and a 7th round pick starting. There are other top offensive lines all over the league that have no more than 1 first round pick on it. We have a 1st round pick, a 2nd, a 3rd, an undrafted free agent and then a mystery. And that mystery will be at the latest, a 2nd is my guess. If we were to add a 2nd round guard, there’s no reason this OL couldn’t be average to above average this year and continue to improve within the next year or two. Point is, you don’t need a bunch of first rounders to fix this OL. We can get away with another 2nd-3rd easily given the depth in those rounds at guard
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by halfgiz » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:12 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:38 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:59 am


Both of you guys are arguing a premise that's wrong

1. Pats are an exception to the rule. If you try to do what they do, you will fail. Its not a system that is replicable
2. Pats drafted a tackle in the 1st round. Isiah Wynn was a 1st rounder. They like all teams realize the importance of drafting OL high because the number of quality guys drops off rather quickly.

Wynn got hurt but their plan was never to go into the season with all 3rd rounders like you guys are preaching. With Brady giving those guys hope that they can win, paired with Bills knowledge and prep, its a powerful combo that no other team has to prop up bums.
That is not true. The pats aren’t the only team that does this. The rams arguably had the best offensive line in the nfl this year and had 3 second round picks, a 6th round pick and a 7th round pick starting. There are other top offensive lines all over the league that have no more than 1 first round pick on it. We have a 1st round pick, a 2nd, a 3rd, an undrafted free agent and then a mystery. And that mystery will be at the latest, a 2nd is my guess. If we were to add a 2nd round guard, there’s no reason this OL couldn’t be average to above average this year and continue to improve within the next year or two. Point is, you don’t need a bunch of first rounders to fix this OL. We can get away with another 2nd-3rd easily given the depth in those rounds at guard
Nor does the Defense need a bunch of first rounders to make it better.
The offensive line is by far the weak link of the team.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:50 am

halfgiz wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:12 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:38 am


That is not true. The pats aren’t the only team that does this. The rams arguably had the best offensive line in the nfl this year and had 3 second round picks, a 6th round pick and a 7th round pick starting. There are other top offensive lines all over the league that have no more than 1 first round pick on it. We have a 1st round pick, a 2nd, a 3rd, an undrafted free agent and then a mystery. And that mystery will be at the latest, a 2nd is my guess. If we were to add a 2nd round guard, there’s no reason this OL couldn’t be average to above average this year and continue to improve within the next year or two. Point is, you don’t need a bunch of first rounders to fix this OL. We can get away with another 2nd-3rd easily given the depth in those rounds at guard
Nor does the Defense need a bunch of first rounders to make it better.
The offensive line is by far the weak link of the team.
You’re missing the point. It’s about the best player available. Not which side of the ball gets the first round pick. If there is a 1st round talent DT sitting there that’s a plug and play at 3 tech and a couple early 2nd round round offensive lineman, you don’t take an offensive lineman just because you need one. You take the DT.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by CharVike » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:07 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:38 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:59 am


Both of you guys are arguing a premise that's wrong

1. Pats are an exception to the rule. If you try to do what they do, you will fail. Its not a system that is replicable
2. Pats drafted a tackle in the 1st round. Isiah Wynn was a 1st rounder. They like all teams realize the importance of drafting OL high because the number of quality guys drops off rather quickly.

Wynn got hurt but their plan was never to go into the season with all 3rd rounders like you guys are preaching. With Brady giving those guys hope that they can win, paired with Bills knowledge and prep, its a powerful combo that no other team has to prop up bums.
That is not true. The pats aren’t the only team that does this. The rams arguably had the best offensive line in the nfl this year and had 3 second round picks, a 6th round pick and a 7th round pick starting. There are other top offensive lines all over the league that have no more than 1 first round pick on it. We have a 1st round pick, a 2nd, a 3rd, an undrafted free agent and then a mystery. And that mystery will be at the latest, a 2nd is my guess. If we were to add a 2nd round guard, there’s no reason this OL couldn’t be average to above average this year and continue to improve within the next year or two. Point is, you don’t need a bunch of first rounders to fix this OL. We can get away with another 2nd-3rd easily given the depth in those rounds at guard
The Pats OL blows although PFF and others will state they are the best. Yes they pushed the Jets all over the field twice and our crappy OL did the same thing once. I thought our OL looked like the old hogs from the Skins during that game. Based on that game I don't see a huge need. The Rams have the best OL and couldn't move the Pats DL in the SB. They were overwhelmed. They should have just pushed that D right down the field. IMO they need to rebuild that line across the board. But it's rated as the best. I don't get it.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by halfgiz » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:51 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:50 am
halfgiz wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:12 am

Nor does the Defense need a bunch of first rounders to make it better.
The offensive line is by far the weak link of the team.
You’re missing the point. It’s about the best player available. Not which side of the ball gets the first round pick. If there is a 1st round talent DT sitting there that’s a plug and play at 3 tech and a couple early 2nd round round offensive lineman, you don’t take an offensive lineman just because you need one. You take the DT.
What the heck kind of statement is that?
This year we need a decent Offensive Linemen
Mike Garafolo and Ian Rapaport are stating that "OL will go much earlier than expected" Rick cant take a chance and hope a starting
OL will be there in the 2nd round. If the offensive linemen we want is there we should pick him.
Rick got very Lucky with O'Neil you cant expect that 2 years in a row.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:11 am

CharVike wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:07 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:38 am


That is not true. The pats aren’t the only team that does this. The rams arguably had the best offensive line in the nfl this year and had 3 second round picks, a 6th round pick and a 7th round pick starting. There are other top offensive lines all over the league that have no more than 1 first round pick on it. We have a 1st round pick, a 2nd, a 3rd, an undrafted free agent and then a mystery. And that mystery will be at the latest, a 2nd is my guess. If we were to add a 2nd round guard, there’s no reason this OL couldn’t be average to above average this year and continue to improve within the next year or two. Point is, you don’t need a bunch of first rounders to fix this OL. We can get away with another 2nd-3rd easily given the depth in those rounds at guard
The Pats OL blows although PFF and others will state they are the best. Yes they pushed the Jets all over the field twice and our crappy OL did the same thing once. I thought our OL looked like the old hogs from the Skins during that game. Based on that game I don't see a huge need. The Rams have the best OL and couldn't move the Pats DL in the SB. They were overwhelmed. They should have just pushed that D right down the field. IMO they need to rebuild that line across the board. But it's rated as the best. I don't get it.
The patriots OL doesn’t not blow. Nor does the rams. Not sure why the jets game has anything to do with anything. It’s more about coaching and scheme than talent IMO, but at the same time both offensive lines have talent. Whitworth, Saffold, Blythe and Havenstein were all top 10 at their position. If anything, the weak link was Sullivan. But that was a very good OL still. I mean look at Indy. They add Quinton Nelson and they are a top OL in the nfl. Nelson is an excellent player but one player doesn’t turn a terrible OL into an elite one. DeGuglielmo was the brains behind that operation. Yet he gets fired because he was mcdaniels guy, not Reichs. Bottom line is, we need to invest more into this OL but at the same time, stefanski, Kubiak and Dennison need to put them in a position to succeed
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:55 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:12 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:07 am


You seem fixated with the first round moniker. I think its clear that people want an OL drafted in the 1st round w/ first round talent. They aren't arguing to take one if all the top guys are gone. People want the OL fixed and 1st round talent (usually found in the first round) is what is needed. Waiting until the 2nd round may work out but it comes with a much lower chance of success. Not saying there isn't talent to be found outside the first but the chances of finding an impact guy goes down.
I don’t think the drop off is nearly as large as you think. Yeah we all want the OL fixed but it doesn’t need to be fixed in the first round. Many teams (not just the patriots) have proved that over the year. Bottom line is, they need to perform. But mark my words, some will lose their minds on here if we don’t pick an offensive lineman round 1.
I think the dropoff from Tackles is large. The interior is muddled.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:05 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:55 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:12 am


I don’t think the drop off is nearly as large as you think. Yeah we all want the OL fixed but it doesn’t need to be fixed in the first round. Many teams (not just the patriots) have proved that over the year. Bottom line is, they need to perform. But mark my words, some will lose their minds on here if we don’t pick an offensive lineman round 1.
I think the dropoff from Tackles is large. The interior is muddled.
Yes tackles there is definitely a drop off but there are a lot of them. Guys like McGary, McGovern, little, etc could very well be sitting there in the 2nd. The 2nd-4th rounds are going to be loaded with guards
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by halfgiz » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:21 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:05 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:55 am


I think the dropoff from Tackles is large. The interior is muddled.
Yes tackles there is definitely a drop off but there are a lot of them. Guys like McGary, McGovern, little, etc could very well be sitting there in the 2nd. The 2nd-4th rounds are going to be loaded with guards
And that is your opinion.
What exactly does the defense need that requires a first round pick?
The offensive needs a starting guard. Tier 2-3 lineman isn't going to cut it.
Last edited by halfgiz on Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:56 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:05 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:55 am


I think the dropoff from Tackles is large. The interior is muddled.
Yes tackles there is definitely a drop off but there are a lot of them. Guys like McGary, McGovern, little, etc could very well be sitting there in the 2nd. The 2nd-4th rounds are going to be loaded with guards
I think there will be a lot of guys but not necessarily guys that can turn this oline around. I think it's funny we claim our oline is so bad becaue of lack of talent in college and all of a sudden this year, the pot is flowing over. There is talent every year. We've just failed to cultivate.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by halfgiz » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:44 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:05 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:55 am


I think the dropoff from Tackles is large. The interior is muddled.
Yes tackles there is definitely a drop off but there are a lot of them. Guys like McGary, McGovern, little, etc could very well be sitting there in the 2nd. The 2nd-4th rounds are going to be loaded with guards
Matt Miller of Bleacher Report (three rounds)

The predicted first-round pick: Andre Dillard, T, Washington State
The predicted second-round pick (No. 50): Jerry Tillery, DT, Notre Dame
The predicted third-round pick (No. 81): Connor McGovern, C/G, Penn State
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:24 pm

The closer we get to draft day, the more im sure Rick is going to trade the 18th (maybe even the 50th) to get more picks. I think we stand a good chance to get 2 real quality Olinemen with this method. I would be happy too with using the 18th and 50th on the Oline as well, if we didnt trade down. But by trading down, we might actually get 3 decent picks in the first 2 days. I think most people want 2 oline, and the best DT we can get. I doubt we go edge, or we wouldnt have resigned griff. Depends on how people look at BOA. Hughes was NOT BPA last season. But Rick let Zimmer have first pick. With Griffen and Barr re-signing, Rick/Kubiak (notice how no one is say Stef when talking about the draft?) may get the first 3 picks of the draft. At least thats what I am hoping. Too bad Hill had to be an idiot, or I dont think we would even look at a DB this year till the 7th.

I think the Vikes will look at this draft as hitting the needs we have right away. They have seen what happens when we get trash and hope they can be starters. I would rather get trash on the D, and see what Zimmer can do with them. But I am done with the idiot druggies, no matter how good they might be.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:24 am

halfgiz wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:21 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:05 pm


Yes tackles there is definitely a drop off but there are a lot of them. Guys like McGary, McGovern, little, etc could very well be sitting there in the 2nd. The 2nd-4th rounds are going to be loaded with guards
And that is your opinion.
What exactly does the defense need that requires a first round pick?
The offensive needs a starting guard. Tier 2-3 lineman isn't going to cut it.
So drafting Chris Lindstrom in the 1st round is what we need to do but drafting Michael Jordan in the 2nd and taking a DT in the first doesn’t cut it? You’re missing the point, there isn’t a tier 1 guard in this draft. Quinton Nelson is a tier 1 guard. He went 6th overall. His caliber is not in this draft. You as well as others keep trying to push that point of not being able to pass on a “tier 1” guard. There isn’t one!!! Hence why you don’t see a guard in any mock going in the top 15. So yeah no matter what guard you pick, guess what? He’s a tier 2-3 guard. So they’re gonna have to cut it. And they will cut it. You don’t need to take a guard in the first in order to find a good one. There will be plenty of good guards in rounds 2-3. That’s not just my opinion. That’s just about every analyst and fan out there
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by CharVike » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:41 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:11 am
CharVike wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:07 am

The Pats OL blows although PFF and others will state they are the best. Yes they pushed the Jets all over the field twice and our crappy OL did the same thing once. I thought our OL looked like the old hogs from the Skins during that game. Based on that game I don't see a huge need. The Rams have the best OL and couldn't move the Pats DL in the SB. They were overwhelmed. They should have just pushed that D right down the field. IMO they need to rebuild that line across the board. But it's rated as the best. I don't get it.
The patriots OL doesn’t not blow. Nor does the rams. Not sure why the jets game has anything to do with anything. It’s more about coaching and scheme than talent IMO, but at the same time both offensive lines have talent. Whitworth, Saffold, Blythe and Havenstein were all top 10 at their position. If anything, the weak link was Sullivan. But that was a very good OL still. I mean look at Indy. They add Quinton Nelson and they are a top OL in the nfl. Nelson is an excellent player but one player doesn’t turn a terrible OL into an elite one. DeGuglielmo was the brains behind that operation. Yet he gets fired because he was mcdaniels guy, not Reichs. Bottom line is, we need to invest more into this OL but at the same time, stefanski, Kubiak and Dennison need to put them in a position to succeed
The Jets game were like opponents. Our OL dominated that team. The Pats dominated them twice. I just pointed that out. I can go off the cliff at times.
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Re: The Real Chance that the Vikings Don't Address Offensive Line Early

Post by CharVike » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:55 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:24 pm
The closer we get to draft day, the more im sure Rick is going to trade the 18th (maybe even the 50th) to get more picks. I think we stand a good chance to get 2 real quality Olinemen with this method. I would be happy too with using the 18th and 50th on the Oline as well, if we didnt trade down. But by trading down, we might actually get 3 decent picks in the first 2 days. I think most people want 2 oline, and the best DT we can get. I doubt we go edge, or we wouldnt have resigned griff. Depends on how people look at BOA. Hughes was NOT BPA last season. But Rick let Zimmer have first pick. With Griffen and Barr re-signing, Rick/Kubiak (notice how no one is say Stef when talking about the draft?) may get the first 3 picks of the draft. At least thats what I am hoping. Too bad Hill had to be an idiot, or I dont think we would even look at a DB this year till the 7th.

I think the Vikes will look at this draft as hitting the needs we have right away. They have seen what happens when we get trash and hope they can be starters. I would rather get trash on the D, and see what Zimmer can do with them. But I am done with the idiot druggies, no matter how good they might be.
Hill being an idiot is funny. Yes I assume he's done. You can't count on that guy. So that's a hole that needs a plug. Adding an edge rusher would be ok. We need depth and can Griff be counted on? With that we better have a player ready. I don't think a 1st round OL talent will be there at our pick. Ford will be there and is a good player. But his block feet and girth don't fit the scheme so I don't see him even being on our board. It will be a smaller player that can move for the OL and that can be had later. Will be fun to watch.
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